Fanfic help?

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Fanfic help?

Postby ~*Enaira_of_Imladris*~ » Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:20 pm

Hey.
*Sorry to the people who are ACTUALLY reading my fanfic, but I am stuck.*
This is my first time trying to write fanfics, let alone the ending to a series someone else started.

I'm want to write a new series with the same characters, once I've finished this current series. And I want the main character (Arvariane Estel) and Aragorn Estel to be related in some way. But I can't seem to find a way to connect them without messing up Aragorn's race and lineage, because Arvariane is an Elf. And her mother died at childbirth. So I dont see how I can relate the two without tinkering with Tolkien's ideas (which I wanted to mostly stick to) and without screwing up my own story. :pull:

Any suggestions? :? They would be helpful. Thanks!!
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Postby WithyWyrm » Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:58 am

Er... This Aragorn Estel is the future King of Gondor we all know and love, correct? Who is this Arvariane exactly? Is it important how they're related? It's hard to make any suggestions without knowing a little more about the plot.

She could be kin to Elrond (and therefore related very distantly to Aragorn as well as closely 'adoptively' and matrimonially speaking) either by marriage (to his sons) or by blood. Hmm...does Elrond have any extra elven relatives? I can't remember. What about his wife's family?

That wasn't much help, but I'm afraid I haven't read your stories. Best of luck!

~WW
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Postby ~*Enaira_of_Imladris*~ » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:33 pm

Ok. Sorry I was very vague.
This Arvariane person was written as Glorfindel's daughter by the first author. And she wanted for Aragorn and Arvariane to be related somehow.
It's not extremely important, but since I was finishing somebody else's series I thought that I should keep some of the ideas she intended for the story.
So there's no connection here is there?? Oh well. I thank you for your help. :)
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Postby MithLuin » Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:24 pm

Glorfindel was a lord of Gondolin, and thus almost certainly Noldor (though he could have been Sindar or part-Sindar). He died defending Tuor and his son Earendil (as well as the other refugees from Gondolin) and when he returned to Middle Earth, he sought out Elrond (son of Earendil). So, you could say that Glorfindel considers himself to be an 'honorary' family member of Elrond's. Aragorn is Elrond's foster son. So, the connection could be that neither of them are blood relations, but they both have strong familial connections to Elrond.

I'm afraid that Elrond's elvish ancestors do not allow for any (canonical) distant cousins for him. He is the son of Earendil and Elwing. Earendil is an only child (whose elvish mother was also an only child), and Elwing's twin brothers were lost in the woods as children. If you wanted one of these to have been 'rescued' and then have a daughter who became the mother of your elf, that could work. Just to clarify what the (fanfic) relationship would be...

Elrond's uncle (Elured, perhaps) was thought to be lost (and presumed dead). But, he is found by kindly wood elves and raised in Ossiriand. He marries, and has a daughter. This daughter (your character's mother) would then be first-cousin to Elrond. Sometime during the Second Age, she ends up in Arnor, hanging out with Gil-galad at Lindon, maybe. When Glorfindel eventually returns from over the Sea, they meet, fall in love, and marry. She gives birth to Arvariane, who is first cousin, once-removed, from Elrond.

Elrond's twin brother is Elros, first King of Numenor and distant ancestor of Aragorn. When Aragorn and Arwen meet, she tell him "we are kin from afar" so that relationship is acknowledged (even though ~ 40 generations have passed on the mortal side!) So, if Aragorn and Arwen are "kin from afar," Aragorn and Arvariane would also be.

Will that be suitable? I'm afraid it would be impossible to make him any more closely related to an elf.
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Postby ~*Enaira_of_Imladris*~ » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:28 pm

MithLuin:
WOW. That's a lot of relations. And twins. And people getting lost.
I never knew all those connections up until now. They are very helpful, and I was wondering, if you wouldn't mind, if you could get me a web-link or something of your references. And I think what you've told me will be very useful if I decide to continue with the story. Thank you!! :hug:
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Postby MithLuin » Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:50 am

HERE is a family tree featuring Aragorn, Elrond, and the 'lost' twins. And you are right, there are a lot of twins in that family! The summary at the top is about all we know, though it is only fair to say that there are several versions of the story - changing the names of Elwing's brothers, their fates, and also who was responsible for leaving them in the woods.

For a complete list of the possibilities, read this thread - there is a wonderful post by scirocco listing the various versions of the story (including the one that was included in the published Silmarillion). I for one would be very happy if these poor twins were rescued, rather than left in the woods to starve!

There is also the possibility that they could be related via Elrond's wife, Celebrian. She has a murky geneology, because Tolkien kept changing his mind about how Galadriel and Celeborn's history went. But under one conception, Nimloth (Elrond's grandmother) and Celeborn (his father-in-law) would be first cousins. So, if you say Nimloth had a younger sister, or something, you could always make that work. If you are interested in that connection, look up Elmo (I kid you not, Tolkien named an elf Elmo!)
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Postby ~*Enaira_of_Imladris*~ » Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:03 pm

So from what I see from the research that scirocco did, nobody ever knows what happens to those twins for certain. Sometimes I wonder why Tolkien does not tells us, but I guess its meant to be left to our imaginations. Which also means there is slack if I want to create a story out of it. YAY!

Seeing as how you know so much about these relations, I was wondering if I could ask you another question. Did any story in Tolkien's works ever say that Elrohir loved somebody/was married/had a child? Or is that left to our imagination too? I looked in the website you gave me, but it didn't specify so.
Thank you for all the help you've given me.
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Postby MithLuin » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:52 pm

Elladan and Elrohir's fates are not mentioned, which means we don't know anything about whom they married. All we know is that they did not take ship with their father, but remained in Rivendell with Celeborn (at least for a time). Presumably, if they did marry, they married elves, and eventually sailed to Valinor, but there is no guarantee of that.

The fate of Elwing's twin brothers is very much open for exploration. I was thinking, though, that if you had your character related to them, it should at least be a couple of generations removed. Because, well, if the daughter of one of those twins was married to Glorfindel, surely people would know what happened to them! But if he's married to a grand-daughter or great-granddaughter, there's more room for the story to get lost.
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Postby ~*Enaira_of_Imladris*~ » Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:20 pm

So Elladan's and Elrohir's history is not talked about much either I presume, if their fates were not mentioned also. What you are saying is that it's possible for them to have married somebody, which, I think, is great ... I'm kind of glad that Tolkien (unintentionally) gave us so much wiggle room.

I see what you are saying about the whole generations-removed idea. Makes a lot of sense. I don't mind *losing* some history. :D
Thank you!!!
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