Spoilers from the Photo Guide

What do you think of Tolkien on the silver screen...? Whether Bakshi, Jackson, Amazon, BBC radio play, or whoever else, come on in and discuss your reflections, opinions, and memories...

Postby Radagast-the-Ruddy » Sun Nov 10, 2002 12:34 am

More like the brutifying of Faramir.
User avatar
Radagast-the-Ruddy
Mariner


 
Posts: 8870
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2002 9:58 pm
Top

Postby Yuedar » Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:25 am

"I'm confused about this "Sharku" deal. Wasn't that the orc's name for Saruman (meaning old man)?"<BR><BR>Sharky actually
User avatar
Yuedar
Shield Bearer
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 9:41 pm
Top

Postby Darmok_the_Green » Mon Nov 11, 2002 1:08 am

This is covered earlier on in this thread, but:<BR><BR>The name Sharkey was derived from the orcish word sharku, meaning old man. Like Lurtz, it's unlikely that the name Sharku will actually appear in the film to describe the warg rider.
User avatar
Darmok_the_Green
Rider of the Mark

 
Posts: 729
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 12:57 pm
Top

Postby DrStrangelove » Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:16 am

<i>I'm confused. I thought that as time progressed, Saruman became more and more a puppet of Sauron's enormously powerful will. Now it seems that as time progresses, he becomes more and more rebellious? That doesn't seem right.</i><BR><BR>Where do you get that from? Saruman initially proposes that he and Gandalf ally themselves with Sauron. It is only in the second film that you learn that he is attempting to betray his new master. Is PJ getting it wrong if he follows the books now! Some people are never happy <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR>
User avatar
DrStrangelove
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 4753
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2000 1:00 am
Top

Postby Saranthir » Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:23 am

Dr_S... I think in the books it felt much more like Saruman was always planning on betraying Sauron. He had his own agenda, certainly, and was defintely in contact with the big eye. He just seemed to me to be devious, plotting and waiting for the right moment. Perhaps he even thought he was fooling Sauron.<BR><BR>I agree that if you follow the books relatively well in regard to this, Saruman's deceit becomes ever more clear.<BR><BR>I think Mith was simply following the logic of what we have been 'lead' to believe - that Saruman is Sauron's stooge and becomes ever more so as the film progresses.<BR><BR>Clearly this is not the case, and Saruman in TTT is making a big play for himself.
User avatar
Saranthir
Ranger of the North


 
Posts: 2842
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 5:46 am
Top

Postby DrStrangelove » Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:38 am

There are "clues" to Saruman's treachery in the first film, most notably that his new orcs swear allegiance directly to him. I think the first book shows Saruman as a plotter but one that has been convinced that the path of allying with Sauron is better for HIM - in other words, seduced by Sauron's promises. He therefore tries to ensare Gandalf with the same logic, which of course, fails utterly.<BR><BR>It is only in TTT we learn that of Saruman's treachery, and that he wanted the Ring for himself. This is a change IMO from what the first book lead us to believe but to be honest, it was so long ago since I first read the books that I can't remember exactly what I felt about Saruman when I'd just read the one book.
User avatar
DrStrangelove
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 4753
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2000 1:00 am
Top

Postby Mithramien » Mon Nov 11, 2002 6:41 am

Dr_S et al:<BR><BR>The first book barely scratches on Saruman, since we don't have the benefit of the lengthy scenes given to us by PJ of peering into Saruman's character. But the spirit of his descent - at first seduced and aligned with Sauron, then attempting to seize power himself, seems right.<BR><BR>What's funny is how many people cried foul at Saruman's seeming obedience in the first film. People forget that they have read all three books, and transpose that understanding on information that a new audience should only have from one of three movies. Hence Aragorn is a weenie and Saruman is a lap dog. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
User avatar
Mithramien
Shield Bearer
 
Posts: 351
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 4:57 pm
Top

Postby Dave_LF » Mon Nov 11, 2002 6:48 am

<i>Hence Aragorn is a weenie and Saruman is a lap dog.</i><BR><BR>And Legolas and Gimli aren't friendly enough <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-rolleyes.gif"border=0> (pet peeve of mine).
User avatar
Dave_LF
Mariner

 
Posts: 7187
Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 8:39 pm
Top

Postby Angbasdil » Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:28 pm

<i>"Hence Aragorn is a weenie and Saruman is a lap dog.<BR><BR>And Legolas and Gimli aren't friendly enough (pet peeve of mine)."</i><BR><BR>And Merry and Pippin don't have any character development, and are too much alike. (my personal favorite.)
User avatar
Angbasdil
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 2030
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:21 pm
Top

Postby NiennaSorrowing » Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:50 pm

Well, to be fair, Angs, PJ and Co <i>did</i> cut out a very important part of M & P's character development in FotR: A Conspiracy Unmasked. I think I missed that chapter more than I missed the majority of Lothlorien, or the original Council of Elrond, or Frodo's song in Bree.<BR><BR>But I agree, it is unfair to claim PJ and Co haven't put enough character development of, say, Legolas and Gimli into FotR, when there was virtually no character development in the first book, either.<BR><BR>However, if L & G stay their respective stock characters throughout TTT, <i>then</i> people will have a legitimate beef. And I, for one, will be quite annoyed. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
User avatar
NiennaSorrowing
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 3516
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2001 9:34 pm
Top

Postby Valdagor » Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:05 pm

In the book, Saruman tries to sway Gandalf by saying that with the ring, the two of them could defy and overthrow Sauron. In the film, he says they must ally themselves <i>with</i> Sauron. The book argument seems a bit more persuasive, but since it looks like Saruman will go on to defy Sauron in the film anyway, I guess it doesn't matter so much.
User avatar
Valdagor
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1335
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2002 7:28 pm
Top

Previous

Return to Movies and Media: Tolkien

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests