Trayvon Martin

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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby Minardil » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:03 am

The Heretic wrote:
Minardil wrote:"
Zimmerman's brother said that Zimmerman had told him that the fight began when Martin tried to "disarm" him."


Zimmerman's brother is not clear on how fight started,

That is not what you said previously. As I quoted your statement above
Minardil above wrote:
"Zimmerman's brother said that Zimmerman had told him that the fight began when Martin tried to "disarm" him."

he is only clear in saying that Martin attempted to disarm his brother. It is a reasonable assumption that it MIGHT have started when Martin attempted to take Zimmerman's gun away.

But that is not what you said above, when you made a false claim about what Zimmerman's brother said. And which you were unable to support when challenged.
But this is what you do all too often Minardil. You have this dishonest habit of making false statements about what others say, think, or believe.


Oh more useless quibbling and name calling and accusations of dishonesty. Sigh. Really, it would be fun to get back to discussing issues with people who were capable of intellectual exchanges over interesting issues. But as I said, the way I READ Zimmerman's interview, it is a logical interpretation to read his words as saying that the fight broke out over the gun, and yes, that is what I think Zimmerman was saying.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby Minardil » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:11 am

solicitr wrote:Insults? Calling the press a "lynch mob" in this case is true, and therefore not an insult no matter how unflattering. If the torch and pitchfork fit, NBC et al can wear them.


Ah, well, you claimed the detail of the gun had been "invented" by the press. Your claim here is completely untrue. It was Mrs. Zimmerman who said there was a gun, and this was reported by the press, not "invented" by them. In your zeal to pillory the press, you got the details wrong.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby Minardil » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:17 am

portia wrote:
(Mrs. Z, by some reports, claimed he had his hand on his gun, that is "on his person," that was not true.)



She claimed he was threatening her with the gun, then went back to sit in his truck "with his hand on his gun" or words to that effect. At some point after that the Police arrived. Are you claiming it is impossible for Zimmerman to leave the gun in his glove box when he got out of the truck to talk to the police? They searched him, not his truck.

It is also entirely possible that he never took the gun out of the glove box and that Mrs. Z made the whole thing up. Domestic disturbances are very tricky situations. People say and do absolutely crazy things, and might change their stories completely around several times.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby The Heretic » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:30 am

Minardil wrote:Oh more useless quibbling and name calling and accusations of dishonesty.

Well, pointing out your falsehoods is useless to one extent. You are incapable of stopping.
Sigh. Really, it would be fun to get back to discussing issues with people who were capable of intellectual exchanges over interesting issues.

To Minardil, it is the height of intellectual exchange to to make dishonest assertions, and no fun if his false claims are pointed out.
Your claim about what Zimmerman said in the interview was a complete invention.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby GlassHouse » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:11 am

Naked Florida man fatally shot by passing motorist after having clothes stolen



The family of a Florida man is searching for answers after he was shot by a passing motorist while running home naked because his clothes had been stolen while at the beach.

Jandei Cherry, who The Orlando Sentinel described as a 22-year-old “free-spirited musician and doting father,” had decided to run home naked last week after a friend took off with his clothes and skateboard.

Hollywood police said that somewhere along the less than 10-mile journey back to his home, a passing motorist stopped to investigate why a nude man was running down the street. Police believed that a conflict with the motorist resulted in Cherry being fatally shot.

“It is not normal for someone to be running naked down Hollywood Boulevard,” Hollywood police Lt. Osvaldo Perez explained. “I think that’s what spiked the other guy’s attention.”

Duke Laguerre, 29, told police that he passed Cherry on highway 29 and then turned around and went back to confront him. That’s when Laguerre apparently shot Cherry in the stomach, but he offered no other details about the encounter.

“The more I think about this, the more I think it makes no sense,” Cherry’s mother, Auta, told the Sentinel. “It is heartbreaking.”

“He was running naked, yes, but he had no choice. And knowing my son he would have forgiven the man who shot him.”

As of Monday, Laguerre had not been charged for shooting the 22-year-old father.

Watch this video from The Orlando Sentinel, broadcast Oct. 15, 2013.


Details are lacking at the moment but it's hard to see why the motorist thought he had to shoot an unarmed naked or even why he thought it was his business to stop and confront the man - but as no charges have been filed yet we have to assume there's more to it than meets the eye. Otherwise we have to assume that Zimmerman's acquittal has made stand your ground now include deliberately stopping your car and getting out to shoot an unarmed man. This will be interesting to follow.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby Minardil » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:48 am

And the hate machine is already spooling up. I hadn't heard of this story, so I googled it, and this is the very first hit:

http://truenewsusa.blogspot.com/2013/10/village-retard-jandei-cherry-fatally.html

Village Retard Jandei Cherry FATALLY SHOT AFTER HAVING HIS CLOTHES STOLEN WHILE DOING THE HOMOSEXUAL DOWN LO' ON THE BEACH

Naked Florida man fatally shot by passing motorist after having clothes stolen

(Yes, everybody would jog home naked in public after having their clothes stolen, right?)


And THAT was the headline!!!

Here are the comments:


3 comments:



Anonymous said...
Haaaaahaaaaa. Now that's funny, a doting father huh? Doting his dong on some young brutha on da beach.
October 16, 2013 at 12:00 PM

Anonymous said...
“free-spirited musician and doting father,”

Bwahahahaha what they really mean is...Another inspiring future rap star that has nothing to do with his kids.
October 16, 2013 at 12:13 PM

Ruddy said...
Oh come on I'm sure the swarthy Nubian wasn't engaged in any form of b**t f**king or C**k s**king after all They have the fine example of Manliness in the White House to look up to.


I think it's easy to see where the lines of argument are already falling here. Can't wait to read similar arguments being made right here on this thread, including detailed explanations of how none of these comments are remotely racist at all.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby solicitr » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:42 pm

Otherwise we have to assume that Zimmerman's acquittal has made stand your ground now include deliberately stopping your car and getting out to shoot an unarmed man.


No, "we" don't have to assume anything of the sort, although certain leftish types who hate SYG may choose to assume it, since it suits their worldview.

---------------------
Minardil: I'm not sure what your post is supposed to prove. That there are callous morons who aren't upset and grieved at an apparently senseless killing? They exist. The Intertubes is full of 'em.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby Minardil » Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:08 pm

Minardil: I'm not sure what your post is supposed to prove. That there are callous morons who aren't upset and grieved at an apparently senseless killing? They exist. The Intertubes is full of 'em


Yes, that is exactly what that was supposed to prove.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby ToshoftheWuffingas » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:27 pm

I thought it had been proven closer to home.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby solicitr » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:01 pm

ToshoftheWuffingas wrote:I thought it had been proven closer to home.



Cheap, cheap shot.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby Jnyusa » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:43 pm

Tosh wrote:I thought it had been proven closer to home.

solicitr wrote:Cheap, cheap shot.


I'd have to say that shot was a bullseye.

Being really perplexed by the inconclusiveness of the whole Martin incident, I did something that I almost never do in cases like this where the media has spewed all over everything and made the truth impenetrable. I devoted 2-3 days during summer listening to everything about the incident that was available on the internet - trial testimony (particularly the testimony of the CSI who examined the gun and holster), maps of the area showing the path that both men walked, Zimmerman's first interview with the police, the tapes of his phone call to 911, and the testimony of Martin's woman friend (particularly her testimony regarding Martin's words while standing out of the rain by the mailboxes and watching Zimmerman watching him).

By the time I had listened to everything I felt like I did understand what happened that night. The prosecution probably had no chance of getting a conviction in Florida, given Florida's gun laws and given the incredibly stupid decisions that both these men made. But I think that if it had happened in Pennsylvania, the State would have gotten their conviction, certainly for second degree murder if not for first degree.

But more importantly, what prompted me to seriously read up on this case were the things I read on this forum about Trayvon Martin. And the one inescapable conclusion I drew is that all of the posting by solicitr and Heretic was vile fabrication. Vile and aimed at defaming a kid. Why? What could possibly motivate the hatred, lies, and defamation of Trayvon Martin that peppered this thread?

Me, I think this thread was the poster child for the form racism takes in America today. We don't have hundreds of lynchings begging for space in our newspapers. Instead we are deafened by blame-the-victim diatribes, whether it is blaming Black victims of crime for their own deaths and dressing up foul slanders about their personal lives, or blaming Blacks who get ahead of us for reverse discrimination, or hysterical lies about our Black president and mockery of his Black wife.

It was vomitous to go back and read the posts of solicitr and Heretic after listening to the evidence available online, such as it was. Unfortunately every thread in the forum sounds like that these days: full of made-up stuff, foul language, sneers, ad hominem attacks. Three people are responsible for all of it. Everyone else is hogtied and frustrated responding to them. Enough to keep me away most of the time.

