Alliance of Númenor - La dee da...

The varied peoples of Middle-earth at times found unity in their pursuits, and all too often experienced deep rifts. Engage in lively conversations as we banter about the differences between the Alliances, and recruit for our People as well. Remember, keep it friendly.

Postby PrincessofNumenor » Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:15 am

Sil... Am I Elbereth? I'm thinking I might be, but.. you know, I never really have a clue. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR> Ancalime, AWWW! I know how you feel, though. I used to be posting left and right, but now, I mostly just come in here, along with a select few others. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Numenor's always gonna be one of my favorite places! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR> Yes.. I pity Elros. When I see him, he's gonna get the makeover of his life. Think we should dye his hair blonde and put in extensions, to make him resemble Legolas? He could HAVE enough women then.. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-devil.gif"border=0>
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Postby LadyAshley » Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:25 am

*peks in* Hullo? May I join here? I'm of Numenorean decent in the land of Gondor, which is the Heir of Numenor. The Gondorian Alliance kind of died, I think.
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Postby tar_ancalime » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:34 pm

Welcome Lady Ashley <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>. You seem familiar... probably toms and maybe reading room...<BR><BR>Alassë... where do you lurk that you sw that? Hmm... probably council of teens... anyway, thanks for the sympathies <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> It seems like life is catching up and torc is sailing farther and farther away... but I will NOT give in! I like it too much here <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
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Postby the_elf_friend » Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:57 pm

NO! Don't give into the seduction of real life! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0> *chains Cali to TORC* Well, at any rate it's nice talking to you on Buddies and MSN. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Welcome Lady Ash! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> *gasp* It's a Sue Tolkien lover. How horrifying! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0> PJ rules. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Cali, you just said that you're fading away from TORC right here, didn't you? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>
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Postby LadyAshley » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:39 pm

Thanks, and yes, I tend to stick around Tom's a lot of the time, and indeed, I used to post in the "teh movie" thread in Books. <BR><BR>So what si there to do around here? lol Oh, here's my "A Lament for Numenor".<BR><BR><BR><strong>A Lament for Numenor</strong> <BR><BR>Numenor! Numenor! Of thee I sing!<BR>Of the ancient isle now beneath the Sea,<BR>Gone forever from youthful spring;<BR>Now we can only sing of thee.<BR><BR>Lovely white walls and fragrant trees, <BR>Are gone because of haughtiness.<BR>And thy fair ships and calm seas:<BR>The pride of Westernesse! <BR><BR>Lost too is the White Tree, destroyed to feed fell fires!<BR>Curse thee, Sauron, for bringing its death!<BR>O! burned is white Nimloth who the Silver Tree was its sire!<BR>Praise thee, Isildur, for rescuing it from the Akallabeth!<BR><BR>Sunken is the City of Kings---Armenelos!<BR>Drowned Pillar of Heaven--- holy Meneltarma!<BR>Gone is the great Isle of Elros:<BR>Forever beneath the waves of Arda.<BR><BR>If only thou had not lusted<BR>For immortal days!<BR>If only how had not in Sauron trusted<BR>And had not given the Dark One praise.<BR><BR>Mar-nu-Falmar! Land Under the Waves!<BR>No waves can break on thy mighty shore,<BR>No more can Middle-Earth be thy proud kings’ slave.<BR>No more art thou, Land of Gift, O! Andor! <BR><BR>So lost to the sea is fair Numenore!<BR>Great Elenna! Thy pride brought death!<BR>Tragedy has wrought thee the name Atalante:<BR>The Downfallen---Akallabeth!<BR><BR>
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Postby tar_ancalime » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:59 pm

Heh would you look at that, so I did. I said less social... and well it was up there a bit... and I forget that I posted it. <BR><BR>I won't comment on the poem because I'll just make an idiot of myself, and I'm really tired so I'll just settle with saying weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee hi.<BR><BR>*tries to run away, gets some distance away and then starts running on one spot and then catapults back to torc due to the elasticness of Sil's chain.*<BR><BR>
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Postby PrincessofNumenor » Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:27 pm

