Game of Thrones

[hamlet]

Season 4. Definately season 4. And the realization that I'm getting old and my brain's going.

Next thing you know I'll be out on my front lawn in a bathrobe shaking a cane and shouting "get off my lawn you crazy kids!"

[Hobbituk]

Ha!

Speaking of old fogeys ( ), one thing about the series that needs mentioning is how brilliant it is to see Peter Vaughan as Maester Aemon. The man is a bit of a legend in the UK, mainly for a very small role he played in the mid-1970s in the Ronnie Barker sitcom 'Porridge', as Genial Harry Grout. He was a sort of crime kingpin who ruled the prison, which was the setting for the series. He was only in about three episodes, but he left a lasting impression - it was a great performance.

He was also Denethor in the BBC Radio production of LOTR.

And now at the age of 91 (!) he's playing a very different role with perfection. I only hope that he is 'working' long enough to finish Maester Aemon's story.

One of my favourite things about the TV series is the fantastic wealth of legendary character actors tucked away in relatively minor parts.

[portia]

Since I do not get HBO, and am unlikley to get it anytime, and I am currently on a limited DVD plan, I have been thinking about reading one of the books.
If I ask which, I will probably get suggestions to read the first one, but I have absorbed enough information on this series to make me wonder if that is really the best idea.
Other than the first one, what one should I start with? If you really feel the first one is best, why?

Thank you very much.

[portia]

DP

[hamlet]

Since I do not get HBO, and am unlikley to get it anytime, and I am currently on a limited DVD plan, I have been thinking about reading one of the books.
If I ask which, I will probably get suggestions to read the first one, but I have absorbed enough information on this series to make me wonder if that is really the best idea.
Other than the first one, what one should I start with? If you really feel the first one is best, why?

Thank you very much.

Well . . . if you don't want to start with the first book, then I recommend actually grabbing up copies of the Dunk and Egg stories. Same universe, about 80-90 years prior to the main novels. A bit lighter and "happier" than the main story, but still not exactly bright and cheerful you know. They're collected in some big collections, but eventually, next year-ish I think, there are plans to publish collections of just these first three stories.

Stay away from his histories of Westeros. They're dry and, in my estimation, not quite as good, or at least a different enough genre that it's startling.



HOWEVER.

All that said, I would actually recommend that you start with the first book. Though the first season does a fair to middling job at including most of the important bits in terms of major plot (i.e., they get the big broad strokes of the story down pretty well), there's still quite a bit of important details and very good little bits missing from the show. Martin's prose, though it tends towards great length, is actually quite dense. There's lots of things in the first book that are not important until much later on in the series. In the speak of literature students, Checkov has hung a great many guns on the walls in this series, and only a few of them, yet, have gone off. A lot of those guns are not present in the series due to limited time/space and the fact that subtlety does not play well to a modern television/movie audience.

On top of that, the tone of the books is actually somewhat different than the show. No, it's not less violent or dark or anything like that, but it's not identical. One of the easiest places to see it is in the scene of Dany's "first ride" with her new husband Drogo. In the books, it is far less . . . "rapey" if you get my meaning.

[Hobbituk]

This week's episode was not one of the strongest.

There was some lovely stuff for Jaime (which was needed after *last* week, but the less said of that the better), in particular the scenes with Bronn, Brienne and Pod.

Other than that, however, it was all a bit too dark and oppressive. The final third of the episode all taking place beyond the Wall and covering some of the grimmest stuff the show has done so far. The tendency of the writers to go beyond what is necessary in terms of violence and sex just because they can, remains the one weak link of the series for me. Not that I have a problem with the sex and violence per se, it's just I don't feel it always helps the story or the drama. Too often it's just there to make you go 'Oh how awful' (see also: Oona Chaplin at the Red Wedding).

[Drogo Baggins]

Since I do not get HBO, and am unlikley to get it anytime, and I am currently on a limited DVD plan, I have been thinking about reading one of the books.
If I ask which, I will probably get suggestions to read the first one, but I have absorbed enough information on this series to make me wonder if that is really the best idea.
Other than the first one, what one should I start with? If you really feel the first one is best, why?

Thank you very much.

I don't get HBO either...but we have Dish so occasionally get free teasers and one of those weekends this past winter they had a GOT marathon. Got to see a lot of it....I was doing other stuff too so didn't get to sit and watch for 48 hours. With that said I am working my way through the books. Have read the first two and it seems that it would be hard to jump in to one of the middle ones. It really is one continuous story over all the books and earlier parts give details and backstory that help the later stories make more sense. For me it's also been interesting to see how close the show stayed to the books.

[portia]

It seems that the consensus is to start at the beginning. I can't face it. There are too many other things I'd like to read.

[Drogo Baggins]

I'm starting book 4 and it has been a continuous story. I am also now just past where the show is so from here on it's new stuff. It's a long read but he's got me hooked...I have to know how it ends.

Though if he left out the descriptions of every dress and every meal the books would be considerable shorter....

[Hobbituk]

The last episode of 'Game Of Thrones' (the battle at The Wall) was phenomenal. What they achieved on a Television budget in terms of special effects, choreography and scope was beyond anything I've ever seen before on the small screen.

From a purely technical standpoint, I would argue it could well prove to be one of the most important episodes of anything ever.

And yet still the drama and characterisation were at the fore. And it was funny.

This season has had a couple of duffers (or as close as they've ever come), but the last two episodes in particular have been out of this world.

[Drogo Baggins]

I have now read all the (published) books....and can't wait for the last two. And still stand on the opinion that you need to read all the books starting at the beginning...like LOTR it's really one story in multiple volumes.

I've seen a lot of videos and quite a few episodes but probably need to get full season DVD's and watch it for real...though it's not very "family friendly"

[rwhen]

Seriously? Didn't anyone hear the internet explode last night???

No one...NO ONE is watching season 5?? I pity the fool!

[rwhen]

*breaks major commandment by posting to self*

Jon Snow. Dead or no?

[portia]

Who shot Jon Snow?

[rwhen]

Obviously, J. R. Ewing. But it was just a dream, not to worry.

[siddharth]

*breaks major commandment by posting to self*

Jon Snow. Dead or no?

Not.
Reason: Melisandre

[hamlet]

Dead, but for how long?

Seriously, dunno. Haven't watched since . . . probably early season 3 so no clue as to what the hell happened. Can only tell you about the books.

[Aravar]

While GRR Martin did kill a putative protagonist in the first book, I don't think he is going to do it again. There appear to me to be four main characters who will survive to the last act (they may die before the end): Arya, Jon (yes he will be raised by Melisandre), Dany and Tyrion. The story seems to revolve around these. Jon is now, IMO, recognised by Melisandre as Azor Ahai and he and Dany will defeat the White Walkers.

[RoseMorninStar]

The books (so far) are a bit different than the TV show, but Jon Snow cannot be dead, imo. If he is, he will become a warg via Ghost or Melisandre will raise him or something (my bet is on him being raised). I don't think we will see him, however, for a full season. I agree that the key characters are Jon, Arya, Tyrion, and Daenerys.

Not really a spoiler, but my theory:




Jon Snow is the ultimate culmination of Ice & Fire.. as in the Song of Ice & Fire, his mother being Lyanna Stark and his father being Rhaegar Targaryan--their union being one of true love and not abduction & rape. The story is everything that ensued due to their passion for one another.

[rwhen]

The books (so far) are a bit different than the TV show, but Jon Snow cannot be dead, imo. If he is, he will become a warg via Ghost or Melisandre will raise him or something (my bet is on him being raised). I don't think we will see him, however, for a full season. I agree that the key characters are Jon, Arya, Tyrion, and Daenerys.

Not really a spoiler, but my theory:




Jon Snow is the ultimate culmination of Ice & Fire.. as in the Song of Ice & Fire, his mother being Lyanna Stark and his father being Rhaegar Targaryan--their union being one of true love and not abduction & rape. The story is everything that ensued due to their passion for one another.

AHEAD THERE BE SPOILERS...of sorts. SPOILERS, read at your own risk. Ye have been warned.

Just so. I do believe in R + L = J and have for a long time. The show just dropped spoilers (especially season 5) all over the place. Random comments about R and L and how that happened. Jon SHOULD be the "Ice" with Daenerys the "fire". But GRRM messes with our heads at just about every opportunity, hard to really predict the how JS will come back, but he will. Kit Harington has already been in Belfast for up to two weeks straight since filming started. *no, not much of the super fan in me* And he still hasn't cut that head of curls.

Regards warging into Ghost. Usually the show runners do hang guns in at least one season prior to using the firing mechanism (hello Wimsey if you are reading), there hasn't been even one hint that JS can Warg or has any desire to do so even though the Starks - from the books - seemingly all CAN warg. Also GRRM writes that the longer one stays with ones host, the more like the host the person becomes until they are basically gone. So he couldn't warg into Ghost for but a short period anyway which bring us back to Mel.

I think it is kinda cool that come season 6 we will all be Unsullied again. No one really knows for sure where the show runners are taking the show, just that they are following an outline that was drawn up by GRRM and supposedly tells the end game and basic character arcs for each main character. Other than that, all bets are off. For anyone interested in reading up to the minute information about the show and casts, filming and locations, just google Watchers on the Wall. I am JCDavis there. And, it is NOT a messageboard though they do have a forum that no one seems interested in using. All for now.

/spoilers

Thanks for everyone who posted. Hi to ya'll as well. Rose Sidddddd hamlet Aravar

If any of you are already at WotW, let me know your "name". I know there are some from TORC there...but only one has come clean so far.

[MrsSmeagol]

I think Jon will be 'dead' (or forgotten about) for the next series, but the final series - yes, Mellisandre.

[Denethor]

This season of course is notable as the one where the show goes past the books...

[Denethor]

The Door might well be the show's best episode ever.

[Eucatastrophe]

The season's been a little downer for me (better than 5).
I read in one of the reviews that one of the reasons for this might be because of the lack of subtle character moments and interactions. In place of minute characterisations like Tywin's first council meeting in season 3, Oberyn's introduction etc, the show is going for broader brushstrokes


Season 6 SPOILERS

like Dany gets there, burns the Khals, finds her dragon, gives a speech. Jon dies, then is resurrected, leaves the Watch, gathers up an army...
I'd love scenes more akin to Olenna's last hit at Cersei.
Anyway, I mean to say it's gone rather plot-centric where earlier it was character-centric.

That said, 'The Door' and 'Battle of the bunnyslippers' might well be among my top 5 episodes of the series. And I liked the reintroduction of The Hound.

EDIT: I love it how the board autocorrects "basta**s" to bunnyslippers.

[prmiller]

EDIT: I love it how the board autocorrects "basta**s" to bunnyslippers.

You should see when I try write " to do" in Japanese in the present continuous!
Shi-t-te-ima-su...and I am not one given to ... "pottymouth" language...as it was first
rendered.

One other aside, having returned from a long life in Japan, it has been
quite a cultural journey to learn new cultural references. Game of Thrones
adds a new dimension to that journey!
Looking forward to the adventure.