Ebola and more or less related issues.

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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby Frelga » Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:07 pm

Is it possible that a 21 day quarantine is necessary, as testing negative on day 2 or 3 will not mean that the disease cannot develop on day 18?


21 day monitoring sounds sensible. Whether it's self-monitoring or mandatory check by public health workers is probably a case-by-case thing. But a 21 quarantine does not appear warranted. Remember that three people stayed with Mr. Duncan in the same apartment for three days after he became symptomatic, and they are fine. No one got sick who flew on the same plane as the symptomatic Nigerian index patient, who was so sick he collapsed on arrival.

As long as the patient is isolated as soon as fever starts creeping up, all the evidence suggests that there is no danger.

Granted, I'm not the one with a quarantined neighbor...

Judge rejects strict limits on U.S. nurse who treated Ebola patients

In Friday's order, LaVerdiere said, "the court is fully aware of the misconceptions, misinformation, bad science and bad information being spread from shore to shore in our country with respect to Ebola.

"The court is fully aware that people are acting out of fear and that this fear is not entirely rational. However, whether that fear is rational or not, it is present and it is real," the judge added, saying Hickox should follow three restrictions even though she is "not infectious."

After a hearing held by telephone, LaVerdiere decided that Hickox must continue direct monitoring of her health, coordinate travel plans with health officials and report any symptoms.
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby Jnyusa » Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:27 pm

There's some irony in the fact that it's the antisocial conservatives who want the liberty-loving nurse to have a social conscience.

Gotta say that if I were the one who'd gone to West Africa and spent my time treating ebola patients, I would not not make an issue of a 21 day quarantine or even daily testing for the virus. Maybe because I do actually care what happens to my neighbors as well as myself.
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby portia » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:20 am

I think I would take it as a well-earned vacation and sit around "eating bon-bons".
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby Minardil » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:33 am

Jnyusa wrote:There's some irony in the fact that it's the antisocial conservatives who want the liberty-loving nurse to have a social conscience.

Gotta say that if I were the one who'd gone to West Africa and spent my time treating ebola patients, I would not not make an issue of a 21 day quarantine or even daily testing for the virus. Maybe because I do actually care what happens to my neighbors as well as myself.


I don't think they are genuinely concerned about protecting anyone's health - if they were, they'd be interesting in following the recommendations of health care professionals. They are obviously more interested in sensationalizing the issue for short term political gains. Make people afraid of it, tell them who's to blame for it. That's the standard MO.

For instance, here's THIS guy from the GOP who has suggested that anybody who gets Ebola should be summarily EXECUTED, because, hey "it's just math".
[url]
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/form ... just-math/[/url]


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/todd-kincannon/

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2014/10/07/former_gop_official_suggests_executing_ebola_victims.html
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby Griffon64 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:38 pm

Looks like the area of the GOP he was briefly associated with washed their hands of him a while ago, so I wouldn't say he's a "guy from the GOP". Not hard to see why they kicked his brand of crazy away.
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby Jnyusa » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:10 am

Yeah, he was too goofy even for them.

But I want to ask the question a different way, which is: Why are all (or most) of these people with bizarrely inappropriate world views drawn to the Republican party? Why do they envision that party as being likely to accept them?

Because it didn't used to be that way. Those of us who can remember life before Reagan ... the wackos tended to gravitate in the other direction then, deeming the Democrats likely to accept anything, buy anything, embrace a diversity so broad you barely had to be a member of the species to qualify. But in between 1973 and today, some social compass started pointing to a different magnetic north. Now it's the chilled-out Occupy Movement that sits around in the grass and says, "Hey man, let's start a bank, you know?" While the foaming-mouthed heartland grips its gun and says, "Let's just kill everyone."

I intuit that 1973 was the breaking point (only because it is a statistically significant breaking point for all economic indicators going wugga-wugga), but I don't really understand the social significance.
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby Griffon64 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:02 pm

My not entirely serious shot in the dark would be along the lines of "Because Republicans are more likely to endorse personal liberty as The Most Important Thing, and unfortunately this includes touting it at the cost of things such as fact, rational thought, personal responsibility, acceptance of the reality of societal fabric, etc etc."

It is just a different flavor of "accepting anything": one built on personal freedom, which is suitably star-spangled and eagle-sprinkled, as opposed to built on something as cringe-worthy and un-'Merican as "diversity".

I would be delighted if the Republican party can apply some level-headed governance, but I do not hold my breath precisely because the party seems to be the nut magnet du jour, and the supposedly sane core is not doing enough to kick the nuts out.

One more thing: it was pointed out to me recently that there wasn't as many "the heck?" moments around Republican candidates' quotes as there's been in the past. Maybe I tuned out of the general stupid that is mid-term elections too much, but I have to say, I went "Huh. I guess so."
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby Minardil » Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:09 pm

It is just a different flavor of "accepting anything": one built on personal freedom


A party which so stridently opposes Marriage Equality and personal choices with regard to reproductive activities can hardly be said to be "accepting of anything" in the interest of permitting personal freedom. They are for personal freedom as long as you're straight and Christian. If you're not, they'll use the full force of the State to impose their views on you. I think of it as a sort of "Morals" Socialism.
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby Griffon64 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:18 am

Indeed, that's covered under ( non ) "acceptance of the reality of societal fabric". This is where that particular subset of the party's alleged "small government" and "no-one tells me what to do" platform falls flat on its face though they would never admit it. Same as the evil "other" party, they're up for telling people what to do and having the government interfere in people's lives as long as it suits their purposes.

And yes, the Good Lord help you if you're not straight, white and male. Like the Greeks of old who only had democracy for all Greek men of means, there are too many Republican politicians ( just one guy talking about "ways to shut that whole thing down" is already one too many, sorry ) who only want personal freedom for straight ( white ) men. Does it even occur to some of them that their preferred policies for contraceptives, choice and even equal pay for equal work stomps on the rights of others and tells others what to do? I bet for some it truly doesn't - the concept that it is a male right to hold dominion over women is so baked into the worldview that they classify "personal freedom" as something that applies to a man, and a woman doesn't get to have a say in what the man decides for her because morals.

Morals socialism. Hee hee.
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby Faramond » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:15 pm

The craziest folk tend to gravitate to the libertarian party. Come on, everyone knows that. It's just that when they get an itch for real power beyond bossing around their local Objectivist Book club or putting out 10 copies of a racist newsletter they have to slum it in the Republican party. But they're always found out and kicked out. Always!*

My question is this -- Why is it that all the delusional smug narcissists with hero complexes are drawn to the Democratic Party?


*--excepting those from Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Alaska, Kentucky, South Carolina, Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Montana, Wyoming, Georgia, Alaska again, Texas two more times, and a bunch of other states.
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby Frelga » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:54 pm

I think those are drawn to politics in general.
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby Frelga » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:05 am

In the meantime, the last known Ebola patient in the US has been declared free of the virus. 1 death, 8 recoveries, and a 100% recovery rate for patients treated at a specialized hospital. The sample is thankfully small, though.

ETA to avoid a triple post: and the observation period on the nurse who fought isolation expired last Friday.
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby Minardil » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:07 pm

Frelga wrote:In the meantime, the last known Ebola patient in the US has been declared free of the virus. 1 death, 8 recoveries, and a 100% recovery rate for patients treated at a specialized hospital. The sample is thankfully small, though.

ETA to avoid a triple post: and the observation period on the nurse who fought isolation expired last Friday.


Well THAT's great. What will Fox News make us afraid of NOW???

May I suggest: Zombies
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby Frelga » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:28 pm

Zombies, I heard, are the expression of the liberal fears, in which brainless masses lumber around mindlessly, destroy all progress, and procreate by attacking regular humans. The expression of the conservative fears, by that theory, are vampires, elitist, powerful, sexually emancipated foreigners who procreate by attacking regular humans.

So the question is, if every Ebola patient was provided with the same level of care as the few in America did, how many would survive?
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby Minardil » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:55 am

Frelga wrote:Zombies, I heard, are the expression of the liberal fears, in which brainless masses lumber around mindlessly, destroy all progress, and procreate by attacking regular humans. The expression of the conservative fears, by that theory, are vampires, elitist, powerful, sexually emancipated foreigners who procreate by attacking regular humans.

So the question is, if every Ebola patient was provided with the same level of care as the few in America did, how many would survive?



Did you just politicize Vampires and Zombies? I doff my had to you (performs hat doffing gesture)
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby MerriadocBrandybuck » Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:11 pm

Reminds me of the SARS panic in 2002. 44 died, 248 cases in the US.

Heck, 11 times more people have died from EV-D68 this year in the US.


There are significantly large populations and pockets of the country (USA) not immunizing their children to measles, mumps, rubella and whooping cough. In Europe as well. Because we did such a great job at eradicating those things and others in the 60's, 70's and 80's, these people think they are safe. Very dumb decisions. These things have, can and will return without keeping up large numbers of immunized. Imagine an outbreak of whooping cough that kills a few dozen youngsters. It's horrible to imagine that it would take something that tragic to slap people awake again. I'm afraid it will. Humans have a great capacity to seem to have to learn the same things over and over.

Yet we're freaking out over Ebola.
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby Storyteller » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:11 am

Frelga wrote:Zombies, I heard, are the expression of the liberal fears, in which brainless masses lumber around mindlessly, destroy all progress, and procreate by attacking regular humans. The expression of the conservative fears, by that theory, are vampires, elitist, powerful, sexually emancipated foreigners who procreate by attacking regular humans.

Which would suggest that on the subconscious level on which those fears lurk, conservatives are more tolerant of opposition than liberals. Zombies, after all, are slate-wipers. Humans and zombies cannot co-exist. Vampires, on the other hand, threaten individuals or communities but not humanity as a whole.

So the question is, if every Ebola patient was provided with the same level of care as the few in America did, how many would survive?

Short of a new colonization of Africa, it'd be damn hard to provide all Ebola patients with that level of care.

For that matter, imagine for a moment that Ebola was given a lower profile due to lower degree of above-bemoaned hysteria. (Which, from what I'm picking up, came from both ends of political spectrum as it was just as useful for the Obama administration - focusing on Ebola allowed de-focusing on foreign politics where things are going from bad to worse). How often does ANY government invest $20 million into the treatment of a handful of patients?
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby Minardil » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:58 am

Which, from what I'm picking up, came from both ends of political spectrum as it was just as useful for the Obama administration - focusing on Ebola allowed de-focusing on foreign politics where things are going from bad to worse


I'd be interested in hearing some of these fear mongering Ebola announcements coming from within the Obama Administration, because what I heard them saying all along was something along the lines of "Ebola is very difficult to transmit, you don't have to worry about catching it" while the Right was screeching "that damn Muslim commie Obama is importing Ebola because he wants to destroy America".
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby portia » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:54 pm

Yeah, I agree. The screeching was coming from people who--in my opinion-- hadn't had enough recent TV time, so they took this up. Kim Kardashian published semi nude pics to get attention, some other people made a lot of noise about Ebola.
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Re: Ebola and more or less related issues.

Postby portia » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:43 am

I was glad to see that the "Ebola fighters" were found to be "Time's" people of the year.
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