Game of Thrones

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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Thor 'n' Oakenshield » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:18 pm

I agree on all these points - I think it's got to come down to either Jaime or Arya killing Cersei, and it would make the most sense for it to be Jaime.

Also, Brienne and Tormund deserve a happy ending!
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby ihadababyitsaboy » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:25 pm

After watching the intro, one question I had was whether the Others would raise a host of long-dead Starks from out of the crypts? That would be a great way for the Night's King to rub salt in the wound during the (presumably) upcoming battle.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Thor 'n' Oakenshield » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:28 pm

Exactly what I was thinking too! I've been watching a lot of theory videos that suggest that the Night King might be a Stark, and that something momentous could happen in the Crypts of Winterfell during the battle.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby ihadababyitsaboy » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:02 am

Okay, after at least 6 people said they were going to the crypts because that were the "safest place," is there any doubt that the dead Starks will be raised to fight for the Dead?
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Thor 'n' Oakenshield » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:29 pm

ihadababyitsaboy wrote:Okay, after at least 6 people said they were going to the crypts because that were the "safest place," is there any doubt that the dead Starks will be raised to fight for the Dead?


No doubt about it. Maybe that scene from the trailer of Arya running through the hallways looking terrified is her being chased by one of the dead Starks? The fight in the crypts is gonna be creepy and thrilling.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby ihadababyitsaboy » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:48 pm

Yes! You're right, it will be a nasty bit of business down there. I think I even caught someone yell "They are already in the castle!" during the promise for episode 3, so I'd be shocked now if it doesn't happen.

Any predictions for the end result of the battle? I assume Total Victory for Team Living is out of the question. I don't think Total Defeat is in the offing either, though it may appear that is the case by the end of the episode.

I will predict that Night's King is alive by the end of the episode, and Bran is not. I'll follow up with a later list of who I'm predicting walks away alive, and who walks away... dead.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby ihadababyitsaboy » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:48 pm

Sigh... Double post.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Thor 'n' Oakenshield » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:36 am

ihadababyitsaboy wrote:Any predictions for the end result of the battle? I assume Total Victory for Team Living is out of the question. I don't think Total Defeat is in the offing either, though it may appear that is the case by the end of the episode.

I will predict that Night's King is alive by the end of the episode, and Bran is not. I'll follow up with a later list of who I'm predicting walks away alive, and who walks away... dead.


Let's see...well, firstly, I've seen a lot of theories going around that the Night King won't even be at the battle - that, while everyone is fighting at Winterfell, he'll ride on Viserion south to King's Landing and wipe out the entire city, raising an even greater army of dead, and fulfilling Dany's vision of the Iron Throne covered in snow, and Bran's vision of a dragon passing over King's Landing. I don't know if that's what will happen, but it's a good theory regardless.

For myself, though, I think I mostly agree with your assessment: I think Arya will use her new weapon to kill Viserion, which will eliminate that threat - it will take the Night King out of the sky, and he'll come by foot to the Godswood, where he'll easily murder Theon Greyjoy. There will be some fight between the Night King and Bran - obviously not physical, but some mental struggle between these two great forces of magic. At the end of that fight, I think Bran will die. He may or may not kill the Night King in the process, but I think he needs Jon's help to do that. But yeah, I can easily envision a scenario where Bran dies and the Night King survives, horrific as that might be.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby notlistening » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:54 pm

Hmmm, I hadn't thought about Arya's new weapon to kill the ice dragon. Good observation. She'd have to get very close, I doubt she could throw it that far. And on the crypt thing. Assuming they are mostly bones and not a few of them without heads (Ned and Robb) Can you raise a wight without a head? Is that cheating? But it would explain why Arya is so scared.

We have a Deathpool going here at work, of who will die and in what episode. And who will sit on the Iron Throne at the end. At first I thought it may be Tyrion, but am now leaning towards Sansa ruling Westeros.
Star Trekking across the TVM...
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Otaku-sempai » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:52 am

notlistening wrote:Hmmm, I hadn't thought about Arya's new weapon to kill the ice dragon. Good observation. She'd have to get very close, I doubt she could throw it that far.

Unless the weapon is launched using a war machine.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Thor 'n' Oakenshield » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:25 am

Otaku-sempai wrote:
notlistening wrote:Hmmm, I hadn't thought about Arya's new weapon to kill the ice dragon. Good observation. She'd have to get very close, I doubt she could throw it that far.

Unless the weapon is launched using a war machine.


Exactly. Also, interesting that Bronn is on his way to Winterfell too, as he's the only other person (aside from the Night King) whose shot down a dragon.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby ihadababyitsaboy » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:30 pm

Thor 'n' Oakenshield wrote:

Let's see...well, firstly, I've seen a lot of theories going around that the Night King won't even be at the battle - that, while everyone is fighting at Winterfell, he'll ride on Viserion south to King's Landing and wipe out the entire city, raising an even greater army of dead, and fulfilling Dany's vision of the Iron Throne covered in snow, and Bran's vision of a dragon passing over King's Landing. I don't know if that's what will happen, but it's a good theory regardless.


Great theory! I could see a scenario where the good guys get a win or a draw in the battle at Winterfell, but the Night King does what you describe, so they wind up sandwiched between two undead armies. Theaybe falling back to retreat to the Iron Islands? After Bran gave his speech about how the Others want to erase humanity's memory, I did wonder if maybe Oldtown would be the Night King's target in lieu of King's Landing. Either would be a twist, and would allow for an outcome where a decent force of the heroes survive but are left in dire straights.

My Killed in Action list for this episode is (please forgive the spelling):

Baric Dondarrion
Brienne
Podrick
Grey Worm
Missendei
Theon (dies like a hero)
Tormund
Jorah (dies like an absolute boss)
Dolorous Ed
Davos :cry2:

Every one of the above deaths will be a huge bummer, but this seems to be the list of folks who don't have any big threads to resolve anymore (ie, the Hound can't die until the Cleganebowl, can he?). And Gray Worm and Missendei just made future plans... which is usually the kiss in media!
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Thor 'n' Oakenshield » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:02 am

Great list! I do think Jaime will die killing the Night King (assuming the Night King is at Winterfell), living up to his name. There has to be a reason Bran wants him in this battle. And I think he'll then die in Brienne's arms. So my list is:

Theon: will be murdered by the Night King while defending Bran.
Beric Dondarrion: will give his life for the Hound.
Podrick: will die heroically, maybe saving Brienne.
Grey Worm or Missandei: I don't think both will die, but definitely one of them. If the main battle is outside, then it will be Grey Worm, but if the Night King raises the dead Starks from their crypts in Winterfell, then Missandei's a goner.
Tormund: definitely dead.
Dolorous Edd: will die and be resurrected as a wight. It's been foreshadowed before.
Jorah Mormont: dead. His story is over.
Jaime: will die killing the Night King.
Bran: will die injuring or incapacitating the Night King (through magic) to the point where Jaime can finish him off.
Viserion the Wight-Dragon: will be shot out of the sky by Arya's dragonglass spear.
Davos: will die.

I think your theory about them retreating to the Iron Islands could be an interesting one - Yara is going there, and that seemed to be foreshadowing something. I hope Yara and Euron get an epic showdown before the end, and Yara's fleet totally crushes his. I can't wait for him to get killed.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Thor 'n' Oakenshield » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:30 am

So, obviously, MASSIVE SPOILERS AHEAD!


That was an incredible battle, very poorly lit. I guess the darkness was there so there would have to be less CGI, but it was very difficult to see anything at all, so I would have excused some half-baked special effects if I could have seen them at all. Other than that, this was truly a spectacle like nothing I've seen before - emotional, suspenseful, absolutely terrifying and nightmarish. The scene in the crypts - :Q
What happened in the Godswood, of course, is the big event of the night: Arya defied all expectations and killed the Night King. You know, I'm happy for her - that was an incredible moment. I was afraid GOT might go traditional and have Jon Snow face down the Night King in an epic duel to the death, but no, they kept us on our toes and they used the surprise factor perfectly. Melisandre's appearance was great.
I was correct on only a few guesses: Theon did get murdered by the Night King while defending Bran - that scene was awesome and heartbreaking. Beric gave his life for the Hound and Arya. Edd was killed, Jorah was killed. Along with Melisandre and the highly-unexpected death of Lyanna Mormont ( :cry2: ), they were the only deaths last night. I was expecting many more characters to get mowed down, so I can't tell now if I'm relieved that so many are alive, or frustrated that so many managed to survive. A little bit of both, I think.
I loved the Battle - it raises the bar for fantasy battles to come. The Amazon LOTR show will have to be something truly special if it wants to be the next GOT, because GOT is constantly outdoing itself, going one step further. I'm excited to see where the story goes from here - I think Arya's had her moment, she'll probably not do too much more in the story. Jaime's alive still, so he'll probably be the one to kill Cersei. I don't know, they've defeated the Army of the Dead - does the Golden Company really stand a chance against them? The only way I could see Cersei getting the upper hand now is if she (a) uses wildfire, and (b) somehow manipulates the already tense situation between Jon and Daenerys. Those two are clearly not getting along quite as well as they had been, and it seems that even Tyrion's loyalties to Daenerys are being tested by his affection for Sansa. Daenerys has now lost Jorah too, so she could find herself increasingly isolated - unless the victory at Winterfell increases her popularity with the northerners? We'll see.
I loved that episode, though! What a brilliant way to finish off that storyline! Not Today, Death - Not Today.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby ihadababyitsaboy » Wed May 01, 2019 5:48 pm

Yes, what a great episode! I was on the edge of my seat through it all. I must have been the only person who didn't notice it being TOO darkly lit, but if anything it only helped magnify my appreciation for what it would have been like to be out there in a snowstorm at night fighting the Army of the Dead. I was way off on deaths (mainly, I was too pessimistic!) I'm okay with that though - the remaining characters are all great! And I suspect many of them will die in the next few episodes, where their deaths might have more room to breathe.

Arya is a boss. Loved the moment when she shanked the Night King. Totally well done.

That said...

I would have preferred Jon getting the death blow against the Night King. As awesome as it was for Arya to kill him, I feel like the Night King, if he has had a true individual foe among the Living, it was Jon. Jon was the head of the Night's Watch for a time, the Night King crossed paths with and taunted Jon during the battle at Hardhome, and Jon is the one most responsible for the coalition arrayed against the Night King at Winterfell. I think it would have been more cathartic for that triumph to be Jon's, though perhaps his true triumph is yet to come? Beric was brought back to life over and over again in order to save Arya... for what specific reason was Jon brought back? Or will that always be a loose thread?

But now, where do we go from here? I guess we need to know how many of Jon and Dany's troops are alive. Looked like a lot of them were dead by battle's end! I don't have any good guesses, aside from one strong suspicion:

Bron is going to kill one of the Lannister brothers, and that deed will compel the surviving brother to murder Cersei. Either of them would satisfy the "little brother" prophecy foretelling her end, and even now I don't think Jaime or Tyrion could bring themselves to kill Cersei without a major provocation. I think having Tyrion die and Jaime murder her would on the one hand be the most satisfying, I don't know if Jaime would kill her while she carried his own child. Tyrion though might not be so reluctant if Jaime gets assassinated.

But who knows? I would not be shocked if I was totally off base!
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Thor 'n' Oakenshield » Fri May 03, 2019 7:57 am

Yes, Arya is awesome - I can understand why a lot of people wanted Jon to kill the Night King, though. And, technically speaking, it's a little peculiar that dragon fire couldn't kill the Night King, but Valyrian steel could...but leaving aside little nitpicks like that, in general the episode is awesome, and I'm truly excited to see where we go from here. Cersei and the Golden Company are going to have to really step up their game, though, if they want to be any threat to a force that's just defeated the Army of the Dead and is still armed with two dragons.
Tyrion I find interesting: there have been lots of theories that he'll betray Daenerys before the end, and there does seem to be some rekindling of romantic tension between him and Sansa, which might divide his loyalties. Bronn could kill him, as you suspect. I think there will be a civil war of some sort, now. The armies from Winterfell will come to King's Landing and besiege the city, and Cersei will probably use wildfire to blow the entire city sky-high. Daenerys and Jon, I think, will have an epic falling-out and turn against one another, possibly even during that battle. One or both of them die before the end of the story. Meanwhile, while all that is going on, Cersei will face Jaime one last time - and I think Arya will also come after Cersei too. Yara will come in with her fleet and totally wreck Euron Greyjoy, and she'll probably kill him. But in the end, I presume Cersei will be defeated - but by the end of that battle, Daenerys or Jon, or both of them, will be dead. I'm calling it now, Sansa ends up on the Iron Throne.

I think, overall, the Night King seemed pretty easy to defeat. Cersei should be much more difficult. I don't think she'll go down without taking most of our favorite characters with her.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Thor 'n' Oakenshield » Mon May 13, 2019 4:01 pm

Well, last night was...both thrilling and hugely disappointing. I don't know where that Daenerys plot twist came from, but it didn't feel natural to me at all. When I thought she would become the Mad Queen, I didn't mean someone who literally burns an entire city of innocent people to the ground. As for Cersei and Jaime, I kind of liked their death - but I do feel like a lot of things were just left unresolved with their characters. All the stuff with Jaime and Brienne, for instance: it just...went nowhere. Yara didn't get to kill Euron, so I guess we'll probably not see her again. Arya and Jon are clearly going to have to kill Daenerys now. What happens with Tyrion now? Where is Bronn? Why did we build up all the stuff about Cersei's baby - only for it to go nowhere? Varys went out way too easily, for someone who has been such a cunning and clever manipulator and strategist. On top of everything that happened during the Battle of Winterfell, it feels like Season 8 has been diminishing in quality. I just want Arya to kill Daenerys at this point and Sansa to end up on the Iron Throne, and I'm sorry it's gonna end so disappointingly.

The cinematography was beautiful, though.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby ihadababyitsaboy » Sun May 19, 2019 5:19 am

I held off posting my thoughts on the penultimate episode because it took a while for the events to settle in my mind!

I completely agree with some of your points Thor 'n' Oakenshield, specifically as they relate to Jaime. In the final analysis, his character arc appears diminished assuming that he is now dead. All that work at redemption rendered moot as he chooses to die with Cersei.

I'm more forgiving for Daenerys. The series has admittedly established her expressed desire for the greater good, but it's also shown many examples of brutality in the past, and has been talked out of other violent acts by her advisors. So the roots of the Mad Queen were established, and this season has pushed her closer and closer to that breaking point, what with the continued deaths of her closest allies, the loss of 2/3rds of her dragons (children?), and the dawning realization that the people of Westeros will not cheer her the same way they appear inclined to embrace Jon. Add to that the realization that she now has an inferior claim to the throne vice Jon's true lineage, and the makings of the Mad Queen are right there. However... I felt that the setup for the "heel turn" in Episode 5 itself was missing one last poignant moment that made it seem 100% organic. She went nuclear at the moment her victory was assured. That just makes her seem more evil than pragmatic, which does her an injustice. Maybe they'll explain her state of mind tonight, so I'll hold final judgment until then!

As for characters dying at the hands of the wrong people, that to me is standard Martin. It's disappointing but I'm used to it now. Tywin should really have been killed by a Stark to be the most cathartic, Joffrey by any one of our main heroes, Cersei by Jaime or Tyrion, Roose Bolton by a hero, etc. I think it's just a hallmark of Game of Thrones at this point.

As for Varys... how many of those messages went out by Raven?

Final Episode Predictions-

No predictions anymore. I've been terrible at them. So instead, this is what I want to happen:

Tyrion survives. Davos survives. Arya fails at killing Daenerys, forcing Jon to do the deed, running his sword through her and echoing the original Azor Ahai as he reforges Lightbringer and rules what is left of Westeros.

Since I've written it, I assume none of that will happen, Jon and Tyrion get roasted, and Daenerys reigns as a bloody tyrant.

It is known.
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby Thor 'n' Oakenshield » Sun May 19, 2019 9:16 am

ihadababyitsaboy wrote:Final Episode Predictions-

No predictions anymore. I've been terrible at them. So instead, this is what I want to happen:

Tyrion survives. Davos survives. Arya fails at killing Daenerys, forcing Jon to do the deed, running his sword through her and echoing the original Azor Ahai as he reforges Lightbringer and rules what is left of Westeros.

Since I've written it, I assume none of that will happen, Jon and Tyrion get roasted, and Daenerys reigns as a bloody tyrant.

It is known.


Yeah, I've been able to come to terms with a lot of the things that happened in "The Bells" now. I can understand a few things better, and I can appreciate a few of the things that I thought were mistakes at first. And, as for final predictions, well, I like yours - but I begin to wonder whether Arya should try to kill Daenerys or not. In the last episode, the Hound told her not to live her life based solely on vengeance, and killing Daenerys would be more vengeance. I think Arya could instead be the character who pushes Jon to do the deed himself. Their reunion in Episode 1 of this season was such a prominent point in the episode, and I begin to wonder if, in tonight's episode, we'll see another meeting between Jon and Arya, a farewell of sorts, where Arya convinces Jon to kill Daenerys. Maybe Arya will die too, but I hope not.

As for Tyrion, I hope and believe he'll survive, and he'll get a happy ending. Davos I think will survive, most of the supporting cast I think is going to make it out of this episode alive - I doubt there will be any battle now. The only supporting character I think might die here is maybe Grey Worm, since he's Dany's closest advisor at this point (she obviously doesn't trust Tyrion). Bronn I think will get his castle, finally. Drogon I imagine will either die or fly off somewhere, never to be seen again: I've seen a lot of theories that Drogon is a female, and that a big reveal at the end of the episode could be that Drogon laid eggs.

As for Jon, I think he'll kill Daenerys - but I don't know what would happen to him after that. I almost have the feeling that his Targaryen lineage has had very few consequences as of yet: he hasn't actually expressed any interest in taking the throne, and Varys' attempt to put him on the throne has failed (possibly. As you pointed out, some of his messages could have gotten out). But it would be shocking if Jon actually ended up on the Iron Throne.

Sansa is still my number one choice to rule Westeros when all this is over. Bran - I don't think he's going to do anything at all at this point. :lol:
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Re: Game of Thrones

Postby ihadababyitsaboy » Sun May 19, 2019 11:09 am

Thor 'n' Oakenshield wrote:

And, as for final predictions, well, I like yours - but I begin to wonder whether Arya should try to kill Daenerys or not. In the last episode, the Hound told her not to live her life based solely on vengeance, and killing Daenerys would be more vengeance.



I guess it depends for me on what (if any) symbolism there was with the horse she rode off on at the end of The Bells. I saw it and interpreted it as a nod to the pale horse of Death, one of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse. I took it upon first viewing as alluding to Arya's place in the world, and thus wrote her mission statement for being. Thus the attempted assassination in the finale.

But as you say, she could be done with the road she's been on, and the horse was just a horse, or meant something else entirely.

I suppose we'll know for sure in 7 hours!
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