Democrats, dost thou know where thou art?

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Postby Entmooting » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:02 am

Major Kong wrote: It is amazing how quickly the people forget how poorly the Democrats govern.l
And even more amazing that people would ever vote Republican again, considering their records in office... :roll:
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Postby vison » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:09 am

Major Kong wrote:How about it southpaws? Dissent is patriotic. Or was that just another load of B.S. you all swallowed?


Dissent is: "I disagree with you. I disagree with you because _________ and besides, ___________."

Dissent is not: "You are a bunch of idiots! You are all sheeple! Just wait! Your guy is gonna flame out! My guy is better just because!!! You all swallowed a bunch of B. S.!!"
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Postby basil » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:38 am

Entmooting wrote:And even more amazing that people would ever vote Republican again, considering their records in office...


. . . or read fish-wrap like a column from the aptly named Dan Balz.

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Postby Xhen » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:27 am

I remember writing not long after the 2008 election, when there was a lot of chest thumping going on here, that the American public needed to be reminded every so often how just bad the Democratic party is when they have total control. Even I didn't expect the public to learn that lesson this quickly, though. The arrogance, ideological blindness, addiction to spending, incompetence, and corruption has been on full display for almost two years now and they are about to get a serious beatdown in November. It couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch.

You can talk all you want about how polarizing Sarah Palin is, but I don't think there's a more unpopular politician in America than Nancy Pelosi, with Harry Reid a close second. Here in Texas, virtually every GOP commercial makes sure to mention Pelosi at least once. Several times if they can work it in.
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Postby Jnyusa » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:49 am

You know, I could be completely wrong about this but I think the party that is going to get a bad surprise in November is the Republican Party.

I don't think most people in American give a damn about where mosques are built or who wins in Afghanistan or whether science is at war with the Bible.

They want to feel that the government is trying to do something about the various crises that confront us, and they can smell b.s. bullhorning and obstructionism and posturing as well as anyone else in the world can smell it.

There is a small contingent dominating the news right now that is dumber than dirt and louder than a jackhammer, but when it comes time to pull the lever in that voting both, what do the majority of people do? They go with the side that is 'close enough' to caring what happens to them. They favor the known commodity over the unknown risk if it is the least bit reasonable.

When we say that Americans are 'conservative' I think that translates mainly into 'cautious.' I think there is generally a lot of anger with government in general right now but that does not necessarily translate into change-at-any-price at the polls. It hasn't been that long since the Republicans were in power for people to have forgotten what happened when they were.

And I don't think we should underestimate the fact that disenchantment with the Republicans was so great that we actually voted an African American into the White House. Remember that everyone my age in this country, and we are half the population (!) went to segregated schools. That is quite a lot of subconscious garbage to have overcome when you consider how deeply most people think about the sources of their own prejudices, namely not at all! That was quite a message that was sent to the Republicans given that John McCain was not at all an unreasonable candidate. Its significance should not be overlooked.
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Postby Major Kong » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:39 pm

I suppose every major polling organization could be wrong...

but the fact that the left is about to get a serious smack down is reflected by the bunker mentality of the left on Manwe...
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Postby Dave_LF » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:30 am

Xhen wrote:I don't think there's a more unpopular politician in America than Nancy Pelosi, with Harry Reid a close second.


Yeah right. The GOP loves to keep beating that dead horse (I think it must have a whole stable full of those), but outside of their home states, the reaction of the average American to either of those names is, "who?"

Edit: And here's your proof
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Postby basil » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:40 am

Jnyusa wrote:You know, I could be completely wrong about this but I think the party that is going to get a bad surprise in November is the Republican Party.


Heaven ForFend!

:)

538 asks the burning question:

Odd that Rasmussen has polled the SD and ND at-large House districts -- tough Democratic holds -- but not the tough GOP hold in DE.


It is odd, because when you are polling a Senate race in a state with only one Congressional district, it doesn't require any additional effort to poll the House race, as well. When Daily Kos opened up our new polling partnership with PPP, we did so in Delaware. And, as you can see (PDF file), we made sure to poll the House race.

