The Affordable Care Act

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The Affordable Care Act

Postby portia » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:49 am

The efforts to get people to be able to keep whatever insurance they had are just one of the sort of tweaks I have been talking about. Of course, no law is going to be perfect "right out of the box" and this adjustment is certainly only the first one that will be needed.

Why is this surprising ? Social Security, Medicare and the Income Tax, to name only a few obvious cases, have had to be adjusted frequently because people find loopholes or conditions change, or things did not work as expected. It is not a cause for panic; it is a case for some hard, practical thinking and efforts to address the problem.

What we end up with, under the title of the ACA in five years, may not be very much like what we have, but I will bet a lot of money that it will be an improvement over what we had before, and what we would have had if the previous situation had been allowed to continue.

TO those people who want to repeal it: what would you substitute instead? Do you want to go back to not covering pre-existing conditions? Do you want to go back to fraudulent insurance? Do you want to go back to insurance that is cancelled as soon as you make a claim? As I recall, Rand Paul made a alternate suggestion that was found to be more expensive. No one else had tried to offer an alternative.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby GlassHouse » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:19 am

to inaugurate your new thread, here's one of the growing number of success stories.

A woman in Maine went from being unable to afford $1200 a month under COBRA to a $98 a month premium she obtained through the federal ACA website.

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2013/11/14/w ... care-works

Lets hope she doesn't become a target for harassment from Right Wing extremists as this woman, who also had the temerity to speak publicly about her success with getting coverage through the ACA website, did.

Oh and the pres today has announcedthat the policies that were canceled due to their not meeting the base requirements of the new law will be grandfathered for one year. Which of course doesn't mean that insurance companies won't continue to cancel policies or to try to dupe and mislead their customers in order to make an additional profit.

Thousands of people used to fall victim to “rescission” every year. That was the practice of dumping policy holders when their bills got too big - the following was written in 2009 –

Blue Cross praised employees who dropped sick policyholders, lawmaker says

Workers received high marks on performance reviews after policies were rescinded, documents show. The health insurer denies the practice is a factor in evaluations.
June 17, 2009|Lisa Girion

Executives of three of the nation's largest health insurers told federal lawmakers in Washington on Tuesday that they would continue canceling medical coverage for some sick policyholders, despite withering criticism from Republican and Democratic members of Congress who decried the practice as unfair and abusive.


I wonder what their profit-margins over that same time period. Want to bet that it’s in the ten’s of billions?
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby ILvEowyn » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:04 pm

Following up on what GlassHouse said:

Obama announces fix to ACA

In an effort to head off a Democratic revolt, President Obama announced a fix to the Affordable Care Act Thursday that would let Americans keep their insurance plans for one year if they choose to.

A contrite Obama repeatedly took responsibility for the botched rollout of the law, and delivered a message to Americans who have complained about receiving cancellation notices: ”I hear you loud and clear.” On more than one occasion, the president said he and his administration “fumbled” the rollout of the law.

The fix would let people whose policies have been cancelled because they don’t meet Obamacare’s standards renew those policies, smoothing the transition to the insurance exchanges. It would also require insurance companies to tell people re-enrolling that their plans don’t meet the ACA’s requirements, and to give information about better options.

“Already people who have plans that predate the Affordable Care Act can keep those plans if they haven’t changed. That was already in the law,” Obama said. “Today we’re going to extend that principle both to people whose plans have changed since the law took effect and people who bought plans since the law took efffect.”

But the president reiterated that he would resist efforts aimed not at fixing but at weakening the ACA, a reference to a House Republican proposal, scheduled to receive a vote Friday, that experts say would fatally damage the law.

“I will not accept proposals that are a brazen attempt to undermine the law,” Obama said, adding: “I’m not going to walk away from 40 million Americans who can get health insurance for the first time.”

Hundreds of thousands of Americans have seen their insurance cancelled despite repeated promises from Obama that those who liked their insurance could keep it.

Crucially, Obama’s proposed change doesn’t require approval from lawmakers. Given Republican control of the House, the chances of getting any constructive fixes to the ACA through Congress are slim to none.

House Speaker John Boehner issued a statement calling the move “little more than a political response designed to shift blame rather than solve the problem.”

And Sen. Ted Cruz, the Texas Republican who has been the law’s most prominent critic, said in a statement: “We cannot ‘fix’ Obamacare. The damage has been done, as millions of Americans have already been made to pay higher premiums and lose their jobs, wages, and health care plans.”


So, imo, the President acknowledge his mistake and offered a reasonable solution.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby Minardil » Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:35 pm

I think the President should actually go a little further than what he has proposed.

I believe he should propose an amendment to the law that would:

1. Extend the Grandfather clause to cover all plans that were in existence or actively underwritten as of October 1st of THIS year, the date the Exchanges opened.
2. Require insurance companies to rescind any cancellation notices they have sent out, and continue to honor those existing plans as if they had never been cancelled.
3. Fine companies that sent out misleading notices, in which plans were cancelled for reasons NOT related to the new ACA rules, and where customers were mislead into thinking they were required to buy much more expensive plans than they needed.
4. Freeze the enrollment of any plan that does not meet ACA guidelines as of January 1st of 2014. You have two more months to buy your crappy old plan that doesn't cover anything, after that no more.

Republicans who are livid over these cancellations should be happy to support an amendment to law like this, as it addresses exactly the situation which they claim to be upset over.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby solicitr » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:02 pm

Minardil:
4. Freeze the enrollment of any plan that does not meet ACA guidelines as of January 1st of 2014. You have two more months to buy your crappy old plan that doesn't cover anything, after that no more.


Yes, that's the new spin- the "substandard" line. It's of course largely bull, unless "substandard" means better coverage for less money than the stuff being peddled on the Obamacare exchanges. Or for that matter if you consider it a "substandard" policy for a 70-year-old man if it doesn't include prenatal coverage.

I am jolly well amused at the spin, which is starting to resemble Baghdad Bob. And it's going to be even more amusing when the much bigger wave of cancellations is precipitated by the Employer Mandate kicking in: the real Bonfire of the Policies.

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Portia: I am still mystified at how you can call yourself a "Republican" and "right of center", considering your naive faith that this shipwreck will magically come out all right. This abortion was never seaworthy, and it is sinking in precisely the ways and for the very reasons we opponents predicted. Sorry, but the Titanic ain't gonna be reaching New York.

What would I propose in Obamacare's place? I would suggest that one should first stop stabbing the patient in the heart before worrying about how to cure him. First Law of Holes and all that.
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Glasshouse: "anecdote" is not the singular of "data."

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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby portia » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:26 pm

solicitr wrote:--------
Portia: I am still mystified at how you can call yourself a "Republican" and "right of center", considering your naive faith that this shipwreck will magically come out all right. This abortion was never seaworthy, and it is sinking in precisely the ways and for the very reasons we opponents predicted. Sorry, but the Titanic ain't gonna be reaching New York.

What would I propose in Obamacare's place? I would suggest that one should first stop stabbing the patient in the heart before worrying about how to cure him. First Law of Holes and all that.
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Panic has never been a viable political strategy. Not now: not ever. Ignorance of past governmental problems is also not a viable strategy. We've been through this before, and things worked out. They will again.

This is not to say that the ACA was the best we could have done. Remember Dr. Johnson's line about the resemblance between legislation and sausage. We do what we can. If it isn't perfect we work on it. The Titanic will indeed dock at NY. It may be a somewhat different looking ship than the present one.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby GlassHouse » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:15 am

There are a lot of stories of individuals being circulated. There are stories of both winners and losers and no, antidotes are not data - but that doesn't mean there's been any lack of them coming out of the Right wing media. A little balance is needed to these supposed stories of people upset about losing policies that they "liked".

So for balance, here's an opinion from one of the 3% of Americans who are predicted to come out of the ACA experience spending more for a policy then he did before the ACA.
An Obamacare "Loser" Speaks Out ... About Not Being an Entitled Douche

Since it’s been estimated that about 3% of the US population will end up “losers” under Obamacare, I thought I’d write in and give you my perspective as a 3-percenter. However, I suspect that I belong to a smaller subset of the 3%, that being people who find it appallingly self-indulgent and shamefully self-pitying to think of ourselves as losers.

Having insurance, even crappy insurance, in the individual market means we are almost by definition, healthy and relatively young. If we were not, we wouldn’t be able to get coverage of any kind in the non-group market. If our ACA-compliant replacement policy costs us more, it’s likely because we’re too affluent to qualify for subsidies.

It takes a remarkable degree of self-absorption and sense of self-entitlement to be healthy, young(ish) and affluent—and yet consider oneself a “loser.” It’s a label I reject out of shame (no matter how much the lazy, superficial MSM want to fixate on me and my “plight”) NOT because there’s anything shameful about being a loser; the shame is in thinking oneself a loser when one is actually fortunate.

I live in Louisiana where 400,000 working poor people will continue to go without health care because one man, Gov. Bobby Jindal, decided letting them have Medicaid wouldn’t be good for his future ambitions. Those 400,000 are the losers. And while my healthcare.gov application has been stuck for a month now at the “View Eligibility Results” stage, where instead of my results I see a blank screen when I click the button, I know I will get better health insurance than the bare-bones individual policy I have now, even if I end up having to pick up the phone, or heaven forbid, send in paper. I will pay significantly more, but after years of being one serious illness from financial ruin, I will finally have security. And not only that; every time I pay my new premium, I am paying into a system that makes it possible for my fellow Americans who have not been as lucky as me—people who really have been losers pre-ACA—to finally get affordable health care.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby basil » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:14 am

portia wrote:This is not to say that the ACA was the best we could have done.


Since Hayes has made it here onto a separate thread,.

http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/chris ... 4333379518

and

http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/healt ... 4333891609

I cannot disagree, especially WRT "wobbly democrats".

b
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby portia » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:43 am

Panic is not a viable political strategy. We have the law; it is our job to apply intelligence to the issues, find solutions and make it work.
It might be a possible assumption that there is not enough brainpower in the Congress and the blogosphere and the Executive to do that, but, I hope that is not the case.

Are we willing to make ourselves look foolish to the rest of the developed world that has much more protection for its people?
If other countries will be concerned about us if we are not willing to stand by allies, how much MORE will they worry about us if we cannot stand by our own policies?

Of course, I am one of the 95% plus who will have no problems with this Act. We need to recall that percentage.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby GlassHouse » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:38 am

TPM has been doing a great job covering the all the scams the insurance industry has been pulling during the ACA roll out.

Companies Use Obamacare Confusion To Sell 'Junk Insurance'

The Affordable Care Act was designed to make sure all Americans had a certain level of insurance. But TPM has learned that USHealth Group is actively telling consumers that they don't need that minimum level. In fact, company representatives are telling people they'd be better off without it. And the company may be just one player in a larger industry trend, where companies see non-ACA compliant plans, like the so-called fixed benefit coverage marketed by USHealth Group, as a business opportunity.

Health care industry analysts have long derided the kinds of non-insurance health care coverage products the company is selling as "junk insurance."

"They were not intended to be health insurance," Sabrina Corlette, a research professor at the Health Policy Institute at Georgetown University, told TPM, speaking about fixed benefit plans. "They were intended to be what are called income replacement policies. ... But over the years, these things have kind of morphed. And for many people, unfortunately, mainly because they come with a cheaper sticker price, they are marketed as and treated as health insurance. Even though the coverage is really crappy."


The company's argument can resonate with some people, and seems at least partially geared toward attracting people who oppose the ACA for political reasons.



This is truly ironic. It's the people who oppose the ACA for ideological reasons and are being whipped up into a frenzy of outrage by their leaders, who are the ones who will ultimately suffer. They're the ones who will wind up being the victims of these scams to sell crappy, bare-bones insurance that will ultimately mean they have to purchase additional insurance or leave them in deep financial trouble if they ever have a real need for adequate health insurance.

Laura Etherton, a health care policy analyst with U.S. Public Interest Research Group, echoed Pollitz's words.

"Consumers had good reason to be wary of these plans before now, and that hasn't changed," Etherton said in an email to TPM. "What's changing as the ACA takes full effect in 2014 is that many consumers have decent options for actual health insurance, so products like this look even worse."
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby solicitr » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:17 pm

portia wrote:
Of course, I am one of the 95% plus who will have no problems with this Act. We need to recall that percentage.


