The 2016 Elections

Manwë was known for many things, but wisdom and power are two that lead the rest of his attributes. Join the Councils and discuss the more weighty matters of Tolkien Fandom.

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby hamlet » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:19 am

Tomorrow is the big day.

All I can say to everybody who might still be reading Manwe is to (if you're allowed) go out and vote and vote for whom you believe will do the best job.

Good luck to us and God bless us all.
User avatar
hamlet
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 10537
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 12:01 pm
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby Billobob » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:11 pm

I'm gonna make a last minute prediction and say that I think that Hillary is gonna win. Not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing. Hopefully our alien overlords will save us before then :wink:.
User avatar
Billobob
Rider of the Mark

 
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:50 am
Location: Greenwood the Great.
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby hamlet » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:13 am

Well, that was a surprise. :(
User avatar
hamlet
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 10537
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 12:01 pm
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby Billobob » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:24 am

I was wrong. :lol:

Guess I under estimated how people's need for change can sometimes overcome rationality.

It was kind of funny the media seemed even more suprised then I was. It was only professionalism that kept them from crying, it was almost faintly hillarious.
User avatar
Billobob
Rider of the Mark

 
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:50 am
Location: Greenwood the Great.
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby heliona » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:17 am

I've got to say, from the viewpoint of a firsthand view of Brexit, I'm not surprised. *sigh*
Image<-- Sir Gwaine representing the letter "G" in the TVM!

Life is short; break the rules, forgive quickly; kiss slowly; love truly; laugh uncontrollably; and never regret anything that made you smile. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.

Grab a chance and you won't be sorry for the might-have-beens. - Arthur Ransome

Just because I have the vocabulary of a well-educated sailor doesn't mean I'm not a lady.

In Memoriam EDW - March 14th 2009
In Memoriam rowanberry - March 1st 2014 (~In Memoriam AHH - Alfred Lord Tennyson~)

Photos: My Flickr Photo Collections & Wee Nell - the furry ball of mischief!


(I occasionally post as White Shadow - you've been warned!)

New posters, there's a Welcome and Comprehensive Guide to the Messageboard to answer your questions.
User avatar
heliona
The Sexy One ~ Hellaciously Huggable

 
Posts: 10462
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 11:14 am
Location: Atop a sunny hill
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby hamlet » Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:29 am

heliona wrote:I've got to say, from the viewpoint of a firsthand view of Brexit, I'm not surprised. *sigh*


I said to my friend from across the pond before the vote that, at least, Britain had found a way to easily identify all the remarkably silly people in the country were. Afterward, I said that I was correct, but that we had both simply underestimated just how many of them there were.

The same can be said of the US now.

*sigh*

Well, nothing for it but to soldier on.
User avatar
hamlet
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 10537
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 12:01 pm
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby Billobob » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:02 pm

I think that the main force that drove Trump into the oval office was people's desire for change. The people that voted for Trump seem to think that the only person able to make America "great" (by this I mean a strong economy and a strong military) is Donald trump while Hillary may have seemed to represent the status quo which to these voters was probably eveything they didn't want. All of this is speculation, I don't claim to be a political expert.
Also the liberal (or whatever term is used I don't know) media might have inadvertantly helped Trump with some of their negative press, because:
1. it just gave more publicity to Trump.
2. Some people may have seen the negative press as proof that the "establishment" was agianst Trump and that he would be the best one to create positive change.
User avatar
Billobob
Rider of the Mark

 
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:50 am
Location: Greenwood the Great.
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby Aravar » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:16 pm

I see, people who want Parliament to make their laws rather than the European Commission are "remarkably silly."

It's that achingly condescending attitude that has led to both Brexit and today's result.
User avatar
Aravar
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 8:57 am
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby Billobob » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:41 pm

Wait a second isn't this thread about the U.S.A. elections? Because honestly the Brexit could easily fill up its own thread.
As for the other part of your comment I assume by today's result you mean Trump becoming president, and as for that topic I actually agree in my opinion the news station's contempt for Trump and their inability to take Trump's run seriously led to this result which is not necesserially a good nor bad thing.
User avatar
Billobob
Rider of the Mark

 
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:50 am
Location: Greenwood the Great.
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby hamlet » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:12 am

Aravar wrote:I see, people who want Parliament to make their laws rather than the European Commission are "remarkably silly."

