M-E & Tolkien Trivia (Third Continuation Thread)

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M-E & Tolkien Trivia (Third Continuation Thread)

Postby truehobbit » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:55 pm

This thread is the third continuation of M-E & Tolkien Trivia (Second Continuation Thread).
Like its predecessor, M-E & Tolkien Trivia (Continuation Thread) it was hosted by the unforgotten -Rómestámo-, who took over from Loccrist, whose original thread, started on December 16th 2000, can be found here.

The rules as Loccrist described them:
I'll start by asking a question, and whoever is first to post the right answer gets to post the next question. Easy enough, I suppose.


Rómestámo added:
Past questioning shows this thread is a no holds barred, references permitted "Middle-Earth (and now Tolkien) Trivia Open". Good luck!


Today, I have the honour to start the fourth incarnation of TORC's great M-E & Tolkien Trivia game. Enjoy! :)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And to start us off, here's a picture question! :D

It's probably easy (though, you never know), but I thought it would be fun. :)
And I'm hoping that it's something all the Tolkien Companions won't be much help with. =:) ;)

The names of which Hobbits are illustrated here?

(It seems, the site won't let you make a thumbnail a link to a larger pic, so if you want to get a larger pic, click the link.)

(I realise that there are varieties of each of these that may look much different from each other - there even are different species that go by the same popular name in English. I tried to pick what I considered common varieties, but where there are two pics in a row, they have the same name in English. I hope there's not too much confusion.)

(If no one gets all the names, the next question goes to whoever gets most. :) )

1)Image
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitnames5.jpeg



2)Image
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitnames4.jpeg


3)ImageImage
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitname11.jpeg
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitname11a.jpeg

4)Image
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitnames3a.jpeg


5)Image
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitnames2.jpeg


6)Image
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitname1.jpg


7)ImageImage
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitname5.sized.jpeg
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitname5a.jpeg


8 )Image
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitname4.sized.jpeg


9)Image
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitname3.jpeg

10)Image
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitnames8.sized.jpeg


11)ImageImage
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitnames7.jpeg
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitnames12.sized.jpeg


12)Image
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitnames.sized.jpeg

13)Image
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitnames9.jpeg

14)ImageImage
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitnames15.jpeg
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitnames15a3.jpeg


And for a bonus:

Image
http://www.thehalloffire.net/albums/Hobbitnames/hobbitnames10.jpeg
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Postby MithLuin » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:36 pm

Wow, Hobby, I'm impressed - what a great first post!

I'll start with the bonus ;). You've got a green stone, so I'd first think 'beryl' even if it does look more like aquamarine than emerald. But without looking into it further, I'll guess it refers to Sam's grandson Elfstan, since beryls are elf-stones ;).

#7 is Marigold (Sam's sister) and #9 is Violet. I think that 13 is Rose.
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Postby N.E. Brigand » Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:13 pm

Number 10 is a rowan (this one, in fact). And Rowan was Sam's great-grandmother.

I once made a list of all hobbit first names in LotR, which with a little formatting may be helpful in answering these questions.
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Postby truehobbit » Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:40 pm

Thanks, Mith! :)

You got Beryl right (wow! I'm impressed :D ), but I didn't think of Elfstan. But that's only because I didn't know that Beryls were Elfstones. So, I guess Elfstan counts, too. :D

You got 9 and 13 wrong, though.


NE, hmmh, is it legal to use something posted on TORN? ;) :P

(Btw, I also only worked from using LOTR. ;) )


Good start, you two! :)
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Postby Roccondil » Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:33 am

Great question truehobbit. :)

I think that 8 is Belladonna, also known as Deadly nightshade...

..and that 14 is couple of varieties of Primula, the yellow is I think Primula veris, by some called the cowslip. I’m not sure what variety the white one is.
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Postby truehobbit » Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:10 am

Thanks, Roccondil! :)

And you're correct, 8 is Atropa Belladonna. 14 shows Primula Veris, which is a bit rare today, and the other one is Primula Acaulis, the primrose, very popular garden plant for early spring.

So, just for completeness, can you point to hobbits of these names, as NE did above?


It just occurred to me that my comment on #9 was incomplete. The plant does belong to the genus 'viola', so if you can find a hobbit of the name of 'Viola' you'd have the point, Mith. It is not commonly referred to as 'violet' though, (and to my knowledge there aren't any hobbits called either Viola or Violet, or are there?) so I'm looking for something else.


Another thing of interest (perhaps ;) ): the two plants called 'marigold' in English are two different plants. The one on the left is a Calendula, a native of the Mediterranean and popular medicinal plant. The one on the right is a Tagetes, a native of South and Central America and very popular as a garden plant.
I only found this out when I was googling for a pic, so I was pretty amazed at this. :D



And I was of course only joking about TORN - 'ancient rivalry' and all that :) - it's just occurred to me that it might not sound so funny to active members of TORN - so, I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings, and apologise if I did. :blush:



(Edited to correct mistake)
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Postby rowanberry » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:00 am

#1 = Lobelia

#2 = Mentha

#3 = Celandine

#4 = Myrtle

#5 = Amaranth

#9 = Pansy

#11 = Asphodel

#12 = Mimosa

#13 = Peony
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Postby MithLuin » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:33 am

Oh my mistake. I was remembering a Violetta from the Black Family Tree from Harry Potter. Not my fault JKR used a lot of plant names too! ;) [Pansy, Lily, Petunia, Poppy...]


Tolkien's are better, of course :P
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Postby rowanberry » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:15 am

Oh, and is #6 Melilot?
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Postby N.E. Brigand » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:38 am

truehobbit wrote:And I was of course only joking about TORN - 'ancient rivalry' and all that -- it's just occurred to me that it might not sound so funny to active members of TORN -- so, I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings, and apologise if I did.


No worries on my account, anyway. Nor was I offended when you wrote this last month:

Yesterday, it seemed to me that the quote you were asking for could only be known to people who were at the conference (just one or two posters) or to those who read TORN (something that should not be rewarded anyway.


In both cases I knew you were joking. But I didn't get online until late 2003, and never knew of the "rivalry". I cite TORN here, and TORC there, and both on Mythsoc, etc. wherever it seems appropriate.
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Postby truehobbit » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:32 am

Rowan, wow! :shock: You got some of the hardest ones (to my mind), too. :clap:

Could you just add what hobbits they refer to, like NE did above? (So people see there really is a hobbit called Asphodel. :D )

#6 is not Melilot, though.



But I didn't get online until late 2003, and never knew of the "rivalry".


I don't really know about it either, and just assume that these days it's more fun than fact. They are similarly big places, so of course they'd both be vying for top place. Bit like Oxford and Cambridge. :D
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Postby MithLuin » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:34 am

Ah, but we had the name first ;) :P.


Yes, such rivalries are very silly, but as long as they are, well, just a joke, I suppose it's okay. To be honest, I thought it was a slight dig about permission to use various sources as aids to answering questions ;).


(Clearly, I know stones better than I know flowers, Hobby ;). Which is strange, since I prefer biology to earth science.... But I once asked a picture question in this thread involving malachite :D)
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Postby rowanberry » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:24 am

OK, names and bearers:

#1 = Lobelia Sackville-Baggins (no explanation needed!)

#2 = Mentha Brandybuck (Merry's and Frodo's cousin a few times removed)

#3 = Celandine Brandybuck (Merry's second cousin)

#4 = Myrtle Burrows (daughter of Peony Baggins and Milo Burrows)

#5 = Amaranth Brandybuck (sister of Rorimac "Old Rory")

#9 = Pansy Baggins (later Bolger, sister of Bilbo's grandfather)

#11 = Asphodel (later Burrows; sister of Rorimac "Old Rory", mother of Milo Burrows and mom-in-law of Peony Baggins)

#12 = Mimosa; I remember there was a Mimosa Bunce, but can't place her

#13 = Peony Baggins (later Burrows; Bilbo's cousin a few times removed)
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Postby truehobbit » Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:30 pm

Brilliant, Rowan, thanks! :D

And there's no doubt that you got most of them, so the next question is yours. :)


We've just got #6 left to identify...

It's just a drawing, so maybe that makes a difference, but I think the leaves are particularly well-drawn, makes my mouth water to look at them... :wink:
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Postby MithLuin » Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:51 pm

Well, it looks a little like sage.....
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Postby truehobbit » Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:28 pm

Sage it is, Mith! :D

So, what name could it be...? (Equivalent to another herb that was in the list.) :)
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Postby Roccondil » Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:53 am

That would be Salvia Brandybuck, granddaughter of Gormadoc.
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Postby truehobbit » Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:38 am

That's it, Roccondil! :)


Like Mentha for mint, you get the Latin name of sage, which is salvia.


*leans back to wait for Rowanberry's question*
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Postby rowanberry » Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:01 am

Thanks, Hobby. :)

In The Hobbit, there's a chain of events very similar to one in Beowulf. What is it?
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Postby MithLuin » Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:35 am

Well, there's this dragon, see, and....