Perhaps the outcome of that poll (we had Democrat John Carney up double digits on either Republican) explains why Rasmussen stayed away from it. It would seem that it would be an ethical morass for them to sit on data that wasn't amenable to Republicans. But they could certainly choose not to poll it. And that would appear to be what they have done, in this case.


Rats Messin'.

pffft.

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Postby basil » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:43 am

Dave_LF wrote:The GOP loves to keep beating that dead horse . . .


You do know why, don't you?

Dead Horses don't fight back, kick, bite. Perfect battle scenario for the ChickenHawk.

:rofl:

Yeepers :!: It squeaked :!:


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Postby ILvEowyn » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:10 am

I suppose every major polling organization could be wrong...


There hasn't been all that much polling of the difficult races, and as noted above, some pollsters are consistently churning out far more GOP-friendly results than others, as if they're trying to.
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Postby Cenedril_Gildinaur » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:44 am

Jnyusa wrote:You know, I could be completely wrong about this but I think the party that is going to get a bad surprise in November is the Republican Party.


Perhaps. There is a lot of dissatisfaction though. Poll numbers are interesting. When confined to just two options, Republicans beat Democrats. When "other" is included, Other wins, Democrats come in second, and Republicans in third. Where the "other" voters end up on voting day will determine who gets the nasty surprise.

Jnyusa wrote:And I don't think we should underestimate the fact that disenchantment with the Republicans was so great that we actually voted an African American into the White House. Remember that everyone my age in this country, and we are half the population (!) went to segregated schools. That is quite a lot of subconscious garbage to have overcome when you consider how deeply most people think about the sources of their own prejudices, namely not at all! That was quite a message that was sent to the Republicans given that John McCain was not at all an unreasonable candidate. Its significance should not be overlooked.


I predicted the rehabilitation of McCain would have to come sooner or later. Now it is happening in order to boost Obama.

Before he became the Republican presidential candidate, McCain was the Democrat's favorite Republican. He had a reputation as a maverick because he spent a few decades bucking his party to support occasional Democrat proposals. But the moment he became the opponent of Obama he was the hard core radical right extremist.

Now Obama needs to be viewed as beating a decent guy, and McCain is rehabilitated into the good Republican, the nice Republican, the Republican you wouldn't be embarrassed to be caught in public with.

The rest of it ... yes, previous generations had a racial issue. That doesn't reflect on post-boomer generations who wish you boomers would just get over it. Yeah, things were bad when you were young. Ok. Are you still then? We're not. We never were.
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Postby vison » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:17 pm

C_G wrote:The rest of it ... yes, previous generations had a racial issue. That doesn't reflect on post-boomer generations who wish you boomers would just get over it. Yeah, things were bad when you were young. Ok. Are you still then? We're not. We never were.


I think you are speaking for yourself, C_G. Of course you are, we all do.

But if you think that the election of Mr. Obama wasn't some kind of watershed moment? I think you're mistaken.

Post-boomers are not much less racist than pre-boomer generations. Not all the opposition to Mr. Obama is based on his politics - a lot of it is race-based. You will argue that I am wrong, perhaps, but I think I'm right. :)
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Postby Cenedril_Gildinaur » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:32 pm

Most of those who oppose Obama have no problem with Clarence Thomas being a Justice on the Supreme Court.

Of course, I once did have someone try to explain that Thomas isn't really black, and that he's not uppity. Thinking he's qualified to be on the Supreme Court isn't uppity?

I do think the prevalence of racism is lower in post-boomer generations. Not absent, but lower. Yes, they did a good job fighting it. But the wars they fought are largely over, they should declare victory instead of reliving the past.
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Postby Minardil » Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:15 pm

I think that most of the people who are violenty opposed to Mr. Obama would still be opposed to him if he were White, as there are real philosophical differences between them. But there IS a definite overlay of racism to much of the more virulent opposition. All the talk of him being "foreign" or "a muslim" certainly has a racist overtone and has contributed greatly to the ugliness and the anger.
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Postby shiftenter » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:38 pm

from cg

Poll numbers are interesting. When confined to just two options, Republicans beat Democrats. When "other" is included, Other wins, Democrats come in second, and Republicans in third.


Do you have a link to these polls? I would like to see if that statement is supported by good data.

