The Writer's Shrine: The Boys are Back

Writing is a passion many people experience after reading Tolkien's works. Come here to discuss and share your experiences with writing.

Re: The Writer's Shrine - Free of Mistletoe. Writers Only.

Postby RobertEvert » Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:04 pm

This sounds like the place for me. Do you mind if I sit in?
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Re: The Writer's Shrine - A Show with everything but Yul Bry

Postby A_Simple_Poet » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:03 am

This sounds like the place for me. Do you mind if I sit in?


I prefer contributors. "Sit in" implies lurking, which is fine. But active participation is encouraged. By all means feel free to do either. :)
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: A show with everything but Yul Bryn

Postby elora » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:23 pm

Did he say lurking is ok? Personally, I'm partial to skulking. I've always wondered wha skulking actually looked like, being a visual person. But, I digress.

I have skulked in here to make one very insightful and Important point.

Why no Yul Brinner? I like the man. That accent, that mysticism, that natty dancing and singing in the King and I. Who can resist?

Alright...I admit. That perhaps wasn't insightful. It may have had petulant undertones. But I maintain it was Important.

On a more serious note, no easy feat for Yul was the epitome of the serious, pensive man, did you were a poet, oh Poet? Really? Truly?

I mean, poetry is HARD! And though the answer may have been obvious in your chosen TORC avatar, I refer you to Exhibit A (me).

I am not from Valinor, and I in no way resemble most of my characters in story. I am not of the Ainur - not nearly wise, forbearing or considered or judicious enough. Or immortal. Important point that. Must remember it. I. Am. Not. Immortal.

So, a real life poet (even if you're not poeting at the moment). I am impressed.

And suddenly curious...what is the verb for the act of writing poetry. I am sure it isn't poeting. It can't be as generic as writing or composing. Is there a particular verb? There should be.

Composing poetry is worthy of one.

Alrighty, I shall pipe down and return to lurking. Hopefully it will be lurking and not skulking. But how can I know? I mean, what does skulking look like? More or less furtive? Are you permitted to grin deviously?
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: A show with everything but Yul Bryn

Postby jilbo_baggins_revisited » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:18 am

I was sick. Now I'm back. Don't everyone cheer at once. :evil:


Ok...

*cheers at twice* :P

Glad your feeling better :)

Welcome, RobertEvert :)

Elora - you don't seem very sinister to me *looks around pusillanimously* (My word of the day :wink: )

As for happy writers. Does that imply that one is happy to write? Because I would be happy to write merrily all day long, but I can't seem to find the words of late :roll:

And Wil - Why would you STOP writing poetry? Once a poet...always a poet if you ask me...but you didn't so...

The act of writing poetry is referred to as 'poeticizing' methinks...generally but I like the terms prosing or rhythmizing

I also love the word doggerel. So perhaps doggerreling? I just like how it sounds...weird huh? :roll:

Are you permitted to grin deviously?


or mischievously?
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: A show with everything but Yul Bryn

Postby Silwen » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:28 am

Oh dear. I thought nobody was writing in this thread anymore because I stopped getting notifications though those from other threads still appeared in my inbox. Woops. I have skimmed most of the posts I missed and hope to be more "with it" from now on.

Hello to all those who have joined!

Will, I may have a book that is published, but since it is non-fiction it doesn't mean as much to me as if it had been something a little more original than that. :D
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: A show with everything but Yul Bryn

Postby A_Simple_Poet » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:13 am

Did he say lurking is ok? Personally, I'm partial to skulking. I've always wondered wha skulking actually looked like, being a visual person. But, I digress. I have skulked in here to make one very insightful and Important point. Why no Yul Brinner? I like the man. That accent, that mysticism, that natty dancing and singing in the King and I. Who can resist?


Skulking IS permitted. Sulking too, as long as it's done well. But I too love Yul Brynner and the Murray Head Bangkok Chess song that popularized that byline. I needed something less than Christmasy to keep us on topic since I can't seem to do so myself due to unforseen truancy. I will try to do better ... :shock:

So, a real life poet (even if you're not poeting at the moment). I am impressed.


Don't be. I'm not. More accurately stated: a real life unpublished retired poet. Did not mean to mislead. But I did meet Billy Collins ... twice. Does that count? :?

I mean, poetry is HARD! And though the answer may have been obvious in your chosen TORC avatar


It is indeed. And after a decade of not doing it well, I stopped. As to the moniker, I sometimes dabble in Irony ... which helps identify me a true literary Modernist, the best school of literary thought out there only don't say it too loudly. :oops:

I shall pipe down and return to lurking. Hopefully it will be lurking and not skulking. But how can I know? I mean, what does skulking look like? More or less furtive? Are you permitted to grin deviously?


You may do whatever you please ... within reason (or even mild insanity) Elora. I've decided to like you. Revel in my unabashed conceit. :lol:

Ok...*cheers at twice* Glad your feeling better


Thank you. :D

And Wil - Why would you STOP writing poetry? Once a poet...always a poet if you ask me...but you didn't so...


Unless you're Ray Bradbury, it's hard to be both. Mind, I did not say impossible. Hemingway was terrible at poetry. TS Eliot did not attempt prose. Poets are etherial artists whereas Novelists have to plot things and hope for (or seek) inspiration. At least this is how it works in The Will World. Let's just say, I am personally not that talented to do well with both. :(

The act of writing poetry is referred to as 'poeticizing' methinks...generally but I like the terms prosing or rhythmizing


I call it crafting verse. But that's two words when one should probably work better. Again, the lack of talent ... :cry2:

Elora - you don't seem very sinister to me


I'm remain unconvinced. :twisted:

Oh dear. I thought nobody was writing in this thread anymore because I stopped getting notifications though those from other threads still appeared in my inbox. Woops. I have skimmed most of the posts I missed and hope to be more "with it" from now on.


Ahem ... It's one of MY threads. As if there can be any doubt that I don't boil the blood of someone at least once a week. See, this is well deserved: :mightysquid:

Question of the hour: Are short stories inferior to the novel in any way? Or vice versa. And if so, how? Which gets more overall respect in the opinion of the casual reader. Let's try not to get too overanalytical with this. I pose the question because it leads to ... wait for it ... a revelation. :Q
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Re: The Writer's Shrine

Postby A_Simple_Poet » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:20 am

Double post :doh:
Last edited by A_Simple_Poet on Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: A show with everything but Yul Bryn

Postby Silwen » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:45 am

A_Simple_Poet wrote: ... which helps identify me a true literary Modernist, the best school of literary thought out there only don't say it too loudly. :oops:


:mightysquid: :mightysquid: :mightysquid: :mightysquid: :mightysquid: :mightysquid:

Unless you're Ray Bradbury, it's hard to be both. Mind, I did not say impossible. Hemingway was terrible at poetry. TS Eliot did not attempt prose. Poets are etherial artists whereas Novelists have to plot things and hope for (or seek) inspiration. At least this is how it works in The Will World. Let's just say, I am personally not that talented to do well with both. :(

Ondaatje is excellent at both.

Question of the hour: Are short stories inferior to the novel in any way? Or vice versa. And if so, how? Which gets more overall respect in the opinion of the casual reader. Let's try not to get too overanalytical with this. I pose the question because it leads to ... wait for it ... a revelation. :Q

Of course the answer has to be that neither is superior or inferior. People have personal preferences. I have had the impression for quite a while that novels are read more by the masses while short stories seem to be for the more distinguishing readers who appreciate the art of short fiction. I suspect that novels are simply more popular because it is the most commonly read and thus most familiar and accessible genre. In my opinion, whichever genre you choose, you can do great things with it. You'll just have to work differently.
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: Rhosgobel Rabbits on the menu ...

Postby elora » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:42 pm

Hmmmm....must work harder on my inoffensive, hapless, bumbling innocent fool facade....


Oops, I said that out loud, didn't I....

I suspect that whether it is writing or crafting verse, it's as much about the mind and creative spirit that underlies rather than whether something is published, or is even deemed "good".

I cannot craft verse. I've tried. I've studied it. I've admired it! As a dancer and musician, I have an ear for rhythm and lyricism. As a writer, I have a love of words. And yet, I cannot even begin to connect these qualities to even attempt bad, unpublished verse. I rhyme purely by accident, usually involving something puerile, foolish and crude, and then collapse into childish giggles and wide eyed delight, "ooooooh, I rhymed!" It's a travesty no one should have to endure.

I've never met a poet either - in real life.

So, Poet, I remain impressed. For one, you were once a poet and probably remain one (albeit frustrated) for such things are writ in our souls.

Now, who wants those Rhosgobel Rabbits! I am ordinarily a rational person (no, honest, it is true), but after seeing that whole Radagast thing last night, I've a mind for rabbit stew, rabbit hats, rabbit lamp shades...and then we can get started on the Wizard.

Dangnammit!

What is wrong with screenplays nowadays? Must a movie be pre-formated for video/online gaming now to be profitable?

*sharpen's knives and drops innocent facade*
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: Rhosgobel Rabbits on the menu ...

Postby PatriotBlade » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:38 pm

I don't think there's anything inferior, or superior about either style (short or novels). I, however, have difficulty writing shorts. Every time I had to write short stories in English class, my teacher would hand it back to me with large, red letters across the top, This is NOT a short story! This is an episode! I always tried to squeeze in too much back story.

I suppose I should share some examples of my writing: My poetry can be found in old Bard's Guild Festival threads and on wattpad.com along with my fanfics under the pen name, Haddie Brice.
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: Rhosgobel Rabbits on the menu ...

