The Silmarillion Series by Jenny Dolfen

The artistic interpretation of Tolkien's imagination can be breathtaking. Or it can be appalling... Join in on the discussion of the artistic representations and collectible items in the Tolkien universe.

Postby JennyDolfen » Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:36 am

Yes, sure!<BR><BR>A digital scribble to design the layout of "Healing the Feud":<BR><a href='http://www.goldseven.de/wp_nogrievance_scr.jpg' target=_blank>http://www.goldseven.de/wp_nogrievance_scr.jpg</a><BR>Finished: <a href='http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/view.pl?id=57416' target=_blank>http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/view.pl?id=57416</a> <BR><BR>First scribble for "The Coming of Fingolfin". Note Galadriel isn#t on there yet. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><a href='http://www.goldseven.de/wp_Fingolfin_scr.jpg' target=_blank>http://www.goldseven.de/wp_Fingolfin_scr.jpg</a><BR>finished: <a href='http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/view.pl?id=55415' target=_blank>http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/view.pl?id=55415</a><BR><BR>Scribble for "The Ruin of the House of Feanor"<BR><a href='http://www.goldseven.de/wp_ithilwen.jpg' target=_blank>http://www.goldseven.de/wp_ithilwen.jpg</a><BR>finished: <a href='http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/view.pl?id=55849' target=_blank>http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/view.pl?id=55849</a><BR><BR><BR>Non-Tolkien:<BR><BR>A scribble for a commission pic. I really liked this one, but it was rejected because the client wanted his character from the front.<BR><a href='http://www.goldseven.de/c_dennis_scr1.jpg' target=_blank>http://www.goldseven.de/c_dennis_scr1.jpg</a><BR><BR>Concept sketch for an RPG character of a friend which never came into being, but I was able to "recyle" it for a character design for one of the RPG companies I'm working with. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><a href='http://www.goldseven.de/wp_dana2.jpg' target=_blank>http://www.goldseven.de/wp_dana2.jpg</a><BR><BR><BR>
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Postby Giliath » Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:39 am

Thanks for putting those up Jenny. Those are some lovely scribbles. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Just curious, how often do you use a computer to draw your preliminary sketches?
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Postby JennyDolfen » Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:53 am

More and more often lately, especially for more complex scenes where I have to search for what exactly I'm going for. It's so easy to make changes and start over on the computer. I hate erasing, so when I know I'll have to do a lot of reworking, I do it on the comp from the start. That also makes it easier to test light and dark areas, lighting effects, contrast, and the overall impression of the pic as a thumbnail.
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Postby Giliath » Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:07 pm

That sounds pretty logical. I suppose it's a good skill to have when you don't have the time to keep sketching until you find the right composition.
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Postby JennyDolfen » Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:33 am

I do keep sketching until I find the right composition--I just don't do it on paper. <BR><BR>Do I detect a slight bias against "cheating in digital artwork" here? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Giliath » Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:40 am

No! I just wish someone had taught me how to do it a long time ago! I waste a lot of papper. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>
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Postby JennyDolfen » Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:08 am

I wouldn't call it a waste as long as you keep them! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>It's just a peculiarity of mine that I hate eraser dust. I rarely clear up my desk, and i usually have several months' eraser dust on it. <BR><BR>I also have a graphic tablet so i can sketch with a stylus and not with a mouse--i can't draw with a mouse at all. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby red_xavier » Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:25 pm

Another celebrity!<BR><BR>*gushing mode*<BR><BR>I really like your art Jenny, particularly your pieces from A Song of Ice and Fire <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Always great to see another GRR Martin fan. Do you have plans to do any more, or perhaps to venture into LOTR stuff?
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Postby JennyDolfen » Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:43 am

Thanks, Red!<BR><BR>When "A Feast for Crows" comes out, I guess I'll feel inspired to do more GRRm art. I haven't any LotR works planned--the Silmarillion just inspires me so much more, and after the movies, which I loved, i hardly feel the need to top them. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I've got a new pic: "Humiliation" (a. k. a. "Why Maedhros has short hair"<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>. I might actually go and draw him with long hair preceding his captivity from now on. <BR>http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/view.pl?id=58100<BR><BR>And here's a few sketches i plan to use as a border in the redesin of my homepage. It's Maedhros, Maglor, and Fingon.<BR>http://goldseven.de/wp_border.jpg
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Postby NienorNiniel » Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:58 am

Links that work: <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR><a href='http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/view.pl?id=58100' target=_blank>http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/view.pl?id=58100</a><BR><BR><a href='http://goldseven.de/wp_border.jpg' target=_blank>http://goldseven.de/wp_border.jpg</a><BR><BR>"Humiliation" is really good. Cutting off someone's hair to humiliate them is a good old metode, so I can see the orcs doing this to Meadhros. Speaking of orcs; this is the first time I've seen you paint them, and I like what I see. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> Meadhros looks good with long hair<BR><BR>The scetch is also really good. Maglor looks so sad. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif"border=0><BR><BR><em>I haven't any LotR works planned--the Silmarillion just inspires me so much more, and after the movies, which I loved, i hardly feel the need to top them</em><BR><BR>I can see why the Sil inspires you more than LotR (just ask Ornie, and he'll talk your ears out <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> ), but I would still really love to see some LotR art from you. Any good painting tops the movies in my opinion, because - well - they're movies. This is art. The only problem you should have with LotR, is that you can't paint any of the Sons of Fëanor. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0>
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Postby JennyDolfen » Sat Feb 28, 2004 4:16 am

Sorry, I consider myself quite internet-adept, but I can't get anything to work on this board! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Hmmm... I haven't drawn *my* Legolas in, what, twelve years? i guess I might... Although I'm not really sure what he looks like. I never was. I did four different versions of him over the years, and haven't got a clear image on the character. I might try one of Aragorn though...<BR><BR>And funny--Maglor always looks sad for me. Well, except for you sig piccie. there he looks positively demented. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby NienorNiniel » Sat Feb 28, 2004 4:29 am

Just use [ URL ]link [ /URL ], just without the spaces. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>A Legolas or Aragorn from your hans would've been very interesting. I long to see a non-movie Legolas... *scowls at Fandom*<BR>What about hobbits? I'm very curious to see how they would look. You always paint elves (not a bad thing - love your elves!).<BR><BR><em>Well, except for you sig piccie. there he looks positively demented. </em><BR><BR>Oh, come on! That's a smile (I think...)! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby rowanberry » Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:21 am

"Humiliation" is really good! Your portrayal of the orcs is probably the best I've seen - they're really <em>ugly</em> and cruel-looking. I could well imagine what Maedhros was through - but, he hasn't given in, and won't...<BR><BR>I like the sketches as well. IMO, it's quite fitting for the character that Maglor looks a bit sad. I've always thought that, he was the least aggressive of the brothers, and always felt a bit out of place - he was a musician, not a warlord.
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Postby Elmtree » Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:18 am

I like "Humiliation". Interesting.<BR><BR>As far as Legolas... how about one that's as "antiwhatsbeendonealready" as you can reasonably do?<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Black hair, definately;-) (you oughta see all the threads on legolas' and elf hair on the "books" forum).
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Postby JennyDolfen » Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:24 am

My Legolases are all Antiwhatsbeendonealready--they all have short hair, even though I do tend towards blond! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby Ornendil » Sat Feb 28, 2004 8:27 am

Humiliation: What a wonderful work. Poor Maedhros. I must admit, I laughed a bit at the Orc with the horned teeth<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Wonderful.<BR><BR><BR><em>Any good painting tops the movies in my opinion, because - well - they're movies. This is art.</em><BR><BR>Thanks to people like Andrew Lesnie and Grant Major the movies are also art. It's all about the composition of the images in the movies as well as in paintings.<BR><BR>Take this screencap from the third movie for instance: <a href='http://www.quintessentialwebsites.com/lordoftherings/rotk_latestimages/gandalf_mtstreet.jpg' target=_blank>Gandalf in Minas Tirith</a><BR><BR>Notice that while the background is very light there has been placed a door there (at the excact position of Gandalf's head) to highlight Gandalf's face thus not having the environment overshadow the wizard. Note the cross formed by Gandalf's staff and sword and the wonderful forms in Gandalf's clothing. Look also at the wonderful composition of light and dark in this picture(utter white in the topmost left whereas the downmost right is dark and the wizard in the middle as a mixture of these two). The light forms around Gandalf's head like a halo emphasizing the glory of the wizard (even more emphasized by the bells tolling in the background) who is, when you think of it, only an actor sitting on a stool.
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Postby NienorNiniel » Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:13 am

Calm down, Ornie. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I'm talking people here. The faces of the characters in the movie already belong to someone else - the actors. Nobody have to paint the faces of the actors. The background, the clothing; they can be art. But not the people. And, as ElvenArcher has been talking about for a while now, Jenny is one of the "character-artists", so I would very much like to see her LotR characters.
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Postby Ornendil » Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:26 am

Peter King among others painted the faces in the movie. You can't possibly say that Gandalf looks like Ian McKellen?<BR><BR>I'm enjoying Jenny's work here and you have to come and try to pursuade her to paint stuff I don't like <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif"border=0><BR><BR><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Ornendil (don't like = like to a lesser degree)
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Postby NienorNiniel » Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:32 am

<em>You can't possibly say that Gandalf looks like Ian McKellen?</em><BR><BR>I can say that. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> He's one of the better, though, because he has a beard. But *glances around at the poor other people here* I don't think this is the place to take this discussion, and we won't ever agree anyway. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR><em>I'm enjoying Jenny's work here and you have to come and try to pursuade her to paint stuff I don't like!</em><BR><BR>Mission complete. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby Ornendil » Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:43 am

Ok. We'll take that discussion elsewhere some other time.
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Postby NienorNiniel » Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:52 am

<em>Ok. We'll take that discussion elsewhere some other time. </em><BR><BR><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Ok... I'm not sure what Jenny will say, but I found some old stuff of hers:<BR><BR><a href='http://www.goldseven.de/content_old_outofdoubt.jpg' target=_blank>Out of doubt... (1994)</a><BR><a href='http://www.goldseven.de/content_old_celegormmaglor.jpg' target=_blank>Celegorm and Maglor (1995)</a><BR><a href='http://www.goldseven.de/content_old_comicbragollach.jpg' target=_blank>Comic page (1995)</a><BR><BR>I liked the comic page! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby Giliath » Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:55 am

Ahhh so there's a reason for the short hair eh? I must say I find that rather wonderful. You building on your own imagings. Very well done and I must agree that the Orcs are some of the best I've seen. <BR><BR>As for the films as art I sense an old argument. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I happen to think that films (or at least these films) are quite a bit like "moving paintings" in quite a number of places in their development. Ornendil gave probably one of the best examples, but there are shots that are wonderfully sublime and as complete a composition as a lot of paintings. Alright I'll leave it at that, but I could go on too. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I'd love to see some LOTR stuff Jenny, but go with what inspires you.
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Postby JennyDolfen » Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:13 am

The reason is only a trumped-up reason, really, to satisfy all those whom the movies convinced all Elves have long hair and who now demanded to know why Maedhros didn't. But as you can see from Nienor's finds, my Maedhros has always had short hair, as did most of the other characters in my imagination, as well. <BR><BR>I'm curious--is it said anywhere in Tolkien's works (Sil or LotR, not HoMe) that Elves have long hair? The thought really never occurred to me. And I think the ending -os in Maedhros sounded so masculinely Greek to me I had to draw him with short hair, "classical", as most Greeks as well.<BR><BR>I totally agree to the movie discussion. The films were visually the best I've ever consciously seen, probably. Extrmely well filmed and planned. <BR><BR>Oh, and Nienor--since you are digging up the dirty stuff, might just as well go all the way. <a href='http://www.goldseven.de/content_old_lotr.jpg' target=_blank>Click me!</a> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby Ornendil » Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:26 am

It is said somewhere, but I can't remember where. I'll try to see if I can come up with a quote. And often when there's mentioning of Elven hair in the books there's "long flowing locks" and similar descriptions. Also of note is there that the people in the cultures Tolkien was influenced by tend to have long hair.<BR><BR>EDIT: Why not HoME? There's lots in them that's still valid.<BR><BR>(Deja-Vu, I think I just wrote the excact same that I wrote in one of my very first posts here)<BR><BR>That old picture... I best leave all comments to myself <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Is that Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli surrounded by Rohirrim?
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Postby NienorNiniel » Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:57 am

Agree with what Ornie says here, but I do not mind short-haired elves at all. It's just to get used to it. I'm quite sure Tolkien never wrote: "Not a single elf has ever had short hair." <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR><em>Is that Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli surrounded by Rohirrim? </em><BR><BR>Looks like it to me. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> I'm not going to comment on it, I just want to point out that Gimli's helmet (?) is as long as his legs... <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0>
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Postby Giliath » Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:05 pm

<em>The reason is only a trumped-up reason, really, to satisfy all those whom the movies convinced all Elves have long hair and who now demanded to know why Maedhros didn't. But as you can see from Nienor's finds, my Maedhros has always had short hair, as did most of the other characters in my imagination, as well. </em><BR>I still find it cool (for lack of a better term) that you've built on something you've already illustrated whatever the reason may be.<BR><BR>I honestly can't think of a qoute off the top of my head myself and I have seen at least one other illustration with a short haired elf: <a href='http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/images/eiszmann/eiszmann43.jpg' target=_blank> Anke's Beleg</a>
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Postby JennyDolfen » Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:17 pm

Yes, it's Legolas, Aragorn (fresh from the hairdressers with blonde-dyed hair) surrounded by an army of hobbit-sized Rohirrim, of whom only the leader can afford a horse! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I drew that when I was eight. My very forst Tolkien picture. <BR><BR>Beleg was always short-haired for me as well, by the way.
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Postby Ornendil » Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:28 pm

Ok. I couldn't find a direct quote (I know one exists), but here are some quotes that imply long hair and some that describe individual Elves with long hair. All quotes are from FotR.<BR><BR><em>"They passed slowly, and the hobbits could see the starlight glimmering on their hair and in their eyes."</em> - First sight of Elves<BR><BR><em>"Firelight played upon them and shimmered in their hair."</em> - about the Elves of Rivendell<BR><BR><em>"his hair glinted like gold in the morning sun."</em> - Of Haldir<BR><BR>Light wouldn't be reflected in short hair. At least not enough to be worth mentioning as such a dominant feature.<BR><BR><em>"his golden hair flowed shimmering in the wind of his speed."</em> - Meeting with Glorfindel.<BR><BR><em>"The wind was in his flowing hair"</em> - Lay of Nimrodel<BR><BR>Short hair cannot flow in the wind.<BR><BR><em>"To Legolas she gave a bow such as the Galadhrim used, longer and stouter than the bows of Mirkwood, and strung with a string of elf-hair."</em> - Legolas' gift from the Galadhrim<BR><BR>This implies that a normal feature of Elves is long and strong hair.<BR><BR><em>"The hair of the Lord Celeborn was of silver, long and bright."</em><BR><BR>Those are the ones I found upon looking quickly through FotR. I'm fairly sure I missed several.<BR><BR>EDIT: I spent a long time making this post. After reading Nienor's post, the point of this post was suddenly very diminished. But anyway. Long hair at leaast was the most normal. Some may have cut their hair at a point.<BR><BR>EDIT 2: IMO, all of the people in Tolkien's world has long hair and always have had so.
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Postby Elmtree » Sat Feb 28, 2004 4:09 pm

>>The reason is only a trumped-up reason, really, to satisfy all those whom the movies convinced all Elves have long hair and who now demanded to know why Maedhros didn't. <<<BR><BR>I don't think it's the movie that causes folks to think Elves have long hair. I always pictured them with longer hair, and I read the books in 1969! (yes, I'm oooollllldddd<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>).<BR><BR>It's those braidy things that get me! Ai! And the girly-man elves in Lorien! (apologies to Aliana for stealing her girly-man line<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>).<BR><BR>However, I like seeing other folks images, even if they are different from mine. Some I'll like and some I won't, but it's always interesting to me.<BR><BR>I'm not sure, though, I could get used to elves with buzz-cuts. Orcs, maybe. Not elves.<BR><BR><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>
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Postby rowanberry » Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:07 am

I don't think the hair of Jenny's elves is too short yet - one could well imagine that, some of them cut their hair just for practical reasons, especially at times of war. But, if someone tries to portray male elves looking like present-day businessmen, I'll protest...<BR><BR>Those older works weren't bad at all, either - although the development is clear.
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