Who is your least favourite character?

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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby Morwenna » Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:21 am

I never gave this very much thought, but I'd have to agree with Melwa that Denethor belongs at least near the top of the list, for the same reasons. Such overweening pride really grates on me.
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Re: Re:

Postby Arlaug » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:42 pm

choubachou wrote:
Mithfânion wrote:I found Tom Bombadil to be totally out of place in regard to the storyline of the Lord of the Rings.<BR><BR>Whether or not that's a good thing or not is something every reader should decide for themselves...


Yup, Bombadil was completely out of place. It's like Tolkien created him back when he wanted LotR to be a joyful and happy sequel to the Hobbit, and he forgot to take him out (along with the thinking fox...) when he realized he was making a more mature story.

He's a queer being altogether. I've stated in a separated theme how I disliked him even during my first read,there was something so eerie about him, like looking at a smiling clown-killer (I dislike clowns).
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby Haldir91 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:13 pm

Isildur, definitely, even though it would not be interesting if he had destroyed the ring.

Denethor too.
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Re:

Postby Sindardame » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:24 am

galfromlorien wrote:Ioreth!You know,the woman from the Houses of Healing?I don't know why but I just can't stand her!she's so annoying(IMHO).Especially after the war when everyone is coming back to Minas Tirith.

Yes.... Yes and yes! I find it embarrassing that she's one of the few women with lines... Halfway made me think Tolkien had a bad experience in the war with women of this occupation. She is like that girl in gone with the wind who says she can deliver a baby and then admits she doesn't know anything about it after entering the role of midwife, just, instantaneous revulsion is a necessary response!
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby Denethor » Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:25 am

Dear Eru, I thread I started over thirteen years ago. How time flies...
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby TheGreenWizard » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:48 pm

I would have to go with Denethor. So much selfishness and ego going on with him, it was tough to tolerate. You expect the characters who are supposed to be evil to be evil. But the Steward of Gondor should have been a righteous man.
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby BerenVonRictoffen » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:01 pm

TheGreenWizard wrote:I would have to go with Denethor. So much selfishness and ego going on with him, it was tough to tolerate. You expect the characters who are supposed to be evil to be evil. But the Steward of Gondor should have been a righteous man.

And he was, but also very complex, viewing Aragorn as an usurper of his father's love and favor, in addition to one-upping him in his advice to same. However like Aragorn, he was also a lord of great power and dignity, bereft of his wife and then his son, and doing his best in an impossible standoff against Sauron; meanwhile he viewed Aragorn as an upstart, from a line long bereft of dignity.
Denethor seems to be the most misunderstood character in the story-- and not just by hairy little camera-gnomes who pimp classic into crap.
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby TheGreenWizard » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:03 pm

BerenVonRictoffen wrote:
TheGreenWizard wrote:I would have to go with Denethor. So much selfishness and ego going on with him, it was tough to tolerate. You expect the characters who are supposed to be evil to be evil. But the Steward of Gondor should have been a righteous man.

And he was, but also very complex, viewing Aragorn as an usurper of his father's love and favor, in addition to one-upping him in his advice to same. However like Aragorn, he was also a lord of great power and dignity, bereft of his wife and then his son, and doing his best in an impossible standoff against Sauron; meanwhile he viewed Aragorn as an upstart, from a line long bereft of dignity.
Denethor seems to be the most misunderstood character in the story-- and not just by hairy little camera-gnomes who pimp classic into crap.




I agree that Denethor is perhaps the most misunderstood character of the story. I didn't mean to say that he was inherently evil, just that he was my least favorite character. His sacrifice of his own life (even if he didn't intend it this way) essentially saved Gondor, as it passed ultimate authority on to another individual. One thing that resonated with me was his cruelty to Faramir. That was something that I can not condone when I reflect upon the story.
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby Mablung » Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:09 pm

Back in 2000 I said Maeglin, and the Easterlings who betrayed Maedhros.