Ashley, welcome to the Alliance! Nice poem. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR> Mainly, what we do here is occasionally post a Numenor-based piece of writing or information we've discovered, and weird off. Well, I say we weird off.. Mostly, we're just 'being in touch with our loony side'. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR> Hehehe! I'll add your name. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR> Edited for:<BR><BR> SIL! CALI!! Pip!! I've voted for the awards (I'm going to try to get nominated for something next time.. I didn't 'tune in' to the whole award thing until it was too late. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>), and on all your nominations, I voted for you! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> *cheese* But you deserve it, really. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR> Luv you guys... *blushes in a moment of extreme embarrassment at her cheesiness*
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Postby LadyAshley » Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:01 pm

lol<BR><BR>I love Numenor...I fell in love with it when I read "Aldarion and Erendis" and "A Description of Numenor" in <em>Unfinished Tales</em>. It was such a lovely place---and ended in terribly tragedy! Alas! I fear most great things are doomed to do so. Look at Rome and Greece, and Egypt, and Byzantium. *shakes head* And then there's of course King Arthur, going into legend. That's why I wrote my Lament for Numenor.
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Postby PrincessofNumenor » Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:15 pm

Ashley, I love the story of Aldarion and Erendis too! In fact, I think it's really my favorite, though it is the most enraging.. I mean, Erendis was so pigheaded about Aldarion! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif"border=0> If she'd've been nicer, who knows how Numenor would've turned out. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby Elessar15 » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:14 pm

And who knows how Numenor would have turned out if we replaced Erendis with Alassë... <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-devil.gif"border=0>
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Postby the_elf_friend » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:41 pm

I feel sorry for Numenor... Alassë as queen? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0> Interesting. Scary. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I liked that story too.. but Erendis is a git. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0> I didn't like Ancalimë much either, sorry Cali. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0> I liked Meneldur best. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby LadyAshley » Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:31 pm

Really, it seems that it's Aldarion's fault, paying attension to the Sea and not his wife and(eventually) daughter. Men! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-rolleyes.gif"border=0> <BR><BR>I just wonder...why did the Professor make all the 3 Ruling Queens kind of dumb? Ancalime didn't want anything to do with men (she had to though), Telperien didn't get married at all, and gave the Septre to her nephew, and Vanimelde liked parties better than ruling.<BR><BR>Why were the Queens of Numenor so hard-headed or silly? Was it because they were of the race of Men, the most stubborn and pig-headedest of races?
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Postby PrincessofNumenor » Fri Mar 26, 2004 6:19 am

I still think, even giving due blame to Aldarion for leaving his wife all the time, that Erendis could've been way more understanding. When he came back, she was so mean, and she didn't even take the time to find out what he'd been working on (pushing Sauron back) before she gave 'im the cold shoulder.<BR><BR> I feel sorry for him. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif"border=0> Maybe it's 'cause he's my brother, I dunno. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR> Hey, Sil, Cali, and Elros!! Sorry I haven't been in much.. RL is rather hectic, but I go on Spring Break next week! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> *yay!!*<BR><BR>--Alassë<BR><BR> EDITED FOR: Elros, if we replaced Erendis with me... Well, it could've turned out several ways.<BR><BR> First: I wouldn't have waited around, getting old, while Aldarion dallied in the shipyards. I'd have marched my little you know what down there, sat him down, and given him an ultimatum.<BR><BR> "Marry me NOW, or hit the road, Jack!"<BR><BR> Doubtless, Aldarion would've been confused by my reference to him as 'Jack', and the relationship would've fizzled right there. Aldarion wouldn't have submitted to the ultimatum, and I'd have gone off carelessly to find a different man with more ambition in the female department,<BR><BR> Second: I MIGHT could've scraped enough patience together to wait until Aldarion's papa pressured him into marrying me, and then, whenever Aldarion decided to go over the countryside, planting trees, I'd probably have put myself on a noble steed and ridden with him.<BR> Then, when he decided to take that next voyage across the Sea, I'd have gone with him instead of whining like a dog about it and insisting that I was far too delicate to be taken away from land.<BR><BR> That way, imagining Aldarion to be a fairly handsome man, we might've had little Cali a wee bit sooner, and a few others along with her, thus rescuing Numenor from the tyranny of the lovely lass. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR> Or I'd have died on Middle Earth, a rather cold and devoid-of-glory ending for the next Queen of Numenor. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR> Third: But, if I was really feeling witchy the day of the voyage, I'd have stayed home, decorating our noble abode in neon colors and hanging posters of Lord of the Rings. I would've kept Cali and taken her to visit her grandparents every day, since we wouldn't go fleeing like sissies back to a sheep farm.. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR> Therefore, when Aldarion returned, he'd still have a welcome, he'd be shocked at the looks of his house, and I'd be so glad to see him come back that I'd run to him (old, creaky bones notwithstanding) and give him a great big hug.<BR><BR> The hug would resolve all our problems, and it'd be just like he'd never gone away...<BR><BR> Wow... That got WAAAY longer than I intended. Got to run, everybody! Bye!<BR><BR> --Alassë
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Postby the_elf_friend » Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:38 pm

Alassë! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> LOL, I laughed so hard at that... I like the third scenario best. Sheep farm! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>And "Marry me NOW, or hit the road Jack!" <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> I love that.<BR><BR>You voted for us? Thankies! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Sil for all the awards listed in my siggy! Pip for Village Idiot! Cali and Pip for Comedy Duo! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby PrincessofNumenor » Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:05 pm

<em>I just wonder...why did the Professor make all the 3 Ruling Queens kind of dumb? Ancalime didn't want anything to do with men (she had to though), Telperien didn't get married at all, and gave the Septre to her nephew, and Vanimelde liked parties better than ruling.<BR><BR>Why were the Queens of Numenor so hard-headed or silly? Was it because they were of the race of Men, the most stubborn and pig-headedest of races? </em><BR><BR> Ashley, I think the Queens were just prove that the Numenoreans were human... Either that, or JRR really liked obstinate women to be in control. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR> I think some of them were stubborn and wary because they knew they had to be. Take a look at Miriel (one of my favorites). She sort of had a reputation as a softie, sweetheart of a lass, and then her cousin Ar-Pharazon forces her into marriage and usurps the throne.<BR><BR> If he knew that Miriel was fierce and was suspicious of any sign of uprising at all, he wouldn't have done it. Fierce rulers often have strong supporters, either because they are feared, respected, or they've simply got what it takes, and Ar-P. wouldn't have felt like fooling with an army of angry Numenoreans. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR> Maybe Ancalime was that way.. Perhaps, though JRR didn't write about it, she had some suspicion of treasonous plots, so she ruled with a rod of iron.<BR><BR> Telperien might've known herself to be soft, so she kenw she wouldn't make a good ruler, so she gave the scepter to someone who would.<BR><BR> Vanimelde? Well, there's always going to be a ditz in every family. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR> Sil, glad you liked my 'What if Alassë had married Aldarion'. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> I had fun writing it. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby LadyAshley » Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:00 am

LOL Great scenarios! lol<BR><BR>Yes, no doubt they were to demostrat their human-ness. And true, Ancalima might have NEEDED to have an iron rule. <BR><BR>I love Numenor though...at least the landscape of it. It sounds just so...beautiful! And free from the Shadow until later years, when they decided to be jerks and want immortality. <BR><BR>But then again, who doesn't? Do we truly want to die and face the unknown hereafter? THat's why we have all these wonder-drugs, vaccinations etc. We want to prolong our mortal bodies as long as possible. <BR><BR>I think that was one of the things the Professor wanted to portray: Death, and the vain seeking of un-death. That search changed the fate of all Arda. <BR>
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Postby PrincessofNumenor » Sat Mar 27, 2004 9:24 am

Well, I'm in no big hurry to die.. I've got my plans and ambition, and it'd be a shame for me to keel over right now, but I'm not scared to die.<BR><BR> I think the Numenoreans were different. I know I'm going to heaven when I die because I've accepted Jesus, but unless I'm mistaken, only Elves had a known place they were going to if they were killed. I think Men and Dwarves were never told, only that it was their 'gift', to be able to die. I dunno... Maybe once their died, they didn't even have a soul left. <BR><BR> Wish I could ask JRR. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby tar_ancalime » Sat Mar 27, 2004 10:24 am

Hehe, I'm so glad I ended up with this username. Kind of funny when we're talking about Ancalimë <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Loved your little What If thing Alassë<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Speaking of death don't the men got to the Halls of Mandos<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif"border=0>?<BR><BR>And I found this poem a while ago through the poetry thread in the scriptorium:<BR><BR>The Aubade, by Philip Larkin<BR>I work all day, and get half drunk at night.<BR>Waking at four to soundless dark, I stare.<BR>In time the curtain edges will grow light.<BR>Till then I see what's really always there:<BR>Unresting death, a whole day nearer now,<BR>Making all thought impossible but how<BR>And where and when I shall myself die.<BR>Arid interrogation: yet the dread<BR>Of dying, and being dead,<BR>Flashes afresh to hold and horrify.<BR><BR>The mind blanks at the glare. Not in remorse<BR>- The good not used, the love not given, time<BR>Torn off unused - nor wretchedly because<BR>An only life can take so long to climb<BR>Clear of its wrong beginnings, and may never:<BR>But at the total emptiness forever,<BR>The sure extinction that we travel to<BR>And shall be lost in always. Not to be here,<BR>Not to be anywhere,<BR>And soon; nothing more terrible, nothing more true.<BR><BR>This is a special way of being afraid<BR>No trick dispels. Religion used to try,<BR>That vast moth-eaten musical brocade<BR>Created to pretend we never die,<BR>And specious stuff that says no rational being<BR>Can fear a thing it cannot feel, not seeing<BR>that this is what we fear - no sight, no sound,<BR>No touch or taste or smell, nothing to think with,<BR>Nothing to love or link with,<BR>The anaesthetic from which none come round.<BR><BR>And so it stays just on the edge of vision,<BR>A small unfocused blur, a standing chill<BR>That slows each impulse down to indecision<BR>Most things may never happen: this one will,<BR>And realisation of it rages out<BR>In furnace fear when we are caught without<BR>People or drink. Courage is no good:<BR>It means not scaring others. Being brave<BR>Lets no-one off the grave.<BR>Death is no different whined at than withstood.<BR><BR>Slowly light strengthens, and the room takes shape.<BR>It stands plain as a wardrobe, what we know,<BR>Have always known, know that we can't escape<BR>Yet can't accept. One side will have to go.<BR>Meanwhile telephones crouch, getting ready to ring<BR>In locked-up offices, and all the uncaring<BR>Intricate rented world begins to rouse.<BR>The sky is white as clay, with no sun.<BR>Work has to be done.<BR>Postmen like doctors go from house to house.<BR><BR>Really makes you think doesn't it?<BR><BR>But then again if you really think about it the root of all fear is death.
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Postby LadyAshley » Sat Mar 27, 2004 10:41 pm

The root of all fear is death...interesting concept! And it might just be true. Because why are you afraid of robbers? They might kill you. Why are people afraid of flying? The plane might crash and you die. Why are we afraid of thinking about tomorrow? Because it's a day closer to death (as that really neat poem said). (And it might just be true.)<BR><BR>May I use that quote "the root of all fear is death" for a siggy in another web forum? I like it!<BR><BR>And boy, it's turning suddenly to Philosophy unless we say that Numenoreans were afraid of the unknowning of the after-life. And yeah, I heard something about they might go the Halls of Mandos briefly before going on to...wherever.<BR>
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Postby tar_ancalime » Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:40 pm

Exactly! Why are people afraid of heights? Because they are afraid of falling to death, why are people afraid of small,closed in spaces? Because they're afraid of either a) suffocating to death in the small space or b) the place collapsing in on them.<BR>Sure! Go Ahead<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> We can gather more believers <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Anyone know how much philisophers earn? It'd be great getting paid to think<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0>.<BR><BR>Which brings us to the concept of paying people you to think for them, which can be quite interesting. It may involve brain swapping, or just shrinking down to invisible size and talking into a mircrophone in their pocket that leads to their ear telling them what to say. That way those who don't want to think don't have to and those who can't imagine a life without thinking get to help out the world.<BR><BR>Ahem... sorry<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Got sidetracked<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Of course there are about a dozen or more moral issues with that, so I'll just leave it at that<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR>They say that the gift of men is death, so I think whatever awaits them has got to be better then what's going to happen to the elves, who would just fade until they are practically nothing, once not even the presence of the Valar is enough to keep their weariness at bay. Which would be where our ghosts come from<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Yes, weird connections today, sorry, been working on homework for most of the day, and that's not easy to do when you feel like a Balrog is sitting on your face causing you to cough and your nose to run from the constant stream of ash he is turning into.<BR><BR>Alas! I make perfect insane sense! <--- self explanatory<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby LadyAshley » Sun Mar 28, 2004 8:09 pm