You're a government employee and exempt, lucky you. But 95%? Just wait until the employer mandate kicks in, the one which Obama has unilaterally delayed so far.* It will be the Bonfire of the Policies (not to mention a kick in the head to the depression-level employment situation)

It will all work out? Not hardly. Universal coverage, gold-plated policies and reduced premiums? Sorry- you can clap your hands and chant "I DO believe in fairies!" as loud as you like, but that Tinkerbell ain't coming to life.
“On October 1, millions of Americans . . . will finally be able to buy quality, affordable health insurance. In five days.” “Starting Tuesday,” he added, Americans will be able to “compare and purchase affordable health-insurance plans, side by side, the same way you shop for a plane ticket on Kayak — same way you shop for a TV on Amazon. You just go on and you start looking, and here are all the options.” --B H Obama, 9/26/13
To anyone who actually believed that, I have only one word- SUCKERS! No, that product cannot be both a floor wax and a dessert topping, and never will be.

Don't think that this fiasco can be fixed by some clever IT people with better web-design skills. The hilarious incompetence of the website clusterfark is merely amusing gravy on the cake. The *real* catastrophe is the policy cancellations - six million so far and counting- and the whole computer-science faculty of Caltech can't fix that, no, not even if you throw in the FBI to clean out the criminal "navigators." It's built into the very essence of Obamacare itself.... and everyone knew it

Jonah Goldberg wrote:But no one has lost their insurance because of the president’s assurances, they’ve lost their insurance because of the president’s law. If a captain has the lifejackets filled with cement, his assurance that “you can keep your lifejacket” is only half the crime. Obama knew the lifejackets wouldn’t work. In 2010 he admitted that 8 to 9 million people in the individual market might “have to change their coverage” because of the law. And that’s just the individual market. Millions more will eventually lose the insurance they like because of Obamacare, according to the administration’s own internal estimates.

The cancellations aren’t a bug, they’re a feature, and the president lied about it over and over again.
And anyone who was paying attention has known it for three years.[/quote]

"How could this be going so spectacularly wrong?" goes the hand-wringing lament. How could it not? Seriously! You think a bunch of people can sit down and... Lux Fiat! ...re-write the rules for how 15% of the economy works in one fell swoop, in what amounts to a giant bong-fueled bull session, and have nothing go wrong?

And once again, I am left in utter amaze how you can label yourself anything but a liberal based on everything I've read here- unless you live and work somewhere where "conservative" is applied to everything to the dexter of Trotsky's right testicle.

------------------------------

*"Law of the Land" doesn't apply to His Majesty
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby Jnyusa » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:42 pm

GH wrote:It's the people who oppose the ACA for ideological reasons and are being whipped up into a frenzy of outrage by their leaders, who are the ones who will ultimately suffer.


A desirable behaviorist outcome.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby solicitr » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:01 pm

Ah, yes- the new disaster spin. Try to cover up the sticker shock when people realize "affordable" means "2 to 3 times more expensive", and try the sour grapes gambit by pretending that the previous perfectly good (and cheaper) policies were garbage (and invoking the very, very small proportion of income-replacement scams.)

It's the people who oppose the ACA for ideological reasons and are being whipped up into a frenzy of outrage by their leaders, who are the ones who will ultimately suffer.


No, It's the people who cluelessly support the ACA for ideological reasons and are being whipped up into a frenzy of defensive excuse-making by their leaders, who are the ones who will ultimately suffer. (Except of course all of those who work for protected crony outfits, secure in their exemptions)

Although I suppose your statement could be read as "true" if it was meant as a veiled threat: that Obamacare will have the not-unintended effect of screwing over a lot of people who don't like it. Obama admin SOP.......
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby solicitr » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:19 pm

Even the New York Times has permitted a dissenting voice- a True Believer who got what she wanted- good and hard- and after being mugged by the reality of Obamacare was (predictably) mugged again by the other True Believers for heresy.

