Excerpts from my "Annals of the Northern Kings"

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Postby Valandil3430 » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:37 pm

Oh - and then this note rightly goes after the whole:

- - - - - - - - - -

* some dates differ from those shown in ‘The Peoples of Middle Earth’. In the dates there, Elendil was born in 3119 SA, and Isildur in 3209 SA. The alternate dates in this account support the tales that Amandil was Ar-Pharazon’s contemporary (Ar-Pharazon having been born in 3118 SA). The other difference is for Aranarth – the text cited gives his birth in 1938 (PoME), but all accounts agree that his parents, Arvedui and Firiel, were wedded in 1940 – so the date of 1942 as a birth year seems more logical.

- - - - - - - - - -

Enjoy! :)
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Postby RavenTinuviel » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:47 am

By saying "all" accounts, what exactly do you mean? You note that in 'PoME', it gives Aranarth's birth as 1938. I assume when you say "by all accounts" you mean this to be Appendix A in Return of the King:

"It was at this time that Arvedui, heir of Araphant wedded Fíriel daughter of Ondoher (1940)"

So your claim of changing the date of the birth of Aranarth as "more logical" is really your way of making the story more moral for your consumption. With these actual published dates, it is more logical that during a visit in late 1937 or early 1938 by Prince Arvedui to the palace of King Ondoher, Arvedui and Fíriel were smitten by the first sight of each other, and they talk and they spend time together and they fall in love, even while discussion of an arranged marriage are being discussed between Kings Ondoher and Araphant. Before Arvedui leaves for the north, they unwisely have a rendezvous in the night, maybe rationalizing it in the heat of the moment by thinking that with dark times ahead and war looming on the horizon, they would be bringing the lineage of Elendil back together with a common heir. So when Fíriel is found to be with child, she proclaims it to be the child of Arvedui, but instead of bringing unity, it brings scandal. The marriage is arranged to take place as soon as possible afterward.

Yes, the published dates do lead one into writing up a great dramatic fanfic.
=:)
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Postby Valandil3430 » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:53 pm

RavenTinuviel wrote:By saying "all" accounts, what exactly do you mean? You note that in 'PoME', it gives Aranarth's birth as 1938. I assume when you say "by all accounts" you mean this to be Appendix A in Return of the King:

"It was at this time that Arvedui, heir of Araphant wedded Fíriel daughter of Ondoher (1940)"

So your claim of changing the date of the birth of Aranarth as "more logical" is really your way of making the story more moral for your consumption. With these actual published dates, it is more logical that during a visit in late 1937 or early 1938 by Prince Arvedui to the palace of King Ondoher, Arvedui and Fíriel were smitten by the first sight of each other, and they talk and they spend time together and they fall in love, even while discussion of an arranged marriage are being discussed between Kings Ondoher and Araphant. Before Arvedui leaves for the north, they unwisely have a rendezvous in the night, maybe rationalizing it in the heat of the moment by thinking that with dark times ahead and war looming on the horizon, they would be bringing the lineage of Elendil back together with a common heir. So when Fíriel is found to be with child, she proclaims it to be the child of Arvedui, but instead of bringing unity, it brings scandal. The marriage is arranged to take place as soon as possible afterward.

Yes, the published dates do lead one into writing up a great dramatic fanfic.
=:)


"More moral for my consumption"? Maybe. But I can address a further point about the inconsistency, AND give a second source. Maybe there are no others, so perhaps I shouldn't have said "all" - but there's probably some information in PoME for the year of the wedding.

In Appendix B, entry for 1940:
"Gondor and Arnor renew communications and form an alliance. Arvedui weds Firiel daughter of Ondoher of Gondor."

If Arvedui had indeed visited Gondor in 1937 or 1938 as you suggest, it would CERTAINLY have been an earlier "renewal of communications" than 1940 - wouldn't it? :wink:

I tend to think the "1938" date for the birth of Aranarth was just from a draft on a slip of paper - or that otherwise JRRT overlooked the inconsistency. And as for being a "published date" - along with other information from the HoME series, I think it should be taken with some amount of reservation - due to the nature of the material.

Perhaps the only other real possibility is that Aranarth was a son of Arvedui, but not of Firiel - which I also find hard to believe - especially since that would have severely undermined any attempt Arvedui might make on Gondor's crown (to the extent I doubt he'd bother).

Besides - the Elves always "saved themselves for marriage" - and stayed totally faithful to those they did marry. I think the Dunedain emulated this - at least those who clung to the branch known as "Faithful".

I've seen the observation... that in all his accounts of stories from Middle Earth, Tolkien doesn't give a single episode of marital unfaithfulness. Offhand, I can't even think of any premarital activities. Even a second marriage was almost unheard of...

:)



:)
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Postby RavenTinuviel » Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:09 pm

Valandil3430 wrote:In Appendix B, entry for 1940:
"Gondor and Arnor renew communications and form an alliance. Arvedui weds Firiel daughter of Ondoher of Gondor."

;) I do not have a problem on how you read it Valandil since anything is possible in fanfic, but I have to ask: Do you assume that Prince Arvedui just up and made the trek to Gondor and married, or Firiel trekked to Fornost and married without any communication?? How do you see it happening?

Valandil3430 wrote:If Arvedui had indeed visited Gondor in 1937 or 1938 as you suggest, it would CERTAINLY have been an earlier "renewal of communications" than 1940 - wouldn't it? :wink:

I tend to think the "1938" date for the birth of Aranarth was just from a draft on a slip of paper - or that otherwise JRRT overlooked the inconsistency. And as for being a "published date" - along with other information from the HoME series, I think it should be taken with some amount of reservation - due to the nature of the material.

:shock: Take what was actually written by Tolkien as reservation??? ;)

Valandil3430 wrote:Perhaps the only other real possibility is that Aranarth was a son of Arvedui, but not of Firiel

This makes for another good fanfic possibility! :)

Valandil3430 wrote:Besides - the Elves always "saved themselves for marriage" - and stayed totally faithful to those they did marry. I think the Dunedain emulated this

Yeah, but then there is the whole 'fall of man' aspect that can come into play, especially in fanfic. ;)

Since we are talking fanfic here, so one can make up a 1942 date or make up an unofficial stealth visit by Arvedui. I got little started on a story of my own of this and I will post it when its done.

Again, thanks for sharing your work!
:)
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Postby Valandil3430 » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:44 am

RavenTinuviel wrote::
:
... How do you see it happening?
:
:


You read my "Letters of Firiel"... right? :wink:
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Postby RavenTinuviel » Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:57 pm

Yes I have, but letters to mother does not tell how Firiel was promised in marriage or how "renewed communications" was first initiated between the north and south. I will quit asking. Again, thank you for sharing your fanfics.
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Postby Valandil3430 » Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:33 am

RavenTinuviel wrote:Yes I have, but letters to mother does not tell how Firiel was promised in marriage or how "renewed communications" was first initiated between the north and south. I will quit asking. Again, thank you for sharing your fanfics.


See Letter #3 again... palantiri. :)
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Postby RavenTinuviel » Sat Jan 06, 2007 1:59 am

Like I said.... I read it, and since that is all you have to say on the subject, I retract my questions. :P
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Postby Valandil3430 » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:33 am

:?

I thought the use of the palantiri answered the "how" questions very well. Doesn't it...???
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Postby Arassuil » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:58 pm

Interesting reading you have here Valandil3430 even if its somewhat wooden in places.

On the part on Arassuil (I tried to quote that part but the site told me I used a forbidden word, which was contained in the part I quoted that was already posted. Go figure), I like the idea of time in Gondor. And yes, the Long Winter was merely a time of deeper freeze that lasted longer in the north, which we we're able to cope with. But the freeze further south caused much hardship to those not so used to it.
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Postby Valandil3430 » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:53 pm

Hi Arassuil - and Thank you! :)

I suppose this is "wooden" in places because it was really just intended as an outline. I literally started with the list of names, added the dates, added the information Tolkien gave us on each one... then added my own story germs. It's a "working document" that still has a long way to go. That is to say - each entry could become its own story! :)

And - I see I need to clarify my entry under "Arassuil"... When I say that the people of Eriador were "less troubled" during the Long Winter than those in Gondor or Rohan, I meant "less troubled by Orcs/Wars/(or whatever of that nature)". I imagine it got pretty cold up there in the north though - worse than usual. Brrrrr! :wink:
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Postby Arassuil » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:38 pm

I have one of these chronos myself. I copied the Encyclopedia of Arda, and added my own notes.

