Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!!

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Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!!

Postby Walkerd1602 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:23 pm

MILD SPOILERS FOR ST:ID BELOW!!!

I saw a recent survey on IGN which had asked people to rate the Star Trek films and put them in to a list of best to worst.

I couldn't believe it when ST:ID was in last place!!!!

The Wrath of Khan was first, which was no huge surprise as it always comes top in these kind of polls, but does ID deserve to be last? I loved it!!

Now I was born in '83, so my first experience of ST was when TNG first appeared, and I was "made to watch it" because my dad was a Trekkie. I loved it though, and then continued to watch though DS9 and Voyager. I didn't however enjoy Enterprise, as I just didn't like the prequel setting.

So when they announced they were rebooting Star Trek, I was a bit apprehensive. But having then seen the film, it made me fall in love with Star Trek all over again. Ok, so it had typical JJ Abrahms moments, but it really helped introduce characters to me who I had never fully appreciated. Don't get me wrong, I've seen all of the ST films, and do agree that TWOK is my favourite.

But what surprised me even more about the reboot was this. My wife watched it, and she loved it! She would never watch a single episode of ST, and yet she loved the film. I even came home one day to find her ironing whilst watching it on her own!

And then we come to ST:ID. Again, we both loved the film, I personally enjoyed the reversal of Kirks and Spocks roles, and I thought it helped develop the characters further for this new generation of fans. It was almost as good as the previous film, but not quite in my opinion. So why is it bottom of the list? Is it really the worst ST film ever made? What about the forgettable Generations, or the pointless Insurrection?

Personally, I think it's because some fans are stuck in the past with the series. This film is at the opposite end of the list to the original film it is "based upon", purely because everyone loves TWOK so much. I think some "fans" need to appreciate the film on its own merits, and give it the credit it deserves. And if it helps keep the ST franchise alive, then keep them coming.

Just had to get that all off my chest!
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby ngaur » Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:47 pm

Personally, I think it's because some fans are stuck in the past with the series. This film is at the opposite end of the list to the original film it is "based upon"


Not so sure about that. People used to be stuck with the original series and still grew to apprieciate The Next Generation. It usually comes down to wether the new movies/series is strong enough to stand on its own. I haven't seen Into Darkness myself so I can't pass any judgement, but possibly peoples reluctance suggests the movie isn't as strong as you think. On the other hand it is not unusual to still like such movie. David Lynchs Dune is generally considered a failure, but I like it anyway,
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby Walkerd1602 » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:55 am

I suppose it's a good thing that we all have individual tastes, and I completely agree with your points too.

By "stuck in the past", what I mean is that some fans don't seem to want to appreciate this film purely because its elements are borrowed from TWOK. It's almost as if it was hated before it was even released.

I just found it laughable that when you look back on the history of ST films, there have been some real turkeys in there, and yet this one is being regarded as the worst, and the only explanation I can come up with is that it's because the theme was borrowed. If TWOK had never existed, how would people have felt about this movie?

Just my opinions of course!
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby GlassHouse » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:22 pm

I'm generally not in favor of reboots of old material in the first place. Things become popular because they have something unique to offer IMO. When you try to imitate it you almost inevitably wind up with something inferior. I think the progression of the Star Trek franchise illustrates this pretty well. But then, maybe other people have the same opinion of JJ Abrams as I have. I haven't seen Into Darkness either but based on my experience with his first ST reboot, I really didn't want to. Shaky-cam makes me nauseous.

I know that's just my opinion and your mileage my vary but i have no trouble understanding why it would be on the bottom of that list.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby hamlet » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:05 am

Into Darkness was an objectively terrible move, above and beyond being a Star Trek movie.

It wasn't the worst. That honor is reserved for 2009 Trek. But it is quite terrible.

I'd rather watch just about any other Star Trek property than either of those two movies again.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby Hobbituk » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:16 pm

The two new Star Trek films are the only Star Trek of any kind I can watch without wanting to beat myself unconscious. They're quite fun.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby portia » Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:10 pm

I am not very happy about ST:ID, but I haven't figured out why.