Would now add Saeros, and in some ways also Turin for causing such grief, hurt and loss to those near him. Though I realise Turin is also a victim of circumstances. This quote by Leonard Cohen is fitting:

"Like a baby, stillborn
Like a beast with his horn,
I have torn everyone who reached out for me"
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby siddharth » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:53 am

Mablung wrote:Back in 2000 I said Maeglin, and the Easterlings who betrayed Maedhros.

Would now add Saeros, and in some ways also Turin for causing such grief, hurt and loss to those near him. Though I realise Turin is also a victim of circumstances. This quote by Leonard Cohen is fitting:


I would agree with Saeros and Maeglin.
But I can never add Turin! I know much of what he caused was due to his own pride but he had no chance against the will of Morgoth. Plus the fact that he is not remorseless and he is painfully aware of every precious life he has taken makes him one of my favorite characters of all time. :(
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby Hurin's #1 Son » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:12 pm

One can't help but hate the SB's!!!!
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby Diamond of Long Cleeve » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:33 am

Hurin's #1 Son wrote:One can't help but hate the SB's!!!!


Aww, but Lobelia is awesome for standing up to Sharkey! :)

(Welcome to TORC, by the way!)

I agree with Siddharth about Túrin. Absolutely love the guy, despite his huge flaws and his catastrophic decisions. One of Tolkien's greatest characters.

I find it difficult to single out a least favourite character, because I even love Tolkien's villains! - they are often so complex and interesting.

But if I had to nominate, it would be the generic ruffians in the Scouring. Something in the execution there has never quite won me over, to be honest.
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby Mablung » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:46 am

Well, I love the character too! To my defense I said ‘in some ways..’ :)

Turin was definitely brought down by the curse Morgoth put on him, but aside from this he made some pretty bad decisions entirely on his own account.

He had some pretty clever and compassionate people around him (such has Melian and Thingol, Beleg and Mablung), but more often than not he ignored their advice. This much worsened the perhaps unavoidable consequences of his fate.

One example is in Nargothrond where he seemed absorbed in himself; he was contemptuous when warned by Arminas and Gelmir - with the worst consequences imaginable.

Not saying anyone would be able to escape Turin’s demise if in the same situation, but had he been wiser and less rash he might not have taken so many down with him.
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby siddharth » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:46 am

True.
I do think that to a certain degree, his decisions to ignore some good advice was because of Morgoth's shadow over him.
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby Diamond of Long Cleeve » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:27 am

Mablung ... I wouldn't disagree with any of that. :) Túrin does some terrible things. :shock: :( I've said elsewhere that his tragic story, to me, seems to be (partly) about predestination and free-will. Yes, Morgoth is powerful and his curse is powerful. But Túrin and his mother, Morwen, will keep on making incredibly bad decisions and ignoring the good advice of other very wise people! Which makes me want to bang their heads against a brick wall. :P As Gwindor says to Túrin, “The doom is in yourself, not your name.” Just so. 8)
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby fingolfin7 » Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:25 pm

Arwen she does nothing. Peter Jackson ruined the movies by expanding her role
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby Adaminth The Grey » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:32 am

It'S a difficult question. Some of you stated "Denethor". I also was thinking about him. But can we really accuse him of running into madness in his profession to be the Stewart of Gondor? All the time knowing how this overwhelming dark power is raising unstoppably just few miles behind your borders and knowing that you will be the first target and you don't have any chance (or was his mind manipulated by the Dark Lord himself??) I bet half of us would not stand stand this pressure either.

I have some "oh my Gooood, what is he doing?!!"-characters: Pippin in the first half of the quest for example... with this idiocy and childishness...? but he developed so remarkably - so Pippin is great!

I don't know... but in my interpretation of the leading question here as the character which I never never wanna become in my life...: Grima! Mean, manipulating, power loving and serving a master who tries to become a worlds king in his own personal malice and madness. And all that without being influenced by the power of the one ring like in the case of Gollum...
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby TheGreenWizard » Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:12 am

Arwen's expanded role in the films is understandable. I don't think some of the criticism the films face is fair. You have to understand first off that while PJ did his best to make a film that is representative of the book, it is still a business. Millions of dollars were spent on production and movie execs ultimately look at the bottom line. We also have to remember that these movies were not made solely for those of us whom have read the book. In fact it's the opposite. The film must flow as smooth as possible to the outsider. Inserting Glorfindel at the Ford of Bruinen does not make sense from a film standpoint considering his limited time in the story.

I agree that Grima is one of the worst characters, if not the worst, in the story. Though he does redeem himself slightly with the killing of Saruman. I would still have to stick with Denethor. He may not be as inherently evil as Grima but his folly in the story is truly aggravating.
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby RyersonSonOfRyer » Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:12 am

Hmmmmm.....i would have to say Lotho. He is a clotthead :D
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby Adaminth The Grey » Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:54 am

... I was thinking from time to time again about this question...
and must say: Ioreth! And this smart-ass "master of the herbs" at the Houses Of Healing... They are just talking a lot without acting!!!
So much alike lot of people nowadays....
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby jgress » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:55 am

Adaminth The Grey wrote:It'S a difficult question. Some of you stated "Denethor". I also was thinking about him. But can we really accuse him of running into madness in his profession to be the Stewart of Gondor? All the time knowing how this overwhelming dark power is raising unstoppably just few miles behind your borders and knowing that you will be the first target and you don't have any chance (or was his mind manipulated by the Dark Lord himself??) I bet half of us would not stand stand this pressure either.

I have some "oh my Gooood, what is he doing?!!"-characters: Pippin in the first half of the quest for example... with this idiocy and childishness...? but he developed so remarkably - so Pippin is great!

I don't know... but in my interpretation of the leading question here as the character which I never never wanna become in my life...: Grima! Mean, manipulating, power loving and serving a master who tries to become a worlds king in his own personal malice and madness. And all that without being influenced by the power of the one ring like in the case of Gollum...


The movie makes Denethor out to be utterly wretched, self-centered and unworthy of his high office, kind of like what Wormtongue would be if he were in charge. The book gives him much more dignity, and even his final despair is understandable and provokes sympathy. So I don't like how Denethor was portrayed in the film.

Similarly, Faramir comes across as much less noble in the film, whereas in the book he is genuinely heroic. I suppose they were trying to make him more like Boromir, e.g. by taking Frodo to Minas Tirith to surrender the Ring, which in the book is what Denethor wished Faramir had done. But Faramir's role as the symbol of the spirit of the old Numenorean Faithful in Gondor is kind of lost.

I'm neutral on Arwen. True, in the book she is largely ornamental and uninteresting and compares rather poorly to her supposed likeness Luthien, who actually accomplished great deeds. I think Tolkien himself in a letter conceded that he should have done more with her. So I don't totally object to her expanded role in the film. Even the whole "warrior princess" shtick is not totally implausible, in that the Elves seemed mostly enlightened on the issue of gender equality. At the same time, the Elves were not as martial-spirited as the Rohirrim: wanting to be a warrior makes more sense in a Rohirric cultural context than in an Elvish one. In the book, the attitude of Elrond and the other High Elves seems to have been that Arwen is like a precious flower that needs to be protected from the cruel world, so they would probably not want her exposing herself to danger in battle. The memory of what happened to her mother Celebrian is probably relevant.
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby Morwenna » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:16 am

Well, Thingol didn't want Luthien to be exposed to all those dangers either, but she had other ideas. :) I suspect that Elrond is a much more noble character (and deserving of his daughter's respect) than Thingol was!

And at least Arwen gets to visit between Lorien and Rivendell; but wasn't it on a similar journey that Celebrian was captured? No, M-E is not a safe place!