I'm glad Tosh said a subtle something about it.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby The Heretic » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:19 am

Jnyusa wrote:
But more importantly, what prompted me to seriously read up on this case were the things I read on this forum about Trayvon Martin. And the one inescapable conclusion I drew is that all of the posting by solicitr and Heretic was vile fabrication.

Really? Go on and provide some of these fabrications I posted, Jnyusa.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby portia » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:30 am

Pick anything at random.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby Minardil » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:44 pm

Vile and aimed at defaming a kid. Why? What could possibly motivate the hatred, lies, and defamation of Trayvon Martin that peppered this thread?



He wasn't a kid, he was a "tatted up thug." Didn't you read what the Troika was saying about him?
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby The Heretic » Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:29 pm

portia wrote:Pick anything at random.


"Once more, you are making sweeping generalizations, without backing them up."
"I suggest you provide dates and, if necessary, times. Then we will see if your accusations have any merit."
Or rather, I suggest you provide quotes and, if necessary, links to the posts.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby ToshoftheWuffingas » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:50 am

There's the unscrupulous, dishonest press, the ambitious, unethical prosecutor, and a victim made into a saintly "honor student" by the propaganda machine. The only real differences in the dramatis personae are that Sherman was a jerkhead millionaire bond trader, and guilty at least of accessory to hit & run; and Wolfe's teenage black victim did nothing to bring about his own demise.


Trayvon Martin is dead because he chose- chose- to launch an unprovoked violent assault on a victim who wasn't as defenseless as he thought.

You think Zimmermann should live a furtive, miserable life because he defended that life from a thug? You would rather, I take it, Zimmermann had been unarmed, and thus today in a wheelchair or a coma. Your attitude is sick.


The fact that he was wandering through yards and peering in windows, in an area which had seen a string of burglaries
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby ToshoftheWuffingas » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:03 am

I wonder if you will admit that Martin, whom Obama famously declared would look like his son, was a tatted up, grill wearing, drug using, wannabe gangsta thug, who referred to women as b's and ho's and made posts about making people bleed and selling guns and drugs? That he was not a sweet innocent little angel as was portrayed by the media with the picture of him at 12.


You're calling that quoted passage racist??? Gott in Himmel. Are you asserting there's some gene derived from African ancestry that makes people call women bi**hes and hoes, commit burglaries, buy and sell illegal guns and drugs, wear tats and grills, and beat people up for fun?

You don't think that the fact that Martin was a regular participants in illicit "fight clubs" and street fights, who enjoyed boasting of the injuries he inflicted, and offered to teach his friends his techniques for drawing blood and breaking bones, relevant in any way?


If you really think that what I have said makes or proves me a racist, then you really are nothing but a pathetic, spite-driven grievance-mongering race pimp. Time to turn the gain down on your hypersensitive race-dar... it's pegging the meter.

Tell me: would you be this upset had it been a white petty criminal who was shot?"



The fact that Martin enjoyed beating people up for fun certainly lends weight to the contention that it was he who initiated the confrontation, and that Z was indeed suffering a battery of sufficient severity to put him in fear of grave bodily harm.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby The Heretic » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:21 am

I think only one of those is from me, and since, when Portia previously asked where I got my information, and I sourced my assertions (by linking to, I think the Orlando paper, CNN and Daily caller), with pictures of Martin, his tats, grill, and text messages of him saying he was a gangster, his buddy calling him a thug, and about drug use, women and violence, none of it was a vile fabrication. It was quite factual.
Hence, epic fail, Tosh.
Care to try again?
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby ToshoftheWuffingas » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:56 am

It shows a picture of certain people going out of the way to portray an unarmed youngster shot down in the street as a thug asking for it. Of course not one racial epithet was used, merely all the typical dog whistle memes and fake 'evidence' quoted from right wing blogs (and they would NEVER be racist now would they boys and girls?)
How many times was solictr corrected on his 'facts'? Remember the 158lb corpse becoming a 180lb one?
Not one word of regret that an innocent youngster was gunned down in the street. How many people has Zimmerman threatened since his release by the way? How many people has he pulled a gun on since his release by the way?
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby hamlet » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:05 am

Jnyusa wrote:Me, I think this thread was the poster child for the form racism takes in America today. We don't have hundreds of lynchings begging for space in our newspapers. Instead we are deafened by blame-the-victim diatribes, whether it is blaming Black victims of crime for their own deaths and dressing up foul slanders about their personal lives, or blaming Blacks who get ahead of us for reverse discrimination, or hysterical lies about our Black president and mockery of his Black wife.

It was vomitous to go back and read the posts of solicitr and Heretic after listening to the evidence available online, such as it was. Unfortunately every thread in the forum sounds like that these days: full of made-up stuff, foul language, sneers, ad hominem attacks. Three people are responsible for all of it. Everyone else is hogtied and frustrated responding to them. Enough to keep me away most of the time.

I'm glad Tosh said a subtle something about it.


And one of the things that I've become convinced of over the course of the whole thing is that the insistance that this issue boils down, primarily, to racism is dramatically simplified and does a tremendous disservice to the serious issues of racism we face today.

Not to mention describing "the face of racism in America today" as this essentially blinds oneself to some very difficult realities.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby The Heretic » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:24 am

ToshoftheWuffingas wrote:It shows a picture of certain people going out of the way to portray an unarmed youngster shot down in the street as a thug asking for it. Of course not one racial epithet was used, merely all the typical dog whistle memes and fake 'evidence' quoted from right wing blogs (and they would NEVER be racist now would they boys and girls?)

Yes, I understand, CNN and the Orlando newspaper are right wing blogs (hmm, I vaguely recall you making similar assertions when I posted something from the Washinton Post or the AP). But you of course can't handle the fact that you can not show that I fabricated anything, so you have to try and distract and silence by crying racist.
You just go on and keep whinging, Tosh.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby ToshoftheWuffingas » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:32 pm

Sting a bit did it?

Of course it must have been Trayvon who launched an uprovoked assault on Zimmerman. Perish the thought that Zimmerman both had a history of violence and that he has put it behind him.

http://newsone.com/2783355/george-zimme ... iend-bail/

The real reason the Republican warriors that I quoted above took up the Zimmerman case and used all the techniques of covert racism is not racism itself, however readily they use its methodology. The right wing didn't really take much notice of the murder when it first occurred. Cue President Obama making some sympathetic off the cuff remarks at a press conference and the green light flashed on. After that, nothing could stop them. What you see here is little more than the Republican noise machine in all its ugly awfulness.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby The Heretic » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:09 pm

ToshoftheWuffingas wrote:Sting a bit did it?

Yes, your inability to actually provide anything that I 'fabricated' is quite stinging, Tosh.
It is why you are left with nothing but feeble attempts distract from your failure.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby ILvEowyn » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:33 pm

I bet Trayvon Martin cause this somehow too.

Zimmerman arrested for pointing guns at people again

A Florida judge on Tuesday set bail for George Zimmerman at $9,000 and ordered a number of conditions for his freedom -- including that he not possess weapons -- while he awaits trial on charges he pointed a shotgun at his girlfriend.

He was released from the John E. Polk Correctional Facility on Tuesday afternoon. He didn't speak with the media. It was unclear where he was headed.

Zimmerman was arrested Monday at his girlfriend's Apopka home, four months after he was acquitted of murdering teenager Trayvon Martin.

Earlier, Zimmerman said little as a judge, during Zimmerman's first appearance Tuesday afternoon in Seminole County court, said he found probable cause for Zimmerman's arrest on a felony charge of aggravated assault and misdemeanor counts of domestic violence battery and criminal mischief. Zimmerman's arraignment has been scheduled for January 7.

A prosecutor revealed a new allegation against Zimmerman while trying to argue for a higher bail -- that Zimmerman tried to choke his girlfriend a week and a half before Monday's alleged shotgun incident, and that Zimmerman had talked about suicide.


You'd think this guy would be a little more careful about his freedom and about the situations he puts himself in. Unless he just habitually puts himself in these sorts of situations...

Now watch how fast he gets convicted, since he apparently targeted a white woman this time.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby portia » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:01 am

The man has clear anger management issues, and should get help. Unfortunately, the news is full of similar confrontations, but Zimmerman should be a bit more careful.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby Minardil » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:37 pm

The real reason the Republican warriors that I quoted above took up the Zimmerman case and used all the techniques of covert racism is not racism itself, however readily they use its methodology. The right wing didn't really take much notice of the murder when it first occurred. Cue President Obama making some sympathetic off the cuff remarks at a press conference and the green light flashed on. After that, nothing could stop them. What you see here is little more than the Republican noise machine in all its ugly awfulness.