Postby Silwen » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:52 pm

I must point out here that poetry does not equal rhyme. :nono:
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: Rhosgobel Rabbits on the menu ...

Postby PatriotBlade » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:54 pm

Agreed! Bad rhymes does NOT a poem make!
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: Rhosgobel Rabbits on the menu ...

Postby A_Simple_Poet » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:01 pm

Ha! Silwen. I totally deserved those squids! Wondered if you'd catch that!! :roflmbo:


Ondaatje is excellent at both.


I suppose I can concede that. :lol:

I have had the impression for quite a while that novels are read more by the masses while short stories seem to be for the more distinguishing readers who appreciate the art of short fiction.


I agree. In fact some would argue it's a bit of snobbery. High horse literary types brandishing mock turtle necks, berets, and their smoking cigarette of choice would often chide the average reader for reading novels instead of trying to appreciate the hidden 'art' of the short story. Hemingway, Pound, Joyce, Woolf, and the other ... sighs as he writes this ... MODERNS, are the true founders of such nonsense. While these guys (and to some extent the Beat Generation that followed) loved to extol the virtues of their experimental writing, they failed to see that pulps generated by Hammett, Chandler, Howard, Lovecraft, and others were outselling their exclusive high brow literature.

I admire their talent and efforts to improve the craft of fiction, but when Joyce proclaimed that Finnegan's Wake (I think) KILLED the novel, in my mind that was nothing to brag about. Only high school juniors forced to read those works look at them these days while the stuff of Lovecraft, Howard, Bradbury and the rest of the pulp writers are on the big screens. Ultimately it goes back to what you wrote: People have personal preferences. :)


So, Poet, I remain impressed. For one, you were once a poet and probably remain one (albeit frustrated) for such things are writ in our souls.


Aww, shucks Elora. I'm speechless. Well ... only enough to agree in the slightest of terms. Especially with the frustrated part. Any poetry I produce always feels manufactured and not in the sense of adhering to form or rhyme. Because as Silwen points out and you probably know, rhyme is not vital to poetry. Nor is meter. I had that inner fight long ago when I was firmly in the camp of the Neo-Formalist trying to crank out vivacious villanelles and heavy gravity ghazals just for kicks. My enthusiasm for the art of poetry is unwavering, but I doubt I'll ever make a serious effort at the craft again. As such, just call me Will. 8)

I don't think there's anything inferior, or superior about either style (short or novels).


Well said, Heather. (By the way, if you haven't already ... check out poets.org. Far superior in quality to the site you referenced though they don't let you publish there.) You've articulated my revelation. Though the crux of it was that I'm going to try my hand at shorts for the new year - at least at the beginning, before launching into any fresh novel effort. That being said, I have an idea for a new novel series in mind. :shock:

Today, my therapist told me that my guilt of not having produced a great deal of manuscripts over the last two and a half decades is no reason for me to think that I'm not a writer. She urged me to consider that writing is a soul deep sort of state and that writers can be writers when they aren't writing. Before I give my thoughts on this, I'm more interested in yours ...
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: It's the End of the World as we kno

Postby PatriotBlade » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:42 pm

I like her sentiment and I agree, mostly. A writer, yes, completely. But an author. That title implies that you've taken "writing" to an all new level and have made it your career choice, and thus it must be approached more like a job if you intend to succeed. I think that is my biggest fear... That were I to ever be able to write as an "author", then I would become burnt out on one of my earliest loves and that frightens me, for as I've said before, writing is what keeps me sane and from hurting people, because I use my characters to vent my feelings, instead of taking my frustrations out on the real people around me.
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: It's the End of the World as we kno

Postby Silwen » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:57 am

writing is what keeps me sane and from hurting people

I hope that is not nearly as sinister as it sounds!

I've never considered there to be a difference between "author" and "writer", mainly because my other native language does not distinguish between the two. Well, it does have two different words for the same thing, but there isn't much of a difference. To be "author", as I see it, would imply that the person in question has already published something and can thereby be identified as the author of that particular work. A "writer" is in the process of writing, but may also have published work already. I am intrigued by the way we attribute different meanings to the same words we use.

Today, my therapist told me that my guilt of not having produced a great deal of manuscripts over the last two and a half decades is no reason for me to think that I'm not a writer. She urged me to consider that writing is a soul deep sort of state and that writers can be writers when they aren't writing.

She is write about writing being "a soul deep sort of state". In a way she is also right about writers being writers when they aren't actually writing - but only as long as they do end up writing in the end, in my opinion. What's the use of soul-searching as a writer if you still cannot put the results to paper in the end?
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: It's the End of the World as we kno

Postby Jilbo_Baggins » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:19 pm

I call it crafting verse. But that's two words when one should probably work better.


