Who said it - Shakespeare quotes

What other authors do Tolkien fans enjoy? Come on in and enter into a broadened conversation on the great literature of this and other times.

Postby truehobbit » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:32 am

MithLuin wrote:I'd say the more popular plays, around here, are: Hamlet, Macbeth, King Lear, Othello, Romeo and Juliet, Midsummer Night's Dream, Julius Cesear, Merchant of Venice, Taming of the Shrew, etc. The only reason we read Henry V is because it is one of the more 'managable' histories - it doesn't have 3 parts ;).


:rofl: - good point about the 3 parts!

Mmh, yes, my first Shakespeare seminar at Uni covered the 'five big tragedies', i.e. Hamlet, Macbeth, Lear, Othello, Romeo and Juliet. Midsummer Night's Dream is popular because it's really the most hilarious and at the same time the richest of the comedies (although I feel that the idea of "Elves" has in recent years become more of a problem - wonder why that is ;) ), Merchant of Venice is popular because of its difficult topic (although I think it's pretty idiotic), Richard III is popular because of it's cool evil villain.
Basically, plays that are in praise of the statesmenship or war-exploits of some historical figure don't stand much of a chance here, unless they offer a handle to undermine such a reading. Plays that deal with the corruptability, weakness and ultimate failure of human endeavours are more food for the stage.
Plays like Henry V or Taming of the Shrew become popular periodically when there's a movie made from them. ;)
I think theatres, though, are always looking for lesser known plays in order to be able to surprise the audience. You'll get the famous plays in some weirdo adaptation, but you have a better chance to get the unknown ones straight. That way I've been able to see "Titus Andronicus" performed twice, and really well done, too. :)


I would guess Portia in Merchent of Venice, before they disguise themselves as men. (What was it with Shakespeare and naming the women all Portia?)


But is there a "Captain" in Merchant of Venice?
And the rest doesn't really fit the storyline, either, does it? ;)


So, Iris is right as portia confirmed - but I'd have asked her who the speaker is! :P ;)
(Ok, I got one without naming the speaker, too, recently. :D )

I just thought the "sister" thing was really confusing - made me think it was Sebastian, but it turned out that the Duke is referring to Olivia and calling her 'sister' metaphorically. :roll:

I just like reading your conversation.


Thanks, Iris! :hug:
I'm always a bit worried I comment too much for a trivia thread, but I just love talking about Shakespeare, so I'm glad to hear you enjoy reading the conversation, too. :)
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Postby IrisBrandybuck » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:25 am

Ok, I'll have to find something, so I'll get back to you later.

Thanks! :D
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Postby TS » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:37 pm

truehobbit wrote:That way I've been able to see "Titus Andronicus" performed twice, and really well done, too.


Yeah, I've noticed that Titus Andronicus is sort of "in" again. My local (mostly) Shakespeare theatre ran that one last season -- great Goths! Made a nice counterpoint to Julius Caesar. You know what I'd really like to see, though, is a good performance of Timon of Athens. It's quite the neglected and abused little tragedy! It's funny how tastes in Shakespeare change. I mean we've always liked the guy, but every generation seems to "discover" or abandon this play or that one. The Tempest never used to be popular at all until pretty recently, I hear. All that post-colonial studies jazz in the latter half of this century partly contributed to a renewal of interest there, for better or worse. And Lear went out of favor for awhile last century after being considered the greatest great thing ever. Maybe they'll all hate Hamlet in 200 years! Fortunately, I guess, a hated Shakespeare play will always still get plenty of love.

Speaking of love, "Venus and Adonis," there's another neglected Shakespeare piece.

"Call it not love, for love to heaven is fled
Since sweating lust on earth usurped his name,
Under whose simple semblance he hath fed
Upon fresh beauty, blotting it with blame;
Which the hot tyrant stains and soon bereaves,
As caterpillars do the tender leaves.

...

More I could tell, but more I dare not say;
The text is old, the orator too green"

<3<3<3<3<3
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Postby IrisBrandybuck » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:18 pm

I'm sorry, all. I've been terribly busy recently.

Please carry on without me and I'll try to post when I actually have time to come up with something!

:blush:
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Postby TS » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:19 am

[edit] I don't suppose I can delete my own posts entirely? Sorry, I'm new, and my first attempt to post the previous one failed because of the new person word filter; I was told it had been lost forever, but apparently it went through with a few-day delay.
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Postby truehobbit » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:00 am

Hello and welcome to TORC, TS! :)

You can delete your posts by editing out the entire text, but please don't, I liked your post! :)

Yes, I think there's a word filter to keep spam-bots away, and that may hit a real poster, but I hope you won't let it keep you from posting.

I agree that there are trends in what plays are popular - like I said earlier, anything with 'Elves' in it is a bit suspect in the theatre right now. ;)
I didn't know that Lear had been unpopular for a while.
As for neglected plays, I've always been meaning to read Cymbeline, after having seen the latter half of a BBC version of it on TV once and having been quite impressed, even though I didn't see enough to quite catch the whole plot. Haven't got round to it yet, though.

And, yes, the narrative poems are definitely neglected. (In other words, I haven't read them. ;) )
I liked the quote you posted. :)

Iris, we don't mind waiting a couple of days... :)

Or maybe you'd like to have a go, TS? And then Iris can take the next one, if she has time again. :)
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Postby IrisBrandybuck » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:28 am

Ok, I know this will be super easy, but it's one I really like, so...

What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason! how infinite in faculties! in form and moving, how express and admirable! in action how like an angel! in apprehension, how like a god! the beauty of the world! the paragon of animals! And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust? Man delights not me; no, nor woman neither, though by your smiling you seem to say so.
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Postby truehobbit » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:51 am

:love:

One of my favourites, too. :D (And my fingers are itching to comment on it. ;) )

Cool that you could play, Iris! :) I'll wait a bit to see if someone else comes up with the answer. :D
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Postby portia » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:57 pm

I have decided to take a break. But watch out in about a week.
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Postby TS » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:48 pm

Thanks for the welcome, truehobbit!

Hm. I know that one, too. It's good, and it reminds me -- well it and the play from which it comes in general -- reminds me of this one I'll put up. Sorry if I should wait for someone else to answer and talk about Iris's before joining in...? And I'll admit to not having read the entire thread from the beginning, so I also really apologize if this one's come up already. But, it's only from a middling popular play, so we'll see:

"Ay, but to die, and go we know not where;
To lie in cold obstruction and to rot;
This sensible warm motion to become
A kneaded clod; and the delighted spirit
To bathe in fiery floods, or to reside
In thrilling region of thick-ribbed ice;
To be imprison’d in the viewless winds,
And blown with restless violence round about
The pendant world; or to be worse than worst
Of those that lawless and incertain thoughts
Imagine howling: ’tis too horrible!
The weariest and most loathed worldly life
That age, ache, penury and imprisonment
Can lay on nature is a paradise
To what we fear of death."

viewless winds... *shudder*

[edit]As for the answer to Iris's, who but the prince of Denmark himself, in, of course, Hamlet?
Last edited by TS on Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby truehobbit » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:53 pm

portia, I'll look forward to seeing you back in here. :)

TS, this thread has been going on for so long, I wouldn't know what has come up before - no need to read the whole thread.
But (in spite of my constant babbling ;) ) this is still a trivia game, so you should name the play and speaker of the quote Iris posted.
The rules are simple: the poster who first identifies the quote correctly gets to ask the next quote. (No googling for the answer, of course.) :)
Your quote is fine, but please just add the solution to Iris's quote. (Gives me time to think about yours, too, because I don't know it offhand. ;) )
:)



ETA: I've just remembered that not only did I join at about this time (I do remember it was late at night) five years ago today, but my first post on this board (which I don't remember, but a friendly mod looked it up for me once) was also on Shakespeare and in this forum. :D :D :D
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Postby portia » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:10 am

I am still on break, but I am sneaking back in to say. . .



HAPPY BIRTHDAY WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE

BEST WISHES FOR ANOTHER 443 YEARS!!
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Postby MithLuin » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:18 pm

Here you go, Hobby

:D

I wasn't around when you joined, so it was nice to see a snapshot of a part of TORc history I missed. Hope you stick around for another 5 years!


As for the current quote, I've no idea. So, Antony and Cleopatra? All I know about that play is that my sister's college class determined that all the talk of death was code for sex :lol:
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Postby truehobbit » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:56 am

Oooh, cool! Thanks, Mith! :D :hug:

A part of TORC history, huh? :D Here's to us all sticking around! :drink:


And happy birthday to Shakespeare, too! :D :horse: <- playacting smiley


TS, I don't know your quote at all, either. It sounds so harsh and depressing that the only thing that comes to mind is King Lear, but I'm sure it's not that (as I think I'd remember it, and as it's not a "middling popular" play) - time for a hint maybe? :)

All I know about that play is that my sister's college class determined that all the talk of death was code for sex


LOL, yes, indeed. :D Well, I don't know about Anthony and Cleopetra, as I haven't read it, but in the 16th and 17th century, an orgasm was indeed referred to as "the little death" - I guess it still depends on context, but if an early modern love poem asks something like: "come, sweet death, and end my pains" the speaker most likely doesn't mean to literallydie... ;) :D
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Postby TS » Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:26 pm

Hm, yeah, I guess it's not really middling popular. Probably a little below middling. But more well-known that some of the really obscure ones. As for a hint, well, let's see. The play's title has three words in it. And there's a duke involved in this scene, a duke and a sister. (None of those help too much, I don't think. This *is* Shakespeare, after all. :)) It's also one of the "problem plays." Which, uh, means even though you felt a "Lear" vibe, truehobbit, it's usually classed among his comedies.

Funny, huh?
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Postby IrisBrandybuck » Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:50 am

I thought of two, but I don't know the speakers...A Winter's Tale or Mesure for Measure...

It is Measure for Measure...I checked on that. And the speaker would be Claudio.

Am I right?
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Postby TS » Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:56 pm

Claudio in Measure for Measure it is! A strange little play, and a strange little scene.

Claudio's speech here comes only a few lines after the perhaps more famous speech by Duke Vincentio, urging the condemned man to prepare himself for his impending death: "Be absolute for death; either death or life/ Shall thereby be the sweeter."

And how does Claudio respond? At first, we get: "I humbly thank you./ To sue to live, I find I seek to die;/ And, seeking death, find life: let it come on."

Then he realizes death might not be such a nice thing after all, and come the viewless winds and howling. (Hm, truehobbit, howling... that actually makes me think of Lear, come to think of it. Never connected that to Lear's "Howl, howl, howl" before. Cool.)
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Postby IrisBrandybuck » Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:53 am

*is proud*
I have to admit, I got the name first, but I don't know Measure for Measure very well and thought and thought and finally looked it up. I get halfway there, then get lost. :lol:

Ok, I'll find something in a bit and post it. :)
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Postby IamMoose » Sun May 06, 2007 1:23 pm

Hey! Where's the promised next quote, eh? :D
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Postby MithLuin » Sun May 06, 2007 2:15 pm

OT: So, Hobby, who's the guy?

:D
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Postby truehobbit » Sun May 06, 2007 3:59 pm

Oooh, Measure for Measure - good one, TS! I've not read it, but I've heard interesting things about it. :D

Then he realizes death might not be such a nice thing after all, and come the viewless winds and howling. (Hm, truehobbit, howling... that actually makes me think of Lear, come to think of it. Never connected that to Lear's "Howl, howl, howl" before. Cool.)


I wasn't really connecting it to anything specific in Lear, but the imagery of tortured nature, the wild madness of the thoughts in that speech reminded me of it. But the specific howling is an interesting connection, too. :)


Mith - hehe, he's dishy, isn't he? :D
Alas, he's the product of female imagination, and as such unattainable in real life. ;)
But if you ask who he is in the framework of the image, he's a knight of Dol Amroth. If the picture were bigger, you could see a swan-ship embossed on his vambrace (the arm-protection thing). :D
My own dress is meant to be Gondorian.
Now I need to come up with a suitably Mary-Sueish background story for the two, I guess. :D (You wouldn't happen to know what sort of connection Gondor and Dol Amroth would be likely to have? 8) I'd have to read up on that a bit, I'm afraid.)


