Terry Goodkind "Sword of Truth" serie

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Postby halplm » Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:16 am

Someday, I'll find something that TP and I disagree on, but so far, that is not the case.<BR><BR>I forget if I responded to this thread yet, but if I did, I'm probably repeating myself... oh well.<BR><BR>I too, liked the books all the way through FOTF, and then haven't been able to get back into them enough to even get through the later books. I have reread the first few again a few times, as they are great. I particularly like the second, and FOTF.<BR><BR>I find it interesting that the refuses to "write like a Tolkien clone" as his forward in the first book spoke of his desire to create a fantasy book that was really good, like Tolkien. Ironically, this was what made me want to read the book, and what I automatically compared it too while reading. It was good. NOWHERE NEAR Tolkien of course, as the characters are kind of shallow, sometimes quite dumb, and the "Darth Vader as father" device is just plain cheasy <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>.<BR><BR>However, the settings, the world, the peoples, are all very interesting.<BR><BR>I think TG has lost sight of why he started writing the books, and the quality has suffered accordingly. The fact that he can't see that himself, shows a serious ego problem.
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Postby Rebecca » Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:22 pm

<i>I was a huge fan of his, even considered him a role model.</i><BR><BR>Me too. I remember at one of my college interviews (before most of his new books had come out, if not before Soul of the Fire) I was asked something along the lines, if you could meet anyone today, who would it be? Well, first of all I was a bit thrown off, as my other college interviewers hadn't cared about stuff like that <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0> but the first person that popped into my head was Terry Goodkind. Probably had something to do with just reading one of his books, but still- he was the person I said. <BR><BR>Now, no thanks. Wouldn't even want to meet him, much less him over other, more deserving, people.
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Postby Ellienor » Thu Feb 05, 2004 11:30 am

Halplm, why don't you just fess up. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> I know you felt alone in m00bies what with all the revisionists and all, and needed a friend. It's ok, we understand. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR>
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Postby halplm » Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:12 pm

Oh I'll stand my ground with the Revisionists, don't you worry, I just have to have my say elsewhere on the forums every once and a while <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby tolkienpurist » Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:29 pm

halplm - I've thought there have been some things we didn't see quite eye to eye on, but you're right, it's very close most of the time. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> Should we test this in Manwe? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Well, as satisfying as it is to see that others share my thoughts about Goodkind, I'm going to try to get this slightly back on topic with a question about the books. In Book II, when Srs. Grace and Elizabeth, the two Sisters of the Dark who accompany Sister Verna, die - why is there no sign that the Keeper has taken them? Even if they did not yet have Subtractive Magic, shouldn't we have seen all of the usual symptoms that are always after observed when a Sister of the Dark dies and the Keeper takes them? That's one thing that has always bothered me.<BR><BR>- TP<BR>
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Postby Nerdanel » Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:07 pm

You cannot expect perfect consistency in a story that he obviously made up as he went along.
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Postby tolkienpurist » Thu Feb 05, 2004 11:56 pm

But is this a contradiction or is there an explanation? That's all I was asking.
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Postby Ellienor » Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:03 am

Hmmm, didn't think of that when I read the book. Can't really think of a good reason, other than plot device #4567. Perhaps it is the keeper's choice to reveal himself, and he knew that if it was apparent that these sisters were allied with him, there wasn't a chance of getting Richard? <BR><BR>OK, what's with always wrapping up the big finale in about 2 pages after hundreds of pages of build-up? Blink and you'll miss it. <BR><BR>Will Richard and Kahlan ever get it on? (been a little reluctant to commit to the next few tomes)<BR><BR>BTW Halplm, there are sure some crotchety Revisionists in m00bies! i was surprised at some of the ungentlemanliness directed at you there. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0>
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Postby tolkienpurist » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:20 am

Crotchety Revisionists? Aaaaaaaaah hide! Actually no, we must stand and fight - only then will we defeat them! Wait, you were talking to halplm - sorry, my fault <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Richard and Kahlan - I'm figuring that at some point there almost has to be a whole book dedicated to that, in which they do actually have sex, Kahlan gets pregnant, and then they have to deal with fighting Shota. That's one I'm actually looking forward to, although by then Richard's speeches may have become so long that it ends up that he defeats Shota by putting her to sleep. <BR><BR>Which books did you guys like the best?<BR>In terms of just overall story, I like Stone of Tears the best.<BR>Even though it's somewhat preachy, I have to say I liked Faith of the Fallen. We weren't getting unswallowable lectures yet, and the Nicci plot line was for me interesting, fascinating, and engaging. Also, in general, TG tends to have good characters good and bad bad. Thus, seeing both Nicci and Alessandra return from the Dark to the Light was a pleasant change. I'm very interested in what Nicci's role in future books will be - figuring it's a major asset to have a Sister with Subtractive Magic, very knowledgeable about it, on Richard's side. <BR><BR>- TP
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Postby Ellienor » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:26 am

