the death penalty

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Postby Delucrist » Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:18 pm

That you tell now. It's like 15-year-olds talking that "I'll beat him up" and when time comes, then...
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Postby ihadababyitsaboy » Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:24 pm

-Would you humbly accept the death penalty they might sentence you?-<BR><BR>I wouldn't. I would probably still think what I did was right.
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Postby Mithfindel » Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:41 pm

Then you indeed were cracked. Most people in modern society do feel pity after killing anything, and killing people can be hard. Although you'd plan it well and so on, I'd say that still it would haunt you.
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Postby ihadababyitsaboy » Sun Dec 14, 2003 2:40 pm

I suppose we'll never know until I murder somebody...
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Postby Delucrist » Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:23 pm

How about working in advance and eliminating any possible criminals before they commit crimes, just like in "1984". This measure would be more effective than revenge, wouldn't it?<BR><BR>So.. since in theory every person can kill, then why not<BR><BR>KILL 'EM ALL!
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Postby TheGiffMan » Sun Dec 14, 2003 6:09 pm

Delucrist -<BR><BR>I thought we agreed that we disagreed? You can't keep arguing, or I'm obligated to!
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Postby Delucrist » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:23 am

We disagreed alright, it's a closed deal, but I'm just searching new victims and proposing new theories.
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Postby LordoftheF15Eagles » Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:14 am

<i>There´s a big difference how a person is killed. Isn´t lethal injection a very humane way? First you get the anesthesia and after the person is unconscious, then comes the poison or whatever they use. It´s like putting a dog to sleep. Electric chair on the other hand can be a very painfyul experiment. Some might slowly start to suffocate from the leather straps put on their face before the power is even turned on. And sometimes the first shock doesn´t even kill.<BR></i><BR><BR>Lethal injection is the most humane way, if there is one. They feel no pain. First the criminal is put to sleep then a drug is injected to relax the muscles (which will result in the lungs deflating). The least humane way is the gas chamber, every state has outlawed it. Basically the criminal just suffocates to death, very slow. <BR><BR>The third and final way is the electric chair. Only one state has it as their method of execution, Nebraska. The executioner is hired through a newspaper ad, they are paid in cash and no records of them are ever kept. The execution itself uses three or four separate shocks. There is a barral of water, and the electricty used in the execution will boil that 100 gal of water in a second. Oh, by the way, the leather straps are used because sometimes the eyes will roll out of the head. <BR>
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Postby TheRingPrincess » Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:42 am

Leathal Injection isnt one of the ways I would prefer to go... in the sercumstance that I was a criminal. There is one thing I dont like, its that those people are standing outside the room, wether they be family or not I dont think its right that people should watching them die! Its not a funeral yet and who would want to stay and watch that is it like an extra security plan to make sure that the person dies?? or that they are injected? So the whole thing is basically inhumane.
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Postby Rinon » Sat Jan 03, 2004 11:00 am

Why do people have to be killed as punishment fot their crimes? I've always thought that life in prison is more effective and humane. Spending the rest of your life brooding over what you have done, locked up all alone in a little cell is torture enough. And plus, killing is blatantly(sp?) wrong. Don't the commandments sat "You shall not kill?" Why should we stoop to their level? And once you kill people you can not take their life back. Inncent people have been executed on Death Row. <BR><BR><BR>
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Postby ihadababyitsaboy » Sat Jan 03, 2004 11:08 am

-There is one thing I dont like, its that those people are standing outside the room, wether they be family or not I dont think its right that people should watching them die!-<BR><BR>I’m not sure if public executions would necessarily be a bad thing. Then again, I don’t have much (if any) sympathy for murderers.<BR><BR>- Spending the rest of your life brooding over what you have done, locked up all alone in a little cell is torture enough.-<BR><BR>I don’t know. Lifting weights, watching tv, and writing books at tax-payers’ expense seems a little cushy for me. If life in prison mandated a tiny solitary cubicle, I would support it as a viable alternative for execution. But until they worsen the conditions for murderers in prison, I have think that Life is too easy a punishment.
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Postby TolkienLover » Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:32 pm

After reading through this thread and seeing guys like Mandos using extreme examples of horrible murders as reasons to have a death penalty, I have a question for those who advocate the death penalty:<BR><BR>Are there any circumstances where you DON'T think a murderer deserves the death penalty?
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Postby ihadababyitsaboy » Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:40 pm

I would say yes, spontaneous crimes of passion being one of them. However, anything pre-meditated deserves capital punishment.
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Postby TheRingPrincess » Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:45 pm

Perhaps what if a person is half insane or something and they dont conciencely realize that they are killing a person... they would have no idea what they were doing... kind of like someone who sleep walks what if they were a guest at your house and they broke a thousand dollar vase or something? Would you make them pay for it?
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Postby ihadababyitsaboy » Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:52 pm

-Would you make them pay for it?-<BR><BR>If they were truly insane, no, of course not. But I think that 'temporary insanity' is mostly a farce.
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Postby TheRingPrincess » Sat Jan 03, 2004 3:41 pm

I do think that somethings should be done though so the family will know that this person wont go and kill, and 100% sure that they wont escape. Some of the only options that can live up to those standards are death or a high security prison. I think we should make one for the world worst criminals like in Antartica! Like on that one movie... I dont remember what it was called... but people like Osama and stuff could go there so he would know what he did wrong and so no one could say anything about killing him. Or how it would be some other countries decision. I think people want to see him living out his life in jail. Besides leathal injection is pretty inhumane. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Oeln_ofOrodruin » Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:05 pm

In my opinion, lethal injection is often no less inhumane than the crimes of those on whom it is inflicted. I, too, feel that the level of interest in the inhumanity of its implementation is ironic. In fact, I often feel it ought to be worse. <BR><BR>Of course it's a complicated issue - it's often impossible to be certain of the infallibility or objectivity of one's own opinions..
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Postby portia » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:39 am

This is an old thread, but it seems the time to revive it for a while.

In the years since the last post, here, there has been a lot of publicity about people who were sentenced to death having been cleared. There have also been a lot of studies about eyewitness testimony being unreliable, for various reasons.

What do we think, now?

I, personally, am opposed to the death penalty, for moral, legal and practical reasons. It was one of the things Mr. Portia and I agreed to disagree on, since he handled a number of death penalty cases for the State of California. I think I could always tell when he was beginning work on one, reading the transcript of the trial. They are truly horrendous cases and the testimony seemed to change his personality for the time he was reading the transcript.

The issues seem to me to be:

1. can we be sure of the guilt of the defendant?

2. What purpose does the death penalty achieve?

3. Is the cost too high (not just in money, but also psychologically and socially)?

4. Is it good or bad for our society, or our position in the world?

5. Do the positive elements outweigh the negative?

I have comments on each of these, but I'd like to see what other people have to say
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Postby vison » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:11 am

I have always been and will remain unalterably opposed to executions. Even when the guilt is certain. My view is expressed quite perfectly by Gandalf when talking about pity, and Gollum, with Frodo. Remember, Gollum was not the cute and pitiable PJ creature: Gollum crept through open windows and took babies from their cradles.

Canada no longer hangs/gasses/electrocutes/poisons men for committing crimes.

Without having to dig very deep into my memory, I can come up instantly with 4 names: Stephen Truscott (14 when sentenced to hang), Guy Paul Morin, Donald Marshall, David Milgaard: all convicted of murder and all later proven to be innocent.

There are many more, and that's just in Canada, a little unimportant backwater with a low crime rate.
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Postby Swordsman_Of_The_Tower » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:26 am

You used to be able to be put to death for sodomy. For burglary. For assault. For being black. We've progressed. We will continue to do so. It is going to have to be done in the US state by state. But we will do it. It will take quite a while for the "Old south" to be dragged into the 21st century, but eventually it will be done. Fyne Suthe'n Hospitalitay be damned.

Execution is an emotional response, a blood-lust for vengeance. I don't care if it satisfies some people. The consequences of misapplication are WAY to high. And race and class is way to often used as an excuse as the "why" the person in question is a future danger.

Casey Anthony gets acquitted because of a (reasonable) lack of evidence.

Troy Davis get's executed with less evidence.

There is a serious problem there. And the media attention is part of it.
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Postby DeadRinger » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:07 am

This is sickening. And now Republicans are trying to nominate probably the nation's greatest serial killer, Christian Taliban leader Rick Perry, as candidate for president next year.
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Postby Swordsman_Of_The_Tower » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:35 am

DeadRinger wrote:This is sickening. And now Republicans are trying to nominate probably the nation's greatest serial killer, Christian Taliban leader Rick Perry, as candidate for president next year.


He always errs on the side of life. :roll:

Except when it's little Ahmed's life in Iraq of course. Or a black male on death row.
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Postby Lee~ » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:15 am

Around the net I keep coming across the two phrases:

"How can you be both pro-abortion and against the death penalty?"

And:

"How can you be both pro-capital punishment and pro-life?"

It's interesting to read the logic people use to find an moral consistency between the two.

I am one of those accused of being pro-abortion and against the death penalty..although I'm not exactly pro-abortion... I'm pro-chioice, and support preventative pregnancy measures (birth control and womens health care, counseling etc..) to lessen the number of non-medically necessary abortions, and I suspect most people who are "pro-abortion" would agree that they are more pro-choice. In any case. I don't think the two issues, pro-choice and the death penalty, are about the exact same topic. But I do think pro-capital punishment and pro-life are, which is a person having the right to life (as the pro-lifers see abortion). As far as I can see, a person who is both pro-life in the anti-abortion sense, and pro-capital punishment either really doesn't value the sanctity of all human life, or only values the sanctity of certain human lives.
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Postby Lord_Morningstar » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:21 pm

In fairness to Perry, I understand that Texas law gives the Governor little control over the capital sentencing process. Not that he isn't obviously pro-capital punishment, but he's hardly personally responsible for the State's high execution rate.
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Postby vison » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:14 pm

Lord_Morningstar wrote:In fairness to Perry, I understand that Texas law gives the Governor little control over the capital sentencing process. Not that he isn't obviously pro-capital punishment, but he's hardly personally responsible for the State's high execution rate.


He seems quite proud of it, actually.
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Postby DeadRinger » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:51 pm

Lord_Morningstar wrote:In fairness to Perry, I understand that Texas law gives the Governor little control over the capital sentencing process. Not that he isn't obviously pro-capital punishment, but he's hardly personally responsible for the State's high execution rate.


Well, apart from being its main cheerleader.

And vetoing a bill to ban the state-sponsored murder of the mentally retarded. And obstructing the process of investigating new expert evidence by denying reprieves and replacing members of forensic boards.

Whatever - he's just another psycho Christian Taliban Texan. But I hope he wins the nomination, because I just don't see that guy getting elected. Though if he does become president, God help us all.
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Postby ToshoftheWuffingas » Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:44 am

Who appoints the members of the Texas parole board?
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Postby DeadRinger » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:59 pm

ToshoftheWuffingas wrote:Who appoints the members of the Texas parole board?


Huh? Who said anything about a Texas parole board.
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Postby ToshoftheWuffingas » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:39 am

Sorry if I wasn't clear. The task of deciding if death row inmates warrant a delay of execution or reprieve is delegated to boards in certain states. I may have misnamed such a board. My point is that such boards are appointed and may well be chosen deliberately by politicians for their enthusiasm for the death penalty. It may well be that they were chosen by previous politicians than the current crop but that doesn't remove the overall responsibility of politicians for the fate of innocent inmates murdered in cold blood by the state.
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Postby vison » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:58 am

ToshoftheWuffingas wrote:Sorry if I wasn't clear. The task of deciding if death row inmates warrant a delay of execution or reprieve is delegated to boards in certain states. I may have misnamed such a board. My point is that such boards are appointed and may well be chosen deliberately by politicians for their enthusiasm for the death penalty. It may well be that they were chosen by previous politicians than the current crop but that doesn't remove the overall responsibility of politicians for the fate of innocent inmates murdered in cold blood by the state.


It depends, though. ( I am NOT defending the death penalty!) A governor may not have the power to remove those on any such board. It is not a given that the governor appoints them, nor is it a given that he can remove them.
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