As for staying home and doing what one can, I'm reminded of the women who took the factory jobs or knitted socks and so on during the two World Wars.
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby Chubb » Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:24 pm

I've grown to like Arwen - she doesn't make much of an appearance, but she is in a way very present throughout the book as a source of hope, strength, admiration and perseverance for Aragorn. It takes a special person to inspire anyone like that. I suppose embroidering a flag doesn't really compare to the feats of others, but perhaps we are underestimating its value and contribution in battle - in boosting morale and striking fear in their enemies! ...and we don't really know she was doing nothing for the entire time. She may not have fought in battle, but fighting is not the only worthy deed. She was the one to understand something of Frodo's mind at the end when few would have been able to, and offered him solace and empathy. Perhaps she had supported many others in that way, not least her father. And her ultimate decision to remain as a mortal in Middle-earth, separated from her kin, was a very difficult and courageous one. I see her as a strong, dignified character.
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby jgress » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:29 pm

Chubb wrote:I've grown to like Arwen - she doesn't make much of an appearance, but she is in a way very present throughout the book as a source of hope, strength, admiration and perseverance for Aragorn. It takes a special person to inspire anyone like that. I suppose embroidering a flag doesn't really compare to the feats of others, but perhaps we are underestimating its value and contribution in battle - in boosting morale and striking fear in their enemies! ...and we don't really know she was doing nothing for the entire time. She may not have fought in battle, but fighting is not the only worthy deed. She was the one to understand something of Frodo's mind at the end when few would have been able to, and offered him solace and empathy. Perhaps she had supported many others in that way, not least her father. And her ultimate decision to remain as a mortal in Middle-earth, separated from her kin, was a very difficult and courageous one. I see her as a strong, dignified character.


I see what you're saying, though I note you have to fill in a lot of the details with your own speculation.

I've just finished reading LOTR aloud to my wife, and afterwards I read her the excerpt from the tale of Aragorn and Arwen in the appendix. Even there the only thing I could really see in Arwen was that she was very beautiful and graceful and Aragorn saw her as a kind of reincarnation of Luthien. The whole thing stills seems very stylized and unreal, like something lifted out of a medieval romance, and I almost get the impression Aragorn falls in love with her just because he's supposed to in the grander scheme of things, i.e. they're re-playing the tale of Beren and Luthien. It's hard for me personally to relate to any of this - I can't see myself risking my life multiple times and traveling to the ends of the earth for a woman just because she happens to be very beautiful. I guess that just betrays my modern, cynical attitude.
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby Morwenna » Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:25 am

It wasn't just her beauty; they did get to know each other. (Though her beauty must have attracted him enough to want to get to know her better.) And if she was more than just a pretty face, he was more than just the heir to a kingdom of Men. Even with his title, she'd have to be pretty solidly in love to give up her Elven immortality for him! And love like that isn't founded on superficials. Elrond wouldn't permit the marriage till Aragorn came into his own--not for the title, but as a test of his character; he had to deserve her. (Gives a whole new spin on the "Be all you can be" recruitment slogan! :))
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby solicitr » Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:58 am

Lotho would be a serious candidate if he ever appeared onstage, but he d0esn't have a single line of dialogue!

I must say, I really, really loathe Ted Sandyman, and halfway wish he had caught an arrow fighting on the ruffians' side at Bywater.
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby Morwenna » Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:23 am

Did he fight? Or did he just sit back and sneer?
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby solicitr » Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:39 pm

Morwenna wrote:Did he fight? Or did he just sit back and sneer?


Ted? Fight? Probably hiding in a cellar.
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby angelagorniak123 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:32 pm

check out this website for character descriptions if you need a refresher!!

http://lordoftheringinfo.weebly.com/
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Re: Who is your least favourite character?

Postby heliona » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:17 am

angelagorniak123 wrote:check out this website for character descriptions if you need a refresher!!

http://lordoftheringinfo.weebly.com/


It's worth pointing out that this forum is about the Books, as opposed to the Movies, so your website is not necessarily relevant. Well done on making it, though. :thumbsup:
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