Ender's Game

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Ender's Game

Postby GoodSam » Tue May 21, 2013 10:51 pm

I saw the Ender's Game trailer before the Star Trek movie last night. I'm looking forward to this one more than I am the next two Hobbit movies! Harrison Ford plays Commander Graff, and Ben Kingsley plays Mazer Rackham. The Battle Room scenes look fantastic! I hope they set new standards with those scenes. My son and I were watching the trailer saying, "That has to be Petra," and "There's Valentine!"

So jazzed!! :happydance:
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby hamlet » Wed May 22, 2013 5:25 am

Looking forward to it. Have to dig out my copy of the novel and read it again after at least 10-12 years.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby Gungnir » Wed May 22, 2013 1:24 pm

I recently re-read Ender's Game and it is still as good as I remember from the 1980s. I then read the 3 direct sequels which get progressively more rubbish and ridiculous.

I'm looking forward to the film though, despite the fact that Card himself is a scumbag and people are urging a boycott of the film based on this.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby GoodSam » Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:54 pm

Why is Card a scumbag? Is it because he is a Mormon?
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby basil » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:58 pm

Here's a start.

I really am okay with Card having his opinions. I can roll my eyes at his political positions, I can accept that he thinks the world be a better place if it was different than the way that I think it should be. He is welcome to have his opinions, and he’s welcome to try to convince people that his ideas are right. What I cannot quite wrap my mind around is how the mind which wrote such a beautiful meditation on empathy can be the same one that argues for the violent overthrow of the American government because of its failure to ban gay marriage and to outlaw homosexuality generally. Card describes in a fair amount of detail the advocated program of state-sponsored shaming he is in favor of. There’s a cognitive disconnect here, of how someone can advocate the minimal government of libertarianism while in the next sentence saying with a straight face that the government should regulate the sex lives of its citizens, but that’s run of the mill hypocrisy as far as political conversations go. I’m more confounded by the cognitive disconnect between the empathy required to create Ender and the callousness required to insist that you have the right to use violence to tell other people how they should live their lives.


I read his books, and Gungnir's got it right.

I haven't followed his political or societal views that much, other than the knowledge that he tended toward what is called "conservative" nowadays.

I saw the trailer too, and I'm excited about seeing the flick.

I might just pull out "Starship Troopers" to watch again. :)

b
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby portia » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:36 am

I also saw the trailer for "Ender's Game." I liked the book a lot, but read no sequels. I am looking forward to the movie.

I was sorry to read J.S. Card's opinions, but, let's face it, that is no more than routine "Conservative" hypocrisy. "The government should lay off, except on the issues that upset me." Boring. It shows up in a lot of unexpected places.

As many movies and TV shows about Superman as I have seen, you'd think I was tired of it all, but the trailer for the "Man of Steel" movie looked interesting.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby GoodSam » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:04 pm

So Orson Scott Card is a scumbag because he is anti-gay? Just gotta say :roll:
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby Gungnir » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:14 am

GoodSam wrote:So Orson Scott Card is a scumbag because he is anti-gay? Just gotta say :roll:


Well, yes.

But it's a bit more than that, isn't it?

Orson Scott Card wrote:Laws against homosexual behavior should remain on the books, not to be indiscriminately enforced against anyone who happens to be caught violating them, but to be used when necessary to send a clear message that those who flagrantly violate society's regulation of sexual behavior cannot be permitted to remain as acceptable, equal citizens within that society.


Orson Scott Card wrote:Now, there is a myth that homosexuals are "born that way," and we are pounded with this idea so thoroughly that many people think that somebody, somewhere, must have proved it.

In fact what evidence there is suggests that if there is a genetic component to homosexuality, an entire range of environmental influences are also involved. While there is no scientific research whatsoever that indicates that there is no such thing as a borderline child who could go either way.

Those who claim that there is "no danger" and that homosexuals are born, not made, are simply stating their faith.

The dark secret of homosexual society -- the one that dares not speak its name -- is how many homosexuals first entered into that world through a disturbing seduction or rape or molestation or abuse, and how many of them yearn to get out of the homosexual community and live normally.


Orson Scott Card wrote:When government is the enemy of marriage, then the people who are actually creating successful marriages have no choice but to change governments, by whatever means is made possible or necessary… Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down….
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby portia » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:29 pm

I am telling you. . . .as a person who was married for 40 and 11/12th years. . . . that a homosexual marriage is not the enemy of a "traditional marriage." The one has no effect on the other and no one has a reason to change governments because of homosexual marriage!?

IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH?
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby ElvenArcher » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:13 pm

This discussion is better suited to Manwe. If you wish to discuss Card's political view, or view of homosexuality, take it there.

Now if you want to talk about the FILM, we can keep the thread here.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby Gungnir » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:01 am

ElvenArcher wrote:This discussion is better suited to Manwe. If you wish to discuss Card's political view, or view of homosexuality, take it there.

Now if you want to talk about the FILM, we can keep the thread here.


Wow, you really killed that raging debate which hadn't had a reply for over two weeks. I'm glad you're here to keep everyone in line.


It's nice to know that the ridiculously heavy-handed moderation on TORC is not a thing of the past :roll: I wonder why this place is so quiet nowadays?
Last edited by Gungnir on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby portia » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:48 am

I am still interested to see the movie. This is one of the small, but impressive, group of books that my son has talked me into reading.
If I ruled out every book where the author has shown he is a nutcase, I'd hardly read anythng.
It doesn't open until Nov. 1, so I have time to re-read it.

Later.
I have just finished re-reading it. My memory of it was not very accurate. But, I think if the movie goes lightly over the "games"and discusses the psychological elements with some style, it can work.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby Elmtree » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:58 pm

I've only read the book recently but I loved it. I picked up Ender's Shadow and read it shortly after, and then Speaker for the Dead. I don't know why it took me so long to pick up the Ender books. I suppose it was too popular for me when it came out. I was a Hipster before it was cool. Which is, I suppose, the only way to be a hipster. :)

At any rate, I had no idea there was a movie being made. I'm psyched, but also puzzled. Is Ender still going to be a little kid when he is brought on to the battle station? Looks like they are using slightly older kids. Will the kids age on screen as they aged in the books, or will the time period be condensed so it's just a couple of years?

Harrison Ford as Graff seems absolutely perfect. That is not who I pictured, but I CAN picture him as Graff. I'm really curious as to how they will adapt this story to make it work as a film.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby IrisBrandybuck » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:38 am

I finally saw the trailer on Thursday, just before Despicable Me 2. :D

I'm excited. I've only read Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow, I've not had any interest in the other books (yet). I was startled to see Harrison Ford, but I think he'll be an excellent addition.

Elmtree: IIRC, Ender started out as a six year old, but by the time he reached the point of the "big game" he was closer to 12? Can someone help me out here?

My husband has not even heard of Ender's Game...so I'm trying to decide if he should see the movie first, or if I should make him read the book first...
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby portia » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:50 am

Your ages are about right. The kids I've seen in the publicity are older (14-15?) so, I wonder what they will say about ages. Part of what made Ender's Game work was the very young ages of the kids. Kids of that age might have seen what was coming.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby Elmtree » Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:30 pm

I just read Shadow of the Giant (I think that's the name) and I didn't realize when I picked it up it's about the third or fourth post Ender story in that world. It was still readable on it's own and really interesting as it showed what happened to the Battle school kids. But they are still kids at this point- most are under 20 and Bean is only, I think, 16.

So in the Enders Game movie the kids appear to be older?

They way they spoke in the books, even though they were little, they had very adult reasoning abilities (yet still were kids). I don't know how easily that would translate to screen and could you get enough kid actors to pull that off? Maybe they aged them a little bit thinking the audience wouldn't suspend disbelief that much. But it was something very interesting in the books-- realizing now and then as you read that these were not only kids, they were pretty young kids.

I'd imagine this book would be somewhat difficult to translate so I expect changes. The story is not difficult, but the character situations might be.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby portia » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:38 am

It will be interesting to see how the kids talk, and yet how they miss things that an older person would probably see.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby GoodSam » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:16 pm

I am interested to see if they capture any of the rivalry between Ender and Peter, and if they capture Ender's struggles with the more Peter side of his personality. Card did a great job capturing sibling dynamics with the three siblings.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby Elmtree » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:54 pm

Even though I've read the book within the past year, I"m re-reading it. It is so very very good. I do wonder if they will show a younger Ender being recruited and then move up a couple of years, and take it from there.

It appears they are having some aspect of the Peter/Valentine story, though I don't know if we'll get much of it. I'm wondering what they will cut/simplify to make this work as a film.

Re-reading it I think I'm okay with jumping the age up a little, because in the books these Battle School kids really do speak a s though they are older. That's part of the point- they are not normal kids. But for a viewer who has not read the books it might be more believable if the 'kids' start out at ten or 11 and go to mid/late teens.

-eta- I just found this interview with Card on the writing of the script and the cuts they were making. It's from '10, I think, so it's probably pretty close to the script they ended up with. Interesting cuts, and not much battle practice stuff apparently- which surprised me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpsZB34VomU
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby IrisBrandybuck » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:56 am

The battle practice stuff is fascinating for a reader, but I don't know how well it would translate into a movie...

I was pleased to see that at least one of the commanders will be a woman. :)
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby portia » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:27 pm

I hope that the battle scenes are reduced to the smallest number that will work to show Ender's originality. It will be a more interesting story if we see more of Ender's behavior, and see how he is diverted from realizing what is going on. I would also like to see more of what the adults think of Ender's fighting, as they do not seem to see what is actually happening, especially with the enemy.

But, since CG metal sells movies, I expect I am going to be disappointed.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby IrisBrandybuck » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:03 am

Oi, we've been invaded!
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ender's game

Postby eliana » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:12 pm

ok...so...i know it just came out, so i'll be patient, but someone give me an opinion on the movie, please. here's what i came away with:

    harrison ford is a good graff
    ben kingsley is a perfect rackham
    i only have one problem that i doubt anyone other than huge fans of the book will even notice, and i can forgive them for it because i'm sure it's due to time constraints
    i have one other regret, a left out part, that they really honestly did not have time for
    it was very pretty. very very pretty
    any sequels will go a completely different direction than the books, but i'm okay with that because ender's story just got flippin weird

so...basically my only complaint is that it isn't somewhere between 16 and 116 hours long.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby portia » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:42 pm

I saw it today.
Ford is a good Graff and Kingsley is a good Rackham.
There was less of the stages that Ender goes through to improve and prove his strategic skills, and he is allowed to know more of the consequences of what he does.
It is a very pretty movie.
I do not think fans of the book will have a big problem with it.
I thought the exposition was handled well, and swiftly.
Although the kids were older, I do not think that they were portrayed as old enough to understand what was happening, before they were told.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby eliana » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:49 am

see, that's what i'm saying. i agree with all that. i give it a generally good review, fairly strong for an adaptation, actually, but i can't decide if actually like it or not...
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby Elmtree » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:49 pm

What did you feel was weak? Did it fail as a film? Or was it weak as a film? I've been sick and not been able to go out to see it yet. I loved the book (and Ender's Shadow as well- not so sure about the rest of them).

I already knew they were changing the ages so they were teens, not little kids, but that is understandable. It would be difficult to get six and seven year olds to play those parts, especially as the kids in the books didn't act like six or seven year olds, but like much older kids. So I'm okay with that. I understand from the conversation upthread and the trailers/interviews that they cut quite a few of the battleroom scenes, which I suppose is understandable (though in the books those battles show the characters' progression).
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby portia » Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:21 pm

Yes, they showed enough of the battle scenes to establish that Ender was original in his thinking and willing to take risks.

Weakenesses were, in my opinion, softening the effects of Ender's self-defense. In the book, I felt that because Ender didn't know what he had actually done to Stinson and Bonzo Madrid, he was not aware of what could happen. In the movie, he is somewhat aware of stinson, and more aware of Bonzo, so his unawareness is compromised, a bit. I felt that was a weakness as I thik he should not have had any idea of what was actually happening, later. I felt they almost gave it away.

Also, If they were to give clues to what Ender was going to accomplish, the clues were not clear enough. The whole dream/game sequence were not enough of a foreshadowing. But, I do not feel that these were weaknesses, only quibbles. Overall, I think it ws a good as a movie as we could have expected.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby Elmtree » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:48 pm

First day up and around after being sick, and I dragged my self to see the movie. I had been very eager to see it. I took my 19 year old and 16 year old with me. Neither has read the book despite my encouragement to do so. 19 year old daughter liked it. Son thought it was okay. I thought-- dang, they told an abbreviated version of the story with most of the heart removed.

It's not a bad movie, it's just missing .... something. Quite a bit, actually. A shame.

I did like how the Giant's Game was used. But the emotional notes were all the same all through the film. There was no change and development in any character. Of course, they took six years and crammed it into maybe six months, and that didn't help. Could have been worse, I guess. Harrison Ford was a great Graff-- good casting throughout, but the actor direction just seemed a little off.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby portia » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:23 am

I think I see what you mean, but the books was a bit to complex to be told in regular movie length.
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Re: Ender's Game

Postby eliana » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:57 pm

elmtree,thank you! i couldn't put a finger on what was dissatisfying about the film. it was mostly good with a few very minor quibbles i couldn't really complain about, but i still couldn't say i liked it. but you said it, it was just missing the emotional depth of the book. like i said, i think they handled the condensing as well as they possibly could, but i'm starting to think it really shouldn't have been a movie. maybe it could have worked as a mini-series or something, but i just don't think they had time to get the depth and complexity across.
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