Will America become a totalitarian state

Manwë was known for many things, but wisdom and power are two that lead the rest of his attributes. Join the Councils and discuss the more weighty matters of Tolkien Fandom.

Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby Billobob » Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:07 pm

Please post your opinions. Skepticism on the government is good, but keep it to policies and our government in general not political parties or politicians?
Last edited by Billobob on Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Billobob
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:50 am
Location: Greenwood the Great.
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby Jnyusa » Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:24 pm

What kind of time frame are we talking about here?
User avatar
Jnyusa
Mariner

 
Posts: 5934
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:24 pm
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby Billobob » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:36 am

The time frame is mostly in this millennium because frankly I don't really think our country will survive until then.
User avatar
Billobob
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:50 am
Location: Greenwood the Great.
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby Jnyusa » Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:32 pm

Gee ... a thousand years is a really long time where political systems are concerned.

If the question is whether we'll become totalitarian in the immediate future, I think no. But in the next 985 years pretty much anything can and will happen.
User avatar
Jnyusa
Mariner

 
Posts: 5934
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 8:24 pm
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby oldtoby » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:14 pm

I choose to believe that our robot overlords will be benevolent and kind when they take over in 2172.
User avatar
oldtoby
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 15263
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 10:40 pm
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby Minardil » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:04 pm

Don't blame me, I voted for Kang.
User avatar
Minardil
Mariner


 
Posts: 9943
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2001 8:06 am
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby Portia1 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:17 pm

Well, first you have to define a totalitarian state. . .

As a fan of "classic" Science fiction, I'd have to say it would surprise me if we don't. Heinlein and all have so many scenarios where we slide into the abyss.
That is the only reason that I do not want to live forever, as It would break my heart if we slid over while I was watching.
Portia1
Petitioner to the Council
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:24 am
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby Billobob » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:37 am

Here's a definition for totilarianism that may help:Totalitarianism is a political system in which the state holds total authority over the society and seeks to control all aspects of public and private life wherever possible. This is just a Google definition.
User avatar
Billobob
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:50 am
Location: Greenwood the Great.
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby Storyteller » Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:50 am

I have a feeling that democracy as we know it has largely run its course and will decline over the next century. The democratic powers are currently in decline, and the rising powers are almost all hybrid regimes, seeking to blend authoritarian rule with varying degrees of social and economic liberties.
"...Their aim in war with Germany is nothing more, nothing less than extermination of Hitlerism... There is absolutely no justification for this kind of war. The ideology of Hitlerism, just like any other ideological system, can be accepted or rejected, this is a matter of political views. But everyone grasps, that an ideology can not be exterminated by force, must not be finished off with a war.” - Vyacheslav Molotov, ""On the Foreign Policy of the Soviet Union", 31 October 1939
User avatar
Storyteller
Mariner
 
Posts: 7056
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2002 7:46 am
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby GlassHouse » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:02 am

I'm pretty sure the model that most US and western oligarchs are aiming for is something where there's an even bigger disparity in wealth, education and opportunity of all kinds between themselves and the rest of the population. Interesting that China seems to be headed for the same result (although they got there from the other direction) But for them, it's seen as a good thing because the final stage will probably end up being more free than they were in the past. Ruling class, little or no middle class and the rest struggling to get by on scraps seems to be the way that the powers that be want us to go. All it needs is a charismatic leader and it would be hard to distinguish from totalitarian states of the 20th century.
User avatar
GlassHouse
Mariner


 
Posts: 7479
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2001 6:51 pm
Location: NH
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby Billobob » Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:03 pm

Well put Glass house. Not sure if what your describing is a totalitarian state.
User avatar
Billobob
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:50 am
Location: Greenwood the Great.
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby Elrond Hubbard » Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:02 pm

The late President Ronald Reagan once reminded the American People that, "Freedom is a fragile thing and is never more than one generation away from extinction. It is not ours by inheritance; it must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation, for it comes only once to a people. Those who have known freedom, and then lost it, have never known it again."
User avatar
Elrond Hubbard
Citizen of Imladris
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:31 pm
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby Billobob » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:03 am

Elrond Hubbard wrote:The late President Ronald Reagan once reminded the American People that, "Freedom is a fragile thing and is never more than one generation away from extinction. It is not ours by inheritance; it must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation, for it comes only once to a people. Those who have known freedom, and then lost it, have never known it again."

I am not sure if I agree with that quote since it assumes that anyone that loses freedom will not,get it again which may often be true but it is not necesserily true. But I do agree that freedom must be fought for otherwise it will disappear. Something I've noticed is that usually the greatest threat to freedom is either complacency or fear, because if people are too complacent then there rights are taken away from them in front of their eyes without them knowing it and if they're too afraid then the government can exploit that fear to get them to agree to exchange their freedom for their safety.
User avatar
Billobob
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:50 am
Location: Greenwood the Great.
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby Elrond Hubbard » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:09 pm

Without quoting anybody this time, America hasn't needed the moniker of having "Become a Totalitarian State" to violate the rights, liberty and dignity of its own people, over the past couple hundred years. As a "model of democracy" for the Free World, this country has always done whatever it could get away with - especially to its own. The excuse has always been that America is an "experiment" in Freedom, so where it's failed, we're just supposed to chalk that up to "experience" and then alter the experiment, further. Until Snowden let the cat out of the bag, the NSA knew what complete and total freedom was all about, wallowing in its own crapulence. Now, though, there's a token leash on it, for the sake of appearances and at least that's something. But should there be a repeat of 9/11, let's say, then it will be given carte blanche by the public, as they get out from underfoot and let NSA get on with "protecting" them. What's more, when the worst of Global Warming starts to kick in, control of dwindling resources may become of paramount importance, what doors that might open to, I wouldn't care to hazard a guess. In my view, though, the worst thing about the US Government is that the only power citizens have is their vote. Problem is, anyone being voted in is just as corrupt and incompetent as those being voted out - so that the vote of We The People has lost most of its purchasing power, if you will.
User avatar
Elrond Hubbard
Citizen of Imladris
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:31 pm
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby portia » Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:27 am

We make choices every day.

Do you want the buses to run reliably?
If someone steals from you, do you want someone to care?

If the answer is yes, then you will need to have some control over the people who need to do those things. There will be a need to stop the bad guys from doing bad things to you.

On the other hand, if you prefer a "wild west" society, don't forget that there is a cost to that, too. Most obvious is that the chances of your being one of the "Big Guns" is very low.
User avatar
portia
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 10841
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Lost in the forest
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby Elrond Hubbard » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:11 pm

I already live in Philadelphia, PA ... it's like the Wild West of the East Coast.
User avatar
Elrond Hubbard
Citizen of Imladris
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:31 pm
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby portia » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:14 am

Are you a "Big Gun?" Are you likely to be one?
User avatar
portia
Ringbearer

 
Posts: 10841
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:57 pm
Location: Lost in the forest
Top

Re: Will America become a totalitarian state

Postby Billobob » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:25 pm

Elrond Hubbard wrote:Without quoting anybody this time, America hasn't needed the moniker of having "Become a Totalitarian State" to violate the rights, liberty and dignity of its own people, over the past couple hundred years. As a "model of democracy" for the Free World, this country has always done whatever it could get away with - especially to its own. The excuse has always been that America is an "experiment" in Freedom, so where it's failed, we're just supposed to chalk that up to "experience" and then alter the experiment, further. Until Snowden let the cat out of the bag, the NSA knew what complete and total freedom was all about, wallowing in its own crapulence. Now, though, there's a token leash on it, for the sake of appearances and at least that's something. But should there be a repeat of 9/11, let's say, then it will be given carte blanche by the public, as they get out from underfoot and let NSA get on with "protecting" them. What's more, when the worst of Global Warming starts to kick in, control of dwindling resources may become of paramount importance, what doors that might open to, I wouldn't care to hazard a guess. In my view, though, the worst thing about the US Government is that the only power citizens have is their vote. Problem is, anyone being voted in is just as corrupt and incompetent as those being voted out - so that the vote of We The People has lost most of its purchasing power, if you will.

Tha main cause of all tyranny is when the people with power only care about having either more power or pleasure. If a government has good and wise leaders who care about peace or at least the majority do then the common people prosper but when this does not happen it doesn't matter what system you have corruption will thrive.
User avatar
Billobob
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:50 am
Location: Greenwood the Great.
Top


Return to Philosophy: Councils of Manwë

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests