Splitting up California

Manwë was known for many things, but wisdom and power are two that lead the rest of his attributes. Join the Councils and discuss the more weighty matters of Tolkien Fandom.

Splitting up California

Postby portia » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:45 pm

A new Initiative referendum claims to have Qualified for the Nov. 1916 ballot (not official--the official count of the signatures is not done yet). The proposal is to split up the state into 6 pieces.
This is only the latest suggestion--usually there are a smaller number of pieces. I can't say I disapprove of the prospect of 10 more Senators from the current area of CA, but I will be VERY surprised if the Congress goes for it.
But maybe it will put an end to Jerry Brown's high speed rail project.
User avatar
portia
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 10841
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Lost in the forest
Top

Re: Splitting up California

Postby portia » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:59 am

The initiative failed to get enough signatures to be put on the ballot. But the people who want to split CA up and call the new state "Jefferson" are still at it. I have the same question: how likely is it in the current climate that even an overwhelming vote to split CA up will pass the Congress? Unlikely, it seems to me.
User avatar
portia
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 10841
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Lost in the forest
Top

Re: Splitting up California

Postby Jnyusa » Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:53 pm

The state that really needs to be split in half is Pennsylvania. We need a partition line running north to south along the Kittatinny Ridge. But ... no chance of it ever happening that I can see.

Can't see CA going into six pieces either, though an argument can probably made that everything south of San Luis Obispo could be leased back to Mexico at a small gain to both countries. ;)
User avatar
Jnyusa
Mariner

 
Posts: 5927
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:24 pm
Top

Re: Splitting up California

Postby Frelga » Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:06 pm

No way. We can't give up Disneyland! ;)
Image
"You start running they'll never let you stop. You stand up, push back... Can't say no forever right?"
―Steve Rogers, Captain America: The First Avenger
User avatar
Frelga
GNU Terry Pratchett

 
Posts: 9221
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:05 pm
Top

Re: Splitting up California

Postby portia » Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:29 pm

OR LEGOLAND! To say nothing about where live.
This idea is to split the state into two pieces, a bit above Sacramento.
User avatar
portia
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 10841
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Lost in the forest
Top

Re: Splitting up California

Postby Minardil » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:18 am

The were talking about that back when I lived in LA, 25 years ago. I assume this is a perennial issue that never really goes anywhere? And I would agreed with Portia, I can't see Congress admitting a new state which might likely be sending two additional Democratic Senators to congress, though I suppose the Northern portion of the state might be more Conservative?

Jnyusa, I live in Boiling Springs, just outside of Carlisle a bit west of Harrisburg, and I work in Reading. I've never heard of any rumblings here to split our state. Were you being serious or making a joke?
User avatar
Minardil
Mariner


 
Posts: 9943
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2001 8:06 am
Top

Re: Splitting up California

Postby portia » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:24 pm

It is a repeat issue. The northern Counties would like their own state, but they forget that the money. votes, etc. are in the South.
They usually claim that they get less from Sacramento than their taxes. I rather doubt that, but I do not have figures.
User avatar
portia
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 10841
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Lost in the forest
Top

Re: Splitting up California

Postby Jnyusa » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:10 pm

Minardil wrote:Jnyusa, I live in Boiling Springs, just outside of Carlisle a bit west of Harrisburg, and I work in Reading. I've never heard of any rumblings here to split our state. Were you being serious or making a joke?


I was serious about it's needing to be done but I've never heard anyone propose it. The economies of east and west PA are really different. All the resources east of the Kittatinny Ridge get sucked toward Philadelphia and all the resources west of the ridge get sucked toward Pittsburgh ... (more comprehensively, they get sucked toward Detroit). The state capital is in no-man's-land because the Susquehanna River is neither a boundary nor a route; it's had no strategic significance since the War of 1812. PA would benefit from being two states with representatives free to serve exclusively regional interests, and two different tax bases. My opinion is that the K ridge is the natural dividing point because it defines the Chesapeake watershed and generally speaking the transmigration and tourism from Philadelphia stay east of Blue Mountain.

That being said, I have some eccentric ideas about how economies work best to serve the people who live in them. For example, I do believe it was to the detriment of the southern states that they were forced to remain in the union. Not because they could have continued their plantation agriculture otherwise, which would have fallen of its own weight within a couple decades of the Civil War anyway, but because of the perils of an undifferentiated currency and banking system. (Among other less important things). I'm a big fan of regional sovereignty, or at least regional autonomy so that tax moneys don't get sucked toward some distant metropole, and the representative government has a clue what the region truly experiences. Particularly when the geographical divides correspond to cultural divides that are thousands of years old, as the Mason-Dixon line does. Some of these divisions are pretty hard to explain (like that little mountain range that divides Haiti from the Dominican Republic) but they seem to be inexorable. They keep coming back to haunt us.

CA could probably benefit from being two states, though I'm a little surprised that the break is envisioned north of Sacramento. I was joking when I said San Luis Obispo, and I can see the logic of the southern counties hanging on to Santa Barbara, but Sacramento really belongs to the north, doesn't it?

p.s. I love the Carlisle area, and the area around York. I would move farther west if I could, but for now I'm tied to that commute into Philly.
User avatar
Jnyusa
Mariner

 
Posts: 5927
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:24 pm
Top

Re: Splitting up California

Postby Minardil » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:56 am

Carlisle is okay, it brought me back from LA haha. I've got a good friend who lives over in Skippack, just north of Norristown. I don't know if you know it, but the little town is so cute I just want to pinch it's cheeks whenever I visit. She used to commute into the city - she was a VP at the old Philadelphia Stock Exchange, then worked for NASDAQ, and FINRA and a large investment bank downtown, now she works at another investment bank in Oaks. But still, I'm over there quite a bit. I like Philly and the surrounding areas.
User avatar
Minardil
Mariner


 
Posts: 9943
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2001 8:06 am
Top

Re: Splitting up California

Postby Jnyusa » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:10 pm

Ha! Skippack-- I know it well! My oldest daughter lives in Schwenksville. You wouldn't want to pinch the cheeks of Schwenksville, though, I don't think. Main street is the whole show, and it's pretty run down these days. Though I took my grandkids for lunch and ice cream at the cutest little ice cream shop over winter break. Skippack is where we go on July 4th every year to watch the fireworks.

I'm amazed that your friend toughed out that commute. Wow. But when I get off the center city train and head for the bus ramps out to my exurb, I see a lot of people from my train heading for the Norristown high speed line. So they make it work for them, I guess.
User avatar
Jnyusa
Mariner

 
Posts: 5927
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:24 pm
Top

Re: Splitting up California

Postby Minardil » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:41 am

My friend lives above a gourmet cheese shop in an old converted carriage house right on the main drag in the center of the village. She's heavily involved with the Playcrafters group that does theater in the old barn down the block from her place. I love that little town. My own little town of Boiling Springs has a lot of the same charm - great old houses in a quaint setting right on a lake - but no commercialization at all. nonsense needs some of the sort of cool shops etc that that the 'Pack has brought in.
User avatar
Minardil
Mariner


 
Posts: 9943
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2001 8:06 am
Top

Re: Splitting up California

Postby GlassHouse » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:08 am

I can not help myself. hey, I've been up all night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPN3KTtrnZM
User avatar
GlassHouse
Mariner


 
Posts: 7479
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2001 6:51 pm
Location: NH
Top

Re: Splitting up California

Postby Jnyusa » Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:10 pm

:D

Yes, it was (and is) exactly like that, GH.
User avatar
Jnyusa
Mariner

 
Posts: 5927
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:24 pm
Top

Re: Splitting up California

Postby portia » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:30 am

There was a program in the series "How the States got their shapes" about CA, NY, Maine and Fl. and their differing sections.
It is interesting how we all stayed part of the same USA, even with these differences. I think improvements in transportation helped that, and language
User avatar
portia
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 10841
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Lost in the forest
Top


Return to Philosophy: Councils of Manwë

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest