Updated (final?) Map for Amazon's LotR series

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Updated (final?) Map for Amazon's LotR series

Postby Otaku-sempai » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:31 am

"One Ring to rule them all...": https://www.amazon.com/adlp/lotronprime.

Númenor! as described in Unfinished Tales. Eregion before the founding of Imladris. The inclusion of the woodlands of Eriador and Enedhwaith. If this is in fact indicative of the setting of Amazon's Lord of the Rings series then we are looking at the Second Age even before the forging of the Great Rings.
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Re: Updated (final?) Map for Amazon's LotR series

Postby Denethor » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:59 pm

Not just that. The Numenorean map confirms that Amazon have the rights to Unfinished Tales - which is a wedge into The Silmarillion (Turin and Tuor). While this Second Age series won't go there, it's now only a matter of time before The Silmarillion itself ends up on screen.
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Re: Updated (final?) Map for Amazon's LotR series

Postby Denethor » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:52 pm

Some more thoughts:

https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2019/03/08/picked-it-of-the-second-age-and-unfinished-tales-on-screen/

The biggest puzzle is Tol Fuin and Tol Morwen. Amazon surely don't have the rights to The History of Middle-earth and The Silmarillion... but what are those two islands doing?
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Re: Updated (final?) Map for Amazon's LotR series

Postby Denethor » Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:47 am

OK. Turns out Tol Fuin does get mentioned in the introduction to Unfinished Tales (p.19. of my edition). As depicted though, it is only in The History of Middle-earth.

Tol Morwen is only referenced in the published Silmarillion and The War of the Jewels (The Wanderings of Hurin). That's the real problematic one. How do you reference it without the rights to either The Silmarillion or The History of Middle-earth?
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Re: Updated (final?) Map for Amazon's LotR series

Postby JudyA » Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:26 am

Tippy toes in to find out the latest news about the Amazon series ( Long time no see, peeps :D ) ... just a bit excited about the fact that it’s set in the Second Age!!
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Re: Updated (final?) Map for Amazon's LotR series

Postby Thor 'n' Oakenshield » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:54 am

I'm very excited - SECOND AGE! What I've always dreamed of! My imagination is running wild with the prospect!
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Re: Updated (final?) Map for Amazon's LotR series

Postby Voronwe_the_Faithful » Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:48 pm

Denethor wrote:OK. Turns out Tol Fuin does get mentioned in the introduction to Unfinished Tales (p.19. of my edition). As depicted though, it is only in The History of Middle-earth.

Tol Morwen is only referenced in the published Silmarillion and The War of the Jewels (The Wanderings of Hurin). That's the real problematic one. How do you reference it without the rights to either The Silmarillion or The History of Middle-earth?


It appears that they are largely basing their maps on Karen Fonstad's The Atlas of Middle-earth (in which Tol Morwen does appear). Whether or not they negotiated rights to that work, I don't know. The whole rights situation seems to be very unclear.
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Re: Updated (final?) Map for Amazon's LotR series

Postby Denethor » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:24 pm

Voronwe_the_Faithful wrote:
Denethor wrote:OK. Turns out Tol Fuin does get mentioned in the introduction to Unfinished Tales (p.19. of my edition). As depicted though, it is only in The History of Middle-earth.

Tol Morwen is only referenced in the published Silmarillion and The War of the Jewels (The Wanderings of Hurin). That's the real problematic one. How do you reference it without the rights to either The Silmarillion or The History of Middle-earth?


It appears that they are largely basing their maps on Karen Fonstad's The Atlas of Middle-earth (in which Tol Morwen does appear). Whether or not they negotiated rights to that work, I don't know. The whole rights situation seems to be very unclear.


That was my initial thought as well - but Fonstad's rights to depict these places comes from the Estate. I don't think she can transfer them on further?
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Re: Updated (final?) Map for Amazon's LotR series

Postby Denethor » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:25 pm

Thor 'n' Oakenshield wrote:I'm very excited - SECOND AGE! What I've always dreamed of! My imagination is running wild with the prospect!


It might even revive TORC. :)
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Re: Updated (final?) Map for Amazon's LotR series

Postby Thor 'n' Oakenshield » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:40 pm

Denethor wrote:It might even revive TORC. :)


I hope so! It's gonna be the biggest TV show ever made, right? We Tolkien fans should feel very proud that we get that honor!
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Re: Updated (final?) Map for Amazon's LotR series

Postby Voronwe_the_Faithful » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:57 am

Denethor wrote:
Voronwe_the_Faithful wrote:
Denethor wrote:OK. Turns out Tol Fuin does get mentioned in the introduction to Unfinished Tales (p.19. of my edition). As depicted though, it is only in The History of Middle-earth.

Tol Morwen is only referenced in the published Silmarillion and The War of the Jewels (The Wanderings of Hurin). That's the real problematic one. How do you reference it without the rights to either The Silmarillion or The History of Middle-earth?


It appears that they are largely basing their maps on Karen Fonstad's The Atlas of Middle-earth (in which Tol Morwen does appear). Whether or not they negotiated rights to that work, I don't know. The whole rights situation seems to be very unclear.


That was my initial thought as well - but Fonstad's rights to depict these places comes from the Estate. I don't think she can transfer them on further?


While it is true, of course, that her work was based on Tolkien's, she did a lot original work putting together maps based on information that is only textual which I would think would have its own copyright protection. For instance, Tol Morwen does not appear on any official maps; it only is mentioned in the Silm and WotJ. The maps that Amazon has presented are closest enough to Fonstad's work that it would seem likely that they would need to have obtained permission from her estate (the copyright notice in the book says Copyright ©1991 Karen Wynn Fonstad).

On another issue, I was wondering to what extent Christopher held individual copyright rights to the books that he edited. Looking at the copyright notices on my copies of The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, all the volumes of HoMe and the three stand-alone Great Tale books (at least in the Houghton Mifflin versions that I own), Christopher only claims individual copyright rights to The Silmarillion and The Children of Hurin, as well as the notes and commentary in Beren and Luthien and The Fall of Gondolin. Everything else is either listed as "Copyright ©[year] by Frank Richard Williamson and Christopher Reuel Tolkien as Executors of the Estate of J. R. R. Tolkien" or "Copyright ©[year] Tolkien Copyright Trust."

Although, I understand a Harper Collins trade paperback copy of The Peoples of Middle-earth says "Copyright © The Tolkien Estate Limited and C.R. Tolkien 1996." So who knows?
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