Yes, I think that it's better after death (for some, IMHO). And who wants to stick around for ever and fade into a ghost? <BR><BR>However, most don't want to go, and after a while, the kings of Numenor didn't go until they simply couldn't last any longer. *shakes head* I think Death IS a gift.<BR>But then, who wants to meet your final judgement?<BR><BR><BR>
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Postby PrincessofNumenor » Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:59 pm

Well, like I say, I'm not necessarily chomping at the bit to go to the hereafter, but when it's my time, I think I'll be glad of it. I know what my judgement is going to be, so I'm not too scared. Besides, where I'm going once I die makes up for the whole dying issue. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR> I think death is a gift too, Ashley. Have you ever seen 'Tuck Everlasting'? That movie kind of made me sad, so I never bought it, but I rented it once.. I would advise watching it, if you haven't.<BR><BR> The story is about this family who drinks from the Fountain of Youth, though they don't know it at the time. After they drink, they are forever frozen just like they are, though they continue to live. They can't die, no matter what happens. One is shot, but it doesn't even hurt him. One is trampled by a horse, and it has no effect on him either. <BR><BR> They don't age, and finally, they figure out what has happened to them. They move back to guard the Fountain, to prevent other people from drinking out of it, since immortality begins to feel cursed to them. All their friends die, and they want to die, but they can't.<BR><BR> It's pretty sad, really. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif"border=0> After watching that, I realized that unless EVERYBODY lived forever (which would create some serious overpopulation problems <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> ) I wouldn't want to either. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR> I'm feeling really morbid now... Night all! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR> Alassë
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Postby LadyAshley » Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:25 pm

Yes, I've seen the movie---and read the book too. It seemed like a pretty close adaption. (For the most part.)<BR><BR>But the message is still the same: immortality starts to stink after a while when you have no one but yourselves. And the population would skyrocket! We're crowded already. <BR><BR>I can't commprehend 'for ever'. I don't think any mortal can. Everything around us stops: ceilings only go so high, cars can only run for a time on gas in the tank, books end, movies end, grass withers and on and on. I think if mortals were given a chance to live for hundreds of years, we wouldn't know what to do!<BR><BR>(btw, Alassë, why the chance of banner?)
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Postby PrincessofNumenor » Wed Mar 31, 2004 5:29 am

Change of banner? Oh, I just like to switch it around. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Angband matches my shields pretty well, and Numenor was clashing. When I rid myself of the nasty Rohan shield, I'll go back to it.. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR> My Alassë character recently married Elrohir (in the Mirkwood Elven Alliance), and my other character, the strict but nice Princess (we aren't saying where from... Can't marry two guys) is engaged to a Balrog, so I thought a little evilness would be good, too. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR> I betcha Elros, Cali, and Sil will kill me for this... But hey, guys, at least it isn't the Most Dread Default Girl! I <em>could</em> bring her back.... <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-devil.gif"border=0>
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Postby Aramel » Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:45 am

*g* Could I join the Alliance? I don't have to switch my icon to Numenor, do I?<BR><BR>Alassë(look, I can do accents now!), why not Gondor?<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR>To pitch in the discussion thingy:<BR><BR>JRRT probably was going to portray the afterlife of men like in Christianity, since he was a Christian. Which would mean that Men go to Eru beyond the circles of the world, and would mean that they certainly would have souls (after all, that's a fundamental idea in Christianity, though I really can't be too sure, since I'm an atheist. But still...) His idea about the whole "unwillingness to die" which led to Númenor's decline might have been directed at some of the people today (though Tolkien disliked allegory). Aragorn, when he gives up his life, stops himself from walking this road. This might also have some symbolism... though to most people it gives an idea of suicide. It was simply meant to indicate that Eru's gift to men was taken as a gift by Aragorn and as a curse by those kings of Númenor who clung to life.<BR><BR>Personally, I don't have any religion, being, as I said above, an atheist. But all the same (since I don't believe in an afterlife) I have a sort of feeling that I ought to do as much as possible in life, and enjoy myself, since I'll live only once. If I don't, I won't be around to regret it, but I'll still regret it.<BR><BR>Darn. Now I'm talking nonsense.<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-rolleyes.gif"border=0>
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Postby the_elf_friend » Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:43 pm

Welcome Aramel <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>As for the Numenoreans... I dislike the Halls of Mandos thing... even though I did write a fanfiction about it... I'm such a hypocrite. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0> But from the time I wrote it, I changed my mind, I think the Mandos thing is way overused in fanfiction and I think their souls are just recycled into new people and born again... *shrug*<BR><BR>Hmmm, me being an atheist, in this world, I think the cold hard truth is that your mind and body stop working, and your lifeless body is lowered into the ground, and you rot, end of story. I'm weird, yes. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I never thought of Aragorn giving up his life as suicide... I never thought of looking at it that way. Interesting.<BR><BR>ALASSË!! I thought you were staying with Numenor! At least it isn't Miss Default Girl, I forget her name now... <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif"border=0> Ithoriel? <BR><BR>
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Postby PrincessofNumenor » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:51 am

I don't really like the idea of the Numenoreans going to the Halls of Mandos, either. I've just always looked on the Halls as being strictly for Elves.<BR><BR> For a Man's afterlife (and I'm certain that there is one), I kind of like to think that only their bodies die, and *they* go to a spirit world, of sorts, though they can come back and walk the lands they once did, but only as a pale image of what they once were. Sort of ghost-like, if it makes sense. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR> And Ara, it's good to see you again! Of course you can join! Sorry it took me a while to get in here and tell you! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR> Edit: Ara and Sil.. I'm not trying to be critical of other people's beliefs, or anything of the kind, or start a deep, scary discussion, but if I can ask a few questions.. ? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR> I'm a Christian, and I believe that when I die, my soul will go to the Judgement, where Jesus Christ will claim me as one of his children, because I believe he died to save me from going to Hell. Thus, I believe the Bible and all it says, including the Ten Commandments, some of which are things like, "Don't kill," or "don't steal."<BR><BR> As atheists, do you guys believe that those things are wrong? If you killed someone, or stole something, wouldn't you feel remorse, or shame, or regret? If so, where do you think that feeling comes from? Since you don't believe God exists or his son, you can't possibly believe that the Bible is legitimate (how could a nonexistent person speak?), so therefore, you wouldn't give a rip if you disobeyed every single thing in it... Would you?<BR><BR> --Alassë <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby LadyAshley » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:03 pm

*bumb*<BR><BR>Where would y'all live in Númenor? I would live by Eldalondë, or in Andúnië.
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Postby PrincessofNumenor » Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:52 am

I d'know.. I'd probably want to live by the sea. If I did, then I would go sailing all the time, because I'd know (as long as I had some oiolossë and the Valar's good grace <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> ) I wouldn't sink.. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR><BR> Hey, guys! My Alassë character, the one I sign my name as all the time, got married in the MEA (Mirkwood Elven Alliance) to Elrohir, but my Princess character (Alassë is the Princess of Numenor... The Princess is someone else) is marrying balrogthane pretty soon in the Valaraukar lair..<BR><BR> I'd love it if you guys would come and "RP" with us as wedding guests. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Pretty please?? *puppy dog eyes*<BR><BR> And Sil! CALI! <strong>ELROS!</strong> I changed my banner back to Numenor, but none of you are here to be proud of me.. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-crying.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0>
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Postby tar_ancalime » Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:14 pm

Hmm... I'd probably live in Andunie because I always hear Sil talk about it<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Alassë!!!! YES!!! I am very proud, *sniff* I never thought this would happen, never! But it did! <BR><BR>*floats up and down on helicpter like tail* <BR><BR>Rp? Sure! Where? when?
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