Actually, I've never read Beowulf, so I have no idea. I've only scanned the poem in Old English, looking for LotR character names. :oops:

That is the sound of Tolkien rolling in his grave....
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Postby truehobbit » Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:58 pm

Well, there's this dragon, see, and....


it gets killed in the end.

Same story, really.

ROFL, Mith. :D

I haven't read Beowulf either. I'd thought I'd read somewhere that Beowulf has a conversation with the dragon at some point, like Bilbo, but this doesn't seem to be the case. I wonder if that's another dragon-story or if I just misremember that.

(Googling the question whether Beowulf had a conversation with his dragon, I got another parallel, though - but as I'd not have known that, I'm not telling. :P )
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Postby MithLuin » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:03 pm

Well, he faces it without his companions, though with his sword. That came up in Tolkien's essay on Ofermod ;)

Yes, I am incorrigible. The 'other' dragon is Fafnir - I don't know if he talks or not. (And he's the model for Glaurung, anyway, not Smaug)

I'll guess it has something to do with Bilbo stealing the cup. That scene always sounded as if it were something we should 'know' about dragons already, even though he told us.
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Postby dna » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:16 am

In both, a formidable and battle-experienced Dragon/worm, had been long guarding (and knew well) a King’s treasure, symbolic of the good fortune of an old race, situated in an unreachable high place seen from afar, but with a hidden entrance. One of a lowly station entered this way out of necessity, and quite incidentally stole a golden goblet as the Dragon was sleeping, despite the heaps of other riches. The Dragon upon waking realized the theft, and issued forth spewing flames at nightfall, exacting revenge on the neighbouring lands of Men. A hero (B----) eventually slew the Dragon by finding the softer parts of his hide. (I’ll bypass the mail-coat, and ‘distributor of rings’).

Don't know if I've overlooked something critical, or if this trumps the 2 wise maidens...
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Postby rowanberry » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:53 am

Apparently, dna knows his Beowulf (and probably owns the Annotated Hobbit :P ). That's exactly what I was after.

So, your turn.
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Postby N.E. Brigand » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:36 am

rowanberry wrote:Apparently, dna knows his Beowulf (and probably owns the Annotated Hobbit). That's exactly what I was after.
So, your turn.


The parallels were noted as early as 1938, by the way (can't remember if this is mentioned in The Annotated Hobbit) in a letter to a newspaper (the Observer?) by a correspondent who signed himself (or herself) "Habit". Tolkien's reply can be found in Letters.
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Postby dna » Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:16 pm

Brian Bates' The Real Middle-earth actually, along with Michael Alexander's translation of Beowulf. (I do own The Annotated Hobbit, but didn't even think to crack it here :wink: )

And kudos to truehobbit for facilitating the transition, especially with such a great question!

How can I make a deposit in the Edoras Bank?
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Postby Roccondil » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:22 am

This had me totally stumped for a bit, then I remembered something I had read some while ago…

Out in the Atlantic Ocean west of Scotland there is a whole series of seabed features that someone has named after locations in Middle-earth.

There is an Eriador Seamount, a Fangorn Bank and, yes, an Edoras Bank, amongst others.

So if you want to deposit something there then I suggest you use an oil drilling rig - or a bathyscaphe. :wink:
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Postby truehobbit » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:12 am

Thanks for the kind words, dna! :hug:

Roccondil, hmmh, I was thinking that would be too easy, though a nice pun. The question had me stumped, too, so I googled a bit, and the geological name came up, but I thought that can't be it, as it would be rather straightforward (knowing dna's twisted mind :P ;) ).
I tried to interpret it in terms of a cross-word clue, but didn't get anywhere either.

I'm curious whether it's that Edoras Bank. :)

(And if so, I also want to know how I can get my deposit back. :P )
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Postby Roccondil » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:15 am

Yes, I spent some time thinking about it in terms of a crossword clue as well, but, apart from the bodies deposited in the mounds by Edoras (but a bank is not a mound) I got nowhere as well...
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Postby dna » Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:20 am

My mind isn't constantly twisted O True One, just occasionally! :wink:

I thought I'd stray from my usual convolutions, to something undemanding yet off the beaten path, which Roccondil aced and then some. (I would have accepted any boat with a Global Positioning system and sea-chart of the Rockall Plateau). :)

And FYI truehobbit, the Edoras Bank, though a very secure shelter for your deposits, comes with staggering withdrawal surcharges! :wink:

All yours Roccondil!
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