Actually, Arassuil's reign as Chieftain was quite filled with troubles. The worst was passed though by the time of the Long Winter. By that time there were some small skirmishes as opposed to the full out invasion that was occuring in Gondor, and especially Rohan during that time. But ten or so years earlier we were hard pressed. Even the hobbits got into a bit of a scrape with the orcs then.
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Postby Arassuil » Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:46 am

Had to find this as a point of reference in a story I'm collaboratively writing. Good work Valandil!
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Re: Excerpts from my "Annals of the Northern Kings"

Postby Arassuil » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:03 pm

I have found this as a fairly thorough summary of the Line of Elendil!
What source material did you use? I'm guessing HoME #12 in part?
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Re: Excerpts from my "Annals of the Northern Kings"

Postby Valandil3430 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:05 pm

Arassuil wrote:I have found this as a fairly thorough summary of the Line of Elendil!
What source material did you use? I'm guessing HoME #12 in part?


I started with that, and expanded on it - so it's definitely a work of fan-fiction. But I tried my best not to contradict anything. I believe I pulled from any other pertinent sources: LOTR text, Appendices, UT, Silmarillion, etc. I worked into it a number of "story germs" which I want to someday turn into full-fledged stories.
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Re:

Postby Deumeawyn » Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:30 pm

Valandil3430 wrote:Rhudaur (as you might observe, I has just re-read "Macbeth" when I devised this):

- - - - - - -

Kings of Rhudaur at Brochenridge:

The first King of Rhudaur was Earendur’s third son, Daurnemir, who was 13 years younger than Amlaith. He was not as impressive as his older brothers, for he was withdrawn and sullen and not so mighty of frame as Caryontar nor as tall as Amlaith. But he was allowed to go off to war with Gondor, and won a measure of renown himself. While his two elder brothers were weighed for the succession, an emissary of Gondor suggested to him that he might make a place for himself by marrying the Lady Dorien (b. 771), daughter of Mithiethel’s prince, whom his brother had forsaken. She was then older than most brides, but Daurnemir saw the advantage in this and approached her father, who consented, delighted that his daughter was at last to be married - and to a son of King Earendur, though she despised Daurnemir and still yearned for his brother, Caryontar, and yet she also despised and scorned Caryontar even more. Thus, when Cardolan broke off from Arnor, Daurnemir and the Prince of Hoarwell created the realm of Rhudaur.

The Prince of Mithiethel had long been established at a fortress-estate a few leagues east and north of the great bridge over Hoarwell. Daurnemir chose a site further still to the north and east, at a break in a great ridge, where he built a great fortress and a palace for himself and his heirs.
Rhudaur was ever the weakest of the three kingdoms, but they fought fiercely to attempt to win control of Amon Sul. Always seeking to maintain ties to Gondor and to the southern realms, the one son of Daurnemir was married to a princess from Umbar, but at just that time, Gondor and Umbar became enemies once more, and Rhudaur’s new connection to Umbar placed it out of favor with Gondor. Although geographically close to Rivendell, Rhudaur was not close to them politically because of her initial ties with the southern kingdoms and the continued influence this had even in later times. As time wore on, the Dunedain of Rhudaur even began to dabble in the black arts.

Before long, treachery became the way of the land, and kings came to the throne by assassinating other kings. The last king from Isildur’s line had his daughter taken from him by force, by a hill chieftain, who later slew that king and named himself the King of Rhudaur. Soon after this, all fell into ruin and what Dunedain remained were slain or fled west to Arthedain, while the remnants of Rhudaur came directly under the influence of Angmar.

XI (R) Daurnemir
Born 739, Crowned 861 (122), Reigned 93 years, Died 954 (215)
Named Turendur at birth, he was the third son of King Earendur of Arnor, and went also to Gondor’s campaigns in the south with his brother Caryontar, while their eldest brother Amandur (later Amlaith) stayed in Arnor at their father’s command. Turendur acquired a taste for the things of the south and delighted in the campaigns of those days. He was as tall as Caryontar, but slighter of frame and of quieter temperament, and more clever and subtle of mind. Although he was a great champion and fighter among other men, he could not rival his brothers in this regard - yet he had more knowledge of lore than Caryontar and was a better tactician. He was given the name ‘Daurnemir’ by his companions in the south, but used the name ‘Turendur’ upon his return to Arnor, until his brother Amandur would succeed to the throne.
Turendur had returned to the north at the same time as Caryontar, leading a southern army overland to Tharbad where they met Caryontar’s ships, in a final blow to those Dunlendings who resisted them. Like Caryontar, he did not stay at Annuminas, but neither did he dwell in any place, but wandered over the bounds of the kingdom. As his father the King began to fade and some whispered that Caryontar might follow him rather than Amandur, Turendur was at first delighted, but began to make his own plans when Amandur regained control and it appeared that Caryontar might carry off the southern provinces of Arnor. For it was suggested to him that he wed Dorien, whom Caryontar had forsaken, the daughter of Mithiethel’s Prince. This he did, and thus he wrested Rhudaur from the eastern portion of Arnor and had himself crowned as King Daurnemir.

XII Ruhendir
Born 863, Crowned 954 (91), Reigned 122 years, Died 1074 (211)
He was the son and only child of Daurnemir and the Princess of Mithiethel. He married younger than most nobles of the Dunedain, for his mother remembered the bitterness of her own spurning and she also despised the ways of Tarennor, son of Caryontar. He married a princess from Umbar, as had his uncle, and she bore him one son and one daughter. She brought with her diviners from her own lands, and some men of Rhudaur began to study the black arts. His reign was long, for his father had been older than most men upon his marriage. It was in his time that Rhudaur went openly to war with Cardolan to contest for Amon Sul and the sole use of the Palantir therein (957).
His son Hyarandil followed after him. His daughter Mahrwen (b. 921) espied in her youth Menelmir, her second cousin and heir of Cardolan. She would have none but him, and when she could not have him, she remained unmarried for all of her days, though she retained her beauty, and she turned to the black arts of her mother’s people, working intrigues in the Court of Rhudaur, taking the name Morgwen. And thus for the first time a descendant of Elendil turned to the worship of his ancient enemy Sauron. It was rumored that her life was un-naturally lengthened and even that she outlived the Kingdom of Rhudaur.

XIII Hyarandil
Born 911, Crowned 1074 (163), Reigned 28 years, Died 1102 (191)
Hyarandil came to the throne late in life, and had already made a lifestyle of ease and merriment. In his youth (TA 973) he carried off the daughter of Tharbad’s Thane and took her to wife, for Tharbad had from the first been affixed to the Prince of Mithiethel, but joined itself with Cardolan upon the division of Arnor. Nonetheless, he loved this girl and she returned his love and took her place at his side, bearing him three sons; Tarnendil, Histendil and Elencar. Hyarandil never took well to the throne, and neglected the proper ordering of the realm.

XIV Tarnendil
Born 977, Crowned 1102 (125), Reigned 25 years, Slain 1127 (150)
Tarnendil was of more sober mind and steady judgment than his father. He sought to ease tensions with Cardolan and to discourage the practice of magic. This brought on him the ire of his Aunt Morgwen, whom he had locked in a remote mountain tower, but from there she continued to work her intrigues. He was slain in his sleep by his own brother Histendil, who then usurped the throne.

XV Histendil
Born 999, Usurped Crown 1127 (128), Reigned 42 years, Slain 1169 (169)
Histendil was the second son of Hyarandil. In 1127 he rose up and slew his elder brother and took the throne for himself. He killed his younger brother Elencar and the two sons of Tarnendil as well, seeking to end their lines. In his day, Fallohides and Stoors first came over the Misty Mountains and into his lands. These were tolerated and allowed to farm the land, at which they proved adept. Otherwise they were occasionally used for the sport and amusement of the Men of Rhudaur. Histendil renewed the strife for control of Amon Sul.

XVI Isilcar
Born 1086, Usurped Crown 1169 (83), Reigned 33 years, Slain 1202 (116)
Nephew to Histendil by the third son of Hyarandil (Elencar), he escaped from Histendil when he came to power and was kept in hiding by a thane who hated the treachery now in Rhudaur’s court. Later, he came secretly among the servants of the palace and poisoned King Histendil and his close followers. He then took power, for his own men were secretly close at hand and he had turned the servants and the guard of the palace to himself, for they all rued the kingship of Histendil. Isilcar sought to return peace to Rhudaur, but there was only trouble throughout the land.

