What A Novel Idea:Pencil...Paper...write!

Writing is a passion many people experience after reading Tolkien's works. Come here to discuss and share your experiences with writing.

Postby Parador~J » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:30 am

:shock: .........(I seem to like that shocky face emoticon...I use it enough)

This is wonderful :)

Tempest! and Rho! :hug:

This is so cool you two are here...I can't tell you how excited I am... :D

To not have Tempest's character with us when we have Erinhue's would be unheard of :lol: The stories just would not be the same...

The more characters we have...the merrier time it will be :lol: AND the stories more exciting and interesting, Rho :thumbsup:

It was my understanding that the stuff we wrote on THIS site was technically then copyrighted by The One Ring. So, are we allowed to use the material we wrote, or will write, if we post it here?


:blush: geeze...I didn't even think of that...I've been so careful about not using anything Tolkien....that I forgot about TORC :P

Would we be able to use it with permission from TORC? In a way...it would be a good PR for TORC...because they would be mentioned in the book :thumbsup:

Very good question, Tempest :)

I was thinking also...what if we made these books in to a series of books...geared toward young adults? Adults would read them too...I mean...look at us! :lol:
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Postby Rholarowyn » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:49 pm

There seems to be some serious demand for books geared towards young adults and archery. So to have a least one archer in the story will certianly not hurt. ;-)
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So True the Arrow, So Steady the Hand

No word in your quiver goes errant,
no thought from your bow is misspent,
no image falls short of your target,
so true are the arrows thus sent.
Your heart with a steady compunction
pulls the bowstrings few others could ply,
your story does more than just function--
your steady hand helps my heart fly!

Thank you Parm for your wonderful poem. :heart:

Sharing another adventure with Eari in the Scriptorium: Once There Were Words
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Postby Parador~J » Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:17 pm

There sure is Rho....my favorite books are Young Adult books... :thumbsup:

OH yes! We definitely need your archer and writing skills :D

It will be great to have you back writing with us :hug:

Writing a series would give us an opportunity to do justice for the MK stories...and easier to write...instead of a big ol novel...

I have a cousin who is an illustrator...I would love to commission her to draw pics for the books...she is very good :thumbsup: :)
Last edited by Parador~J on Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Parador~J » Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:58 pm

Put this double post to use! ;)

I'm putting up some links in the upper threads...

As I was driving to Mathis to a reception (it was a 45 minute drive...so left me lots of time to think) :twisted:

Even though I'd like to see who else wants to join...in the mean time...I feel we can get started:

I would think the first thing we need to do is email Jonathan and Ted...and ask them if we can get permission to use any of the posts...and I'm still wondering if we need to email Elbren also. Only because the Mithril Knights were basically her idea...even though we're going to create our own world and stories...we do possibly plan on using come of the ideas from the posts...

Thoughts :)
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Postby Parador~J » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:21 pm

Wasn't sure where to put this...I can't link it...but it's a really good article from 'The Writer's magazine. I'll just post it here. It's about writing the movements and the gesture we make in word form and other good info...excellent article!
*********************************************************************


By Thomas Kaufman

Published: June 15, 2011

Use Movement and gesture in your fiction...


I have spent more than 20 years behind the lens of a camera, framing the way people move in hundreds of films (and in the process, taking home an Emmy and two Gordon Parks awards for cinematography). Maybe that’s why I think movement and gesture are important in writing, because they tell us visually what is happening internally.

I’ve tried to apply that cameraman’s eye to my budding writing career, which began with my 2010 novel Drink the Tea, which won the Private Eye Writers of America’s Best First Private Eye Novel competition, and a starred review from Publishers Weekly. I suspect most people like Willis Gidney, my private eye, who also appears in my second novel, Steal the Show, due out this month.

When I write a scene for a novel, I try to see it, to visualize the important details. Where are the people at the start? How about at the end? What changed?

You can learn a lot watching how characters move in well-directed films. In the opening scene of Preston Sturges’ Sullivan’s Travels, Sullivan explains his new project to his bosses. They hate it. The scene is all one take, and the way the actors move in the scene is motivated by their feelings and reactions to one another. The staging is poetry.

Alfred Hitchcock had a great sense of staging and movement. In fact, he deliberately confined his shooting space in films like Rear Window and Dial M for Murder—for him the films were exercises in staging and camerawork. Any fiction writer can learn a lot by watching them.

A person doesn’t always have to be in motion to give a sense of his or her interior space, of what they’re feeling. The French Impressionists were students of gesture. It’s important, because they found a visual way of telling about complex relationships. Take Renoir’s painting Luncheon of the Boating Party (above), in which the viewer can observe three different love triangles, all told through body language.