Daring to Complain About Obamacare
THE Anthem Blue Cross representative who answered my call told me that there was a silver lining in the cancellation of my individual P.P.O. policy and the $5,400 annual increase that I would have to pay for the Affordable Care Act-compliant option: now if I have Stage 4 cancer or need a sex-change operation, I’d be covered regardless of pre-existing conditions. Never mind that the new provider network would eliminate coverage for my and my son’s long-term doctors and hospitals.
[...]
“Obamacare or Kafkacare?” I posted on Facebook as soon as I hung up with Anthem. I vented about the call and wrote that the president should be protecting the middle class, not making our lives substantially harder. For extra sympathy, I may have thrown in the fact that I’m a single mom. (O.K., I did.) Then I sat back and waited for the love to pour in. Or at least the “like.” Lots of likes. After all, I have 1,037 Facebook friends. Surely, they’d commiserate.

Except that they didn’t.

Instead, aside from my friend David, who attempted to cheer me up with, “My dad, who never turns down a bargain, would take the sex change just because it’s free,” my respondents implied — in posts that, to my annoyance, kept getting more “likes” — that it was beyond uncool to be whining about myself when the less fortunate would finally have insurance.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/11/opini ... html?_r=1&

A program too far? As Rich Lowry observed, "Usually, the costs of a new program or regulation are too diffuse or distant to matter much politically in comparison to the promise of a direct benefit. This time, the costs aren’t hidden. They are immediate and concrete in the canceled policies and the higher premiums, and they are making the politics of Obamacare toxic."
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby GlassHouse » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:40 am

Wow, she has over 1000 facebook friends and very few if any appear to have any sympathy for her plight? Maybe that says more about the nature of social media than it does about Obamacare? But isn't 1000 people considered to be a fairly good sample for most polls? Maybe the reason she didn't get a lot sympathy from her random group of friends was that the vast majority of them just didn't agree with her.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby GlassHouse » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:50 am

Lots of interesting comments under that NYT article - but none that I saw that could be called abusive, at least not as far as I read - nor did Ms Gottlieb include any comments she supposedly received on facebook that seemed unreasonable, abusive or threatening, just unsympathetic.
I wonder if Ms Gottlieb received a lot of comments like these from the NYT article, from people who have seen the ugly side of the private, individual health insurance market before the ACA? I also wonder if she expressed any interest in her "friends" circumstances?

My wife and I are self-employed, in our late 40's and have had an individual policy for 4 years with Regence Blue Shield WA. During that time our premium increased over 90%, partly because we moved from the 40-45 to the 45-50 age bracket. We received a letter in Sep that our policy would be canceled. None of the policies offered on the WA State insurance exchange included our current doctors or the hospital where they have admitting privileges, so we elected to continue purchasing insurance outside of the exchange through a new Regence plan. Our new policy expands coverage, will include dental and vision benefits and includes our doctors and hospital in their network. In 2014, we will pay about $100 per month LESS than our 2013 premium.

While I sympathize with Ms. Gottlieb's individual circumstance, I have seen only stories such as her's featured in articles and op-ed pieces and never stories like mine. Premiums on individual policies have been going up drastically before the ACA, so it is difficult to know if the increases in Ms. Gottlieb's policy are due to "Obamacare" or simply increased premium, especially if she moved from one age bracket to another. Also left unmentioned is whether she shopped the CA exchanges for a different policy that doesn't cost as much and includes her doctors. Finally, the $5,400 increase suggests she was paying a very low premium for limited benefits.

Commenters have raised interesting questions. Will she and the NY Times print a follow-up?



How many that commented on your post have watched friends and/or family members get wiped out financially and maybe even lose their fight with illness because they weren't able to get or afford insurance? Personally, after watching my mother lose her health, her business, her marriage, and eventually her life after years of hardwork because of a health problem she was born with and fell into a preexisting condition, I'm probably predisposed to disagree with you, but I have changed my mind before.

