A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin

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Postby hamlet » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:36 am

Yes, I fear an Elves at Helm's Deep or Osgiliation the most. I dread them in fact.

But for the most part, it's very minor looking things. Jon Snow, for instance, is nothing at all like I think of him. It rubs me the wrong way. Caitlin's actress doesn't bother me much, actually, as I always imagined her a little care worn but still very beautiful.

It's mostly a fear of what could happen that gets me. What atrocities might be visited upon the story in the name of "cool" that I worry about.

Oh, and don't get me wrong, Emilia is very lovely, she's just doesn't fit my image of Danny in the slightest. The original actress was a better fit IMO.
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Postby krawler » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:18 pm

Considering that the author is giving his personal stamp of approval to this project, is credited as a co-executive producer, and has even written one of the episodes, I highly doubt there will be any significant changes that make no sense. He's said that the children's ages have been moved up a bit for practicality's sake, and that some minor character roles are being combined or delayed until the next season to keep things simpler for the medium. Apart from stuff like that, I see no need to worry about changes to the story.
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Postby MaxPower » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:20 pm

When I read "The Lord Of The Rings", I never pictured Frodo Baggins as a doe-eyed Teen Beat coverboy. But that's what we got in the movies.

What are ya gonna do? It's best to just roll with this kind of stuff as they aren't casting with your imagination in mind, anyway.

It might be a good thing to come to terms with the changes and embrace the series, if you're interested in seeing this story concluded. I've heard it asserted elsewhere-don't know if it's true or not-that Martin has shared the outline of the story's conclusion with the show's head honchos. As progress on the book series is downright glacial-so many cons to attend, so many football games to watch!-a small screen conclusion may be the only conclusion we get.
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Postby hamlet » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:56 am

MaxPower wrote:When I read "The Lord Of The Rings", I never pictured Frodo Baggins as a doe-eyed Teen Beat coverboy. But that's what we got in the movies.


Do not speak of the abominations that are the Peter Jackson LOTR movies! Horrible horrible things.

It might be a good thing to come to terms with the changes and embrace the series, if you're interested in seeing this story concluded. I've heard it asserted elsewhere-don't know if it's true or not-that Martin has shared the outline of the story's conclusion with the show's head honchos. As progress on the book series is downright glacial-so many cons to attend, so many football games to watch!-a small screen conclusion may be the only conclusion we get.


Oh bite your tounge. If the story sees conclusion only on the television screen, I might actually cry.
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Postby MaxPower » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:04 am

Yeah, the thought of Martin never finishing is pretty depressing, but the possibility seems more likely as the years slip by. Remember the note at the end of "Feast" in which Martin says the followup "will be along next year."?

Well, "next year" was four years ago, and there's still no book.

A completed "Song Of Ice And Fire" series by George R.R. Martin-televison producer, anthology editor, collectible huckster extraordinaire-well, that prospect seems like the real fantasy sometimes.
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Postby hamlet » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:21 pm

I don't know. I get the impression that the vast majority of the delay was caused by the fact that his original conception of the book just didn't work and he effectivley had to start over from scratch on it.

Might be that's wishful thinking, but it's thinking that works out logically.
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Postby MaxPower » Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:36 am

Victoria Cole over at Winter Is Coming extracted the following quote from a podcast with GRRM.

“When the book comes out, people may read it and say “What the hell was the problem?” The reality of a writer’s life is, you work on these things, especially as long as I’ve been working on this book, and you get to a point where you’re not sure if you’re seeing the forest for the trees. You’re obsessing over these small details, and you’re trying to get everything not just good, but great, and you’re rewriting and you’re changing things and reordering things and restructuring things, and there comes a point where you say “Am I really improving it here, or am I just spinning my wheels and going round and round in a circle?”

The entire podcast is here:

http://www.televisionzombies.com/2010/1 ... -r-martin/

"Am I really improving it here, or am I just spinning my wheels and going round and round in a circle?" He asks himself a good question!

"Finish the book, George."
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July 12, 2011!

Postby TreeMos » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:20 am

Dance of Dragons will be published on July 12th, 2011! So spake James Hibberd of ew.com and Grrm backed it up this morning.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/198122.html

True, the book is technically not done yet but as of a week ago George said he had only 3 chapters left to write with 2 of those almost done.

July isn't terribly close, but all I really have to do is make it till April and let HBO distract me for the rest of the wait :)
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Postby hamlet » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:09 pm

:shock: :evilaugh:

HooRah!
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Postby MaxPower » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:37 pm

*pumps fist in the air*

Hodor!
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Postby SilverScribe » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:47 am

Knock knock. Who's there? Devil. Devil who? Devil's advocate. :P:D


While the news is encouraging and positive (and that's assuming it's also true), then my next thought (after a hearty Hooorah! of my own) is . . . will we end up in the same pickle at the end of Dances with Dragons as we did with Feast for Crows?

i.e: an as-yet unresolved story line that is left dangling with the express intent of "another book" . . .

:D:D:D
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Postby TreeMos » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:06 am

Silly Devil, that part of the whole fun/curse of reading fantasy! It rarely ends in just one book. And the next one is always at least a year off. It's been known for some time that DwD is only the 5th book of a minimal 7-book series so there are no surprises there. The only real question is will the next one take the early ASOIaF 2-3 year gap to complete or the post-Storm of Swords 5-6 year gap. The optimist in me hopes that he finally worked out a permanent way around the continuity problems that caused him to re-write and get stalled on so much of DwD. So he now has a clear and much easier path to the end. But no, I'm not quite ready to bet large sums of money on that :P Get back to me in mid-2013 or so.
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Postby hamlet » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:51 am

Silly Devil indeed. The series is already intended to hit 7 books (kind of appropriate ne?), so of course there will be unresolved plot lines.

But yes, I fear things might turn sour in the book series and we'll get shafted as fans. But it's not a great fear.

My bigger worry is that hte show will start affecting the books. Don't care how good the show is, keep the books separate!
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Postby TreeMos » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:06 am

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Postby SmaugsBane » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:32 am

So I picked up GoT last month when I needed something to read on vacation and became thoroughly enthralled. Oddly enough, I actually hadn't checked to see if there were any film versions until I was well into CoK. Honestly, I don't know how the HBO production escaped me but I'm glad I read at least 1 1/2 of the books before I saw the actors so that I could have a chance to form my own versions of the characters in my mind. Now I've just started SoS and will soon be in the same boat as you all, waiting for DwD. I'm so glad I didn't have to wait as long as you all, though.

Anyway, I may be poking my head in here from time to time to ask for/offer an opinion. Especially on the HBO series, since I don't have HBO.

Hey Scribbles, this story has lingered on as long as RtR has with no conclusion in sight! HA! :thppt: (Love You!)
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Postby TreeMos » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:08 pm

It's happy dancing (with dragons) time! (Kong was his oft-used metaphor for the 5th book)

http://grrm.livejournal.com/212603.html

And in case you have any doubts, this twitter feed from the folks at westeros.org provides extra confirmation:

http://mobile.twitter.com/westerosorg
Last edited by TreeMos on Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby hamlet » Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:00 am

Yeah, I got myself in trouble here in the office letting out an allmighty Yawp when I read the news. The kids here today for "bring your child to hell day" looked frightened.
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Postby Hawke321 » Mon May 02, 2011 3:59 pm

i hear thats a good book i want to read it :)
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Postby SilverScribe » Thu May 12, 2011 8:50 am

SmaugsBane wrote:Hey Scribbles, this story has lingered on as long as RtR has with no conclusion in sight! HA! :thppt: (Love You!)

Yes, but George has not had to deal with co-writers that disappear for long periods of time and then drop out of the story writing altogether. Ha! :P:P :D:D:D (Love you too darlin', ;) and LONG TIME NO SEE!! {{sssneaky hug}} )

One book is now FIVE books???? LOLOL can you spell "cha-ching"?

Actually, it made a bizarre kind of sense when I read how he (or the publisher) is planning to break the book up into separate tomes, one for each POV. It will definitely be a departure from his original story-telling pattern, so I'm not sure how well the transition to this style of delivery will work. But over the long run, as long as the story gets told, I guess it won't really matter.

And yes, I'm enough of a fan that I'll probably get the whole handful. *sigh*

:D:D:D
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Postby krawler » Thu May 12, 2011 4:40 pm

Forgive me Scribbles if I'm misinterpreting your post, I just woke up and may still be a bit bleary, but you're joking about that, right? You do know that blog post was made on April 1st?
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Postby SilverScribe » Fri May 13, 2011 8:26 pm

krawler wrote:Forgive me Scribbles if I'm misinterpreting your post, I just woke up and may still be a bit bleary, but you're joking about that, right? You do know that blog post was made on April 1st?


Ah, now I could laugh and say "oh of course I know that and of course I know it was a joke!"

But the truth is, I was more asleep than you were . . . :blush:

Excuse me while I go find my anti-stupid pills. ;)

:D:D:D
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Postby krawler » Sat May 14, 2011 5:51 am

No worries, it happens to the best of us. And you can still laugh about it. :)

For us Tolkien fans, especially, that 'announcement' certainly had that all-important grain of truth in the breaking up of a really long book. So, I can see how he might have gotten you. ;)
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Postby TreeMos » Sun May 22, 2011 8:57 am

On Thursday GRRM made a long and very informative Not A Blog post about the years of work that went into making A Dance With Dragons. Definitely worth a read unless you are trying to completely avoid spoilers concerning the book. Though the spoilers mainly involve which characters won't be a viewpoint in the book and who might be one in the subsequent Winds Of Winter.

As expected, the book is going to be huge though still a few pages shorter then Storm of Swords. The key part:

DANCE took a lot longer than I wanted it to, but I think it's a better tale for all the time and blood and sweat that went into it. In the end, though, it will be you guys who are the judge of that.


For the rest go read his post. I just hope the new monkey he's palling around with stays small and cute.
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Postby hamlet » Mon May 23, 2011 7:26 am

That post inspired me to start my . . . 4th? . . . re-read of the series.

Well, that and the pending release of DWD. Can't freakin' wait till July.
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Postby Frelga » Mon May 23, 2011 7:44 am

Hm. I got a few chapters into the Game of Thrones, courtesy of Kindle samples. It went up to the point when the king comes to visit Ned. It was good, but I found myself quite capable of putting it down without ordering the book. And that's unusual for this bookaholic. Does it get better?
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Postby hamlet » Mon May 23, 2011 8:02 am

Frelga wrote:Hm. I got a few chapters into the Game of Thrones, courtesy of Kindle samples. It went up to the point when the king comes to visit Ned. It was good, but I found myself quite capable of putting it down without ordering the book. And that's unusual for this bookaholic. Does it get better?


Well, yeah.

Put it this way, the sample is only going to give you a bare taste of what's going on in that book. It's about 700 pages long, and the actual plot, that which drives all the later books and everything that's going on, doesn't even start to get uncovered until about page 500.

We're now 4 books in, and even now I couldn't tell you everything that's happening and what it means.

Very dense stuff. Deceptively so, actually.

Yes, it gets better.
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Postby Frelga » Mon May 23, 2011 10:14 am

Thanks, hamlet. I think my experience is an artifact of this multiple-POV approach. I've seen other authors do it successfully (Godfather comes to mind), tying multiple threads together, but it lacks the gripping power of "I wonder what happens to this charrie I care about."

I guess I'll give it a try.
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Postby hamlet » Mon May 23, 2011 10:35 am

Frelga wrote:Thanks, hamlet. I think my experience is an artifact of this multiple-POV approach. I've seen other authors do it successfully (Godfather comes to mind), tying multiple threads together, but it lacks the gripping power of "I wonder what happens to this charrie I care about."

I guess I'll give it a try.


It's really a modified "Rashamon" story. Lliterally, a story from multiple viewpoints. You dont' get "the story," you get it from half a dozen, or a dozen different people who have their own viewpoints and slant on things, and it strongly colors what you receive. A bit like examining a diamond one or two facets at a time, but never pulling back far enough to view the gem as a whole.

It is a little disconcerting at first, but it becomes easier once you get used to it. It also doesn't help that there are three or four different stories going on that only occasionally intersect with each other, though that has largely changed at the end of the fourth book in a dramatic way. Or, will change in the 5th or 6th book. Maybe. Kinda.

It's complicated.

If you want simpler, more accessible stories, I'd recommend the "Dunk and Egg" short stories by the same author. Same universe, same "story," but about 85 years prior to the main novels. They're a little lighter and easier to digest and focus on a single point of view, a sort of everydude.
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Postby Frelga » Mon May 23, 2011 11:44 am

The complexity of the plot is not an issue for me, but I do prefer character-driven stories. Actually, I insist on both. Otherwise, I get a so-what feeling, either with intricate plot and characters I don't care about, or with interesting characters who don't do anything.

I'm not far enough into this book to make a judgment, though. It may still all come together.

So, for those who read and liked, who are your favorite characters?
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Postby hamlet » Mon May 23, 2011 11:58 am

Actually, the story is extremely character driven. It's just that in the first 100 pages or so, you aren't going to get much to latch onto. Things are far too complicated with that.

The simplest answer I can give is that there are no "characters," but these are "people" instead. Aren't any heroes, or bad guys, or anything like that. Just people with various motivations and goals that interact.

And I can't actually tell you my favorite character without spoiling anything. :P
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