So, yes - where is Iris? *drums fingers impatiently*
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Postby IrisBrandybuck » Sun May 06, 2007 6:25 pm

Sorry, guys, got busy. Someone else take over please? I'll try to do better next time. (curse busy-ness!)
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Postby MithLuin » Sun May 06, 2007 7:35 pm

I'll leap in, if no one minds....

What would you say if I should let you speak?
Villains, for shame, you could not beg for grace.
Hark, wretches! how I mean to martyr you.
This one hand yet is left to cut your throats
Whilst that Lavinia, 'tween her stumps doth hold
The basin that receives your guilty blood.


Hehe, Hobby, sorry he's just imaginary! But I do want the story...
Hmmm, Dol Amroth is a province (or Princedom) of Gondor. Prince Imrahil's daughter Lothiriel married Eomer, King of Rohan. And of course Lord Denethor's wife Finduilas was from Dol Amroth as well. So, it would be not at all unusual if a Knight of Dol Amroth married a lady of Minas Tirith. :)
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Postby truehobbit » Mon May 07, 2007 3:21 am

Ahh, that's easy. :D

That's Titus, in Titus Andronicus, about to make mince-meat (literally! =:) and deservedly! ;) ) of his foes. :D

Back with a new one later today. :)

Hmmm, Dol Amroth is a province (or Princedom) of Gondor. Prince Imrahil's daughter Lothiriel married Eomer, King of Rohan. And of course Lord Denethor's wife Finduilas was from Dol Amroth as well. So, it would be not at all unusual if a Knight of Dol Amroth married a lady of Minas Tirith. :)


Thanks! :)
Hmmmh, what we do need, of course, is drama/trouble/outrage - you know, that sort of thing. ;) What sort of people are the Dol Amroth folk? Were the Dol Amroth people involved in any bad conflict, apart from stepping in at the end of ROTK? What about the first and second ages for example?
(One could, of course, also set the story in the fourth age, and invent some entirely new troubles... =:) )
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Postby IrisBrandybuck » Mon May 07, 2007 5:50 am

Thank, you, Mith. I should come up with a file of quotes and have them on hand just in the event that I get busy and forget to look something up! :)
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Postby truehobbit » Mon May 07, 2007 5:04 pm

Here's a very short one - I think figuring out what sort of situation this is from could be helpful. (Unless someone just recognises it, which is possible, too, of course. :D )

God made him, and therefore let him pass for a man.
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Postby MithLuin » Mon May 07, 2007 5:39 pm

My first thought was Merchant of Venice, maybe before the "If you prick me, do I not bleed?" speech, but I am most likely way off.

As for Dol Amroth....it doesn't exist in the First Age ;). It springs up during the Third Age...no...wait. Yes.

Hmmm.

There are two stories as to who is the "first" Prince of Dol Amroth. The Silvan elf Mithrellas takes up with the Numenorean Imrazor in that area, and their son Galador is called the first Prince of Dol Amroth. This is when Amroth and Nimrodel flee Lothlorien, so....when is that? Early Third Age? Or Second Age? (It's when the Balrog shows up in Moria...so 1980 TA?)

Anyway, later, during the Oath of Cirion (the 12th Ruling Steward) and Eorl the Young, a Prince of Dol Amroth emerges. That is 500 years prior to the War of the Ring (~2500 TA).

Fourth Age - anything goes.
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Postby truehobbit » Tue May 08, 2007 3:49 am

My first thought was Merchant of Venice, maybe before the "If you prick me, do I not bleed?" speech, but I am most likely way off.


Merchant of Venice is correct! :shock: :D
I don't recollect if it's before or after that famous speech, but if you thought it referred to Shylock, you are quite a bit off. :P
Maybe another guess as to who says it and in what situation? =:)


Thanks for the further info on Dol Amroth! :D I'll be thinking about a story. 8)
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Postby portia » Tue May 08, 2007 6:03 pm

Portia says it about one of the suitors.

We had this question before, and I couldn't remember which suitor then, either! :shock: :shock:

The Prince of Morrocco?
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Postby truehobbit » Wed May 09, 2007 2:28 am

We had this before? Oooops! :oops:

It's the French guy. Though she finds similarly flattering comments for the Moroccan and everybody else. :D

Welcome back, portia! :)


Who's asking the next one, now? Shall we say Mith, because she got the play right first and because I picked one that had been asked before?
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