I helped pay as many of my mothers bills as I could, and we travelled abroad to see doctors and buy medicine. The costs, time, and worry that we both felt were tremendous. I understand full well what a large hardship medical costs can be. With that in mind, hopefully we can use the ACA as a stepping stone towards a better system and law that protects small business, the uninsured, and everyone else instead of only looking at what experiences and burdens we ourselves are facing.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby portia » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:57 am

I suppose I sympathize with people who were confident, lucky or healthy enough to afford no health insurance or health insurance that doesn't cover what the ACT covers and may cost very little in premiums. But I also know that these people were always just a careless driver away from disaster, cancelled policies or enormous premiums, concurrent with unemployment.(Also, I know of at least three people who did something incredibly stupid around a train and ran up big bills. None of them could possibly have paid them, and I am sure that the settlement two of them got was nowhere near the amount of the bills).

Most of these people who were lucky for a while were unable to actually pay the costs if they suddenly became unlucky (I have two friends that I know of this category). So who got to pay them? The rest of us did, or the hospitals built them into their costs for other patients. That was a major reason I supported the Act, in that I do not approve of people saving their own money by paying nothing or a lot less, hoping that their luck would continue, but casting the costs on everyone else if their luck ran out.

Mr. Portia and I chose to pay the costs for a reasonable health policy through his employer--money that would have gone into our pockets if we had made some other decision. So, I feel somewhat justified in criticizing people who, having a choice, made the decision to spend that money on themselves.
Look ahead, say about 5 years, and we will see how many of those same people are thanking Someone for the Act as it covered some totally unexpected cost for them and saved their "domestic economy."
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby Cenedril_Gildinaur » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:03 pm

First of all, this was never about healthcare, it was allegedly about healthcare coverage.

But isn't it time to admit that it is really nothing more than corporate welfare for the insurance companies?
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby solicitr » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:26 am

What a difference a month makes

"I will let the Government shut down before I will agree with the Republicans and delay this for a year"
--B H Obama, 10/17/2013

"I think the best course of action would be to delay this for a year"
--B H Obama, 11/14/2013
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby solicitr » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:18 am

This just gets funnier all the time.

After the President announced his “fix” to the “If You Like Your Plan” problem, William White, the DC insurance commissioner, echoed concerns that many people expressed, asking if this sort of change might not undermine the entire premise of the system and lead to even more people paying higher premiums or losing their plans. This was clearly an important question, so the Mayor of the District of Columbia called him into the office to discuss the policy and determine the best way forward.

Naw… I’m just kidding. They fired him on the spot.


http://hotair.com/archives/2013/11/17/d ... acare-fix/

The Revolution eats its own. After all, the tolerance-n-diversity crowd won't tolerate diversity of opinion.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby portia » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:52 am

Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:But isn't it time to admit that it is really nothing more than corporate welfare for the insurance companies?


Gee. if it were corporate welfare, I would expect they would not be complaining so much.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby portia » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:54 am

solicitr wrote:What a difference a month makes

"I will let the Government shut down before I will agree with the Republicans and delay this for a year"
--B H Obama, 10/17/2013

"I think the best course of action would be to delay this for a year"
--B H Obama, 11/14/2013


As usual, no attribution. Context is important, unless you want to misconstrue, again.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby ILvEowyn » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:56 pm

This just gets funnier all the time.


I'm glad you're amusing yourself anyway.

First of all, this was never about healthcare, it was allegedly about healthcare coverage.


CG, i'm sorry because i'm sure you've said this before, but please humor me and repeat it: what would you propose to fix health care, as opposed to health care coverage?

Ah, yes- the new disaster spin.


It seems that everything that doesn't compute with your preconceived narrative of the ACA is 'spin'.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby solicitr » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:19 pm

Ah, yes- the new disaster spin.


It seems that everything that doesn't compute with your preconceived narrative of the ACA is 'spin'.


Anything that tries to contend that it's any more successful than Les Nessman's Turkey Drop *is* spin- or delusional.