XVII Tarondacil
Born 1076, Usurped Crown 1202 (126), Reigned 52 years, Slain 1254 (178)
Tarondacil ‘the Treacherous’, the son of Histendil, he gathered men from the hill tribes of the Misty Mountains to support him and he made war on Isilcar. Finally he slew him and took the crown for himself, as though it had rightfully been his father’s. He kept the hill chieftains close to himself and took them into the service of Rhudaur, to strengthen his hand in the wars with Cardolan. He thus wrested control of Amon Sul from them once more, but within 3 years, Celebrindor of Arthedain had gathered his own forces and dislodged them. Neither Rhudaur nor Cardolan could contest with Arthedain alone, and indeed, in their years of warfare they had been mostly well-matched, sometimes Rhudaur winning the field, and other times Cardolan – and thus they had shared the Palantir. Therefore, Tarondacil called a council with Cardolan under the pretext of joining together in opposition to Arthedain, and Menelcar came with many men, for he did not trust Tarondacil. There, Tarondacil put on a great display, with pomp and ceremony. A servant was provided for each guest from Menelcar’s delegation, but on a signal, each drew a weapon and struck his guest, for the servants were in fact warriors of Rhudaur. None of Menelcar’s delegation survived, all were struck down.
Later, Tarondacil betrayed even his hill folk friends, such that his name came to be despised by all. The hill men could not overcome his fortress, but when his cousin came to claim the throne, he was vanquished.

XVIII Tarnendur
Born 1190, Crowned 1254 (64), Reigned 94 years, Slain 1348 (158)
Tarnendur’s grandfather Tarumar was the second son of Tarnendil, who was slain along with his brother by Histendil. However, Tarumar’s young son Tarenion, who was only 5 at the time, was hidden by a family servant and eventually taken to live in exile, first among sympathizers in the wild, then at Gondor, then Fornost, then finally at Tyrn Gorthad. At Fornost, King Celepharn had beseeched Tarenion to join in with him and retake Rhudaur under the banner of Arthedain, that they might be united once more. But Tarenion soon tired of this and dwelt at Tyrn Gorthad, where each king in succession fostered his hopes of a triumphant return to Rhudaur, for each saw this as a means to weaken their enemy.
Finally, in 1254, Tarenion moved against Tarondacil. His forces prevailed, but he himself was slain by Tarondacil, whom he had mortally wounded. Therefore, Tarenion’s son Tarnendur succeeded as King of Rhudaur.
Tarnendur had a tumultuous reign because of the state of the kingdom and its people. The hill men had infiltrated and lived among them, and they were always discontented. He had little force to carry out his plans, and his people sank deeper into debauchery, divination or despair. He yearned for the days of greatness, and goodness, of friendship with the Eldar and the pursuit of knowledge and peace, but his kingdom held none of these. Also in his reign, Orcs began to make raids into Eriador, but curiously always bypassing Rhudaur. For this at least Tarnendur was thankful.
Finally, a great leader arose among the hill chieftains. He was given position in the kingdom, in hopes that it would quell his people’s unrest. Instead, he seized and took to wife for himself the youngest daughter of Tarnendur, who was then only a girl of 15 (by which time most maidens of the hill folk had married). He then systematically saw to it that the sons of Tarnendur, and any other of his family who might lay claim to the throne, were eliminated, but always by subtle means – one being struck down while at war, another accidentally slain when his horse fell into a gorge and yet another would fall sick and not recover. Finally, he rose against King Tarnendur and struck him down – and he claimed the throne for himself by right of his marriage to his daughter.

After Tarnendur was slain, Rhudaur sank into greater turmoil and trouble. However, upon his death, young Beleg of Arthedain, who was son of the Heir to King Malvegil and who would be crowned as ‘Arveleg’, gathered the sons of the Princes of Fornost and of Tyrn Gorthad and the three of them rode into Rhudaur, late in the year 1348, to discover what they might. They stole into the royal fortress and rescued young Tarniel, wife of the hill king, and her companion the young princess of the House of Hoarwell, also last of her line. While escaping, Tarniel halted at the Great Bridge over Hoarwell and cast herself in, for she had despaired because of the child she carried within her. But the other four safely returned to Amon Sul just after the Yule in early 1349 – and Beleg learned that his grandfather had died, that his father was now King Argeleb, and that he himself was Heir to Arthedain. In later years, he married the young princess of Hoarwell whom he had rescued.
In Rhudaur, all was anarchy. The Halflings scattered either west into Cardolan or east back across the Misty Mountains. Finally it was learned openly that the hill leaders had been receiving secret support from Angmar to the north, for in 1409 a great force came from Angmar, joined with the hill men, and went off to war against Arthedain. All the Dunedain who remained in Rhudaur then fled or perished, for none were spared if they were found, though some few escaped into Arthedain.

How cool is this! I have written out a history for a character I created named Cailiawen who is at least in part Rhuadurian Dunedain! This is fantastic reading! Well done!
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