The Russia Question

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The Russia Question

Postby Thor 'n' Oakenshield » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:42 am

Here's the place to discuss the Russian investigation! I soon get lost among legal terms and whatnot, even though I watch the news basically every night, so I know what's going on, it would just be hard for me to explain what it is! But I'll do my best here. Right at the moment, it seems to have come out that Trump tried to bribe Vladimir Putin. Share your thoughts, y'all.
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Re: The Russia Question

Postby Minardil » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:53 am

Are you talking about his gift of a $50million penthouse in Trump Tower Moscow? Perhaps that can be considered a “bribe”, but since Trump has been doing business with (ie: Laundering money for) Russian oligarchs for years, it seems more like just “business as usual” for him.
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Re: The Russia Question

Postby Thor 'n' Oakenshield » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:55 pm

Minardil wrote:Are you talking about his gift of a $50million penthouse in Trump Tower Moscow? Perhaps that can be considered a “bribe”, but since Trump has been doing business with (ie: Laundering money for) Russian oligarchs for years, it seems more like just “business as usual” for him.


Oh, yes, I do believe that was it: gods, it feels like so long ago. I've been taking a break from the news recently, except Presidential campaign stuff that's going on. You're right though - bribery is business as usual for Trump.
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Re: The Russia Question

Postby RoseMorninStar » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:00 pm

Bribery. Money laundering. It's what everybody does, right?

My thoughts are that Trump either knows full well all of the Russian involvement in his campaign (and therefore complicit to a greater or lesser degree) and if not, he's too ignorant to be president. There is far too much Russian involvement at every turn.
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Re: The Russia Question

Postby Storyteller » Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:08 am

I had a flashback of Hillary Clinton gifting the Russian President a big fancy "reset" button, hilariously mistranslated as "overload". And the words "Uranium One" somewhere in the back of my memory.

It occurs to me that Russia's been cultivating both sides of the American political divide.
"...Their aim in war with Germany is nothing more, nothing less than extermination of Hitlerism... There is absolutely no justification for this kind of war. The ideology of Hitlerism, just like any other ideological system, can be accepted or rejected, this is a matter of political views. But everyone grasps, that an ideology can not be exterminated by force, must not be finished off with a war.” - Vyacheslav Molotov, ""On the Foreign Policy of the Soviet Union", 31 October 1939
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Re: The Russia Question

Postby RoseMorninStar » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:12 am

FactCheck.Org on the Uranium One deal

Trump has had at least 4 meetings with Putin where American translators/Aides were not allowed or the transcripts were torn up. What we 'know' about those chats came from Russia, which shouldn't be trusted at all. Trump has said he trusts Putin and Kim Jong Un more than he trusts his own administration and intelligence officers. This, from the AP shouldn't make anyone feel safe. It's all about money.
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Re: The Russia Question

Postby Thor 'n' Oakenshield » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:24 pm

Who watched the Michael Cohen testimony the other day? I did.
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Re: The Russia Question

Postby ihadababyitsaboy » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:36 pm

I guess we don't have to wonder or sleuth anymore - the Mueller report is out. I think the collusion concern is dead (which I think everyone in the West should be relieved by). Lots of palace intrigue got revealed in the report too, but with no criminal wrongdoing (by the President, that is) we are now firmly in the infinitely more vicious yet much less interesting spin phase of the investigation.
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Re: The Russia Question

Postby Otaku-sempai » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:58 am

It is a relief to be able to dismiss the accusations of collusion. However, there is still the troubling issue of obstruction of justice. Mueller is unable to indict the President, but neither has he been able to declare him innocent. I guess the next step is up to Congress.
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Re: The Russia Question

Postby ihadababyitsaboy » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:55 pm

At this point the matter of obstruction, given the special council's inability to charge a crime, is relegated to a purely political issue. I can't see Democrat leadership consenting to the politically-fraught path of formal impeachment at this point. I expect them to instead use the report to impugn the President's character and aim to beat him at the polls in 2020.
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Re: The Russia Question

Postby RoseMorninStar » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:11 pm

"Special counsel Robert Mueller said Wednesday he believed he was constitutionally barred from charging President Donald Trump with a crime but pointedly emphasized that his Russia report did not exonerate the president.

“If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so,” Mueller said. “We did not however make a determination as to whether the president did commit a crime.”
(bolding mine)

What should be kept in mind is that Mueller did not have access to Trumps tax returns or financial records.. and a great many other things that would normally happen in such an investigation. He had insufficient evidence to conclude that a crime had been committed. That is vastly different than 'exonerating'.

Trump has installed sycophants in important positions and he has also chosen to not fill many cabinet and other important positions, preferring to have 'acting' personnel that do not go through the usual and proper vetting process (are not confirmed by the Senate). He often has people who are vastly unqualified or inexperienced. Trump has done a great many things to circumvent the normal political process. We are supposed to have three co-equal branches of government which have separate powers but are supposed to act as a check on the other branches. That is not what we currently have. Attorney Generals are not supposed to be 'protecting' the president, but the American people and it's laws.

It now seems that he's made a 'promise' to a foreign leader that is considered a national security issue. I'm tired of him & his messes.
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Re: The Russia Question

Postby Cerin » Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:11 pm

A couple of inaccuracies, or one might say, assumptions, in the current Ukraine-related impeachment reporting are driving me crazy. Biden is constantly referred to in media reports as Trump's 'opponent' or 'rival,' but Trump will have no opponent/rival until a Democratic nominee is chosen, and that's almost a year away. Biden's current opponents/rivals are Warren, Sanders, Buttigieg et al. It can't be assumed that Biden will be Trump's opponent in the Presidential race.

The second claim constantly being made is that Trump is seeking the investigation of Biden's Ukraine activities 'for personal gain.' But it can only be seen as personal gain if one assumes that Trump wants to damage Biden's candidacy. But in my opinion, Biden would be Trump's first choice of opponent because of the lack of mental vigor Biden is demonstrating (i.e., Biden would be a disaster in a debate against Trump, whereas any of the other younger, and/or mentally sharper, and/or more energetic candidates would make a much stronger debate opponent). So if one assesses Biden as one of the weakest Democratic candidates, Trump is actually working against his own best interest in seeking an investigation of Biden's actions as VP.
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Re: The Russia Question

Postby basil » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:37 pm

Cerin wrote:if one assesses Biden as one of the weakest Democratic candidates, Trump is actually working against his own best interest in seeking an investigation of Biden's actions as VP.


Which I do. JB is too what I consider establishment, HRC 2.0 and too much problematic political baggage.
We have a decent shot at electing a female president, the males we've had over the past few decades haven't been up to par, IMHO.


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