Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson

[TheMightyRincewind]

Nobody posted it yet?

The Bonehunters prologue (link) has been posted on malazanempire.com

Not the final one but the one from the unedited manuscript. Kudos to Steven Erikson for sanctioning this!

[Mithfânion]

Here it is:

http://malazan.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/93 ... /352106879

The Demon is coming for Icarium and Mappo.

[TheMightyRincewind]

Heh, seems it would be better if links were colored differently or otherwise better visible, especially when you include them in the middle of your text, as I did in the previous message. Some kind of updated style sheet, maybe?

[§ol]

Hit up Gardens of the Moon over vacation, bought Deadhouse Gates. Thought this thread deserved a bump as a heads up for any others that may be considering the series.

Over at the site I work at, we not only got an interview with Erikson, he registered at the site and was kind enough to do a Q&A (There was supposed to be a continuous one, but sadly he has been unable to visit, so I won't bother with that thread). It's also looking like we may be getting an interview with a certain someone else that might interest you guys soon. But that's something else.

Anyway, some of you might be interested in reading them, so without further ado:

Interview
Q&A.

Cheers

[TheMightyRincewind]

Have fun reading the Malazan books, §ol!

Unfortunately, the time S.E. needs for new books seems to have effectively doubled with the next book, Bonehunters. Or maybe it's because he's delayed by other projects, like these novellas he's been releasing...

It's also looking like we may be getting an interview with a certain someone else that might interest you guys soon. But that's something else.

Don't you mean "read and find out" ?

[§ol]

Bleh. Seems it wasn't so much a secret as I had thought after all, the way he had posted it on the Team Board.

We're going to be having an interview with Ian Cameron Esslemont, the OTHER Malazan author, at some point in the near future.

[Kengo]

Malazan Book of the Fallen is the greatest series of fantasy I have read in ten years! I like how each book has it's own story-arc with a real ending.

Next week, I plan to read Night of Knives which I just received from Clarksworld Books.

[Elkay2]

As an American who has a hard time keeping up with what Malazan books are out there, where am I?
Just finished House of Chains, about to begin Tides of Midnight...How many more are already published in Canada and UK? (a good friend that I, ahem, turned on to Gardens of the Moon, ordered others from the canadian amazon.com six months ago, eru -- or should I say Hood -- bless her soul and I've borrowed them all)
I've found these books totally addictive. Bawled my eyes out at the end of Memories of Ice and found the climactic scene of House of Chains very sad, and almost anti-climactic but inevitable. Erikson's world building skills are awesome and I love that he doesn't have any wide-eyed farm boy with the blood of the gods running in his veins (to quote Erikson). The fisher girl is close enough to that for me...

[/code]

[TheMightyRincewind]

Elkay2:

"Midnight Tides" is the newest book that's on store shelves. The next one will be "Bonehunters" and is due out in the first half of next year (IIRC) - don't know how much delay there'll be for the American release, though.

[§ol]

As a followup, the interview with Ian Cameron Esselmont is up.

[§ol]

I just finished Memories of Ice.

Wow. That may well have been the saddest book I've ever read.

[ChrisAns]

Memories of Ice has a least a couple passages that are among my favorites in all of fantasy lit, maybe more than a couple.

The Tenescowri rose like an inexorable flood against every wall of the city. Rose, then swept over, a mass of humanity driven mad by hunger. Gate barricades buckled to the pressure, then gave way.

And Capustan drowned.
Something about those lines always sucks me in.

Instinctively, I think I should find Itkovian very cliche, the reluctant, repressed hero with the great destiny, but he really is compelling. He's so summed up in the scene where he is slowly meandering towards the big meeting of captains; talking with the grunts to waste time because he thinks he is neither needed nor wanted, only to find the assembly waiting on him. Just totally incomprehensible to his mind that he is worthy of respect and acclaim.

[TheMightyRincewind]

Just finished the newest book "The Bonehunters". I'm not very good at writing reviews, so I'm just going to write down some thoughts...

"Bonehunters" is the largest and most complex of the "Malazan Book of the Fallen" series. Large: it's weighing in at close to 900 pages (trade paperback version). And complex: many of the plotlines that have begun in the past are continued here, some of them intertwining and some parting again later on.

To accommodate for the latter, Erikson stays with each plot thread only shortly at a time before switching to others (and coming back later). Here I have to say, that I don't know whether this style was the best choice, as (IMHO) it hurts comprehensibility more that it helps it.

To give you an idea how many plotlines there are in this book (since that could be seen as a spoiler, the following text has the same color as the background, so you have to select it with your mouse to read) : You're going to see:

• Captain Paran being back and kicking rather serious a** (you'll see what I mean)
• Karsa Orlong being his usual obnoxious self (i.e. 1.) being utterly arrogant and 2.) at the same time being totally correct with that assessment)
• the Malazan army(/armies) with their sappers and heavies (still being the comic relief Gimlis of the series) and Wickans,
• Apsalar,
• Leoman of the Flails,
• Heboric and Cutter,
• Icarium,
• Shadow Throne/Cotillion, Iskaral Pust and his spidery wife
• Trull Sengar and Onrack
• ... as well as some other known ones and a number of new characters as well.

This book was a highly entertaining read. For a book in the middle of a series (where there's often a slump in other serieseses) it's a fantastic one, IMO. If you like the "Malazan" series, well, go get it already(!) (if that's possible ATM where you're living, of course), there isn't anything else to say, really. Best ongoing fantasy series there is, In My Arrogant Opinion

[§ol]

For those who are still around here, Book 7 is officially finished and in the hands of the editors. Pegged for early release next year.

[§ol]

Reviews are coming back saying Reaper's Gale is the best book since Memories of Ice, so I am completely stoked.

Also, on poorer news, The Bonehunters cover for the US is awful.

[§ol]

Anyone in the UK read Reaper's Gale and have a non-spoiler review? I preordered from amazon.ca, not realizing that it was being released later.

[TheMightyRincewind]

Well, I finished "Reaper's Gale" yesterday evening (read it slowly), here are some quick impressions:

Without wanting to spoil anything, I have to at least say that the story takes place in the Empire of Lether, just like "Midnight Tides". And that was a problem for me, as I liked that book least of all of this series. There just weren't any characters I could really identify with.

The first half of "Reaper's Gale" continues to have that problem for me: Erikson does his utmost to portray the Letherii leaders as cruel, repulsive b*st*rds (and not really family friendly bunnyslippers, as the forum software wants to insist) with descriptions of grisly violence, rape, torture and so on (and the Edur aren't particularly sympathetic characters, either). In addition to that, seemingly everyone seems to have those deep philosophical thoughts, with paragraph after paragraph of inner monologue. That would be OK for characters you are genuinely interested in, but as that often wasn't the case, I began to skim through those parts after a few hundred pages.

So, suffice it to say, I wasn't exactly excited about the first half of the book.

The second half definitely improves considerably, with new elements being introduced, and the "sense of wonder" part (like the warrens, secrets etc.) playing a much bigger role. Saying much more about it probably would be too much of a spoiler, so I won't.

So my bottom line would be:

First half of the book: I would have been happier if Erikson hald trimmed that part considerably. That's not to say, that it doesn't have its moments, but too much focus on characters I didn't really care for.

Second half of the book: Much better, brings back some of the fascination of the earlier books for me.

Overall: I wouldn't rate it as one of the best books of the series.

Oh, and if you've read "Bonehunters" you already know that Karsa Orlong is on his way to Lether. And I really think Karsa Orlong manages to be a pain in the a** wherever he appears.

[§ol]

Well, I finished "Reaper's Gale" yesterday evening (read it slowly), here are some quick impressions:

Without wanting to spoil anything, I have to at least say that the story takes place in the Empire of Lether, just like "Midnight Tides". And that was a problem for me, as I liked that book least of all of this series. There just weren't any characters I could really identify with.

The first half of "Reaper's Gale" continues to have that problem for me: Erikson does his utmost to portray the Letherii leaders as cruel, repulsive b*st*rds (and not really family friendly bunnyslippers, as the forum software wants to insist) with descriptions of grisly violence, rape, torture and so on (and the Edur aren't particularly sympathetic characters, either). In addition to that, seemingly everyone seems to have those deep philosophical thoughts, with paragraph after paragraph of inner monologue. That would be OK for characters you are genuinely interested in, but as that often wasn't the case, I began to skim through those parts after a few hundred pages.

I concur, although I don't think it grated on me quite as much as it did. Honestly. I think it has more to do with the fact that Erikson seems to just have more fun writing the Malazan marines. Their segments of the books just seem so much more entertaining. Of course, it also helps that anytime you see the marines you know something is going to happen.

The second half definitely improves considerably, with new elements being introduced, and the "sense of wonder" part (like the warrens, secrets etc.) playing a much bigger role. Saying much more about it probably would be too much of a spoiler, so I won't.

So my bottom line would be:

First half of the book: I would have been happier if Erikson hald trimmed that part considerably. That's not to say, that it doesn't have its moments, but too much focus on characters I didn't really care for.

Second half of the book: Much better, brings back some of the fascination of the earlier books for me.

Once more, agree overall. I do find it disappointing that some of the sections ultimately seem relatively pointless - consider the Awl. It amounts to finding out that the K'Chain Che'malle are active again, where the Barghast went, and a certain touching scene.

Also, a tad too much deus ex machina when it came to dealing with the Holds. That being said, I really did like Beak.

Overall: I wouldn't rate it as one of the best books of the series.

Eh, it's not one of the worse books in the series, I think. I need to re-read 4-7 again, as I find I appreciate the books a lot more on the second time through, especially in terms of remembering who's who.

Oh, and if you've read "Bonehunters" you already know that Karsa Orlong is on his way to Lether. And I really think Karsa Orlong manages to be a pain in the a** wherever he appears.

How can anyone not like Karsa's lovable arrogance?

[TheMightyRincewind]

Hey, the "Toll of the Hounds" prologue gets posted and nobody tells me?

[§ol]

Hey, the "Toll of the Hounds" prologue gets posted and nobody tells me?

Yeah, sorry.

We've got covers, too

Reaper's Gale for the US



Toll of the Hounds for the UK:



One of the better ones for the US, if still very generic. I like the UK one.

[Kunio_kun]

I read Gardens of the Moon a year or two back and didn't care for it. A few months back, I re-read it, since I've heard the series is actually popular.

But Gardens of the Moon just feels so generic. Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that, but hell, nothing stands out in my mind.

Maybe there's a decent story somewhere, but the execution just falls flat and the most the characters inspire in me is a deep cynicism accompanied by a rocket like upwards rolling motion of the eyeballs. I get this feeling that it's too rushed. Like, these characters, the Empress' Hand, Dujek, Whiskeyjack, Lord of Moon's Spawn, all these dudes are supposed to be impressive because of the past and all their off-screen accomplishments, but I never got it. All this stuff of the Empire's past, the Warrens, the gods, and I never get that epic feeling, just a sense that "This happened a while back and it was supposedly rad."

Ok, confession time. I pretty much stopped reading Gardens the second time through when I reached the point describing Tattersail and that Lieutenant guy being attracted to each other through some shared sense of danger. The awkwardness was just too much by that point.

[§ol]

I read Gardens of the Moon a year or two back and didn't care for it. A few months back, I re-read it, since I've heard the series is actually popular.

But Gardens of the Moon just feels so generic. Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that, but hell, nothing stands out in my mind.

Maybe there's a decent story somewhere, but the execution just falls flat and the most the characters inspire in me is a deep cynicism accompanied by a rocket like upwards rolling motion of the eyeballs. I get this feeling that it's too rushed. Like, these characters, the Empress' Hand, Dujek, Whiskeyjack, Lord of Moon's Spawn, all these dudes are supposed to be impressive because of the past and all their off-screen accomplishments, but I never got it. All this stuff of the Empire's past, the Warrens, the gods, and I never get that epic feeling, just a sense that "This happened a while back and it was supposedly rad."

Ok, confession time. I pretty much stopped reading Gardens the second time through when I reached the point describing Tattersail and that Lieutenant guy being attracted to each other through some shared sense of danger. The awkwardness was just too much by that point.

Not every series will be for everyone, obviously. I greatly enjoy this series. Gardens of the Moon, however, does suffer from a number of issues. First off, it went through multiple iterations as different formats, including movie script and dungeons and dragons campaign before becoming a novel. The core of the novel - what happens in Darujistan - was the original story, and the beginning was added as part of the novelization - there's an obvious flow difference in the different sections. Furthermore, it was written 8 years prior to the rest of the novels, and Erikson became a notably better author in the meantime. Couple that with the style of tossing people in without the cliched stupid character who someone has to explain everything to (and therefore to the reader as well), and well...it makes a rather daunting entrance to a new series.

I'd say this is far and away my favorite "still running" series, though

[Kunio_kun]

Heh, a D&D campaign? Seriously? That explains a few things. I went to read reviews of the book after posting yesterday, and noticed a recurring criticism in that it felt like an overblown D&D campaign.

[§ol]

Ayep

The world of the Malazan tales was created (in rudimentary form) by Steven Erikson and Ian Cameron Esslemont in 1982 as a backdrop for role-playing games using a highly modified version of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. By 1986, when the GURPS system was released and adopted by Steven Erikson and Esslemont, the world was closer to its current scope. It was then developed into a movie script entitled Gardens of the Moon. When this was not successful, the two writers agreed to each write a series set in their shared world. Steven Erikson wrote Gardens of the Moon as a novel in the period 1991-92 but it was not published until 1999. In the meantime, he wrote several non-fantasy novels.

[TheMightyRincewind]

()

[TheMightyRincewind]

So I finished reading through Erikson's newest novel "Toll the Hounds" recently. This book can't be called light reading material by any means - it weighs in at a hefty 923 pages - the first 700 or so of which are dedicated to a buildup to the most "epic" (and maybe tragic for some) finale of the whole series to date.
Overall, the author is painting a grim picture of human society in his fantasy world (or, at least, in Darujhistan and Black Coral on the Genabackan continent, where most of it takes place), interspersed with the occasional bits of humor. That's nice and all - but there's only so much pondering on broken individuals, arrogance, malice and cruelty born of suffering you want to read. In these parts the descriptions of what's actually happening takes the back seat, sometimes only implicated, embedded within the author's meandering, philosophical thoughts.

When he begins to actually advance the overarching plot of the novel, the change of style is very apparent: slow and thoughtful descriptions of human failings and heroism on the small scale make way for furious action where powerful beings clash.

When I read through the extra long buildup part of the book (where at least *some* things actually do happen, on a smaller scale, even emotional things for readers who got attached to some of the series' characters) I admit to begin skimming whole paragraphs after some time, thinking what eff the author was thinking writing a buildup twice the lenth of the average novel of other authors.

After having read the climax, I tend to think all of this was justified to give the right balance to the book, though. There isn't anything to reveal about the last section without spoiling too much - so read it for yourself.

Overall, although I was stunned by its climax, "Toll of the Hounds" isn't one of my favourite books of the series. It's for the most part too slow and I finally wish to read more about Captain Paran who I always thought was the main protagonist of the "Malazan Book of the Fallen" series and again (apart from a short cameo) doesn't appear in the book.

Karsa gets some remarkable moments of humility in "Toll the Hounds", though -- who would've ever thought...

[Arassuil]

My wife gave me a paperback of Gardens of the Moon after I read through Glen Cook's Black Company series, and so far I like it. Granted I'm only into the first quarter, but so far it seems to have a good feel. I'll post more about it as I get into it more.

[Elwë Singollo]

I made it about midway through the eighth book and just couldn't take it any more. I got tired of the disjointed narrative that never seemed to get anywhere. I got tired on an endless parade of characters who received minimal development, if at all, disappeared for long stretches of time, and often just weren't very interesting. I've heard the series referred to as "ambitious". Overall I think Erikson just couldn't decide what story he wanted to write, and instead of planning several different groups of books tried to lump it all together into one. If he had approached the whole thing as three or four loosely related trilogies I think it would have been much better, because I think he had some great ideas and as a world-builder was first rate.

[Scribbles]

I'm nearly through "Gardens of the Moon" . . . and I'm sitting on the fence between loving it or hating it . . .

On one hand I can admire Erickson's towering ambition and the sheer scale of everything he throws at the reader right away. It's obvious he has a seriously complete "world" built, along with its attendant countries, creatures, empires, histories, societies, military groups, varieties of magic, mages and mystic practices, etc., etc.

On the other hand I'm struggling with seventeen million references to people and/or things that are not really explained nor placed in context except (maybe) through widely scattered references in conversations between a huge crowd of characters (eg: The Tiste Andii, The T'lan Imass, Warrens (and more irritatingly, the dizzying array of different "types" of them), the Jaghut, the entire panthenon of "gods" and their 'ascendants' and on and on ad infinitum). Heck, the Malazan Empire itself isn't even alluded to on the map of Genabackis provided and entire legions of other Genabackian place names that are mentioned in the text aren't on the map either.

I understand the concept of generating excitement and interest by dropping the reader into the thick of things right away, but this is turning out to be a case of not being able to see the forest for the trees. The forest being the main plot and characters and the trees being a hundred other minor sub-plots and their associated swarm of buzzing actors that just pop up willy nilly like mushrooms after a long period of rain.

I'll give the author and this series the ol' college try however, mostly because I made the mistake of buying the first three books right off . . .

((However, If I don't feel less like a drowning victim by the end of the third book, I doubt I'll read any further.))

[SilverScribe]

If he had approached the whole thing as three or four loosely related trilogies I think it would have been much better, because I think he had some great ideas and as a world-builder was first rate.

I couldn't agree more. In fact, I did just that (in a more long-winded way, which might be considered apropos, after all ) in the "What are you reading now?" Thread . . .

However, as the series is advancing I'm finding that the author might be including too many story arcs spread across each of the successive books. (In other words the whole thing is getting very bloated. )

He leaves one or two main "groups" with their storyline at the end of one book, but then jumps to, introduces and follows another main group and their storyline in the next book. The book after that then returns to the first group but again, the next book starts off with yet another group of players and their storyline and action aaaaaand so on and so forth. So now I'm in the 6th book, where he's added a few more distinct and different story arcs with their cast of characters but also has gone back with short scenes for some previous groups/storylines from the earlier books . . . all of which is making following the ever-growing cast / action / storylines more like work than entertainment. And as of this posting, he's up to Book #10, where the closing line of the description reads "And so, in a far away land and beneath indifferent skies, the final cataclysmic chapter in the extraordinary 'Malazan Book of the Fallen' begins. The final chapter - begins??? *sigh*

Personally? I wish he'd structured this entire series as three distinct but related sub-series; which would have made it a heck of a lot easier to absorb. However, since I'm not an award-winning or gazillionaire published author my ownself, that remains just my humble opinion . . .

I'm torn between now wanting to find out how the entire, intertwined, convoluted, twisted pile o' pig guts comes out, and being just too tired to make the effort to slog through another 8 thousand pages to get there.