Now if we can just figure out who these "others" are. They certainly are not the minor parties that are on the election ballot presidential election after presidential election who barely get a full one-half percent of the vote. Not only are they going nowhere, but they are doing it very slowly.
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Postby Major Kong » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:35 pm

Rangel, Waters ethics trials not expected until after Nov. election

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/11826 ... r-election

good for you

bad for them
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Postby TheEllipticalDisillusion » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:54 am

This is where the Democrats could be, but they should remember to be reasonable.

The Daily Show's Rally to Restore Sanity
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Postby rwhen » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:02 am

TED. I watched both The Daily Show and The Colbert Report last night. It was rather amusing. I wonder what sort of turn out they will get? It is being reported in the MSM today, I saw it on the crawl on CNN this morning. Colbert's take is just opposite of being "reasonable", but I think they are trying to show the irony of extreme politics/rallies. Also former President Clinton was on the Daily Show last night, he came off very well I think.

He made a joke about the wedding of Chelsea being his contribution to the stimulus.
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Postby Frelga » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:43 pm

I am seriously contemplating traveling to that rally, carrying a sign with "I disagree with you but I'm pretty sure you are not Hitler." I do have bleep to do, but if there was a chance of a moot on top of the rally, I'd start looking for tickets. Anyone?
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Postby Griffon64 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:59 pm

If they held one in every downtown in America, I'd be at my downtown with bells on. ;) But DC's a little hard to swing 'cause hey, the recession an' all.
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Postby vison » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:07 am

"They" can. Make a sign and go downtown. :)
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Postby Griffon64 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:01 pm

That's a good point! :D

When there was some tea party demonstration in town, the paper went to cover it. I recall that the turnout was teeny-tiny [ very conservative town, this, so it was pretty surprising. ] so maybe this kind of rally would draw more people and that would be an interesting story. Hmmmmm.
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Postby Frelga » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:47 pm

vison wrote:"They" can. Make a sign and go downtown. :)


Our downtown already is rife with lone nuts holding up signs. :D These things do need some name recognition, to say nothing of permits, fees, and Eru knows what. But maybe Griffy and I can meet halfway between our towns and bring our signs. :D
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Postby vison » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:19 pm

Frelga wrote:
vison wrote:"They" can. Make a sign and go downtown. :)


Our downtown already is rife with lone nuts holding up signs. :D These things do need some name recognition, to say nothing of permits, fees, and Eru knows what. But maybe Griffy and I can meet halfway between our towns and bring our signs. :D


The signs don't matter.

Votes matter. :)
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Postby DarkJello » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:29 pm

Votes for change come November.

Not that I am holding my breath until then or anything.

The country has serious problems brewing, and the eye is slowly being taken off the proverbial ball as we continue our introspective love affair. The storm clouds are building, but is anyone gonna be awake for that 0300 phone call? I sure hope so...

In r/t to an earlier comment, Pelosi is not dead. It is not our fault she is taking a beating. She transformed into a pinata and then keeps on passing sticks out to her opponents. Of course she is gonna take a licking. At least until all the candy flies out and the kiddies rush in for the goods. Not sure what happens after that...

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Postby Frelga » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:56 pm

vison wrote:
The signs don't matter.

Votes matter. :)


That is true, of course. The reason we've got the Government we've got is because they got the most votes, which occasionaly is a scary thought.

And then again, politicians know they need votes and they know that the loud folks with the signs WILL turn out and vote in a predictable fashion. The Busy Majority? Who knows.

That's why I am inclined to take rallies by comedians seriously. It is pretty much the best venue for rational people to say, look, we actually are the majority. We don't actually care about which party is in charge but if they want to get there, they better show that they got the competence to govern and not just the ability to best insult the opposition.
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Postby vison » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:06 am

I think the Australian system of mandatory voting is a good one. I would favour it in Canada, I can tell you that. We are very, very poor voters up here.

We must be. Look at our PM. :x
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Postby Frelga » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:51 am

I keep going back and forth on that. On the one hand, I see your point. On the other, would it really improve matters to have someone grumble all the way to the polling place and cast their vote without bothering to inform themselves about implications?
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Postby Major Kong » Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:36 pm

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Postby Major Kong » Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:38 pm

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