Probably why this thread initially contained word smithing. And might I add, crafting verse also sounds waaaaay to SERIOUS :lol:

Well, I happen to like your poetry which I have read in Parm's thread on numerous occasions and I write short stories, attempted botched novels and poetry and would never dare to choose between them. Why limit your abilities that way? It's stifling and it sounds torturous to me.

What's the use of soul-searching as a writer if you still cannot put the results to paper in the end?


Very good point, Silwen :D

And I would definitely need meds if I could not release my inner turmoil with poetry :shock:

vivacious villanelles and heavy gravity ghazals


Now that sounds like crafting verse. :P

I don't think there's anything inferior, or superior about either style (short or novels). I, however, have difficulty writing shorts. Every time I had to write short stories in English class, my teacher would hand it back to me with large, red letters across the top, This is NOT a short story! This is an episode! I always tried to squeeze in too much back story.


I have the same problem Heather...I'm very wordy and I often give way too much information too soon which is catastrophic when attempting any sort of long story and lacks discipline when attempting shorts. :(

Today, my therapist told me that my guilt of not having produced a great deal of manuscripts over the last two and a half decades is no reason for me to think that I'm not a writer. She urged me to consider that writing is a soul deep sort of state and that writers can be writers when they aren't writing. Before I give my thoughts on this, I'm more interested in yours ...


That is like saying you are soulless if you have writers block and since when was writing a state? It makes it sound like mental illness or suspended animation or something. If anything, perhaps it's mind control. =:) Which may explain why some writers have such big egos :wink:

To me writing is a very unique talent. The ability to share, release and draw others into your world/imagination where they are content to temporarily escape from reality is truly a gift. Not everyone can do it...so it's pretty awesome. I think it is ok to concede that a writer is prone to dry spells and/or overflowing wells depending on what is going on in their lives at any given moment. And writers have a tendency to burn out - there are no rules to this writing thing its unpredictable :D

Maybe the difference between an author and a writer is an author laughs his arse all the way to the bank whilst many of us writers are still standing in line with a glass jar full of loose change :cry:
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: It's the End of the World as we kno

Postby elora » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:13 am

Her chin rests on her forearm, which in turn lies across the wooden bar. Her free hand drums a belligerent tattoo upon the surface. It makes the scattered crumbs of earlier apocalyptic snacks tremble. Her eyes drift to a clock on the nearby wall. It shows nothing remarkable. Only the time. Some good hours after or before the end of the world, dependant on which New Age messianic "expert" facebook page she describes. That reminds her and she glances at her nearby phone. Activating it would require her to lift her chin from her arm and exert more energy than drumming her fingers would. However, she had earlier subscribed to an early warning text message service for eventualities like this. No alert had chimed. She eyes the large pile of supplies she has hoarded in the corner. The debate within her mind is the same old tired saws.

"Whoever said the end of the world might be exciting was cataclysmically mistaken," she mutters and then another idea dawns. She cannot believe she did not think of it earlier.

She draws a deep breath as the words gather in her mind.
"I'm bored," she announces with crisp and jaunty cockiness. Then she holds her breath.

Moments trickle past at their same inexorably slow pace. She lifts her eyes to the heavens. No clouds of doom. It didn't work. Even tempting the fates had not produced end of the world excitement. She realises she is holding her breath and expels it in disgust.


"This sucks...now I'll have to find something to do on a Friday night at short notice. In this town. Worst. Disaster. Ever."

She picks her chin up from her forearm and leans back in the chair she's occupied for most of the 21st. A list of possible engagements is racing through her mind then her eyes return to the stockpiled supplies for the cataclysm that wasn't. A slow smile spreads across her face as she takes in the sudden bounty available for her. What to do on a Friday night?

"Gluttony," she murmurs and she rises to advance on the abundant stores of food and alcohol she had set aside.


Didn't do any writing today. That should suffice. Happy End of the World Day for those who have yet to broach December 21st.
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: It's the End of the World as we kno

Postby A_Simple_Poet » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:14 pm

Well, I happen to like your poetry which I have read in Parm's thread on numerous occasions and I write short stories, attempted botched novels and poetry and would never dare to choose between them. Why limit your abilities that way? It's stifling and it sounds torturous to me.


Thank you, though that's probably the zenith of my poetic talent samples. Parm is the true master. Your last sentence is a truism that Silwen has been trying to tell me for years. I just can't seem to accept it. >-O

To be "author", as I see it, would imply that the person in question has already published something and can thereby be identified as the author of that particular work. A "writer" is in the process of writing, but may also have published work already.


Maybe the difference between an author and a writer is an author laughs his arse all the way to the bank whilst many of us writers are still standing in line with a glass jar full of loose change.


Two solid definitions in my opinion. :o

Moments trickle past at their same inexorably slow pace. She lifts her eyes to the heavens. No clouds of doom. It didn't work. Even tempting the fates had not produced end of the world excitement. She realises she is holding her breath and expels it in disgust.


Guano crazy. And I was feeling exactly the same in the sense that I'm tired of these flash in the pan Ragnarok appointments that never happen. Just let the Tralfamadorians push the button already (Vonnegut reference) :rofl:

Speaking of Vonnegut and Tralfamadorians, I have shifted into Space Opera mode over the holidays. These transformations are generally lycanthropic and utterly unpredictable. I can be in the middle of a Sword & Sorcery fiction project (which I was) and completely lose interest and jump into something else clear across the spectrum. :x

I cannot discern whether this means I'm just not: 1. a dedicated writer, 2. a slacker, 3. bored with my own stories and subject matter, or 4. all of the above. It's not so much Writer's Block and it is wildly oscillitatiing and inconsistant discipline to a project. Fortunately, I am developing "settings" and "backstory" for characters and plots in both Space Opera and Sword & Sorcery genres. At one point though, I must needs write Write WRITE! :shock:
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: It's the End of the World as we kno

Postby Silwen » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:56 am

A_Simple_Poet wrote:
Maybe the difference between an author and a writer is an author laughs his arse all the way to the bank whilst many of us writers are still standing in line with a glass jar full of loose change.


Two solid definitions in my opinion. :o

Except that I can tell you from personal experience that authors don't generally "laugh their arse all the way to the bank", sadly. Writing isn't automatically lucrative.

Will, I told you! Embrace the dark side! We have cookies. Poetry and prose need not be seperated. I am sure they like each other's company.

I just realised that perhaps if you stopped refering to writer's block as Writer's Block it would be less ... blocking. :lol:
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: Crazy Guano Style

Postby elora » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:53 pm

Poetry and prose need not be seperated. I am sure they like each other's company.


I am reasonably confident that the Prof would agree!

My writing has taken a brief hiatus, unsurprising in its timing when I consider it retrospect. It was brief enough that I didn't notice it until yesterday. That too is unsurprising. I've always known I lack the discipline to be a writer just as I lack the talent to be an author. This Christmas was a particularly poignant one, bitter sweet and melancholic - a herald of an irrevocable change, proof that things really will never be the same. I suppose, with all of "That" going on, it's not surprising that I conserved resources and left writing be for a while.

Back now, though, and starting to consider new idea, new tales...I can see the end of Legacy and I, perforce, wonder what will be next (and whether anyone could give a toss :wink: )

I have been toying with an idea to do JRRT's End of Days for a few years now. This recent flash in the pan apocalypse has seen that idea re-float itself. Or, dare I say it, perhaps something created in my own universe...

Oh, while I left writing be for a little while, I finally got around to reading "Alif the Unseen". Loved it to pieces. Best urban fantasy thus far, I believe. And the writing style! Inspired!

Worth checking out, if only to be disappointed after my hyperbole. :P

May 2013 be kind to you whether you be poet, writer or author or all of those and a great deal more besides.
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: Crazy Guano Style

Postby A_Simple_Poet » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:56 am

My writing objectives for 2013? Well since it is TIMELY, though possibly cliche, I thought we would "go there" on the cusp of the New Year. Be warned: Anyone who uses the word 'Resolution' will be hounded as thoroughly as I was for using the word "serious" and also savagely flogged with a wet noodle.

Back to the point. Feel free to share yours, if you have any. (I suspect most of the current participants at the Shrine are about to chide me for even broaching the subject at all).

I have a few:

1. More ink on the page, less beer in the fridge.
2. Channel my inner Dickinson and dispense with the ellipses in favor of random dashes.
3. "Like Proust, be an old Tea Head of time" ~ Jack Kerouac.
4. Try to figure out what #3 actually means.
5. Be faithful to my character sketch notebooks.
6. Maintain an active and contributing presence on TORC's best new Scriptorium thread: The Writer's Shrine.
7. Try not to get kicked out for unabashed hubris from TORC's best new Scriptorium thread: The Writer's Shrine.
8. Focus more on writing chapters and short stories with novel as less of a big picture.
9. Plot. Because two decades not plotting hasn't worked out.
10. Strawberry fields forever.

Anyway, in the immortal words of Hoggle the Dwarf (A Labyrinth ... and by extension, Ziggy Stardust reference) "THEM'S MINE!" Do feel free to share yours. And, most of all, Happy New Year. Thanks for making the Writer's Shrine more successful than the Writer's Cafe has been in the last 3 years. :)
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: Flying Blind on a Rocket Cycle

Postby LalaithUrwen » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:55 am

The mere sight of this thread and its topic just bogs me down, and I fought the urge to just read and walk away. That's how I feel about most things like this nowadays. I'm too distracted, too busy, too chaotic inside to write anything. And if you add the qualification "serious writer" to the mix, well, forget it! I already don't think I'm any good, so that just depresses me more, which means--no writing.

:nono:

That being said, I'm on board if someone can come up with a plan or a challenge. NaNoWriMo killed my arm and shoulder a few years back, so I can't take on that much typing in such a short time period. But, if anyone has any ideas or suggestions, I'm open to them.

I already prefer dashes to ellipses. :)
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: Flying Blind on a Rocket Cycle

Postby Silwen » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:29 am

I almost did not recognise you in TORC guise, Lali! I am not even sure if we knew each other on TORC before meeting on the other board.

Well, I don't have any objectives when it comes to writing (or any other area, really). The end of the year tends to be depressing most of the time unless the year has been extraordinarily good. Which this one has not. :P Could have been much worse though! All I am looking forward to tonight is the fondue I am making.

As far as I remember, I haven't written a single thing in 2012. How's that fo being a serious writer and author? :D
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: Flying Blind on a Rocket Cycle

Postby LalaithUrwen » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:25 am

:D I don't know if we knew each other here either. I was on Manwe all of the time, and then I pretty much gave that up after the great blow-up of whatever year that was. 2005? If I post here at all, it's usually in an alliance thread with some lovely ladies I did several moots with. (Middle-aged Crazy--when I started there, I didn't qualify for that moniker. Now I do. :( )

Anyway, if you count messageboard posts and Facebook statuses, along with the occasional blog post, then I've written this year. If you want actual writing, then, no, I haven't written anything either. It is depressing. :(

I do have the story I started to write with NaNoWriMo, and I felt like it was pretty decent. I wonder if I should dust that off and give it another go--at my own pace this time. ??
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: Flying Blind on a Rocket Cycle

Postby Silwen » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:59 am

That sounds like a good idea, Lali.

I like going through some old writing once in a while. Usually, I find lots of things I would write differently now and maybe I will make changes at some point. But then again the reason I haven't made changes yet is that I am afraid I may make it worse instead of better!

There are a few unfinished things I still have somewhere, but they really are bad. :lol:
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: Flying Blind on a Rocket Cycle

Postby Jilbo_Baggins » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:21 am

1. More ink on the page, less beer in the fridge.
2. Channel my inner Dickinson and dispense with the ellipses in favor of random dashes.
3. "Like Proust, be an old Tea Head of time" ~ Jack Kerouac.
4. Try to figure out what #3 actually means.
5. Be faithful to my character sketch notebooks.
6. Maintain an active and contributing presence on TORC's best new Scriptorium thread: The Writer's Shrine.
7. Try not to get kicked out for unabashed hubris from TORC's best new Scriptorium thread: The Writer's Shrine.
8. Focus more on writing chapters and short stories with novel as less of a big picture.
9. Plot. Because two decades not plotting hasn't worked out.
10. Strawberry fields forever.


Well I disagree with 1, unless of course 'beer' puts you to sleep on your keyboard. I tend to get animated after a few beers and am excited enough to actually write a little. Perhaps just a limitation on the number of beers? :happydance:

5 and 9 for sure :) Focus on sections of your world settings and/or players. What makes them tick and what might happen here or there. Sometimes in between bouts of wb I start mapping and drawing to expand on characters and areas. Since I am a visual writer, this helps to recharge me. It also forces me to tighten up the characters, places and events forcing me to stay true to them :wink:

I often write odd bits and pieces hoping to string them together at some point during dull moments in progress or as lead ins. If you write enough of them, you could be well on your way to a breakthrough in plot progression and in turn...a great NEW novel. You see my problem now? :hair:

Thats just my two sense worth. Probably not worth a fortune since I'm still in line at the bank :P

"May 2013 bring a more lucrative and fruitful writing experience for us all. And bless us, every one!" :drink:
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: Flying Blind on a Rocket Cycle

Postby elora » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:38 pm

I read some quotes by George R. R. Martin the other day. The Game of Thrones will never win any major literary prizes and to be fair, George doesn't particularly care. While very popular of recent years, I've been underwhelmed with the writing since I first encountered it (when the first book was published). At the risk of being flogged by a wet noodle for my anti-zeitgeist heresy, I put the first book down, yawned and shrugged. I really did not care what happened next. So, I was slow to return to the next book. In fact, it took me 16 years to be bothered with the second book, for I read the first in 1996.

Winter is coming? So? I remain vastly underwhelmed. It's not a bad book, but I do not see the greatness that some many speak of. In fact, it reminds me strongly of Jordan's Wheel of Time. Multiple characters, multiple plots, some vague hint of an overarching tale, lots of battles. Martin's was much better written. Grittier, more in the vein of Cook and Erikson in terms of dark, realistic, gritty fantasy for battle scenes. Not nearly so much time wasted on describing what people were wearing. There, now I have offended Martin and Jordan acolytes, I shall move onto the point du jour.

Martin's books rely on a tapestry of characters, events and plots that may (or may not) converge into an ultimate outcome (or semblance thereof). At the moment, I am shaping a idle tale (Legacy) with a co-writer (he actually exists, not imaginary at all) and it too has multiple characters and threads of events and plots. We spend a lot of time (which is OK given we're married) talking about how to shape the direction of the tale we are writing. Which branches to nurture, in which direction, which to prune. I am a natural planner. It's what I do. Default setting. Blame the Girl Guides movement. Be Prepared.

So, when idly reading these quotes by Martin, I encountered something that really, really irritated me. Got up my nose:

I hate outlines. I have a broad sense of where the story is going; I know the end, I know the end of the principal characters, and I know the major turning points and events from the books, the climaxes for each book, but I don't necessarily know each twist and turn along the way. That's something I discover in the course of writing and that's what makes writing enjoyable. I think if I outlined comprehensively and stuck to the outline the actual writing would be boring.



You can visit the full article herehttp://io9.com/5971432/great-quotes-about-writing-from-game-of-thrones-author-george-rr-martin

Yes, that's right. The arrogant sot knows all of those things for all of those characters and story lines.

Just who the heck does he think he is? Hmmmm?

Outrageous!

We don't outline everything, plot it all out. We plan (well, I plan and my co-writer plays along for the most part). But even so, no idea of the end of the principal characters, no idea of the turning points. None....all of that evolves as we write - as we both write from inside our characters for this tale. The question we ask is, were we this person in this predicament at this time with this history, what would we do next?

Now, the result is a work that holds together good enough for the collaborative writing expectations and environment of message boards like this. If it were to be a published work, a book, it is rough and badly knitted and sewn together. It would need so much editing as to render it unrecognisable. But, what irritates me is how on earth can that man know so much about so much? Sure, he may be really, really smart.

He writes from within the characters as well, by his own admission. He, like my writer and I, work hard to round characters out and make them robust and three dimensional constructs. I just bet they surprise him just like we get surprised by our characters. But there he is, preening like he is the omniscient master who knows all the important stuff and none of it, the brass tacks of it all, really surprises him because he's figured it out already.

Well, Georgie boy, I have this to say to you: "Liar, liar, pants on fire!"

Ha! Double ha!

As if!

OK - tantrum done now. Commence wet noodle flogging if you must and I promise to patiently endure it and not dwell on all the double entendres and puns "wet noodle" could be twisted to serve. :D
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: Flying Blind on a Rocket Cycle

Postby A_Simple_Poet » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:51 am

A Lali sighting! AND THIS TIME I KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!!!!!!! :thppt:

I often write odd bits and pieces hoping to string them together at some point during dull moments in progress or as lead ins. If you write enough of them, you could be well on your way to a breakthrough in plot progression and in turn...a great NEW novel. You see my problem now?


As a matter of fact, I do. We REACH. I'm doing my best to seperate myself from this mindset and allow my "odd bits" to serve more as sketches which MAY or MAY NOT have anything to do with a larger piece of writing later. Still, it's always been a struggle to just write a scene or sketch with the thought that it might not be a keeper. :(


I have offended Martin and Jordan acolytes, I shall move onto the point du jour.


:mightysquid:

Martin's was much better written. Grittier, more in the vein of Cook and Erikson in terms of dark, realistic, gritty fantasy for battle scenes. Not nearly so much time wasted on describing what people were wearing.


You've redeemed yourself. And I hasten to add that Martin overreaches with food as opposed to apparel. One gets these sense he does not eat well, or eats too well. Eats when he should be writing Winds of Winter. Pictures I've seen tend to reinforce the latter theory. :shock:

The Game of Thrones will never win any major literary prizes and to be fair, George doesn't particularly care.


A proper attitude for writer's who take themselves too - SERIOUSLY??????? That WORD again. If G.R.R. doesn't care I happen to agree with his line of thinking here and suspect you may do so as well. And how's this for blasphemy - there's nothing great about Tolkien's writing either, but I still admire every word. :twisted:

Martin's books rely on a tapestry of characters, events and plots that may (or may not) converge into an ultimate outcome (or semblance thereof). At the moment, I am shaping a idle tale (Legacy) with a co-writer (he actually exists, not imaginary at all) and it too has multiple characters and threads of events and plots.


And there's the eternal rub. Does plot edify character or vice versa? There is constant debate over this and I happen to be on the side of character - as were the literary Moderns. The literary Post Moderns would likely shun both character and plot but they reside in an inferior school of literary thought. *ducks* Martin's technique (stolen perhaps from Faulker with POV chapter emphasis - I do the same in my fiction) arguably saves time AND allows the writer to slip into the mind of the character even if it is a lazy brand of writing. :nono:

An aside -

For those of you new to this:

1. Silwen is a staunch post modernist, presuming there IS such a thing whereas I am not. We've chided each other over it during a near DECADE a friendship and she hasn't killed me yet likely because there's an ocean betwixt us.
2. Squids are badges of dishonor. I throw them at people when I strongly disagree and expect the same treatment in return. Much of this is revealed over in TORC's Archives of The Mad Poet's Empire - a storied thread from long long ago.
3. First rule about The Mad Poet's Empire is that you don't ask about The Mad Poet's Empire.

Back to the point. :o

Yes, that's right. The arrogant sot knows all of those things for all of those characters and story lines. Just who the heck does he think he is? Hmmmm? Outrageous!

We don't outline everything, plot it all out. We plan (well, I plan and my co-writer plays along for the most part). But even so, no idea of the end of the principal characters, no idea of the turning points. None....all of that evolves as we write - as we both write from inside our characters for this tale. The question we ask is, were we this person in this predicament at this time with this history, what would we do next?


It was testy in the beginning, but I knew I liked you. :lol:

OK - tantrum done now. Commence wet noodle flogging if you must and I promise to patiently endure it and not dwell on all the double entendres and puns "wet noodle" could be twisted to serve.


I don't have time to properly lambast you for your tones of Song of Ice and Fire blasphemy - though many of your literary points about Martin are salient. Rest assured, a Lannister always pays his debts. :wink:
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: Flying Blind on a Rocket Cycle

Postby Silwen » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:31 pm

A_Simple_Poet wrote:An aside -

For those of you new to this:

1. Silwen is a staunch post modernist, presuming there IS such a thing whereas I am not. We've chided each other over it during a near DECADE a friendship and she hasn't killed me yet likely because there's an ocean betwixt us.


It helps. :D

Honestly, I wish there wasn't an ocean between us! I bet we would have some good argu-... erm, discussions.

I had a look at my Goodreads list of books and, if it is right, I seem to only have read 3 books in 2012. :? I know I really haven't been reading much since becoming Dr Silwen, but 3? Not sure if that's correct. Well, I started a few others that I never finished, I have to admit.

Last night I was quite surprised by a sudden idea for a poem. I don't know if I will write it down eventually or not, but a line suddenly came into my head that I think is worth putting to paper at some point. The line reminded me of my favourite quote from - Cover your ears, Will! - The English Patient by Michael Ondaatje:

“We die containing a richness of lovers and tribes, tastes we have swallowed, bodies we have plunged into and swum up as if rivers of wisdom, characters we have climbed into as if trees, fears we have hidden in as if caves.

I wish for all this to be marked on by body when I am dead. I believe in such cartography - to be marked by nature, not just to label ourselves on a map like the names of rich men and women on buildings. We are communal histories, communal books. We are not owned or monogamous in our taste or experience.”
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Re: The Writer's Shrine: Flying Blind on a Rocket Cycle

Postby elora » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:51 pm

I don't have time to properly lambast you for your tones of Song of Ice and Fire blasphemy - though many of your literary points about Martin are salient. Rest assured, a Lannister always pays his debts.


Ooooooh - I tingle with anticipation! :lol:

One of my strengths and failings as a writer is that I chose to write from character perspectives first and foremost. This is a strength because it supports the shaping of solid characters and, I am pleased and relieved to say, I've shaped a number of characters over the years that have been solid enough for people to engage with. Real, breathing, human beings that identify, wonder about and invest time in these imaginary characters of mine. There, I feel, is the magic of writing.

The flaw my approach is that any tale needs more than one character. As the cast grows, my focus becomes fractured and I find I am often caught by my slavish bond to my character. They determine the next steps, the twists and turns, at a rate they choose. I lose control over the plot, tension and narrative arc starts to erode and before I know it, my characters have led me into a dead end alley at the depth of night and their knives are out. At that point, realising that I have been hijacked by imaginary characters and in sheer desperation, I ruthlessly kill them off - usually employing deus ex machina to achieve my ends. Lazy writer, thy name is elora! :roll:

So, on the one hand I can see Martin's dilemma when writing multiple points of view. You get locked into a "voice" that bleeds over to your other characters and you often have to re-write to ensure your character remains distinct from the rest of the cast. Transition from one perspective to another is difficult to achieve smoothly. On the other hand, I cannot see how any writer can be so wedded to character POV crafting, have all the major twists and turns and the end points for these characters mapped out and claim to be a mainly organic, take it as it comes sort of writer. It seems...contradictory to me.

Of course, perhaps he is neither one or the other. Perhaps that is why he has become a successful author, while I remain dabbling, lazy, distracted writer. Perhaps he has mastered plot and character.

Now, as to the more serious matter...

And how's this for blasphemy - there's nothing great about Tolkien's writing either, but I still admire every word.


Sir, my noodle is soaked. In what, you shall find out for yourself...for I am a Wilding! :wink:
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