Things I disliked about the movie:
BC was a much inferior Kahn to RM. Depressing, all one note, and uninteresting.
The movie was disorganized and had little continuity. It seemed more like a set of scenes thrown together than a story.

Things I liked: Oddly enough, I liked the reversal of Kirk and Spocks roles in the movie.

The worst ST movie was unquestionably the first one. "Veeger" and too much reverence for the storyline.

I probably will buy ST:ID and try to figure out whether I think it was worth making.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby hamlet » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:41 am

Hobbituk wrote:The two new Star Trek films are the only Star Trek of any kind I can watch without wanting to beat myself unconscious. They're quite fun.


They're Star Trek movies for people who don't actually like Star Trek, made by a guy who doesn't like Star Trek.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby Gungnir » Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:51 am

hamlet wrote:
They're Star Trek movies for people who don't actually like Star Trek, made by a guy who doesn't like Star Trek.


I've been watching Star Trek since the very early 70s. All flavours including the animated series. I was a member of the UK official Star Trek Fan club when it first started in 1994. I've seen every film except Insurrection and Nemesis in the cinema and own them all on DVD and/or Blu-Ray. I own all the original Series on Blu-Ray. I own 4 of the 7 TNG series on DVD. I own all the original VHS tapes of DS9 season1 and 2. I own VHS tapes of the animated series. I own the original VHS release of 'The Cage'. I own Star Trek books, comics,figures, toys and collectable items. And probably other stuff as well that I have forgotten.

I think that it is safe to say that I like Star Trek. I love the Abrams films.

The very worst film, the absolute nadir of Star Trek is ST:V - The Final Frontier. Anyone who can say the the Abrams films are worse than this unutterably awful ... thing... has absolutely no credibility in my eyes.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby portia » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:58 am

I agree that "The final frontier" belongs down near the bottom.

I have been watching the series since the first showing on TV. It has often been clunky, and self indulgent, but it has also risen to great science fiction, especially when adapting outstanding written science fiction to its purposes, or when realizing that the heroes do not always have to win for the story to work.
I also admire, though I do not always agree with Roddenberry's avoidance of violence. It has led to some clunkiness but also very interesting stories of the problems of dealing with aliens and alien ways of thinking. (A letter I wrote to the producers during the first effort to keep it on the air asked for more of these stories. They didn't pay a lot of attention, but some effort was put into it later).
In spite of my annoyance with abandoning the original timeline, I hope stories in that Universe continue.

The 2009 movie was not at all bad, aside from abandoning the original timeline. The casting (except for Uhuru) was good.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby GlassHouse » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:18 pm

Yes there have been clunkers in all the incarnations. I think the biggest (and hardest for me to deal with) change in the evolution of the Trek franchise is the slow but sure pulling away from the actors and story as the central focus of the show/movies. What made TOS was the use of hammy character actors who delighted in chewing up the scenery and the occasional use of some great writers and the fact that it was new and ground breaking for TV science fiction in it's occasional attempts to examine current social issues.
The first reboot, TNG, seemed to reject that formula almost entirely, the characters and writing were flat, wooden and uninteresting (with an occasional rare exception) and that pattern was repeated over and over in all of it's spin off series. I don't know if it was too much reliance on the flashy new effects they were capable of or just plain uninspired writing (easier to kill some time with loads of meaningless techno-babble (or psycho-babble if you're Counselor Troy :roll: ) but TNG on seemed to have very little in common with TOS other than the shared history of that universe.
Then comes the Abrams era and not only to we get more effects (badly used IMO) and less acting and almost zero coherent story or plot but the entire timeline and universe are removed. Now all we have in common with the original is some names of the characters and planets! (and even Vulcan is destroyed!)

I guess they can call it Star Trek if they want - but I don't see it.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby hamlet » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:59 pm

Gungnir wrote:
hamlet wrote:
They're Star Trek movies for people who don't actually like Star Trek, made by a guy who doesn't like Star Trek.