That's part of it, this reflexive instinct the Right has to automatically align themselves with whatever cause they see as being aligned with President Obama. I swear if Obama came out strongly in favor of breathing half of these idiots would claim that Oxygen was a Secret Muslim Terrorist Communist Socialist Radical Black Plot to DESTROY AMERICA, and they'd hold their breaths until they passed out.

But the OTHER part of it is the whole gun thing. When Zimmerman was initially released, this caused an upswelling of criticism against the Stand Your Ground law in particular, and guns in general. The Right likes to say that Guns Don't Kill - and they rightly point out that Guns are totally inanimate objects with are incapable of the intent to commit murder without a human hand. But they must ALSO think that Guns are terribly sensitive and delicately thin skinned creatures who suffer keenly from hurt feelings, because when anyone criticizes guns in the slightest, they immediately rush to defend the Guns against harsh language.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby solicitr » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:28 pm

t I think this thread was the poster child for the form racism takes in America today. We don't have hundreds of lynchings begging for space in our newspapers. Instead we are deafened by blame-the-victim diatribes, whether it is blaming Black victims of crime for their own deaths and dressing up foul slanders about their personal lives, or blaming Blacks who get ahead of us for reverse discrimination, or hysterical lies about our Black president and mockery of his Black wife.

It was vomitous to go back and read.....


What is vomitous is your deranged, spittle-flecked and incredibly malignant diatribe, practically an Onion-grade parody of the sanctimonious Lefty, including the antinomian purblindness according to which the likeminded are always honorable and virtuous, whereas any who disagree are necessarily evil and motivated by only the basest of impulses- together with the oh-so-tired charge of "racism" as if conservatives wouldn't despise Obama's policies and character if only he were a white guy, or that skin color is the only reason to be nauseated by Michelle Antoinette's parvenu gaucheries, or that our opinion of the Martin case would have been different had the dead thug been caucasian.

Congratulations, Leftosphere: your Race Card account has been closed for persistent overcharging.

Do get over yourself. You are simply a smug, snotty left-wing academic who can't abide the idea that rational people of good will might conceivably reject your dreary, stale and destructive ideology. And do also get over your high opinion your capacity for legal analysis, given your risible attribution of the verdict to "Florida's gun laws."
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby ToshoftheWuffingas » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:46 pm

I have a new drinking game. Knock one back every time solictr uses 'spittle-flecked'. A touch of projection methinks.

Jnyusa needs no one to defend her. Her qualities speak for themselves...as her detractors words too speak for themselves.

As Rabbie Burns noted:
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!"

I note too the apposite subject of his ditty.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby Jnyusa » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:43 am

For the record, I did not say, nor did I conclude from reviewing the case over the summer, that George Zimmerman was motivated by racism. On the contrary, I think that racism probably was not part of the actual confrontation between these men except in a very peripheral way. It is the posting in this thread by solicitr and Heretic that represents the face of racism in America today. I'm not sure what 'details' of their inner lives I might have overlooked in judging them so harshly, but I do judge them harshly for the volume of factoids they simply invented and their wholly unwarranted and vicious conclusions about the inner life of Trayvon Martin.

One of the things I have come to realize from talking with African-American women colleagues about their fears for their children is that the response that would be logical to a White person in a confrontational situation would not appear the same way to a Black person. If Trayvon Martin had been White instead of Black, I think (and this is only an opinion) that when he realized that George Zimmerman had been sitting in his car watching him and then had actually gotten out of the car and followed him, his first response would have been to call 911 rather than calling his girlfriend. That was George Zimmerman's first response. But a Black person in America today does not think of the police as a place to go for help. I needn't elaborate on the instances that have provoked this perspective on their part. This outcome can be traced to our history of racism, but it doesn't make Trayvon Martin or George Zimmerman racist at an individual level; rather, it makes their repertoires historically determined and different from each other. They have evolved different mind sets because of their differing race, without necessarily identifying it this way to themselves. Or maybe they do identify it this way to themselves but don't know how to overcome it even though they don't want to make racially motivated judgments.

If Trayvon Martin had been a White grown-up in a pinstripe suit, holding the Wall Street Journal over his head to keep out the rain instead of pulling up his hoody, I doubt that George Zimmerman would have followed him. But along that spectrum between hoody and Wall Street Journal, where exactly would racism begin? After listening to everything, literally everything that George Zimmerman told the police and his brother, I personally could not say that he was motivated by racism.

The summary judgments made by others, after the fact, about the character of these two men, that's where American racism showed through. Our willingness to decide guilt and innocence on that basis, without knowing anything about these two individuals, that's the part that is so revealing.
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