Arthurian stuff (King Arthur-related)

[Morwenna]

Believe it or not, there are some scholars who believe the prototype of Camelot was indeed in southern Scotland, as a result of attempting to identify the historical figure on whom the legendary Arthur was based.

Arthurian fiction I've read:
Tennyson's Idylls of the King, and related poems
parts of Geoffrey of Monmouth
White--The Once and Future King
Stewart's first 3 books (I have The Wicked Day but haven't read it yet)
Charles Williams's Arthurian poetry
parts of Malory
parts of Chretien de Troyes
the Mabinogion material
Bradley--The Mists of Avalon (not the other one yet)
(author forgotten)--The Idylls of the Queen (about the insult to Guinevere, from Kay's point of view)
and some others I can't remember at the moment

I have the Lawhead books but haven't read them yet either.

Thay all have their good points and they're all quite different from each other!

[andurilwest]

I've acquired several books sicne I last posted, including The Lantern Bearers by Rosemary Sutcliffe, book one of the Warlord Chronicles, and since i was curious, The Mists of Avalon. Sutcliff is probably the most "audience-friendly". Cornwell, Bradley and Lawhead are all partisan, leaning towards one ideology or another, and while this isn't necessarily a bad thing (depends on the reader) it can turn people off.

I was turned off by Bradley - bad history, bad reputation. (I may be unfair.) Cornwell seems authentic, but may not be, since he says in the afterword that he basically took the element of a pagan/Christian conflict to the max, contrary to what historians say. Lawhead is totally Christian, with no such conflicts but toleration and co-existence! Probably exaggerating too. Lawhead's Merlin is rather... cool, though - as much a warrior as a seer, though that's toned down as Lawhead's story progresses; and, like Tolkien's Elves, eternally youthful, due to Atlantean(!) heritage.

[portia]

I haven't read "Mists of Avalon" but I have read a lot of other Bradley and I am not surprised that she had bad history. She also was not much for geography, as she proved in the "Darkover" books.

[Gungnir]

One of my favourite authors - the late lamented David Gemell - wrote two books based on the Arthur legends; 'Ghost King' and 'The Last Sword of Power'. Being written by Gemmell they are pertty good(although not his best) and form part of his 'Sipstrassi' sequence.

[andurilwest]

I forgot to mention "Ghost King", I have that too; the first of Gemmell's books I've read. Alright, though it's only loosely Arthurian. He could have polished it more - for much of the book one gets the impression of a vaguely-Arthurian-but-not-Britain then the main protagonist "Thuro" suddenly renames himself to the very specific "Uther Pendragon". A somewhat different name would have worked, like "Uthor Pandreik".

I probably should have started with "Legend" (Stan Lee endorsed it, see Amazon), but I haven't got a copy of that yet.

[Gungnir]

Legend (Gemell's first novel) is fantastic, possibly his best. The 'Troy' trilogy that he was working on at the time of his death is also outstanding. The two Uther/Arthur books are not quite up to the standard of his best works but still IMHO fairly entertaining.

[andurilwest]

I've acquired The Green Man by Henry Treece, which is a dark retelling of the original Hamlet story - a Jutlander prince Amleth avenges his father's murder by his uncle. Unferth from Beowulf plays the part of Polonius, Beowulf is himself involved, and Ophelia is Amleth's sister amd yet still his love interest. Arthur is involved at some point as he stays in Britain for a while. Interestingly, Amleth's father is named Vendil, fully Orvendil - a form of Earendel.

Also, In the Shadow of the Oak King by Courtway Jones - an odd mixture of Dark Age characters, moods and locales, and Malory names. The Sword in the Stone is blatantly trickery with Arthur in on the job.

Nice site (essay) with excerpts from various Arthur works: http://www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/badon/sambadon.htm

[andurilwest]

Here are three(!) Arthurian novels available online - apparently legally!

- Cian of the Chariots by William Babcock:

http://www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/cian.htm - hosted by the academic site above, this appears to be in the public domain as it was first published in 1898. With this in mind, its online availability is not that surprising.

- The Arthuriad of Catumandus by Frederick Lees:

http://www.arthuriadofcatumandus.com/index.php - seems the author has published it in print in 1996 but has made it available through this site.

- The Lame Dancer by Patrick McCormack:

http://www.cit.gu.edu.au/~s285238/LameDancer.pdf - seems this is a never-published sequel to two other books in print but the author released it online. Hosted by another academic site which includes a page reviewing some Arthurian fiction.

[Gandalf'sMother]

Believe it or not, there are some scholars who believe the prototype of Camelot was indeed in southern Scotland, as a result of attempting to identify the historical figure on whom the legendary Arthur was based.

Historical inquiry into this period has been so polluted and complicated by nationalism, that it is very difficult to see any research on it as unbiased, and as such, authoritative. Was Camelot in England or southern Scotland? I have no idea. All I do know is that none of the scholarship, so far, is convincing.

-GM

[Dave_LF]

I'd go a step further and say that the only kind of legitimate Arthurian scholarship is literary rather than historical. There's not much point asking where Camelot was until you've established that it was, or at least that it probably was.

[andurilwest]

This thread is about the fiction anyway. As you may already know, Camelot was introduced by Chretien de Troyes and developed by later authors. Geoffrey of Monmouth, writing earlier, gives Caerleon as Arthur's chief stronghold. Welsh traditions, probably the earliest, names the stronghold as "Celliwig", which just sounds... cooler. None of the authors I've read so far use Celliwig, usually preferring to "invent" Camelots for their stories, but The Green Man does use Caerleon. Like many authors, I think Arthur the Dark Age warband-leader is more interesting than Arthur the knight. In fact my interest in that kind of Arthurian stuff probably grew in response to the Bruckheimer-produced film, which I disliked.

[Ponyboy]

I know there's a lot of Arthurian fiction out there, with most of them having their own series.

EDIT: I'm looking for modern prose versions (thanks anyway for the poetry suggestions) preferably historical fiction.

For example:

- The Warlord Chronicles by Bernard Cornwell

- The Pendragon Cycle by Stephen Lawhead

- The Camulod Chronicles by Jack Whyte

- The Mists of Avalon and related titles by Marion Zimmer Bradley

- The books of Rosemary Sutcliff

- The Once and Future King, by T. H. White, of course

I know they're not all written in the same style, and some might be radically different from the others (like Zimmer Bradley's is to White's) but which of them, and what others, would you recommend? Thanks!

MAD MERLIN. I think J. Robert King wrote it.

[andurilwest]

As of this writing, in addition to books previously mentioned, I now own volumes I-IV of The Camulod Chronicles by Jack Whyte, Lancelot du Lethe by J. Robert King, Hawk of May by Gillian Bradshaw, The Dragon Queen by Alice Borchardt and Child of the Northern Spring by Persia Wooley. I've also read Hawk of May's first sequel Kingdom of Summer, found at a library. Bradshaw is excellent.

[andurilwest]

I have finally gotten hold of the Warlord Chronicles by Bernard Cornwell and Firelord by Parke Godwin.

While Cornwell writes the battles very well, probably best, I am slightly stunned by his barely-there usage of Bedivere and Kay, who are stalwart companions of Arthur in many retellings.

Godwin, unlike some other Arthurian authors, tells the story of Arthur in one book, and it is very good.

[Sammy_W]

I love reading about Arthurian legend so have enjoyed reading through this thread.
Another suggestion is 'the return of merlin' by Deepak Chopra. It swings back and forth between modern day and into the past with arthur.

[Morwenna]

I'm clearly way behind in my reading.

[Diamond of Long Cleeve]

Every Tolkien fan ought to discover the lyrical prose of Kevin Crossley-Holland. He writes medieval novels for young people which are utterly magical.

His Arthur Trilogy comprises The Seeing Stone, At the Crossing Places and King of the Middle March. I cannot recommend them highly enough. Running parallel to the narrative of 12th century Arthur (a thoroughly empathetic young hero) are the traditional legends, glimpsed by Arthur in his 'seeing stone'. Crossley-Holland effortlessly blends medieval realism with folklore and myth, and he evokes the Middle Ages with the heart of a poet.

The fourth in the series, Gatty’s Tale, features some of the characters from the Trilogy but doesn't incorporate the Arthurian mythos. It can easily be read as a standalone work in its own right. [Gatty is an orphaned peasant girl from the Welsh Marches who is invited to join the devout Lady Gwyneth’s band of pilgrims as they journey to Jerusalem in the year 1203. Gatty, like the other travellers, has her life changed forever through her pilgrimage experiences, which range from the exhilarating to the frightening, tragic and ultimately uplifting.]

Crossley-Holland is a fantastic writer. And, man, does he know his British folklore.

[Mithfânion]

I'll look into his work Diamond. I fear with YA that it will be too childish for me, but who knows, I'm always interested in good Arthurian reading.

[andurilwest]

I recently got my hands on The Road to Avalon by Joan Wolf, Gwenhyfar: The White Spirit by Mercedes Lackey and I am Mordred by Nancy Springer.

Finished Gwenhyfar - Historically oriented, magic-free yet again, nice use of Celtic stuff - three Guineveres, an impostor Guinevere, Guinevere's sister Gwenhyfach - and these all fit together. Got kind of bodice-ripping at parts though.

Starting on The Road to Avalon and I like it. Historically oriented, magic-free yet again, but this telling has twists of its own: Merlin is father to Igraine, Morgause and Morgan, and Morgan is Arthur's true love.

[andurilwest]

Got The Crimson Chalice by Victor Canning and Excalibur! by John Jakes and Gil Kane cheap on Amazon.

[andurilwest]

Got The White Raven by Diana Paxson and The Lovers by Kate Hawks, both about Tristan and Iseult.

[Morwenna]

Speaking of YA, I think that in general they're just as good as adult fiction (not "adult" fiction; let's keep that straight!! ) mainly because they're likely to be more tightly-edited and with more meat and less fat, if you know what I mean. Now, some of us like fat books (and I'm not just talking about page count!). But many people like lean, concise stories that still pack a punch. Older SF did that, back in the '60s and before. And many YA books still do.

[andurilwest]

A relatively recent trilogy by M. K. Hume (Dragon's Child, Warrior of the West, and The Bloody Cup) sounded promising, but according to a review the antagonist in the second book is named Glamdring the Saxon.

[Morwenna]

Who knows; it could be Saxon! You know JRRT!

[andurilwest]

I don't think I've mentioned For King and Country by Robert Asprin and Linda Evans. It's sci-fi with modern-day people inhabiting the bodies of Arthurian characters.

[andurilwest]

Picked up The Drawing of the Dark by Tim Powers at a used book sale. What a find.

[andurilwest]

WISHLIST, aka books I haven't got yet

All of these are pretty old and unlikely to be found in secondhand shops. But Hawk of May and its sequels by Gillian Bradshaw recently got reprinted.

King of the Lordless Country by Roy Turner

The Great Captains by Henry Treece

The Bear of Britain by Edward Frankland

Pendragon by William Faraday

Pendragon by Douglas Carmichael

The Pagan King by Edison Marshall

Bright-Helmed One by Jayne Viney

Men Went to Cattraeth by John James

Artorius Rex by John Gloag

I recommend The Mammoth Book of King Arthur by Mike Ashley as a nice guide to Arthurian stuff, including a list of Arthurian fiction that was very useful to me.

[andurilwest]

Add (The) Bright-Helmed One by Jayne Viney to that list.

[solicitr]

A truly splendid, if rather literary, take is The Coming of the King by Nikolai Tolstoy (yes, related to the Tolstoy; he is also the stepson of the late Patrick O'Brian). He manages to cover the "British" chapters in truly marvellous authentic-Mabinogion style, and the "Saxon" chapters in equally compelling (if anachronistic) Eddaic style.

[Aravar]

The Coming of the King is excellent, if a little hard going in the early chapters. It is Merlin rather than Arthur who is central.