I've been watching Star Trek since the very early 70s. All flavours including the animated series. I was a member of the UK official Star Trek Fan club when it first started in 1994. I've seen every film except Insurrection and Nemesis in the cinema and own them all on DVD and/or Blu-Ray. I own all the original Series on Blu-Ray. I own 4 of the 7 TNG series on DVD. I own all the original VHS tapes of DS9 season1 and 2. I own VHS tapes of the animated series. I own the original VHS release of 'The Cage'. I own Star Trek books, comics,figures, toys and collectable items. And probably other stuff as well that I have forgotten.

I think that it is safe to say that I like Star Trek. I love the Abrams films.

The very worst film, the absolute nadir of Star Trek is ST:V - The Final Frontier. Anyone who can say the the Abrams films are worse than this unutterably awful ... thing... has absolutely no credibility in my eyes.



And I own all of Star Trek excepting Enterprise. I would rather watch Star Trek V: Final Frontier than either of Abrams' movies.

Are we done measuring Trekkie Credentials?

I'm actually not arguing that they're bad as Star Trek Movies, though I would argue that they are. I'm arguing that, as movies above and beyond being Star Trek, they're just poor.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby Hobbituk » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:16 pm

hamlet wrote:
Gungnir wrote:
hamlet wrote:
They're Star Trek movies for people who don't actually like Star Trek, made by a guy who doesn't like Star Trek.


I've been watching Star Trek since the very early 70s. All flavours including the animated series. I was a member of the UK official Star Trek Fan club when it first started in 1994. I've seen every film except Insurrection and Nemesis in the cinema and own them all on DVD and/or Blu-Ray. I own all the original Series on Blu-Ray. I own 4 of the 7 TNG series on DVD. I own all the original VHS tapes of DS9 season1 and 2. I own VHS tapes of the animated series. I own the original VHS release of 'The Cage'. I own Star Trek books, comics,figures, toys and collectable items. And probably other stuff as well that I have forgotten.

I think that it is safe to say that I like Star Trek. I love the Abrams films.

The very worst film, the absolute nadir of Star Trek is ST:V - The Final Frontier. Anyone who can say the the Abrams films are worse than this unutterably awful ... thing... has absolutely no credibility in my eyes.



And I own all of Star Trek excepting Enterprise. I would rather watch Star Trek V: Final Frontier than either of Abrams' movies.

Are we done measuring Trekkie Credentials?

I'm actually not arguing that they're bad as Star Trek Movies, though I would argue that they are. I'm arguing that, as movies above and beyond being Star Trek, they're just poor.


Well, you did say...

They're Star Trek movies for people who don't actually like Star Trek, made by a guy who doesn't like Star Trek.


So Gungnir was pointing out that, as someone who does like Star Trek, that may not be quite accurate.

But you both have bigger Trekkie Credentials than me! And long may it so continue :)
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby oldtoby » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:54 pm

One may not like JJ's Trek, but I don't know how anyone can deny that Star Trek V was the absolute Low point.... Im talking Marianas Trench low.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby Gungnir » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:54 pm

Hobbituk wrote:
Well, you did say...

They're Star Trek movies for people who don't actually like Star Trek, made by a guy who doesn't like Star Trek.


So Gungnir was pointing out that, as someone who does like Star Trek, that may not be quite accurate.


That was exactly my point. I also know people who are much bigger Star Trek fans than I am, cosplaying convention goers. They love the new films as well.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby Gungnir » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:55 pm

oldtoby wrote:One may not like JJ's Trek, but I don't know how anyone can deny that Star Trek V was the absolute Low point.... Im talking Marianas Trench low.


This.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby portia » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:28 am

What I hve disliked from the beginning is the emphasis on "monster- of-the-week" or "attack of the week"

Do you recall the TNG story about contact with a group of people who didn't speak directly, but only in references to other situations, parables, etc? Picard had to make contact with them and struggled to understand their method of communication. That is the sort of thing I have always been hoping for, understanding that since we have trouble communicating with occupants of this planet with whom we share 90% of our DNA, what will be the problems communicating with extraterrestrials?

But, to be fair, Those sorts of stories are seldom as interesting as the conflict/violence stories.

Glasshouse: Possibly my favorite of the stories written or re-written from famou0s authors was "Arena" by Frederick Brown which had Kirk and an extraterrestrial in an anti-violence episode. I looked it up and it comes from a story published in 1944. It was changed in detail, but not the point of the story.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby Peremensoe » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:38 pm

...
Last edited by Peremensoe on Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby Peremensoe » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:44 pm

portia wrote:Do you recall the TNG story about contact with a group of people who didn't speak directly, but only in references to other situations, parables, etc? Picard had to make contact with them and struggled to understand their method of communication. That is the sort of thing I have always been hoping for, understanding that since we have trouble communicating with occupants of this planet with whom we share 90% of our DNA, what will be the problems communicating with extraterrestrials?


"Darmok." A classic.

But, to be fair, Those sorts of stories are seldom as interesting as the conflict/violence stories.


Oh, I disagree. I think my list of the best Trek stories would have many with no violence at all.


The Abrams movies are clearly a fault line among fans. While I enjoyed some aspects of the first one, seeing it in the theater, in the end I found it mostly dumb flash, with very little of the soul of the best Trek. Reviews of the second made it seem like more of the same, and more so. I don't think I need to see any more Abrams.

So count me with hamlet.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby Gungnir » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:31 am

portia wrote:What I hve disliked from the beginning is the emphasis on "monster- of-the-week" or "attack of the week".


To be fair, this was mostly in season 3 of the Original Series when Fred Freiberger was brought in as producer. Before that the scripts were (for the most part) a bit more intelligent and thought provoking.

It's interesting to note that when Freiberger was brought in as producer of season 2 of Gerry Anderson's 'Space 1999', he did exactly the same thing - turned it into a 'monster of the week' show and killed it off. He did the same for the Six Million Dollar Man.

Freiberger as Star Trek producer - wiki
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby hamlet » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:34 am

oldtoby wrote:One may not like JJ's Trek, but I don't know how anyone can deny that Star Trek V was the absolute Low point.... Im talking Marianas Trench low.


I LIKE Star Trek V!

Gave us one of the best lines out of all of Trek. "What does God need, with a starship?"

Was it a good movie? Oh, hell no! But it managed to be entertaining at least, and I still rank it as being more entertaining to watch that JJ's versions.

The new movies are are, as was pointed out above, all dumb flash, special effects, and ACTION!!!!! They go too damnded fast and the plot of the second made virtually no sense if you spent 5 minutes thinking about it. I mean, even less sense than Star Trek Nemesis (which, by the way, I vote as the worst Star Trek movie of all time). JJ's movies were vapid. They are the Transformers movies of the Trek universe.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby Walkerd1602 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:24 am

Last saw this thread when there were about 5 replies, feel like the phrase "can....open.....worms.....everywhere....." applies now.

It would appear that through the generations of ST fans, there are definite issues with various parts of the franchise. My issues aren't with the any particular parts of the franchise and the films, just some fans reactions to the more recent films.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby Melwa » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:59 pm

Walkerd1602 wrote:feel like the phrase "can....open.....worms.....everywhere....." applies now.

Oh, yeah! Totally! :lmbo:
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby Gungnir » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:51 am

hamlet wrote:I LIKE Star Trek V!.


So you're the one.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby portia » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:30 pm

Ok, I bought the thing.
I feel that it tried to include too many plot elements, twists, false endings etc, and ended up becoming a mess. It is as if the writing team had so many ideas and was afraid that they would not have the opportunity to use them.
That is aside from casting BC, but not giving him a decent character to play.

I haven't seen many of Abrams' previous director/producer efforts, but puting too much into the plot reminds me a lot of "Lost."
There were so many arbitrary elements--to many for the show to support-- that I stopped watching and was not interested in how the whole thing came out.

In this ST:ID I got tired of the whole thing about the time Kahn and Kirk started across to the other ship, and I am usually tolerant of ST. No one is interested, but I could provide a list of the plot elements that could/should have been ditched, to the benefit of the movie.

"Half of Art is Knowing when to stop" (attributed to Arthur William Radfor)
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby MeadowForest » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:36 am

I'm not exactly a big Star Trek fan and thought the latest film was quite decent. Possibly helped by having Benedict in it. I wasn't expecting too much after the bore of the first reboot! I have watched the original Wrath of Khan since and found it pretty different really, and perhaps dragged a bit. Khan and crew looked like an '80s band. :D I haven't watched any other film, yet doubt the recent film could be the worst!
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby hamlet » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:15 am

MeadowForest wrote: Khan and crew looked like an '80s band. :D


There's a reason for that, you know . . .

It's not that the new film is "the worst." No, I think Nemesis probably takes the cake for that.

It's that . . . uhm . . . well . . .

Hard to explain without going off into a very long post that I don't think is appropriate.

Essentially, and this is one of my biggest complaints, the movie goes so fast that it NEVER pauses, slows down, or even glances backwards to make sure that it's plot makes even a lick of sense. It never even offers a chance for acting/presentation/ANYTHING to stand on its own when a special effect, chop cut, or overly dramatic and invasive music will do the trick instead. Frothing at the mouth breakneck pace action and special effects Michael Bay style are they key to the movie and there's just not enough underneath it to actually make it worth the time of watching it.

That, and really, the plot makes very little sense when you stop to think about it for a couple of minutes. And no, I don't mean "it's sci-fi, of course it doesn't make sense!" I mean "it makes no freakin' sense!"
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby frito bugger » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:31 pm

Reboots are silly.These films are visually arresting,but the rest is just spockrot.If the feeling was that original star Trek was just to damn 'late sixties' then i can see quite clearly the 'cultural' reboot here,instead of the future seen from four decades back,its the future seen from the now,it will all look and sound just as silly in 20 odd years!
I dont like the 'alternative-dimension-element-so-we-can-include-original-spock-and-gel-it-together-better-thing'.Its a long winded way around a simple problem.In my mind it should have just been a complete remake,from the bottom up,if it were good enough on its own merit,people would accept it,and love it.To play an alternative trek was an odd choice that causes lots of holes to appear in the idea when it could have been seamless had multi dimensional spock been dropped,and star trek simply remade.It seems that rather than 'freeing' themselves from being constricted by the original series,by making it occur in another dimension-with spock present,theyve made it more restrictive,as spocks presence reminds us that old star trek did happen,and its happening again,just in another dimension where they look a bit alike or sometimes completely different,they have the same or sometimes completely different motivations as the original characters and they speak with a multi dimensional spock who knows everything about whats going to happen but yet doesnt(and herein will lay all the 'suprises'),its surely a continuity nightmare that was all unnecessary.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby Melwa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:45 pm

I finally got around to watching it last night, and I want to talk!But, since this thread is not for mere chat, I shall resist. I was expecting to dislike ID. Really. Instead, I enjoyed it. As for worst of the movies . . .hmm. I've only seen them once or so each, but I don't like the first or the last one of the old set. The middle three are better, I think. How to compare the new and the old is difficult.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness voted "Worst Star Trek" movie?!!

Postby Calma » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:21 am

I can not say it's the worst movie, because I have not seen it.
And I will not see it.

I saw the first re-boot and after the second viewing
I realized I didn't like the concept
So I didn't go to Into Darkness.

Now my husband did and he enjoyed the film.
He's the biggest Star Trek fan in this house.
But if you need my creds...
I met my husband at a Star Trek convention.

My opinion is that they are milking the franchise
And the cash cow is drying up.

Oh, and I thought ST:V was the pits, too.
Though "Why does God need a starship?" is the best line ever. :D
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