At this point what we're getting is equivalent to "Well, at least some of the passengers did eventually get to New York"
Last edited by solicitr on Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby Minardil » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:39 pm

solicitr wrote:What a difference a month makes

"I will let the Government shut down before I will agree with the Republicans and delay this for a year"
--B H Obama, 10/17/2013

"I think the best course of action would be to delay this for a year"
--B H Obama, 11/14/2013


This is a very popular meme on Facebook these days, but I don't see the sources for either original "quote" from Mr. Obama, and searching on them leads only to far right wing message boards (you know, the ones that always insist in using Mr. Obama's middle name to accentuate how Black and Muslim and un-American he is). I would be interested in seeing the original quotes, partially to see if they are in fact genuine, but also to get the full context. For instance, I believe the delay Mr. Obama would have been referring to in the first quote would be the Individual Mandate, where as the delay in the second quote would relate to the minimum standards. So, he's talking about two different things here, assuming these are his words at all.

And really, plagiarizing a FACEBOOK MEME? You have to provide attribution for this stuff.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby solicitr » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:47 pm

I'm not going to spend fifteen minutes just to make you happy, Minardil, especially since you cannot deny that both statements are an accurate reflection of Obama's positions at those times.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby Minardil » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:12 pm

solicitr wrote:I'm not going to spend fifteen minutes just to make you happy, Minardil, especially since you cannot deny that both statements are an accurate reflection of Obama's positions at those times.


In other words, you won't (or can't) verify that the pithy comment you plagiarized from a meme you saw on Facebook actually quotes the President accurately?


And I don't expect you do anything to "make me happy", but I would think you might want to do things to ensure that you have some credibility here on the boards. Randomly posting plagiarized memes from Facebook and then petulantly refusing to back them up. . . well. . . it isn't good form.
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby GlassHouse » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:23 pm

Im just gonna post an article on the example set by states where ACA is working out pretty well, as the 'debate' seems especially silly lately.
How we got Obamacare to work

Jay Inslee, a Democrat, is governor of Washington. Steve Beshear, a Democrat, is governor of Kentucky. Dannel P. Malloy, a Democrat, is governor of Connecticut.

In our states — Washington, Kentucky and Connecticut — the Affordable Care Act, or “Obamacare,” is working. Tens of thousands of our residents have enrolled in affordable health-care coverage. Many of them could not get insurance before the law was enacted.

People keep asking us why our states have been successful. Here’s a hint: It’s not about our Web sites.



and this one on the myths of the Right Wing noise machine.





The myths of Obamacare's 'failure'

…Don’t buy the hype. The numbers tell an entirely different story. What they also demonstrate is that the myth of Obamacare’s “failure” is a product of the same Republican noise machine that has been working to undermine this crucial reform since Day One. It’s assisted by news reporting about canceled health policies that typically ranges from woefully misinformed to spectacularly ignorant, and even at its best is incomplete….

…You’re about to learn that the number of victims is much smaller than you’re being led to think and is swamped by the ranks of beneficiaries….
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby solicitr » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:11 pm

GlassHouse wrote:Im just gonna post an article on the example set by states where ACA is working out pretty well, as the 'debate' seems especially silly lately.
How we got Obamacare to work[Three Democrat governors, explaining why crap sndwiches are delicious]\



and this one on the myths of the Right Wing noise machine.





The myths of Obamacare's 'failure'

…Don’t buy the hype. The numbers tell an entirely different story. What they also demonstrate is that the myth of Obamacare’s “failure” is a product of the same Republican noise machine that has been working to undermine this crucial reform since Day One. It’s assisted by news reporting about canceled health policies that typically ranges from woefully misinformed to spectacularly ignorant, and even at its best is incomplete….

…You’re about to learn that the number of victims is much smaller than you’re being led to think and is swamped by the ranks of beneficiaries….


Wow. "Swamped by the ranks of beneficiaries"???? Who writes this stuff, the same guys who used to come up with Soviet tractor-production figures? The denial machine in full spin-cycle. Go ahead, Bob- "There are no American tanks in Baghdad. There are no American tanks in Baghdad."

Millions of cancellations against "tens of thousands" enrolled. Yeah, that's rousing success for the "crucial reform"

(Incidentally, the author of the LAT piece is Michael Hiltzik, the sane, sober voice who has written, inter alia, The plot against Social security : how the Bush administration is endangering our financial future )
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Re: The Affordable Care Act

Postby GlassHouse » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:45 am

There are a lot of interesting facts and figures in that article. Too bad you're unable to even consider them - but not at all surprising.
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