Should Gays/Lesbians be allowed to adopt children

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Postby Nira » Tue Mar 20, 2001 9:36 am

In Norway the political party “senterpartiet” have come to the conclusion that Gays/Lesbians should have the same rights adopt children as heterosexuals. Although a small party it’s an important milestone. <BR><BR><BR><BR>“Arbeiderpartiet” Norways biggest party want that Gay/Lesbians have to have strong ties with the child in question in order to be allowed adoption rights.<BR><BR><BR><BR>“Kristelig Folkeparti” (the Christian people party) off cause is strongly against, and say that “senterpartiet” put the rights of Gay/Lesbians (isn’t it a word that cover both?) before the welfare of the children.<BR><BR><BR><BR>What do you think? I have to go with “senterpartiet” my self, and that must be a first.
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Postby Nienna » Tue Mar 20, 2001 9:41 am

This is where I and my church absolutely and unequivocally part ways. I have no problem with Gay/Lesbian couples adopting children. A loving home is a loving home, and the cold, hard truth is that heterosexual couples haven't necessarily all done such a bang-up job at parenting that they should deny same-sex couples the right to be parents. We have several same-sex adoptive couples living here in Maplewood, and they are wonderful families.<BR><BR>
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Postby Aerin » Tue Mar 20, 2001 9:47 am

I think that Gay/Lesbian couples should be able to adopt babies/children. Why should they be denied children when the rest of us aren't?
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Postby Mithfânion » Tue Mar 20, 2001 9:53 am

Although I am not particularly fond of gay couples, I don't think that these couples not being hetero is any reason for them not to be able to adopt kids.<BR><BR>If they are taken good care of it's fine by me. There are plenty of children that would love to be adopted, who are we to deny them that on such flimsy grounds, ref. ~only the fact that they're not straight~.<BR><BR>Cheers <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>ps, I think that the Christian Party is making a ridiculous statement in saying that the other party puts the welfare of gays in favour of that of the children. As far as I can see, both parties (adopted children and mom and mom ) would benefit.
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Postby Luthien » Tue Mar 20, 2001 9:56 am

My only concern is about two things:<BR><BR>-The formation of male-female identity could be affected having two parents of the same gender?<BR><BR>-The ignorance and prejudice of the other people could affect the serenity of those children?<BR><BR>The first question is really open, I've no idea.<BR>The second is answered from me with a yes: I imagine their life could be more difficult, this way.<BR><BR>Anyway that's a battle that must be fought looking for a better society, for real integration and not for a mere "tolerance".<BR>
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Postby helpingfriendlybook » Tue Mar 20, 2001 9:59 am

Well, we're certainly getting into it, now, aren't we? I must say, I have no problem with gays/lesbians adopting children.
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Postby Nienna » Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:00 am

I agree with you on the first question (and second, too - you're right - true integration and acceptance is something we must strive for), Luthien, and I would hope that same-sex adoptive parents would try to include a family member of the opposite sex in their children's lives. It is important for children to have strong role models of both sexes growing up. The one couple that lives near me has their sister baby-sitting their daughters while the two "dads" are at work, so they've got a female influence in the girls' lives.
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Postby Luthien » Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:04 am

So you mean it is possible in the USA????
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Postby Nienna » Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:07 am

Yep - happens all the time, and the earth hasn't stopped turning on its axis yet! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Actually, I don't know how easy it is. It does happen, and it's becoming more common. I think many gay couples adopt either older children or foreign children, which may be easier. The guys near me have two beautiful Korean daughters. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Luthien » Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:16 am

That's great!!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR>I had no idea this was already possible somewhere...<BR>Well, yesterday only I read on a newspaper a piece on adoption in USA, saying the more money you have, the easiest it is (talking about Movie stars easily obtaining it, even if single).<BR>Here is another story. It is really difficult, a true Via Crucis.<BR>Moreover single people are still not allowed. Some years ago an italian actress, who lost her only child some years before (she had him very young and raised him alone) fought hard to obtain the right to adopt a child, but lost her battle.<BR>A very sad story. She was one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen on the big screen, but her life was really unlucky. Later on she had a very bad car accident and almost lost her life.<BR>Anyway: I think here things will be very slow: we've got Vatican...<BR>
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Postby Shelrond » Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:27 am

Of course it's OK with me. I'd make a lousy parent so I'm<BR>not going to try it.<BR>A good home is a good home. If people are bothered by this, it's their problem.<BR>And worrying about how it will affect the child would be the same as<BR>a mixed race couple having a baby worrying about what others might think. If you love eachother and the child, that's the best you can<BR>ask for.<BR>I actually have a problem with heterosexual couples having child after child. There are so many out there that need good homes, why not<BR>adopt?
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Postby Nira » Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:30 am

I’m pleasantly surprised by your information that this is possible in the US today Nienna. I have heard about Gay couple having children in Norway to, but it has been Gays taking children into a new relationships. I sincerely hope we soon will have a society that does not rate the welfare of children based on superficial demographic data.<BR><BR>GilGalad, Today there will be a debate on Norwegian TV that will ask the audience about their view. Sadly they have chosen the angle of the Christian people party.<BR> <BR>Should we put the gay’s rights before the welfare of the children?<BR><BR>What should one answer to that question? (It’s a phone poll with only two alternatives). I guess there should be an alternative that stated. Hey the question is biased and impossible to either answer or to get any meaningful information from!!!!!!!!!!<BR>
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Postby Luthien » Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:33 am

I perfectly agree, Shel, perfectly!!!<BR>It is just that being a mother I'd like to avoid a child as much trouble as I can. That wouldn't prevent me from having children with a man of another etnic group, provided I'm in love with him and I can offer them a stabile family, but I would be bothered about facing everyday other people's prejudices.<BR>
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Postby The_Grey_Pilgrim » Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:45 am

Shel,<BR><BR>You bring up something that is interesting. My wife and I have 4 children and we expect that eventually we will have more. When we just had two when people would see us when we were out and about they would smile at us pleasantly.<BR><BR>When we had three the smiles subsided a bit. Now that we have for the looks we get are those that say, "What are you crazy?" Some people have even have been so rude as to say that we should stop having children with all of those that need to be adopted (my wife is a gentle lady but I had to restrain her from knocking that person on their @$$).<BR><BR>We may be crazy for having a big family, but that is OUR decision and nobody else's. For those people who are that concerned about all of the chilren that need to be adopted go and adopt one. Shel, I have no doubt in my mind that you would be a tremendous father and saying, "I would make a lousy parent" does not lessen the responsibility that we all have for the children. <BR><BR>My wife and I have talked about it and fully expect that when we are older and we can't have children anymore then we may very well adopt regardless of age or race.<BR><BR>Anyway, didn't mean to get so preachy, but I guess that a chord was struck.
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Postby Luthien » Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:51 am

oh oh... I didn't think Shelrond was referring to a case like yours, TGP, but to people who have children without really wanting them, just for distraction or incapacity or not caring about protection.<BR>As soon as children are wanted and loved nobody should really say anything.<BR>I was thinking about unwanted children
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Postby Shelrond » Tue Mar 20, 2001 11:35 am

Actually, I meant TGP!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>No, I should have specified that I meant people<BR>who have a lot of kids because it is what they think<BR>they should do. Or because their religeon tells them <BR>to, even though they are not loving or good parents.<BR>And if they can't afford to give children the necessities<BR>for a good, healthy life, FOR GODS' SAKE, USE BIRTH CONTROL!<BR><BR>As for TGP, your gene pool should be dipped into as much as possible!!<BR>We need more of you! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby The_Grey_Pilgrim » Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:06 pm

Oh, when you mention it that way Shel I agree with you wholeheartedly.<BR><BR>AS for dipping into my gene pool I'll have to ask my wife if she wants to go swimming later-wink,wink!<BR><BR>Anyway you are too kind and you have pretty special genes yourself partner!
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Postby Kelannar » Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:41 pm

I'm against gay adoption. I think it would be bad for the child. I'm also against so-called "gay marriage."<BR>
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Postby Nienna » Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:00 pm

I'm against Kelannar.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>JUST KIDDING - I couldn't resist - and I'm in a very weird mood today....sorry....<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> You know I adore you, Kel...<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0>
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Postby Shelrond » Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:03 pm

I feel a fight coming on so I'll just say that I disagree<BR>with Kelannar and leave it at that.
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Postby Herrick » Tue Mar 20, 2001 2:09 pm

Hmm...this is an interesting topic. I am not for it, or against it. In other words, if gay couples aren't allowed to adopt children, then I don't care. If they are, then I don't care.
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Postby ILvEowyn » Tue Mar 20, 2001 3:17 pm

I think Gay and Lesbian parents have proven themselves capable in the past
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Postby InnocentEvil » Tue Mar 20, 2001 5:59 pm

