Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

What do you think of Tolkien on the silver screen...? Whether Bakshi, Jackson, Amazon, BBC radio play, or whoever else, come on in and discuss your reflections, opinions, and memories...

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby oldtoby » Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:31 pm

Since I do not know Billy Connoly from Adam, I had no reaction.


Billy Connoly = good

Billy Connoly riding a pig = not so good
User avatar
oldtoby
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 15281
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 10:40 pm
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby azadir » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:54 pm

on my way to watch it the second time and I've already have few EE expactations:

thorin put to rest with the Arkenstone
a little bit more of Beorn (the DoS EE did him much needed justice...)
Dain's rams
before departing from Gandalf in the shire Bilbo is seen holding the chest they hide in the troll's cave in AUJ - how he came by it and what's done with it will probably also be at the EE.
User avatar
azadir
Shield Bearer
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:41 am
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Lalaith-Elerrina » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:37 am

STILL haven't seen it. :roll: People's reactions are helping me feel, more or less, hopeful about the movie. I'll try to go in with an open mind. I really really want to like it.
User avatar
Lalaith-Elerrina
Ringbearer


 
Posts: 13740
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 7:46 pm
Location: Over there!
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby heliona » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:22 am

Lali, I am and was a pessimist when it comes to these films, because The Hobbit is very dear to my heart (more so than to most of the posters on here, I believe). However, I enjoyed it. Some things I didn't like, but they were obviously going to happen from the second film, and for the most part I enjoyed it. I'd be happy to see it again, which is not something I thought about the second film. :)
Image<-- Celebrating Science in the TVM!

Life is short; break the rules, forgive quickly; kiss slowly; love truly; laugh uncontrollably; and never regret anything that made you smile. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.

Grab a chance and you won't be sorry for the might-have-beens. - Arthur Ransome

Just because I have the vocabulary of a well-educated sailor doesn't mean I'm not a lady.

In Memoriam EDW - March 14th 2009
In Memoriam rowanberry - March 1st 2014 (~In Memoriam AHH - Alfred Lord Tennyson~)

Photos: My Flickr Photo Collections & Wee Nell - the furry ball of mischief!


(I occasionally post as White Shadow - you've been warned!)

New posters, there's a Welcome and Comprehensive Guide to the Messageboard to answer your questions.
User avatar
heliona
The Sexy One ~ Hellaciously Huggable

 
Posts: 10531
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 11:14 am
Location: Atop a sunny hill
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby eomer32 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:29 am

I saw it Thursday afternoon and I loved it. A wonderful film and a great end to the trilogy.
User avatar
eomer32
Rider of the Mark

 
Posts: 730
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 7:56 pm
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby wilko185 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:44 am

Saw it yesterday, and was pleasantly surprised. As others have said, it doesn't depart from the tone of the previous two films, so if you don't like PJ's silliness, lack of subtlety, and extravagance, then this film isn't going to work for you. But I thought the whole thing was a lot better executed than DOS. And unlike the previous two films, it felt like an extended edition might be really worth watching. I wanted a bit more of the people of the Lake Towners (except Alfred), and of Beorn, and the battle, and Bilbo's trip home, etc.

Admittedly I went in just expecting a long drawn-out battle, but the fighting scenes didn't seem to overbalance the story. Though I must say, as a 'war film' I think it fell a bit short, by not clearly laying out the course and strategy of the battle (what happened to the Fifth army, exactly? why have the dwarves set a defensive line, only for the elves leap over it, so the dwarves just have to abandon it?).

Anyway, most of the character scenes with Bard, Thorin, and Bilbo worked well. No one did anything outrageously out of character. The elf-dwarf romance, and ninja Legolas, were no more distracting than previously. Loved the Thorin/Azog duel, which had moments of Fingolfin/Morgoth (Morgoth hurled aloft Grond, the Hammer of the Underworld, and swung it down like a bolt of thunder. ... Many times Morgoth essayed to smite him, and each time Fingolfin leaped away ..). I had appreciated AUJ's stone giant scene, so of course I liked the were-worms. I'm happy that they attempted the White Council/Dol Guldur scene, though they took some weird choices in how it went down. The overall look of the film was pretty and distinctive, particularly the snowy batte scenes (I don't understand the issues some have with the 48fps 3Dness).

This won't be winning many Oscars, but I'm happy for PJ that he finally got the record for 'most species of non-equine animals shown being ridden around' (even the bunny-sled got another outing).

As a fitting finale to the Middle-earth epic begun with FOTR all those years ago, this fell a little flat for me; a bit too melancholy and not enough of a kick in the emotional gut somehow. But as a decent film based on Tolkien's The Hobbit, I enjoyed it.
User avatar
wilko185
Mariner

 
Posts: 8307
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 2:10 pm
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby portia » Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:10 am

I agree about the lack of anything on the trip home. Looking forward to the EE.
I do not get the connection between the mountain giants and the sandworms.

Are there others who have seen the movie both in 3D and standard, who have comments. I am determined to see it in 3D.

And speaking of the DoS EE, has anyone any suggestions on how to tell the difference, and where to get the EE?
Last edited by portia on Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
portia
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 10841
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Lost in the forest
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby siddharth » Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:17 am

So, finally saw it. Yes, it's best of the three and most certainly feels much closer to the epic grandeur of LotR.

Negatives (which to my extreme surprise are quite few and insignificant compared to DoS and especially AUJ...and I'm well aware these are mostly nitpicks):

-The film doesn't feel like a film. More like 2-hour season finale. The movie just awkwardly starts with Esgaroth's destruction. A problem that stems from the 3 film split surely. I do understand why Smaug's demise was required to be shifted to film 3 - the dragon's death and dragon-sickness need to be seen in continuation as a single piece for the themes to be fully appreciated. But it feels disjointed. (and emphasizes my viewpoint that the three hobbit films need to be seen in continuity for appreciation of certain things like Smaug and Thorin's descent into madness.)

-Were worms felt out of place.

-I didn't think the Bats added anything at all to the story or the intensity of the battle. They just came, sort of vanished during the one on one duels, and then got scraped off by the eagles.

-Azog's sword-arm. So much more cheesier than the mechanical arm.

- Dol Guldur: Felt out of place. But for what it's worth, I liked most of it. Totally, absolutely loved Elrond and Saruman kicking some arse! Galadriel's freak-show was okay. Not as bad as I'd thought and not as good as it could have been. But it works better here than in FotR. (though I still don't know why they mess up with her voice! Miss Blanchett has a powerful enough!) I didn't really like Gandalf's "Sleeping beauty" moment either.

-Thorin's change of heart felt badly directed to me. The scene of Thorin engulfed in gold was a nice touch but could have been filmed so much better and without that much slo mo!

- The use of slo-mo in general. I think this film has the most slo-mo moments than any of the films.

Neutrals:

-Most of the Alfrid stuff, that seems to be bothering people, didn't affect me too much.
-Bard using Bain as a make-shift bow.
-Most surprisingly, I thought the Tauriel-Legolas-Kili subplot was far less intrusive in this one than in DOS. And I actually thought most of Legolas' stunts were quite normal for an athletic Elf (minus the toppling bridge - with extra gauzy slo-mo - and him hanging from a bat.)
-The battle itself was not that exceptional compared to Helm's Deep or Pelennor. At times it's confused and muddled. But has certain high-notes.

Positives:

-Smaug's death. I didn't connect with the film as much to strongly appreciate the scene, because of the awkward opening. But it was still a great scene.
-Thorin's decent into madness. It's OTT as expected from PJ, but (as a certain PassdaGas said on another messageboard) has a very Nebuchadnezzarian-feel to it. If I ever doubted Armitage's acting in the last two films, this one's worth the wait.
-Bilbo, Bilbo and Bilbo. Most certainly the fulcrum of the story and it's main character. Dunno how so many critics miss it. There is not a *Single* scene in the entire film in which Bilbo is present and is not darn perfect. The best character in any middle-earth film. Ever.
-Thorin and Azog's final duel, I liked it. Being the only mano-a-mano in middle-earth to happen on thin ice, and given the gladiatorial nature of the combat, it felt totally unique when compared to the vast numbers of hollywood formulated climactic duels. The image of Azog floating beneath the ice was spooky and effective.
-The Deaths. All of them worked for me thankfully. Fili's was shocking and dramatic. Wasn't bothered by Kili defending Tauriel and the brutal nature of his killing. Though the overlong shot of him and Tauriel looking into each other's eyes was extremely cringe-worthy. As for Thorin, his final parting is just behind Boromir's death from FotR in terms in the collection of ME_deaths. I guess they had to change as the nature of the quest was changed as well, but I am really not happy with the change in Thorin's final words.
-Dain. Too short perhaps and lacks a conclusion. But I liked him a lot. Very different from Thorin, and I'm glad he was.
-All the scenes between Bilbo and Thorin.
-Bilbo presenting the Arkenstone in Thranduil's tent is one of my favorite scenes of the film.
-Bard and Thranduil challenging Thorin. Seemed right out of the pages of the book.
-Thranduil's Elk! <3
-Dwalin and Thorin's conversation.
-Bilbo and Balin's conversation and Bilbo's parting - probably the most touching scene for me. Even more than Thorin's death.
-The Auction (never imagined it'd be there). In fact the entire final 20-25 minutes is brilliant. It surpasses even the first hour of AUJ in terms of adaptation, which I didn't think was quite possible.
-Billy Boyd's song is a cracker and so are Alan Lee's sketches.
User avatar
siddharth
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 4169
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:13 am
Location: ===Always changing===
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby wilko185 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:57 am

portia wrote:I do not get the connection between the mountain giants and the sandworms.

Well, they are both based on a throwaway reference in the book to some fantastical creature. When making an adaptation, I can imagine the film-makers debating:
"This [stone giant/were-worm] thing isn't integral to the plot in the book, in fact we'd have to shift the plot of the script to justify their appearance. Some fans are going to be confused by this. Even the hardcore fans won't object if we drop them. The SFX will be hugely expensive. Is it really worth it to include them?"

PJ's answer position on that question appears to be: "Um ... how cool will it be?"

Are there others who have seen the movie both in 3D and standard, who have comments. I am determined to see it in 3D.

I can only speak to the 3D version, which we thought was very smoothly done. Some scenes used the 3D strikingly and appropriately, but it wasn't in your face. We saw it with another TORCer who had previously seen the 2D version, I don't think he mentioned any particular issues with it.
And speaking of the DoS EE, has anyone any suggestions on how to tell the difference, and where to get the EE?

The EE is labelled as such, and is the 186 minute version (I bought the collector's edition as a present, stupidly assuming it would include the EE. It doesn't.)
User avatar
wilko185
Mariner

 
Posts: 8307
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 2:10 pm
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby MaxPower » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:02 pm

Wilko185,

The cover of the dos extended edition helpfully has 'EXTENDED EDITION' emblazoned across the top, like so:

http://www.amazon.com/Hobbit-Desolation ... ed+edition

Now, that's the blu ray, but I did see the dvd version in Wal-Mart last month, and it also had the phrase splashed across the top. Poking around Amazon, I couldn't find the dvd extended version, so I don't know what's going on there.

But the clincher for knowing you have an extended edition, is the run-time (which can be found on the bottom of the back cover): theatrical cut - 161 min. extended cut - 186 min.

amazon lists the run-time in the 'product details' part of the item page.

Any major retailer - Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy, Fred Meijer (or your local equivalents if you're in a different part of the world), should have it in stock.

It's totally worth getting, by the way. Sequences like Beorn and Mirkwood - which were disappointments in the theatrical version, imo - are now series high points.

-Max
User avatar
MaxPower
Shield Bearer

 
Posts: 498
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 4:09 pm
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Gungnir » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:15 pm

.
User avatar
Gungnir
Mariner

 
Posts: 6139
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 7:05 am
Location: Isle of Man
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby RyersonSonOfRyer » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:36 pm

My only real problem with this film is that just as soon as they cut half the words that Thorin says before he dies. He's supposed to say "....but sad or merry, I must leave it now.......farewell!" And just as soon as it starts to get really emotional for little Bilbo and he starts crying and whimpering like in the book, you only see two seconds of it and it cuts straight to Tauriel and Kili.

THE TAURIEL AND KILI ROMANCE IS NOT THE EMOTIONAL PINNACLE OF THE BATTLE OF FIVE ARMIES, ITS SUPPOSED TO BE BILBO AND THORIN. it made me really mad, who cares about Tauriel and Kili's dumb romance addition, WE WANT TO SEE THE EMOTIONAL BILBO AND THORIN STUFF!!! :x
User avatar
RyersonSonOfRyer
Citizen of Imladris
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:10 pm
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby heliona » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:38 pm

MaxPower, that's pretty much what Wilko said in his last sentence. (It's worth noting that the second "EE" is also a link - TORC doesn't make links clear sometimes.)

Anyway, portia, I think the best thing to remember when looking for the Extended Edition is that the Collector's Edition is not the extended version, as it was for the LotR films. I think that causes confusion amongst those of us who bought the EE of LotR films (at least it did confuse me when I was first looking for the extended version of AUJ).
Image<-- Celebrating Science in the TVM!

Life is short; break the rules, forgive quickly; kiss slowly; love truly; laugh uncontrollably; and never regret anything that made you smile. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.

Grab a chance and you won't be sorry for the might-have-beens. - Arthur Ransome

Just because I have the vocabulary of a well-educated sailor doesn't mean I'm not a lady.

In Memoriam EDW - March 14th 2009
In Memoriam rowanberry - March 1st 2014 (~In Memoriam AHH - Alfred Lord Tennyson~)

Photos: My Flickr Photo Collections & Wee Nell - the furry ball of mischief!


(I occasionally post as White Shadow - you've been warned!)

New posters, there's a Welcome and Comprehensive Guide to the Messageboard to answer your questions.
User avatar
heliona
The Sexy One ~ Hellaciously Huggable

 
Posts: 10531
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 11:14 am
Location: Atop a sunny hill
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby MaxPower » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:16 pm

Whoops! I meant Portia. Sorry, wilko185! That'll learn me for skimming threads too quickly. :oops:
User avatar
MaxPower
Shield Bearer

 
Posts: 498
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 4:09 pm
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby portia » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:18 am

Thank you, everyone.
I was very confused by Amazon, which does not seem to have the EE.

I am going to try some other stores before I decide to go off the mountain, shopping.

(On Sandworms) I suppose some Dune fan thought that it would be cool, but given my attitude to Dune, I did not agree.)
User avatar
portia
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 10841
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Lost in the forest
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Minardil » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:37 am

portia wrote:Thank you, everyone.
I was very confused by Amazon, which does not seem to have the EE.

I am going to try some other stores before I decide to go off the mountain, shopping.

(On Sandworms) I suppose some Dune fan thought that it would be cool, but given my attitude to Dune, I did not agree.)


I ordered my DoS:EE from Amazon! Just got it last week (or the week before?). Maybe not in DVD, only Blu Ray? I dunno, either way Amazon's where I got mine.

I saw BoTFA yesterday, and I have to say that I really enjoyed it. I felt that it steered back closer to the original story, or rather, where it deviated from the original, it mostly did so only to wrap up new story lines already introduced, it didn't seem to throw much in the way of "new" invented stuff at us.

There wasn't anything that I absolutely hated, though I certainly rolled my eyes at a few points. I thought the Were-worms were silly, frankly, but I do see how they made it into the story. It seems to me that PJ was looking for a way to "spring" the Orc army on the gathered armies of Dwarves, Men, and Elves in such a way that the approaching enemy would not be seen until the last minute. Having them burst out of the ground is one solution to that, and using the were-worms - which Tolkien had referenced in a throw away passage earlier in the story - seems logical at least, though these monsters are obviously much more akin to the might Sand Worms of Arrakis than to what I imagine Tolkien had envisioned for his were-worms of the Last Desert. And really, Super Ninja Legolas is one thing, but Physics Defying Legolas is something else. I can accept that a particularly nimble elf warrior might be able to balance on the heads of two dwarves who are riding down a raging river in two separate barrels, or that he might be able to surf down a stone staircase on a shield, firing his bow all the while, but I can't see how he could run up a bunch of falling stones as if they were a staircase. Sorry, but objects in free fall don't provide any reactive force for Legolas to push against! Oh, and that prolonged death scene where Kili looks at Tauriel was painful, that moment should have been much quicker.
User avatar
Minardil
Mariner


 
Posts: 9944
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2001 8:06 am
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Semprini » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:52 am

I saw BOTFA and I am afraid I found it completely stupid. It is worse than I thought it would be. The Hobbit was too simple and fragile and tale for the kind of big blockbuster PJ had in mind. Considering The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings as one tale told in six film, with the same tone and point of view in each film, was a terrible idea. PJ did not understand the nature of The Hobbit, which is a children's tale, quite different in tone and purpose from The Lord of the Rings. The structure of The Hobbit as a tale was too simple and linear, too thin, to support all those references to other events and to LOTR which PJ included (such events were not described by Tolkien in The Hobbit, and were only alluded to in a few lines, for a reason : because in terms of structure, they could not be told within the framework of The Hobbit, without killing the tone of the story and without creating a completely unbalanced story). The seriousness of the tone of PJ's films cannot adjust well to the simple nature of Tolkien's Hobbit tale. The Hobbit was published in 1937, before LOTR, and at the beginning, Tolkien did not intend it to be a Middle Earth story, hence this peculiar tone of the Hobbit, which is centered around a peculiar character, Bilbo Baggings, and not around gigantic CGI battles. The fact that The Hobbit as a book was published before LOTR whereas PJ's Hobbit comes after PJ's LOTR makes a big, big difference.

Regarding the movie: Special mentions to the Kung-fu training at Dol Guldur (I didn't know PJ had included excerpts from the BOTFA video game in the movie), the worms escaped from Herbert's Dune, the antics of Legolas which were even sillier than in LOTR (Legolas is such a ridiculous and bland movie-character), the war-movie traumas of Thranduil and Tauriel and for Dain the headbutter. It is a movie where PJ's obsession for battles and monsters completely destroys Tolkien's Hobbit. But I do not even know why I am mentioning Tolkien, which has nothing to do with this silly war movie. The only scenes I liked were the one between Bilbo and Balin about the Arkenstone, and the two scenes between Bilbo and Thorin (Freeman and Armitage are perfect in these scenes). This movie makes Return of the King look like a masterpiece.
Last edited by Semprini on Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Semprini
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1188
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 1:00 am
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby heliona » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:48 am

Minardil wrote:I ordered my DoS:EE from Amazon! Just got it last week (or the week before?). Maybe not in DVD, only Blu Ray? I dunno, either way Amazon's where I got mine.


The UK website of Amazon has DoS Extended Edition on DVD right here: Amazon UK - DoS EE so I presume that it is available on DVD in the US too. :)
Image<-- Celebrating Science in the TVM!

Life is short; break the rules, forgive quickly; kiss slowly; love truly; laugh uncontrollably; and never regret anything that made you smile. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.

Grab a chance and you won't be sorry for the might-have-beens. - Arthur Ransome

Just because I have the vocabulary of a well-educated sailor doesn't mean I'm not a lady.

In Memoriam EDW - March 14th 2009
In Memoriam rowanberry - March 1st 2014 (~In Memoriam AHH - Alfred Lord Tennyson~)

Photos: My Flickr Photo Collections & Wee Nell - the furry ball of mischief!


(I occasionally post as White Shadow - you've been warned!)

New posters, there's a Welcome and Comprehensive Guide to the Messageboard to answer your questions.
User avatar
heliona
The Sexy One ~ Hellaciously Huggable

 
Posts: 10531
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 11:14 am
Location: Atop a sunny hill
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Linden » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:37 am

Have seen it twice now, both times in 3D. The 3D made it seem to me as if 'I was there' in a way - not used to show off something cool using the effect, just made it seem more 'real' to me. I liked it, and as I haven't seen the previous two in theaters this was my first experience with PJ's use of the technique. This is my favorite of PJ's six attempts at ME - gives the closest rendition of what I found important and meaningful in the book. Bilbo is the hero through his steadfast character, beautifully acted. His 'hobbitishness' carries the day. Tauriel and Fili bring a love theme into the story in a way that Tolkien alludes to but never does - no foul for me and I like their drama personally - and how we see through a crack Thranduil's cold emotional armor at the end. I like his stag and think the scene following it's demise where he is surrounded in the courtyard has an exquisite and terrible elegance - worthy of a tolkien elf. I happen to like the way his character was written and played in these films - a flawed but powerful elf as I think Tolkien intended many of his elves to be. I was never happy with PJ and Fran's Elrond (I like him as a warrior in this film). I found Galadriel's nuclear scene much more appropriate here than at her mirror. I liked the battle with the Nine better than any other depiction of them in the films. I detest Weathertop and how they were portrayed in LOTR as a physical threat rather than a magical one - after Frodo's soul and spirit (and through that the Ring), not his physical death.

Beautiful setting for the battle between Dale and the mountain, beautiful tour into Erebor, the battle between Thorin and Azog has great drama and is well acted. We see Azog thinking he has Thorin at a disadvantage on the ice floe and press his attack hard only to have Thorin dodge all his flailing. We see the mental battle, cold hatred and desire for revenge and the savoring of that revenge by Thorin who has paid for it with his life - very well done I think.

I liked the moment where Bard tells his son "You look at me!" to calm and give him courage.

I find myself wishing this was PJ's first attempt to depict ME instead of the last. Bittersweet success for me.

For the record I dislike PJ's LOTR films because for me they are so uneven between getting things perfectly right, or near so, and completely bungling things. I have difficulty watching them through. I don't have that problem with DoS and BoFA.
User avatar
Linden
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1689
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 3:49 pm
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby wilko185 » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:04 pm

Minardil wrote: And really, Super Ninja Legolas is one thing, but Physics Defying Legolas is something else. I can accept that a particularly nimble elf warrior might be able to balance on the heads of two dwarves who are riding down a raging river in two separate barrels, or that he might be able to surf down a stone staircase on a shield, firing his bow all the while, but I can't see how he could run up a bunch of falling stones as if they were a staircase. Sorry, but objects in free fall don't provide any reactive force for Legolas to push against!

/physics derail

Providing that Legolas pushes off fast enough, the centre of mass of elf and rock can remain accelerating downwards at one g, while allowing Legolas to rise. Though admittedly he would need to accelerate very quickly to achieve this (100g according to some random guestimate). More to the point, it's really just disbelief that needs to be suspended. This is meant to be a world where Legolas can walk across a snowfield that others sink in to, while scarcely leaving a footprint. I think the film-makers have at least tried to consistently present the elves as having that sort of superhuman ability.

My personal bad physics moment was when the tower held its structure after falling horizontally across the chasm. Stonework just seems to operate differently in this Middle-earth :).
User avatar
wilko185
Mariner

 
Posts: 8307
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 2:10 pm
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Minardil » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:14 pm

Providing that Legolas pushes off fast enough, the centre of mass of elf and rock can remain accelerating downwards at one g, while allowing Legolas to rise


This is true enough, if Legolas was "launching" himself off of each successive stone by pushing that stone downward with a significant increase in acceleration then he WOULD be able raise his own center of gravity in accordance with the conservation of momentum, BUT the falling stones don't demonstrate that sort of increased acceleration, they appear to tumble away more or less unaffected by him. I suppose I could do the math to figure out what sort of force he'd need to apply to each stone, but then I don't really care that much ;)

And totally agreed about the tower, indeed I meant to mention it myself. Every other masonry tower we've seen in Middle Earth - from the towers of Minas Tirith and Osgiliath in RoTK, to the towers of Dale in these movies, show the sort of behavior we'd expect from such structures: When you hit them with something heavy, such as a huge chunk of stone hurled from a trebuchet, they break apart and crumble. For some reason, Legolas can knock over a tower on Ravenhill and have it maintain enough structural integrity to form a handy bride over a chasm. At least until the stones start falling away and become freefalling airborne staircases. I think PJ could have done the same thing with a lattice-work wooden or iron tower - something like a modern power cable tower - and it would have been at least believable, though still highly implausible.
User avatar
Minardil
Mariner


 
Posts: 9944
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2001 8:06 am
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Linden » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:31 pm

Can't elves run on top of the snow etc? [Edit: as Wilko has already pointed out LOL]Yeah, many of the characters took some serious tumbles that didn't seem to mar or damage them - including Legolas and Bolg on that oh so convenient 'bridge'. If I recall Legolas plans that all out in advance, assessing the tower first and then driving the troll, or what ever monster he is riding, to knock it over in the appropriate direction.

I guess I have become inured to such staging over the 6 films and hardly notice it now.
User avatar
Linden
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1689
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 3:49 pm
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Linden » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:39 pm

Just wanted to note a couple more moments that caught my attention in the film - Bilbo and Gandalf sitting together after the battle, not speaking, while Gandalf fusses with his pipe - rather nice I thought. Also Balin using facial expression to acknowledge what is behind Bilbo's words about the Arkenstone - also a nice touch and perhaps not so easy to pull off with all the facial enhancments.
User avatar
Linden
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1689
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 3:49 pm
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby krawler » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:58 pm

Saw it yesterday, and my one word review is: Meh.

Expanding slightly upon that, overall I just thought it was entirely underwhelming. So little of it had any impact on me that I can't even remember enough to do a point-by-point review like the rest of you. I'm on record on this board as not being a fan of Peter Jackson's, uh, style, so I was never in any danger of loving the movie. Unlike DoS there weren't any completely non-sensical action sequences that didn't belong in the narrative, and the only thing that struck me as completely out of place was the cameo appearance of Shai Hulud. All of the properly placed action sequences were of course over-done and got boring pretty quickly, and any quiet moments lacked real subtlety. All those loose ends at the end left me kind of annoyed, too.

Really, I often felt like the movie was trying to elicit emotional responses from me, but failing to deliver at every turn. I actually felt the need to watch a completely different movie later in the day, one that always manages to get emotions from me, sort of as a palette cleanser.

I won't say it's the worst film in the trilogy, but with the other two I felt compelled to watch a second time to see which of my initial impressions would stick and I don't feel the need to do that with this one.
User avatar
krawler
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:44 pm
Location: Not Middle-earth... yet.
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby RyersonSonOfRyer » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:10 pm

About this movie: Does anybody know what happened to the wargs that were supposed to show up in the film???????????
And why wasn't the sky dark and gritty looking like it was supposed to be?????????
And why were the eagles only in there, and beorn as well, for a matter of 10 seconds?????????
And what about the bats showing up for a few seconds with so much build up????????? What happened to the clouds of bats?????????

I thought the day in which the war took place was too bright and it wasn't dark enough. It didn't really FEEL like the battle of five armies.
THIS is what the battle of five armies is supposed to look like:

Image
User avatar
RyersonSonOfRyer
Citizen of Imladris
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:10 pm
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby RyersonSonOfRyer » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:34 pm

I hope in the extended edition we see the dwarves sing "far over" tune again like they did in the book the night before the battle. That would be great to see.
I also hope we see more of Bilbo crying over Thorin's death, and Thorin being put in his tomb with the arkenstone in a ceremonial way. I just feel in the theatrical we didn't get enough emotion from Thorin's death, it made me feel a little ripped off.
User avatar
RyersonSonOfRyer
Citizen of Imladris
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:10 pm
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby RyersonSonOfRyer » Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:43 pm

One thing I disliked about the death of Smaug was that they didn't make Bilbo ultimately responsible for the dragons death.
this is how it went in the book:

For it is Bilbo who, in his banter with the dragon, discovers that Smaug the Impenetrable is not quite as impenetrable as he might think he is ("Old fool! Why there is a large patch in the hollow of his left breast as bare as a snail out of its shell!"). He relates the facts of the matter to Thorin and company, a conversation overheard by...the thrush. The same thrush whose knocking upon the rocks leads Bilbo to discover the door.

"Drat the bird!" said Bilbo crossly. "I believe he is listening, and I don't like the look of him."
"Leave him alone!" said Thorin. "The thrushes are good and friendly-this is a very old bird indeed, and is maybe the last left of the ancient breed that used to live about here, tame to the hands of my father and grandfather. They were a long-lived and magical race, and this might even be one of those that were alive then, a couple of hundreds years or more ago. The Men of Dale used to have the trick of understanding their language, and used them for messengers to fly to the Men of the Lake and elsewhere.
"Well, he'll have news to take to Lake-town all right, if that is what he is after," said Bilbo; "though I don't suppose there are any people left there that trouble with thrush-language."

Turn your eyes southward now, where Esgaroth is under attack. The town has seen the dragon coming, rallied, and with evacuation underway has met Smaug onslaught with a storm of arrows. A bowman named Bard is down to his last arrow, and is startled when a (nay, the) thrush alights on his shoulder.

Unafraid it perched by his ear and it brought him news. Marvelling he found he could understand its tongue, for he was of the race of Dale.
"Wait! Wait!" it said to him. "The moon is rising. Look for the hollow of the left breast as he flies and turns above you!" And while Bard paused in wonder it told him of tidings up in the Mountain and of all that it had heard. Then Bard drew his bow-string to his ear.
User avatar
RyersonSonOfRyer
Citizen of Imladris
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:10 pm
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Linden » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:19 pm

http://www.urbancinefile.com.au/home/vi ... &s=Reviews Legolas kills Smaug?! Science Fiction film?! Hmmm, don't think I saw that movie...
User avatar
Linden
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1689
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 3:49 pm
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Linden » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:28 pm

RyersonSonOfRyer wrote:One thing I disliked about the death of Smaug was that they didn't make Bilbo ultimately responsible for the dragons death.
this is how it went in the book:

For it is Bilbo who, in his banter with the dragon, discovers that Smaug the Impenetrable is not quite as impenetrable as he might think he is ("Old fool! Why there is a large patch in the hollow of .....


They chose to play this differently, although Bilbo does note the missing scale during his discussions with the dragon. Bard's son recount's the tale of Smaug's attack on Dale in their house in Laketown and says Girion loosened a scale with his last shot. The dwarves dismiss this as myth and disparage the bowmen of Dale, so the Bard's knowledge and exploitation of it is about redeeming his ancestor's effort. Don't know if something will be added in the EE about this.
User avatar
Linden
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1689
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 3:49 pm
Top

Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Unwin » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:06 am

So, today, I saw it on the last possible day I could get to see it on big screen. After the bitter feelings engendered by DOS, I had been deliberately avoiding message boards and been ignoring any press releases and trailers so as not to have any expectations. Well, it seemed to have worked. I liked this one best of all three Hobbit movies.

It was still with mixed feelings though because of the usual gratuitous PJ moments. Sandworms, really? The women of Laketown taking up arms? Yeah, really had to make sure that they would not be criticized for not having strong female characters. The whole Alfrid bit seemed so unnecessary. None of us can seem to recall what happened to him eventually.

Can't help but recall again that fatal decision to make three instead of two. DOS and AUJ could really have been so much better. And now we're left with this one that somehow is better but cannot fully redeem the other two. Sigh... what could have been,

So, is this the end? End of the message boards too? It's been nice to have exchanged views with all of you. I hope we can continue somehow. I'll probably never make it to the Oxford moots but who knows?

Well, au revoir and all that.
User avatar
Unwin
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1095
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 6:15 pm
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Movies and Media: Tolkien

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs.com and 4 guests

cron