An eye for detail
My wife is an artist, and one of the perks is going to see great painting and sculpture with her. Since I work as a director of photography, we always have a lot to talk about. It’s also nice we work in different disciplines—we nearly always inform each other while we’re learning.

Just like a film director working with actors, I want, as a novelist, to work with my characters, explore their motivations, give them useful gestures or habits that inform the reader of their mental states. I’m having a bad day if I have a character shout, “I’m really angry at your infidelity right now!” But what if the same character picks up a cherished wedding present—a china vase—and smashes it without a word? Which behavior is more powerful for the reader?

Sometimes, very small actions can be revealing. I read that Rock Hudson had worn a groove down the middle of his thumbnail. A nervous habit, but why? The writer suggested that Hudson was conflicted, a gay man masquerading as straight in Hollywood. It must have been very stressful for Hudson, and it could explain the thumbnail.

That’s a splendid detail, because of its meaning. In fact, I use something like that in Steal the Show.

Add to your ‘warehouse’
Part of good writing is not just details, but the telling details. The ones with meaning. I can write five pages about a guy lighting a cigarette. I can describe the color of a door, the shape of a cloud, the vibration of a rolling bus. These are potentially meaningless details. I say potentially, because you, as the writer, can imbue them with meaning.

So what are the telling details? That’s what I try to visualize when writing a scene. Earlier, I described a person destroying a china vase. I may write a scene, put the vase in, then go to an earlier point of the manuscript and place the vase there, too, so the reader knows how important it is before it gets smashed. Writing is a kind of magic, isn’t it?

Sometimes, when I’m on the road filming a television show or commercial, I’ll see or hear something that I want to write down. I don’t know how I’ll use this scene, or that scrap of information, or a gesture or attitude someone showed. But writing it down makes it a part of my warehouse, the stuff I use when I write. I’ve heard expressions like, “You’ve got a handful of gimme and a mouthful of much obliged.” You can bet I wrote that down. One time someone I interviewed said he was involved in a project but not committed to it. I asked him, what’s the difference? “In a bacon and egg breakfast,” he said, “the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed.” That made it into my notebook, and into Drink the Tea.

Years ago I went to a Mexican restaurant with two friends, one a successful young Mexican-American woman. She was not only the first in her family to complete high school, but the first to graduate college with a business degree. She was going places. So why was she so rude to an inoffensive Mexican-American waitress that she made her cry?

I thought about it, and decided the waitress was an unpleasant reminder of her own humble roots that she was anxious to cover. Maybe I was right, maybe not. What matters is, the incident made me think. What would make people be so rude to someone who’d done them no harm? When a character does something, he or she is trying to restore a balance to what is seen as an imbalance. The young woman who made the waitress cry had experienced something negative, and she was attempting to make her own world a positive place again.

I could be all wrong. Maybe the young woman stubbed her toe and that’s why she was so brusque. Maybe, but then I have no story, no jumping-off point. I later used this incident as an important clue for the readers of Drink the Tea.

So why did she do it? In my mind, she had a good reason. Maybe not one I’d think was sufficient for her to act this badly, but that’s not the point. It’s enough for her, that’s the point. And if the reader can understand it, they’ll go along.

Understanding characters
I think understanding is the key to good characters, especially villains. I don’t see my bad guys as bad guys. No, just as Lee Marvin saw his characters, the bad guys are really just ordinary guys doing what they have to do to make it to the end of the day.

Macbeth is an example. Here we have a man so obsessed with power that he is willing to kill, lie, risk losing his sanity. Of course, Shakespeare lets us in on every important aspect of Macbeth’s thoughts, what brings him to these points. It is exactly because we can track Macbeth’s obsession that the play is so powerful. If Macbeth acts seemingly without reason, what we watch may be interesting, for a while. Eventually, we’ll get bored. So he kills Banquo. So what?

By having his protagonist be a murdering obsessive, Shakespeare flips our notions of good vs. bad. Macbeth has murdered. Once he’s caught, the show’s over. So Shakespeare must sustain the conflict. The forces of law and order are, for Macbeth, the forces of antagonism. Who’s the bad guy in Macbeth?

In Billy Wilder’s film Double Indemnity, the two main characters, a man and a woman, fall in love and conspire to kill the woman’s husband for the insurance money. The lead insurance investigator—who is also the protagonists’ best friend—becomes an antagonist in this scenario. In one scene, the man and woman believe they’ve committed a near-perfect murder, and have only to escape. They run to their car, get in, and start the engine.

But the engine won’t start. In silence they look at each other, and for the audience it sinks in. Get out of there, we want to shout, get the hell out.

I met Billy Wilder in 1980 and had a chance to ask him how he got the audience to identify so closely with these protagonists. His answer was that the script goes to a lot of trouble to make it clear to the audience why the insurance man is committing murder.

In other words, if you can understand what motivates a person, and it makes sense to that fictional character, then it’ll make sense to the reader.

I guess the point is to write characters interesting enough that readers want to hang out with them. Do that and you can do almost anything.


In addition to being an Emmy Award-winning cameraman and director, Thomas Kaufman is a writer whose debut novel, Drink the Tea, won the Private Eye Writers of America Best First Private Eye Novel award. He has contributed to three Academy Award-nominated films and shot hundreds of documentary and commercial films. Web: thomaskaufman.com.
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Postby Parador~J » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:11 am

While I was at work...waiting for them to bring an inmate in hand cuffs for me to drink...err...draw their blood...I noticed a book on the library cart that they take around for inmates. A lone book was sitting there...so I...naturally....HAD...to see what this book was all about....and let me tell you....what I saw...caused my heart to do a couple of flips :lol:

The title of the book was: Color of Chaos...it is written by L.E. Modesitt, Jr.

I was looking at ALL the MAPS he had created for his world...and wow...was I impressed :)

Here's an interview by Matthew Cheney of Tor.com did last year for the authors recently released 20th anniversary edition of The Magic of Recluce

It's really interesting to read how he started out as a writer...

He's written quite a few books for this series...would be interesting to read...

Edit: Oh wow...he lives in Cedar City , Utah! My sister and her family live there...and I was there a few years ago :lol: so cool...

:D
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Postby elora » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:56 pm

Ah yes....I remember that author. He wrote quite a few books and he certainly had a richly imagined "world".... Not bad books....perfectly acceptable...wouldn't set the world in fire but that is no flaw or crime. Rats....I don't mean to damn through faint praise.

He uses well established fantasy devices, which well trained readers recognise and respond to. It's well written enough to draw you on, the characters were interesting enough to incline me to read a few of his works to see what happened. Not dull, good language, interesting enough. Not overly complex, but not overly memorable for me. I can't for the life of me remember a character name...

Great to read when you don't want your brain to perform contortions but don't want to poison it with dross. There is a lot to be said for that. :)
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Postby Parador~J » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:24 pm

Really...I'm a non-fiction reader...90% of my books are non-fiction...the other 10 % are Tolkien, Rowling, Lewis, Suzanne Collins (Gregory the Overlander and Hunger Games), Brian Jacques and Christopher Paolini :)

In fact...this weeks question (well...the last two weeks) is Who are your favorite writers?

What caught my eye on the Color of Chaos book was the maps...all those names...and countries....I was jut taken by what I was seeing. That's the kind of world I would like Hue, Tempest, Rho and I to come up with...and who ever else wants to join us :)

It was just exciting to see another writer coming up with such a complex world...along with others too, like the Thieves World. It gets me motivated and encouraged :thumbsup:

Thank-you, Elora for your comments...I like it when you drop in :D
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Postby elora » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:22 pm

Alrighty! Fave writers! (stretches fingers in rich anticipation) :D

Aside from Tolkien, Michael Moorcock, Stephen Erikson, Glen Cook, Jim Butcher (Dresden Files), China Miéville, Guy Gavriel Kay and Neil Gaiman (LOVE LOVE LOVE American Gods).

Outside of the speculative fiction genre (the generic term for sci fi and fantasy), I am a MASSIVE FAN of Salman Rushdie. This man is a master of the novel as an art. A superlative storyteller, a modern day bard. Adore his work and the fact I can revel in it's characters and symmetry of perfect plot arcs and construction with joyous abandon.

Aside from Rushdie, Peter Carey, Lionel Shriver and even fallen British writer Jeffrey Archer (his short stories are crackers) all are regular denizens on my bookshelf. If I love a writer, I will buy their work in hard copy and, what is more, keep it and re-read it. I am the sort of reader who devours a book in two hours or so, and usually once read will not return to it. A bookshelf position is a sign of how much I loved their work.

My favourite writer of all time is, predictably, William Shakespeare. I have always been an acolyte of myths, fables, stories. I adore the way they can place a lens over real people and real events and help us see deeper into ourselves. I am a fiction groupie through and through.

If I read non-fiction, I am usually reading for professional purposes. That takes me into the realms of governance, psychology and the neurosciences. i am insatiable on the topic of evolutionary psychology...fascinates me...and I adore clinical studies of unusual psychological phenomena...But you don't want me to list my favourite researchers because that, I am delighted to say, would see me posting for years on the matter.

Great question, Parador~J! 8)
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Postby Parador~J » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:28 pm

I copied and pasted your post to A Writer's Quest...my bad :shock:

I forgot which thread I was in :lol:

Sorry about that Elora :)

I'll comment over there :thumbsup:
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Postby erinhue » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:26 pm

Personally, I think that the best way to write something is to write it. In the very early days of RP here, Some one would start a thread with a paragraph or two. The next person would simply pick up from there and go on. That's a lot like how it works now but I remember when there were no OOC or Aside threads, there was very little backstage discusion between the poster authors you just jumped in and wrote for all you were worth and rolled with the twists and turns the story took as the others posted. Everyone had the idea to write the same story but no one really knew where that was gonna go after the we left the starting gate.

I propose that those of us who are going to be a part of this project try doing just as we used to do, just write it. We can, will and should have discussions about this but I think that if we get started we can work out a lot of things that way instead of discussing the thing to death befor we get down to it. Just my three cents. 8)
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Postby erinhue » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:26 pm

So this is as good a start as any, vague enough to entertain any ideas going forward.


There was little hope in the message even as it was sent out. There was even less hope that the tiny bits of paper lashed to the legs of a fleet of carrier birds would reach those who once defended the land. There was almost no hope at all that they would answer the call, or if anyone was left to hear it.
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Postby Parador~J » Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:20 pm

' but I think that if we get started we can work out a lot of things that way instead of discussing the thing to death befor we get down to it'

:lol: :lol:

You're right Hue...don't want it to die before we even get started 8)

I'm going to copy and paste what you wrote ...transferring it to a new thread. We'll use that thread only for the writing... :thumbsup:

I'm an organizational freak...my mom calls me a sloppy perfectionist :lol:

Too, I think I'm dragging my feet...it's all of you that are truly writers...me...I'm working on it...and I won't get any better unless I get in there and write :bookworm:

I've noticed though here lately...when I read...I'm really paying more attention to the writing...the author's style, the content, what the book is all about...and how well it's written.

I've been down with a bad cold these last four days...and I'll be out of work tomorrow too. So this will give me a chance to write...

Thank-you Hue...you're the best :hug: ...err I mean, greatest! :lol:

Edit: when I write tomorrow...I'll add it to the first post of our story thread :thumbsup:
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Postby erinhue » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:08 pm

I got nothing. I don't have any idea what I'm talking about or where this is going. The only way I know how to write, is to write. I will start with whatever comes into my head and write it down. Tonight I was thinking about birds, I dunno why but there it is. I got no story but I did mention carrier birds in the previous post so that was a nice carry on that can move the story forward.

I got an idea that each character can come into this story by having one of the birds reach them one way or another. they cour reacte however they want to the message which can say what ever they want, it is all open/

I'm rambling but my idea is that as each person enters they come from where they come from and these differences anc help define the geography or cultursl variations in this world we are creating. For now each one getting a message is the way in and the bird and the mysteryous message is the connecting link.

A story could proceed to some degree with just this, developing out of the air so to speak. Now sooner or later something of a plot direction must be undertaken but for now we already know all there is to know about the story, whih is nothing at all yet. There can be a beauty in simply plugging away until a story starts to take shape. Prayer and vodka are also a big help here :twisted:
"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzi

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Postby Parador~J » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:26 pm

I'm sorry, Hue : (

I was out sick for a week about two weeks ago...and now I'm playing catch up with my workload...but...I've been thinking on this story :thumbsup:

I have lots of catching up to do with this thread and the Writer's Quest...lots of cool stuff :)

I like carrier pigeons...or an owl...umm...I'm getting images of Harry Potter's owl, Hedwig, hehe:)

I like your idea of each character defining their geography and culture areas of where their from and or where their at the time of writing...

I'm so glad you haven't given up on this Hue...thank-you for hanging in there :hug:

I'll read tomorrow...I've only had a few hours of sleep from last night and had to go in to work at 1AM...need some sleep...have to be up at 12 midnight and to work at 1 again...but then I'll be off until Monday after tomorrow :)

Saturday...my newest Grand daughter will be born...her name will be Lucy! :D

Talk with you soon, Hue and everyone who's reading this post lol:)
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Postby Parador~J » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:01 pm

Bravo, Hue and Tempest!! :D

This is really exciting...thank-you :grouphug:

I only have a few minutes to post...my NEW laptop's fan went out...and it heats up REAL fast, lol:) I can't take it to get fixed until next week...that's why I haven't been around...

I have lots to update...will do this toward the end of next week :thumbsup:

I sure miss everyone!!

Gotta shut it down...like NOW!! :O

:TORC:
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Re: What A Novel Idea:Pencil...Paper...write!

Postby Parador~J » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:30 pm

Like I said in another thread...holidays, flu...yada...yada :roll:

I'll add to the story tomorrow, Hue and Tempest...

I won't rample here...let me post first and then I'll rample :P
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Re: What A Novel Idea:Pencil...Paper...write!

Postby Parador~J » Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:51 pm

I've not given up on this quest....You'll see :)

I love this board...and always will....on into the Halls of Mandos...where we'll cheer the memories of our adventures in TORC

:TORC:
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Re: What A Novel Idea:Pencil...Paper...write!

Postby erinhue » Sat May 09, 2015 3:20 pm

I'm still kicking around darlin' Ready when ever you are :wink:
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Re: What A Novel Idea:Pencil...Paper...write!

Postby Parador~J » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:38 pm

I know you will, Hue...your the best...and so patient.
I wish we could all get together one day....have a TORC week get together!!!! :D Man that would be fun!!!

Love you all so much :grouphug:
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Re: What A Novel Idea:Pencil...Paper...write!

Postby Parador~J » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:02 pm

I plan on coming back more often...it's just hard right now...work takes up so much of my energy...plus life's daily routines. I'll be checking in wechaekly... :)

A long time friend of mine wrote a young adult's book....I'm editing it...what a cool book. The title is 'Sticky Snare'...

I'll get his permission....and then enter some of the book's pages here...just to get some feed back on it :D
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Re: What A Novel Idea:Pencil...Paper...write!

Postby Parador~J » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:03 pm

Hue....how long have you've been writing?

Are you a career writer?
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Re: What A Novel Idea:Pencil...Paper...write!

Postby prmiller » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:31 pm

To nudge people even more to consider pencil...paper and write,
slip over to TED talks and enjoy...
https://www.ted.com/talks/matt_cutts_tr ... or_30_days

it has inspired some of my ELL (English Language Learning) students to
keep up with some difficult tasks: e.g. finishing an eight-weeks' journal assignment.
Hooray for the joys of June!

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Re: What A Novel Idea:Pencil...Paper...write!

Postby Parador~J » Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:21 pm

Hi Parm!!! :)

Indeed I will!

I have this deep, deep desire to write...and yet...I don't write :(

I know I have too much happening right now...BUT, I need to at least write something once-a-day...even if it's my journal.

I sure miss TORC!

I'll stop by from time to time :)

BTW....great pic, Parm!!! :D
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Re: What A Novel Idea:Pencil...Paper...write!

Postby Parador~J » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:51 pm

Wow! TED is a cool website...I signed on with their Newsletters...and I joined the website :)

Thank-you, Parm :hug:

Sorry Hue...for not being around...I don't know what to say...I'm not a writer...but I sure had high hopes for this place.

Many people have stories to tell...and I do...one day...

I admire you and Parm for your writing abilities and skills...and above all...talents! You two are amazing...and two of my more favorite people on TORC...
Last edited by Parador~J on Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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~Bearer of the Sun Ring of ~Anar~ - The Spirit of Endurance ^~^'Fëavoronwie'^~^
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Re: What A Novel Idea:Pencil...Paper...write!

Postby prmiller » Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:24 pm

Parador~J wrote: I admire you and Parm for your writing abilities and skills...and above all...talents! You two are amazing...and two of my more favorite people on TORC...


My time spent here at TORC did much to help my skills over the years.
I have been helped by good mentors, and I have been equally inspired
by seeming inexhaustible youthful enthusiasm. TORC brings such a variety
of people to its realm!

I am glad for the time to hone skills, try new things, and enjoy friends
who have grown very dear from over a decade!

My love and thanks to all!
Parm :)
Hooray for the joys of June!

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Re: What A Novel Idea:Pencil...Paper...write!

Postby Parador~J » Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:50 pm

Indeed it has, Parm...you've been a joy to have on TORC!

I'm back for a bit...writing with Rho and Eari in the Scriptorium of Imladris...looking forward to doing some writing!

I hope all who read this thread are doing well in these most trying of times...it will truly test our hearts, mind, and soul...

It feels good to be back on TORC :)

I do plan on using this board for what I created it for :thumbsup:
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