TGP.. the same thing happens to my husband and myself. Frequently, I've been accused by total strangers in public places of being a 'drain on the system' because I have so many children. I think they believe that because he and I are very young to have four children and we both LOOK younger than we are, that we're on welfare. It's hard to be polite and let thier ignorance speak for itself. We don't get, nor would we accept any form of public assistance, but responding to such people wouldn't do any good.<BR><BR>I cannot have any more children from my own body but I fully intend, just as you mentioned, TGP, to become a foster parent or adopt when my own Lil Evils are older. I have love to give and a house full of laughing children is heaven to me. <BR><BR>I'm strongly in favor of people who have love to give being parents, no matter thier color or sexual preference. One of my best friends is gay and I can say unequivocally, she'd make a great mom! As far as the question about exposure to male/female influences goes; single parents can face the same sorts of problems as same sex couples would. That's where extended family becomes important and by extended family I mean friends AND family. Aynde is my sister in my soul even if she isn't in the flesh.<BR>
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Postby peregin2k » Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:29 pm

IMHO, if they can take care of a kid better than a heterosexual why not. They won't even allow a single person to adopt a kid sometimes, man, do these people think only a husband and wife can take good care kids.
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Postby Gandalf'sMother » Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:35 pm

I'm with Nienna on that last comment.....<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>-Mother Maiar<BR>P.S. Kel, I'm also kidding. Though there's one thing I'd like for you to clarify. Do you think gay/lesbian parenting is bad for children because of the potential for steering children toward such a lifestyle, or because of ridicule from outside parties that could ensue? If your reasoning lies in the latter explanation, I'm afraid that is quite the equivalent of arguing against interracial marriages. Allowing intolerant communities to win is not a noble path, and has not been in the past. If you are concerned about a child's heightened potential for developing in a so-called "wayward" fashion then I would sharply disagree, as there is enough evidence to suggest that homosexuality is a natural phenomenon, as opposed to being socially learned.
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Postby Kelannar » Wed Mar 21, 2001 2:02 am

I am against it not because of any fear for the child's sexuality, or because of intolerant ridicule. Whatever society condemns or accepts hardly makes a thing right or wrong, so social ridicule against the child or the gay parents is not a concern in my eye. Nor are fears about the child's sexuality. I tend to believe that homosexuality is a genetic abnormality that results in a predisposition that is developed given the proper environment, like most unusual character traits. Placing a developmentally normal child into the control of a gay couple will not turn that child into a homosexual, no matter how much pressure is exerted. (this is not to say that the child may have other psychological problems, such as those that afflict people who have broken homes or other unusual environments. However, those problems are more widespread and aren't specifically related to the mere fact of homosexual parents, and instead stem from non-normal, non-stable environments. It is possible that children in homosexual homes will develop quite normally, if other important developmental factors remain constant).<BR><BR>I am against gay adoption & gay marriage because homosexuality is wrong, it is a sin, and it is a deviant lifestyle that is incompatible with proper norms of family relationships.
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Postby ereine » Wed Mar 21, 2001 5:45 am

I think I've read about a research (though I'm not totally sure, could be I'm hallucinating again) that showed that children with gay parents weren't any unhappier or picked on than children from "normal" families. <BR>"Senterpartiet" in Norway seems to something else than the Centre Party (Keskusta) in Finland. (It's very intolerant agricultural party).<BR>What about bisexuals? <BR>
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Postby Nira » Wed Mar 21, 2001 6:02 am

It's the same center party ereine, that’s why agreeing with them was a first for me <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Apparently Gays/bisexuals are allowed to adopt in Norway as long as they are single. If they are in a relationship of same sex and want to adopt together it’s at the present not allowed.<BR><BR>So you could adopt, then take an unofficial partner and that would be fine. Jup question regarding sex and sexuality brings up a lot of interesting concepts <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR>
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Postby ereine » Wed Mar 21, 2001 6:12 am

They talking about a sort of "gay-marriage" in Finland but adoption rights seem unprobable in near future.<BR>Though our president used to be the president of SETA (sexual equality, an association that tries to make the conditions better for everyone).<BR>Adoption rights to everyone who can take care of the children (there could be some kind of exam to make sure there wouldn't be any unfit parents. Though that sounds too much like nazism or something like that) <BR>
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Postby peregin2k » Wed Mar 21, 2001 6:18 am

I'm looking at this beyond the aspects of religion but as a human rights issue. My liberal mind sometimes takes over my religious upbringing in these kinds of issues. I'm not defending gays/lesbians/bisexuals here but I see them as humans like you and me.<BR><BR>Kel,<BR>If it's an "abnormality" as you clearly stated then why is it a sin? Are you saying a cleptomaniac is a robber/theif in your book when it's clearly a medical disorder.<BR>
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