It's that achingly condescending attitude that has led to both Brexit and today's result.


No, I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the breakaway itself. I'm not saying that the UK should not govern itself, but that breaking away from the EU is a bad thing. A silly thing. It's akin to, say, Alaska deciding to exit the United States.
User avatar
hamlet
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 10537
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 12:01 pm
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby Billobob » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:33 am

hamlet wrote:
Aravar wrote:I see, people who want Parliament to make their laws rather than the European Commission are "remarkably silly."

It's that achingly condescending attitude that has led to both Brexit and today's result.


No, I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the breakaway itself. I'm not saying that the UK should not govern itself, but that breaking away from the EU is a bad thing. A silly thing. It's akin to, say, Alaska deciding to exit the United States.


I'm not an expert on these matters but I'm pretty sure there is at least a relativley substantial differerence between a state that keaves the nation that created and formed it and a pre existing independent nation leaving what is essentially an alliance between nations. Though as for whether the Brexit was beneficial or not I'll leave that to the residents of the U.K.
User avatar
Billobob
Rider of the Mark

 
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:50 am
Location: Greenwood the Great.
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby Aravar » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:52 am

With respect hamlet, you said:

hamlet wrote:
I said to my friend from across the pond before the vote that, at least, Britain had found a way to easily identify all the remarkably silly people in the country were. Afterward, I said that I was correct, but that we had both simply underestimated just how many of them there were.



My bolding.

That is not identifying Brexit as silly, but the people who voted for it. The overwhelming majority of the people who I know that voted for Brexit are professionals with degrees, many of them postgraduate. They are not "silly".

The point is that many many people, myself included, did not want Britain to be to the EU what Alaska is to the US, never wanted further integration, and, unless they are over the age of 59 never got a direct vote on it. Even those who got a vote in 1975 were asked to vote to remain in a Common Market and not for a continent wide Federal State.
User avatar
Aravar
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 8:57 am
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby hamlet » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:49 am

Aravar wrote:With respect hamlet, you said:

hamlet wrote:
I said to my friend from across the pond before the vote that, at least, Britain had found a way to easily identify all the remarkably silly people in the country were. Afterward, I said that I was correct, but that we had both simply underestimated just how many of them there were.



My bolding.

That is not identifying Brexit as silly, but the people who voted for it. The overwhelming majority of the people who I know that voted for Brexit are professionals with degrees, many of them postgraduate. They are not "silly".

The point is that many many people, myself included, did not want Britain to be to the EU what Alaska is to the US, never wanted further integration, and, unless they are over the age of 59 never got a direct vote on it. Even those who got a vote in 1975 were asked to vote to remain in a Common Market and not for a continent wide Federal State.


Point taken, though I still find the Brexit itself to be a poor idea.
User avatar
hamlet
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 10537
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 12:01 pm
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby The Nameless Thing » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:27 am

hamlet wrote:
Aravar wrote:With respect hamlet, you said:

hamlet wrote:
I said to my friend from across the pond before the vote that, at least, Britain had found a way to easily identify all the remarkably silly people in the country were. Afterward, I said that I was correct, but that we had both simply underestimated just how many of them there were.



My bolding.

That is not identifying Brexit as silly, but the people who voted for it. The overwhelming majority of the people who I know that voted for Brexit are professionals with degrees, many of them postgraduate. They are not "silly".

The point is that many many people, myself included, did not want Britain to be to the EU what Alaska is to the US, never wanted further integration, and, unless they are over the age of 59 never got a direct vote on it. Even those who got a vote in 1975 were asked to vote to remain in a Common Market and not for a continent wide Federal State.


Point taken, though I still find the Brexit itself to be a poor idea.


Many Trump supporters were pissed that the media characterized them as uneducated and silly. They are at an age (older) when confrontation with people who thought them xenophobic, homophobic, and racist was not a conversation they would have. They were vilified everyday in the MSM, so they just stayed quiet and voted.

I am not racist, nor any phobe. I am college educated. This election for me was about the supreme court and laws being enacted by judicial activists that attacked my beliefs.
User avatar
The Nameless Thing
Ranger of the North
 
Posts: 1304
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2000 1:00 am
Location: The Nameless Inn
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby Billobob » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:45 am

The Nameless Thing wrote:Many Trump supporters were pissed that the media characterized them as uneducated and silly. They are at an age (older) when confrontation with people who thought them xenophobic, homophobic, and racist was not a conversation they would have. They were vilified everyday in the MSM, so they just stayed quiet and voted.

I am not racist, nor any phobe. I am college educated. This election for me was about the supreme court and laws being enacted by judicial activists that attacked my beliefs.


So in other words (correct me if I'm wrong) you voted for Trump in the hopes that he will point the supreme court away from attacking your (supposedly conservative) beliefs.

On a different note I've noticed that the media (for the most part) has continued to attack (maybe a little too strong of word choice) Trump even when he consents to their viewpoint such as when he decided to leave two parts of Obama care unchanged he was derided for supposedly backtracking. I am not a Trump suporter far from it (honestly I feel he is far too inexperienced in politics and either is or can become a demegouge. But the media has become far too biased against Trump even though he probably isn't the most qualified individual, news channels (and etc.) should report, not give "professional" opinions.
User avatar
Billobob
Rider of the Mark

 
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:50 am
Location: Greenwood the Great.
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby The Nameless Thing » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:58 am

opps!
Last edited by The Nameless Thing on Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
The Nameless Thing
Ranger of the North
 
Posts: 1304
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2000 1:00 am
Location: The Nameless Inn
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby The Nameless Thing » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:59 am

Billobob wrote:
The Nameless Thing wrote:Many Trump supporters were pissed that the media characterized them as uneducated and silly. They are at an age (older) when confrontation with people who thought them xenophobic, homophobic, and racist was not a conversation they would have. They were vilified everyday in the MSM, so they just stayed quiet and voted.

I am not racist, nor any phobe. I am college educated. This election for me was about the supreme court and laws being enacted by judicial activists that attacked my beliefs.


So in other words (correct me if I'm wrong) you voted for Trump in the hopes that he will point the supreme court away from attacking your (supposedly conservative) beliefs.

On a different note I've noticed that the media (for the most part) has continued to attack (maybe a little too strong of word choice) Trump even when he consents to their viewpoint such as when he decided to leave two parts of Obama care unchanged he was derided for supposedly backtracking. I am not a Trump suporter far from it (honestly I feel he is far too inexperienced in politics and either is or can become a demegouge. But the media has become far too biased against Trump even though he probably isn't the most qualified individual, news channels (and etc.) should report, not give "professional" opinions.



Yes.
User avatar
The Nameless Thing
Ranger of the North
 
Posts: 1304
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2000 1:00 am
Location: The Nameless Inn
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby MerriadocBrandybuck » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:09 pm

User avatar
MerriadocBrandybuck
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 4206
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 9:09 am
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby Billobob » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:31 pm

MerriadocBrandybuck wrote:https://medium.com/@trentlapinski/dear-democrats-read-this-if-you-do-not-understand-why-trump-won-5a0cdb13c597#.tru2m9dkp

Dear Democrats, Read this if you do not understand why Trump Won.


The link is not working for me could you please give a general summary on it?
User avatar
Billobob
Rider of the Mark

 
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:50 am
Location: Greenwood the Great.
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby hamlet » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:34 am

The Nameless Thing wrote:Many Trump supporters were pissed that the media characterized them as uneducated and silly. They are at an age (older) when confrontation with people who thought them xenophobic, homophobic, and racist was not a conversation they would have. They were vilified everyday in the MSM, so they just stayed quiet and voted.

I am not racist, nor any phobe. I am college educated. This election for me was about the supreme court and laws being enacted by judicial activists that attacked my beliefs.


I agree with you entirely. No, really, I do!

It is inexcusable that for effectively 60 years, HUGE swathes of the population have been, at best, ignored, more often derided and insulted as they watch every little bit of their way of life dwindle away and die a slow death. And not to mention having the courts perceivedly attack their moral values.

Really, I do understand.

However, I still think that voting for Trump is a silly option. Yes, he paid a lot of really good lip service to those issues, but in reality, I don't think that he's going to do anything but burn down the system which isn't good for anybody. Clinton was certainly not a good candidate in any regard, but at the very least, she could be trusted to not lock the door and set the barn on fire pretending that it was an improvement.

That's just IMO, though.
User avatar
hamlet
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 10537
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 12:01 pm
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby Billobob » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:34 am

hamlet wrote:
The Nameless Thing wrote:Many Trump supporters were pissed that the media characterized them as uneducated and silly. They are at an age (older) when confrontation with people who thought them xenophobic, homophobic, and racist was not a conversation they would have. They were vilified everyday in the MSM, so they just stayed quiet and voted.

I am not racist, nor any phobe. I am college educated. This election for me was about the supreme court and laws being enacted by judicial activists that attacked my beliefs.


I agree with you entirely. No, really, I do!

It is inexcusable that for effectively 60 years, HUGE swathes of the population have been, at best, ignored, more often derided and insulted as they watch every little bit of their way of life dwindle away and die a slow death. And not to mention having the courts perceivedly attack their moral values.

Really, I do understand.

However, I still think that voting for Trump is a silly option. Yes, he paid a lot of really good lip service to those issues, but in reality, I don't think that he's going to do anything but burn down the system which isn't good for anybody. Clinton was certainly not a good candidate in any regard, but at the very least, she could be trusted to not lock the door and set the barn on fire pretending that it was an improvement.

That's just IMO, though.


Honestly I don't think Trump will cause a whole lot of change. Because it seems to me that Trump isn't really prepared for the realities of the presidential office. Most likley he will only do enough to appease his supporters, though who knows maybe he will rise to the challenge.
User avatar
Billobob
Rider of the Mark

 
Posts: 932
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:50 am
Location: Greenwood the Great.
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby LleuLlewGyffes » Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:23 am

A strong impression I have of this election is not so much that people voted for Trump, but that people voted strongly against Clinton. I feel that near any opponent would have defeated Trump, but the astonishing hubris of a Democratic Party anointing their chosen one, manipulating the party structure to ensure this deeply unpopular individual won the nomination, then running on a whollly divisive gender specific ticket (young women "traitors" for not voting for Hillary!) was an accident waiting to happen. Then Clinton took rust belt states for granted, and though California gave her a majority (just) in the popular vote, she lost via the electoral college. Against Trump...
There may, at least, be some lesson to learn; don't run candidates on extreme feminist platforms. It alienates more than it attracts. It might work in certain "liberal" echo chambers, but it just doesn't represent majority thinking.
LleuLlewGyffes
Citizen of Imladris
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:24 pm
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby Aravar » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:05 pm

My favourite comment on the election so far is

"The Democrats haven't been so upset since the Republicans freed their slaves".
User avatar
Aravar
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 3161
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 8:57 am
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby hamlet » Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:53 am

While I doubt very much it'll make any real difference in the grand scheme of things, it will be interesting to watch the recount proceed.

Even if the recount should reveal a change in the state's electoral votes, I somehow think that Obama and Clinton will probably err on the side of saying "the election is done now, let's just leave off."
User avatar
hamlet
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 10537
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 12:01 pm
Top

Re: The 2016 Elections

Postby The Nameless Thing » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:24 am

Watching the inauguration. Half of me still can't believe it, the other half is yelling, 'LET'S DO THIS'!
User avatar
The Nameless Thing
Ranger of the North
 
Posts: 1304
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2000 1:00 am
Location: The Nameless Inn
Top

Previous

Return to Philosophy: Councils of Manwë

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron