The Avengers

Come here and discuss your favorite Non-Tolkien movies.

Postby Telemachos » Wed May 09, 2012 2:20 pm

Hobbituk wrote:
Although I am curious about this endcredits scene which apparently we missed out on in the UK. HOBBITUK SMASH!


It used to be on YouTube but now it's been taken down. :|
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Postby basil » Wed May 09, 2012 2:28 pm

Hobbituk wrote:Honestly, if you missed the building of The Hulk as a hero, you need to have a rewatch. Check out the scene where Stark gives Banner some perspective on how to go about it, later paid off when The Hulk snatches Iron Man out of the air when he's falling to his death.


I watched that scene carefully, and I give Whedon credit for pausing the action to do that.

But not convincing for me. Spoiler: IOW, the "docility" Hulk gained at the end was, like I said above, jarring.

I dropped out of the comix scene when Marvel started up. I got into Spiderman a bit, but by that time I had decided that comix were soap operas for boys and adolescents and just outgrew it. No disrespect.

And I knew girls who were into that too, especially the x-men series.

When DC tried to get all gnarly and with it too, with the Fantastic 4 and other bits, I was long gone.

What made Avengers enjoyable for me was Loki. Unfortunately for many heroic movies, the villain turns out to be the more interesting character.

Absolutely loved the "zod" scene and I found myself agreeing all too much with his speech before the 2 separate interruptions.

ETA Expansion on that last bit. Villains by their very nature have no bounds. They are the outcasts and work either to rebuild a society where they would be more comfortable ( the mad scientist syndrome ) or destroy that which cast them out ( the vengeful anarchist syndrome ). Sometimes a combination of the 2.

The problem with Hulk is that if you make him a hero, he's locked into a cage like Loki was. Locking the villain into a cage, restoring societal order, a perfect metaphor for authoritarian heroism.

So the vengeful anarchist, Hulk beats up upon the mad scientist, Loki.

Velly interesting.





b
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Postby Telemachos » Wed May 09, 2012 2:50 pm

I thought Loki was pretty wimpy, actually -- especially given he was a god. He was more interesting/empathetic in THOR, where you could really see where he was coming here. Here, not so much, plus he basically ends up being the comedy relief.
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Postby basil » Wed May 09, 2012 2:52 pm

Not at first, where it was necessary for him to be menacing but the rest, you got it, and did you notice what they put on his mouth at the end?

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Postby Gungnir » Thu May 10, 2012 5:07 am

basil wrote:I dropped out of the comix scene when Marvel started up.


What, when Marvel comics started up in the early 60s?? Or do you mean you stopped watching movies based on comics when the Marvel films started?

basil wrote:When DC tried to get all gnarly and with it too, with the Fantastic 4 and other bits, I was long gone.


Fantastic 4 are Marvel (comics but not Marvel films, at least not part of the Marvel films shared universe). The only recent DC (AFAIK) films are the Nolan Batman films, Superman Returns (Bleh!) and Green Lantern (Bleh squared!).

Oh all right then, Watchmen probably counts as DC.
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Postby Swordsman_Of_The_Tower » Thu May 10, 2012 12:03 pm

So I'm not a real comic book guy, the only two I've read (and really enjoyed) were Watchmen and V for Vendetta. I saw Ironman because RDJ was in it, it was alright I guess, kinda seemed like a long army ad. I liked Nolan's Batman movies. Never saw Thor (I thought it was a mythology movie :D) Never saw the Hulk.........you get the picture.

Is this worth seeing for someone like me?
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Postby Gungnir » Thu May 10, 2012 12:53 pm

Swordsman_Of_The_Tower wrote:So I'm not a real comic book guy, the only two I've read (and really enjoyed) were Watchmen and V for Vendetta. I saw Ironman because RDJ was in it, it was alright I guess, kinda seemed like a long army ad. I liked Nolan's Batman movies. Never saw Thor (I thought it was a mythology movie :D) Never saw the Hulk.........you get the picture.

Is this worth seeing for someone like me?


It's worth seeing for anyone like anyone. And if you don't like it then you are wrong. End of discussion.
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Postby Hobbituk » Thu May 10, 2012 12:58 pm

^
l
l
l

Hobbituk Likes This
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Postby Telemachos » Thu May 10, 2012 2:02 pm

Swordsman_Of_The_Tower wrote:So I'm not a real comic book guy, the only two I've read (and really enjoyed) were Watchmen and V for Vendetta. I saw Ironman because RDJ was in it, it was alright I guess, kinda seemed like a long army ad. I liked Nolan's Batman movies. Never saw Thor (I thought it was a mythology movie :D) Never saw the Hulk.........you get the picture.

Is this worth seeing for someone like me?


You might enjoy parts of it but you might either be lost about the characters or just not care. The movie doesn't really take time to develop them all -- nor could it, that's what the previous movies were for.

The mood is very different than Nolan's movies -- much lighter and, er, goofier, for lack of a better word. It's also much, much less political than either WATCH-MEN or V.
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Postby dhalgren » Thu May 10, 2012 2:16 pm

A bunch of folks from my work went to see it earlier this week; none of them had seen any of the preceding single character films and they all loved it. One woman said she actively avoided comic book films as she had no interest in them at all, and she raved about it.

I was planning on seeing it last night, but I stoopidly went and saw "Dark Shadows" instead. :(
The arts put man at the center of the universe, whether he belongs there or not. Military science, on the other hand, treats man as garbage— and his children, and his cities, too. Military science is probably right about the contemptibility of man in the vastness of the universe. Still— I deny that contemptibility, and I beg you to deny it, through the creation of appreciation of art.

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Postby Swordsman_Of_The_Tower » Thu May 10, 2012 4:17 pm

Telemachos wrote:
Swordsman_Of_The_Tower wrote:So I'm not a real comic book guy, the only two I've read (and really enjoyed) were Watchmen and V for Vendetta. I saw Ironman because RDJ was in it, it was alright I guess, kinda seemed like a long army ad. I liked Nolan's Batman movies. Never saw Thor (I thought it was a mythology movie :D) Never saw the Hulk.........you get the picture.

Is this worth seeing for someone like me?


You might enjoy parts of it but you might either be lost about the characters or just not care. The movie doesn't really take time to develop them all -- nor could it, that's what the previous movies were for.

The mood is very different than Nolan's movies -- much lighter and, er, goofier, for lack of a better word. It's also much, much less political than either WATCH-MEN or V.


Thanks, I might try to see it, I'll try to see Thor first though. If nothing else HE IS easy on the eyes. :whistle: :love:
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Postby basil » Thu May 10, 2012 6:25 pm

Gungnir wrote:What, when Marvel comics started up in the early 60s?


Yup.

Kinda dates me, huh.

And anyways, DC, Marvel, it's all a blur to me after so long.

I do like Thor's movie and I liked him in Avengers, his dedication to Loki. Besides comix in the early 60s, I was big-time into mythology and headed into history and sci fi/fantasy. Burrough's stories, although I didn't stay with them too much. btw, are you posting at that "other" site you set me onto? :)

So Swordsman, I do recommend Thor the movie.

And dhalgren, DS didn't do it for you?

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Postby dhalgren » Fri May 11, 2012 1:16 am

Swordsman_Of_The_Tower wrote:
Telemachos wrote:
Swordsman_Of_The_Tower wrote:So I'm not a real comic book guy, the only two I've read (and really enjoyed) were Watchmen and V for Vendetta. I saw Ironman because RDJ was in it, it was alright I guess, kinda seemed like a long army ad. I liked Nolan's Batman movies. Never saw Thor (I thought it was a mythology movie :D) Never saw the Hulk.........you get the picture.

Is this worth seeing for someone like me?


You might enjoy parts of it but you might either be lost about the characters or just not care. The movie doesn't really take time to develop them all -- nor could it, that's what the previous movies were for.

The mood is very different than Nolan's movies -- much lighter and, er, goofier, for lack of a better word. It's also much, much less political than either WATCH-MEN or V.


Thanks, I might try to see it, I'll try to see Thor first though. If nothing else HE IS easy on the eyes. :whistle: :love:


The trouble is he's sooo good looking it's very hard to follow the plot :)
The arts put man at the center of the universe, whether he belongs there or not. Military science, on the other hand, treats man as garbage— and his children, and his cities, too. Military science is probably right about the contemptibility of man in the vastness of the universe. Still— I deny that contemptibility, and I beg you to deny it, through the creation of appreciation of art.

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Postby dhalgren » Fri May 11, 2012 1:21 am

basil wrote:
And dhalgren, DS didn't do it for you?

b


I was very disappointed in Dark Shadows basil. I'd hoped it would be something of a rejuvenation for Mr Burton, but it was disappointingly flat, poorly paced, unevenly toned and wasted the great talents of the actors. It did look good though, and the opening titles sequence was beautiful, even if it did belong to a completely different film.
The arts put man at the center of the universe, whether he belongs there or not. Military science, on the other hand, treats man as garbage— and his children, and his cities, too. Military science is probably right about the contemptibility of man in the vastness of the universe. Still— I deny that contemptibility, and I beg you to deny it, through the creation of appreciation of art.

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Postby Gungnir » Fri May 11, 2012 4:59 am

Dhalgren, I've said it before and I will no doubt say it again - Burton is a designer, not director. If you've seen one of his films you've seen them all. A one-trick pony and I got bored with the trick in the early 90s.
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Postby Gungnir » Fri May 11, 2012 5:06 am

basil wrote:
Kinda dates me, huh.

And anyways, DC, Marvel, it's all a blur to me after so long.

I do like Thor's movie and I liked him in Avengers, his dedication to Loki. Besides comix in the early 60s, I was big-time into mythology and headed into history and sci fi/fantasy. Burrough's stories, although I didn't stay with them too much. btw, are you posting at that "other" site you set me onto? :)


I have to admit, I'm not that keen on a lot of the 60s Marvel output and I'm not a big fan of most DC stuff (But I'm very partial to certain stories Batman) so I can see why you lost interest. But there are some absolutely stand-out comics collected as graphic novels.

And I do occasionally post in the FB Back to Barsoom and John Carter pages but I have to sadly say that I think they are going to lose their battle. I can't see Disney agreeing to a sequel.
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Postby oldtoby » Sat May 12, 2012 2:18 pm

I'd hoped it would be something of a rejuvenation for Mr Burton, but it was disappointingly flat, poorly paced, unevenly toned and wasted the great talents of the actors



Maybe if for once he used someone other than Johhny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter in his movies.
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Postby Hobbituk » Sun May 13, 2012 1:02 pm

Whilst The Avengers is smashing box office records (as it richly deserves), it's worth reading this very funny and oddly sweet Blogpost by Joss Whedon himself.

I have been a massive fan of Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Serenity and pretty much everything else the man has done (heck, he even made "Titan: After Earth" watchable. We won't mention Dollhouse too loudly), so it's nice to see him getting some global recognition for his talent.
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Postby notlistening » Sun May 13, 2012 10:22 pm

Really enjoyed the Avengers! Love it that they gave RDJ and Mark Ruffalo equally funny lines. And of course the Hulk got the best funny bit in the film. :D

I liked the Loki character in Thor but it was sad that he was such a puppet to the invading things. He is a demi god therefore should have more powers?

And as predicted Whedon killed off someone but not whom I expected.

We only got the 1 trailer thingy here as well. And I don't know my comics well enough to recognise the guy on the throne. Anyone care to share? (with "spoilers" of course.)
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Postby elengil » Tue May 22, 2012 1:31 pm

I am no longer a Marvel virgin.

Having never been a big comic book fan, I hadn't had much interest in seeing any of the movies in the last few years. But having a friends who watched them, and through the amazing power of the internet/youtube, I saw some clips from Thor and immediately bought the DVD (only time I've ever bought a movie without having seen it first. (this was the weekend before last.)

That got me thoroughly hooked and I watched the Avengers this last weekend, then my friends got me caught up with Iron Man, Iron Man 2 and Captain America.

I must say I was absolutely delighted with all 5 of these movies, even if I did nitpick at the Norse Mythology just a touch, I realize that they were basing these off Comic reality rather than Myth reality, so I didn't really mind.

Loki is my new favorite character ever. At the end of Avengers when everyone else in the theatre was laughing hysterically, I was clutching my chest crying "My poor baby!"

:)

Can't wait to see it again.




To jump into the conversation on Thor a bit, the movie annoyed me for one reason: the non-title character was the one that actually developed. Loki, we see every stage of his fall, every reason, every break he goes through to get where he ends up. His character development *makes sense* and is rather tragic.

Thor is basically: RAWR. Wait, you're cute, maybe I should stop being an arse and not destroy all the Jotunheim and have my entire personality and outlook changed IN A DAY AND A HALF ON EARTH.

I call shenanigans. Loki was the far more sympathetic and interesting character.
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Postby portia » Thu May 24, 2012 5:58 pm

I will go see it tonight. Comments later.

Later:

I was impressed. The comments about giving the superheroes real personalities, etc., are correct. That is a real accomplishment, and credit goes to the writers, and--of course--to the actors.

My only quibble, and this is just personal taste, is that so much of the techno stuff was the same color, and the battles were so much like train wrecks (yes, I know real battles are like that) that it was hard to keep track of who was doing what to whom. That is a flaw, but not a large one, in a movie like this. Am I imagining a reference to "Independence Day" in the way the problem was solved?

It really was a new kind of superhero movie. The comic relief was well done and didn't get in the way of the plot, for me. Spoiler:

I liked the little sigh I think I heard from LOKI after the Hulk got through with him. And I agree the Hulk had the best comic moment.


BTW: I am not and never have been a comic book person. I can't remember the last time I read one, of any kind. I didn't even read them when I was packing up my son's collection to send to him. Comic book--ness is not necessary to enjoy this movie. Of course one needs to like action and CGI--heavy movies, and I often do.
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Postby heliona » Thu May 31, 2012 6:36 pm

I loved this film. I've always been a big fan of Loki (from the Norse mythologies) so I guess I was bound to like him anyway. :D

elengil, I completely agree with your assessment of Thor - Loki was by far the most interesting character in it. Thor was just an idiot for the most part! :roll: However, I did like Thor in The Avengers and I particularly loved that scene between him and Loki on the cliff.

I stayed until the end of the credits (I'm always wont to do anyway) and there was a random scene of some red bloke on a throne which rang a bell with me but that was it. I can't remember any dialogue, though. That was all we got, is that what you are all talking about or was there something else? I really would like to see it again, to be honest. Whether or not I'll fork out a huge amount of money to see it at the cinema or just wait to spend essentially the same amount on a DVD is yet to be decided, though. :D
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Postby Gungnir » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:53 am

heliona wrote:I stayed until the end of the credits (I'm always wont to do anyway) and there was a random scene of some red bloke on a throne which rang a bell with me but that was it. I can't remember any dialogue, though. That was all we got, is that what you are all talking about or was there something else?


The big red bloke is a character called Thanos. The US and other places had an extra scene at the end showing the Avengers all at the restaurant down the street eating schwarma, whatever that is.
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Postby GoodSam » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:34 am

Shwarma

I enjoyed the Avengers better than most of the Superhero movies I've seen. I had a feeling it would have good dialog and genuinely funny one-liners when I heard that Joss Whedon was so involved with it. That guy is so good at what he does, except for the not knowing how to not get canceled by Fox bit.

I have to admit I was a bit lost with some of the characters. I never read any of the Hawkeye, Black Widow or Thor comics, and I haven't seen the movies in which they have appeared. As a result, their characters took on an "also appearing" status for me (though I can never complain about Scarlett Johansson in a form-fitting PVC suit).
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Postby portia » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:49 am

Is that what it was. I was impressed by how horribly bored they all looked.
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Postby elengil » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:52 pm

portia wrote:Is that what it was. I was impressed by how horribly bored they all looked.


I took their looks to be exhaustion, not boredom.

(but Shwarma is simply fabulous!)



heliona: Oh yes, the scene between Loki and Thor in Avengers was quite touching.
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Postby portia » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:25 am

I am receiving this from Netflix, today. I usually need to see movies like this a second time to pick up on things. Since I am not a comic book person, I am sure that there are references I will never get. Oh, well.

Later:

This movie seemed quite different on the small screen. I expected it would be less involving, and it was, but I can't articulate other differences, even though I thought there were others.

I only saw the movie once in a theater, so I can't be sure if the differences are only due to the screen size. Except one. On the DVD, Iron Man suggests that everybody go out for Shwarma afterward and mentions a nearby Shwarma place and that he doesn't know what Shwarma is. I am certain that I do not recall those lines from the theater. It is puzzling and I'd like to know other people's reactions to the DVD.

I have now watched parts of the DVD several times, and the whole thing with the commentaries. The director's comments are more coherent than that sort of thing usually is, and more informative. Multiple viewing also make the care taken to bring out the superheroes' personalities more apparent.
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Postby Gungnir » Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:53 am

portia wrote:I only saw the movie once in a theater, so I can't be sure if the differences are only due to the screen size. Except one. On the DVD, Iron Man suggests that everybody go out for Shwarma afterward and mentions a nearby Shwarma place and that he doesn't know what Shwarma is. I am certain that I do not recall those lines from the theater. It is puzzling and I'd like to know other people's reactions to the DVD.


The "shwarma" quote was definitely in the film when I saw it at the cinema but the scene at the end in the shwarma restaurant wasn't.
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Postby portia » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:01 am

I supposed I could have been paying attention to something else and missed the schwarma reference in the film. Or I didn't "get it" and therefore forgot it.

The music was not much, but I was very annoyed by the use, a couple of times, of what I think was a Howard Shore musical phrase from LOTR. Anyone else notice?
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Re: The Avengers

Postby Swordsman_Of_The_Tower » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:00 am

I finally saw it on blu-ray, I liked it, it was fun :)

Josh Whedon made it funny and well paced, I liked the cast, though Captain America was sorta blah. But I found a lot of the dialogue by the various characters enjoyable, and the action was over the top but not absurd.
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