TP, do you mean to say in the whole series so far (I've read two, but there's got to be at least 5 or 6 now, and many many thousands of pages).. ..<BR><BR>.....they have not yet gotten together <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0> ????<BR><BR>I liked the story in book 2, esp. the battle where they were all painted white, but didn't like that Prindin was a baneling <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif"border=0> where did THAT come from?
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Postby tolkienpurist » Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:01 pm

No, they've gotten together. They actually do for the first time at the end of book two, but in "another world". They do, I believe, for the first time in this world at the end of book 4/beginning of book 5. I don't want to spoil it for you, but what I was referring to is the fact that Kahlan has not successfully become pregnant. She does once but loses the child. After that, they voluntarily decide to wait for a while because of circumstances that are explained later. To go into more detail would spoil later parts of the series. So, they haven't had to deal with Shota yet. I'm not sure if you know what I mean by that, because I think that gets explained at the start of Book 3, BOTF.<BR><BR>There are eight books currently in the series; the 9th comes out Jan 2005.<BR><BR>Note - if you want me to explain what I mean by the above, I'll be happy to, but didn't want to spoil it for you if you wanted to be surprised <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>- TP
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Postby Ellienor » Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:34 pm

I'm tempted TP to take you up on that offer. I could save many many hours of my life that way....<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I'll try book 3 and get back to you.
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Postby Gilvala » Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:31 pm

Hang on... there's 8 books???? (I'm relying on my local library for this series and so far I haven't read the first one because it's not there <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif"border=0>) I think I read up to book 6.... but there's 8 books?????
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Postby Creslin » Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:44 pm

#7, I believe, is called "Pillars of Creation". #8 is "Naked Empire". Both of these disappointed me. For one thing, PoC hardly even mentions the two main characters at all, and the eigth was a little weak. ( I may have this confused - is PoC *8, and NE the ninth? I haven't looked at my books for a while...<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>edited after reading last several posts
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Postby Matrim » Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:57 pm

Book 7 and 8 have been disappointing. I didnt even finish book 8 because I was so bored with it. he I got my hands on a copy og the Lone Drow by Salvatore and book 8 is now gathering dust. <BR><BR>Im still debating on weather I want to continue wih this series. It seems as if it is taking a turn like the Wheel of Time Series and becoming more about books sold then quality. Just my two cents.
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Postby Hobbituk » Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:37 am

About the subtractive magic thing...I think as Nerdanel said, it's just a case of he hadn't thought of it yet. However, I suppose there are plausable (if exceedingly reaching) explanations that you can come up with.<BR><BR>I enjoyed certain aspects of "FOTF", in particular the character arc of Nicci and how Richard managed to turn everything round to his advantage through being clever and working hard. However, the big "anti communist" agenda started getting to me a bit. Also, it did seem a bit too much like "SOT" in terms of plot...Richard is kidnapped by sisters, taken to Old World, makes friends with everyone and upsets balance, Kahlan rushes to meet him there and they are reunited in the last few pages.<BR><BR>And why does he take so bloody long to get a book out?
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Postby Celebriel_Esgaledhel » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:06 pm

Does anyone know what the next book is supposed to be called? i hope he picks up the pace a bit for it - I agree, the last two books were disappointing. Good, but not what i expected, considering his other books. The first few of a series are always the best.
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Postby Hobbituk » Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:00 am

There's just been an announcement on his site about the next three books.<BR><BR>They will be "The Chainfire Trilogy" and will introduce a storyline that will take three books to resolve at which point the series will end. It will also tie up the whole business about Jagang and The Order.<BR><BR>So there you have it!
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Postby Celebriel_Esgaledhel » Fri Apr 16, 2004 10:06 am

*groans* Not <em>more</em> on Jagang!<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-rolleyes.gif"border=0> <BR><BR>What is his website called?
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Postby Hobbituk » Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:29 am

Actually, it's not really his site...but it seems to be the "official" fan site.<BR><BR><BR><a href='http://www.terrygoodkind.com' target=_blank>TerryGoodkind.Com</a><BR><BR>Be warned, the webmaster is REALLY irritating...he has this way of being really defensive and abrupt about things. Oh and he can't spell either.
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Postby Celebriel_Esgaledhel » Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:53 pm

Thanks!
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Postby Matrim » Fri Apr 23, 2004 3:29 pm

Thank goodness he is finally ending it. Only in three books to, now that is impressive, he has alot of loose ends to tie up. Well the begining and ending of the series are always the best so I guess Ill stick with the series then. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby shadowseer » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:00 pm

Yay! finally, a thread where people seem to know who TG is. i really like his series, but i think thats because i choose not to search to deeply past the books e.g TG's following of Ayn Rand(sp?), and some of his other controversial views. i enjoy the books for the thrill and have never been bored (even when reading Pillars of Creation), and cant wait for Chainfire.
i do have reservations about some of his work, but largely ive enjoyed it immensely. so much so that (dont hate me!) i joined up to their main fansite and met a lot of cool people. whats interesting to know is that they're having this exact same conversion, but about Tolkien.
and yes, Zedd the Adimin can get irritating.
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Postby BornofFantasy » Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:10 am

Goodkind in my opinion is very formulaic, I have to admit Wizards First Rule was decent and ncie start, even above average, yet as the series continues it deteriated for me, reaching rock botom with Pillars of Creation one of the top 5 worst novels in any genre EVER in my opinion. As the series progresses, he seems to turn "Mel Gibson" on me, starting to preach to the reader, intead of progressing with the story. If any want to read a simlair series, without all the nonesense, one that I think is better, but simlair in it's beginings try Robert Newcomb.

By the way, I just used your link and visited thier site...outside of perhaps 2 posters they have no clue in my opinion, Terry Goodkind is perhaps better then average in my opinion, no where near on the elite level or fantasy writers or even a level below..IMHO, one of the msot overatted authors, and series in the genre. I also agree with some assesments above as to the admin of the forum, just glancing at the board one would think it's mr. Goodkinds 7 year old son perhaps.
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Postby Tomalion » Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:23 pm

i've read all eight books so far and i have enjoyed every one of them, even pillers of creation. it wasnt as good as the others, but i still liked it. i dont know why everyone seems to not like naked empire though, i loved that one, especially the battle sequences. is it just because of the preaching? i didnt mind that, because i feel the same way about some of that stuff, and the way it related to the story made it interesting to read.
i've got chainfire reserved at barnes and noble when it comes out, and i cant wait to read it.
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Postby BornofFantasy » Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:26 pm

"is it just because of the preaching?"


No, it conincided with his preaching and a couple of interviews of him I read, where he came off as his book is something more then a fictional novel, some grand work, for Mr. Goodkind to shower his wisdom down on the populace. I thought it was absurd, I thougth this series was decent, but after I find out he was teaching me something, well...I never thought they were that smart of reads, just decent fantasy novels.
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Postby The,real,Maeglin » Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:29 am

I agree on the preaching part, that became annoying and I felt being lectured.

Someone who also gives his view, but in my opinion doing no more then that is Salvatore in his Drizzt saga. I even changed my way of thinking about what he wrote, but he starts his chapters with it ,but doesnt do more of it during the writing of the actual tale. Something Goodkind does, which makes it irritating to read.
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Postby BornofFantasy » Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:29 am

"Someone who also gives his view, but in my opinion doing no more then that is Salvatore in his Drizzt saga. "


The differnce in my opinion is in the nature of the views being displayed. With Goodkind I feel it's more of him using his novels as a platform to exhibit his views when they aren't very necessary to the storyline. In the RA Salvatore's Forgoten Realms work, it's more related to the story. For example, Drizzt (the main character) is a Drow, and in the setting thier is obvious racial issues that go along with being a Drow in the universe, both pressed on him by others, and his reaction to surfacers himself.

All that said I enjoy Salvatore more, particularly his Demon Wars work I believe is the best example of hi swriting, however, I do believe Goodkind offers more range, and perhaps talent as a writer.
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Postby The,real,Maeglin » Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:45 am

I agree with you, salvatore is an easy to read writer, but i can see that Goodkind is more "skilled"with words.

But that is what I meant, Salvatore didnt try to persuade you of his visions, he adds them to the story. With goodkind it feels he makes his story around his believes, or alters it as such in his later books.
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Postby undomiel » Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:33 am

And not only that, but the speeches that his character give make the books feel less realistic. The ending of the Pillars of Creation was absolutely ridiculous. :roll: There are far better ways to include your views in a book. In my opinion, the more subtle they are, the better and more effective they are.

Goodkind's writing style is OK. In book one he was just starting out and so I forgave him the horrible, horrible cliches all over the place and the *shudder* "secret smile of sharing" that seemed to pass between Richard and Kahlan EVERY OTHER PARAGRAPH. There were some very interesting and likeable characters so I enjoyed the book. In the next few books his writing and storytelling skills got better. I loved books 2-5. With Faith of the Fallen things started to go downhill. I wouldn't finish the series except that I really want to know how they're going to defeat Jagang. It seems that Goodkind had set them against an unbeatable enemy. I just pray that it won't be something ridiculous like Richard giving one of his speeches to Jagang who suddenly realizes that Richard is right and good and renounces evil. :roll:
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