Pearl Harbor

Come here and discuss your favorite Non-Tolkien movies, TV shows, radio plays, etc.

Postby roaccarcsson » Thu May 31, 2001 9:39 am

Kelannar wrote: >So what can revisonists say about LOTR now? How can they object to someone who says they will refuse to see LOTR?<BR><BR>Uh - How can anybody object to anybody's decision not to see any movie whatsoever? Last time I looked it was still a free country.<BR><BR>I personally decide not to go to about 90\% of the movies that are released, based on reviews in the media and word-of-mouth. Surely everybody who does not actually get paid to go to movies makes that kind of decision every week. That is a little bit different from making a decision months and years in advance of release, (In fact, I often decide I <b>probably</b> won't go see a forthcoming movie based just on a thumbnail description and/or cast list. But I sometimes change my mind if people whose opinion I respect say they liked it.)<BR><BR>Switching for a moment from the movie realm to the internet realm -- one thing I do NOT want to see is an insultfest starring the usual suspects. Does anybody disagree? Guys, you are right and Kel is wrong, but it has been proved over and over again that getting mad at him gets us nowhere except Lockdownville.
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Postby freaqboy » Thu May 31, 2001 10:16 am

<BR> This is funny. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR><BR> Please, Kelannar, Tell me again the part about how believing Tora! Tora! Tora! to be a superior movie than Pearl Harbor proves I'm wrong about the art of adaption! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR><BR>
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Postby ~Elrohir~ » Thu May 31, 2001 10:17 am

Hey...I thought I was "Mr. Revisionist"? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I would like to point out to Fin that I also view Josh Hartnett as a void of talent and I ABSOLUTELY will defend Keanu Reaves as a SUPERIOR actor to Ben "How on Earth did I make it so big" Affleck.<BR><BR>But, Alec Baldwin as Doolittle actually WAS one of the highlights of the film...
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Postby Khajran » Thu May 31, 2001 10:45 am

Kelannar:<BR><BR>I think (hope?) I may have misunderstood the thrust of your argument here, so let me attempt to clarify it for myself. If I misrepresent, please let me know.<BR><BR>Consider two stances on two separate films: we'll call them Stance A and Stance B (and Film A and Film B ).<BR><BR>Stance A: Film A has recently been released. After considering a large quantity of reviews of the finished film, both from peers on this messageboard and from trusted professional film critics, I have determined that Film A is likely a poor movie.<BR><BR>Stance B: Film B is currently in production. After considering some publicity stills, a two-minute trailer, and reports from someone called "Ninja Galadriel", I have determined that Film B will be a poor movie if/when it is completed.<BR><BR>Is it, in fact, your argument that Stance A and Stance B are similar enough that espousing one and disagreeing with the other is hypocrisy? Is it your belief that the quantity and accuracy of evidence are irrelevant in this discussion?<BR><BR>--k
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Postby Prankster » Thu May 31, 2001 11:02 am

Kel, I think you need to be careful about your arguments. You often give the impression of battling the multi-headed revisionist monster, which doesn't exist. We're all a bunch of individuals, with our own viewpoints and opinions and methods of argument and levels of hypocrisy. We're not a political party. I'm not required to "toe the line" and agree with Xhen, for instance, as a show of solidarity.<BR><BR>It wouldn't be very productive of me, in the middle of an argument with a purist, to shout, "Well that's not what Kelannar thinks!!" Just because you voice an opinion doesn't mean it's held by the entire category of humans called "purists". And the same is true in reverse. <BR><BR>For instance, I've never, ultimately, had anything against people deciding that what they'd seen of the movies looked bad. I've never tried to argue that people HAVE to see the movies if they don't want to. I have on occasion stated that people who don't see the movie are giving up the right to comment once it comes out, and, as you've pointed out, I've more or less done the same to Pearl Harbour, though with obvious reluctance. Tell you what. I won't make any more disparaging comments about PH until I've seen it, if you'll do the same to LOTR, 'kay? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>BTW, I'm fascinated by your suggestion that we know as much about LOTR right now as anyone who's seen the movie knows about PH. Care to explain?
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Postby Telemachos » Thu May 31, 2001 11:12 am

Elrohir -- Keanu tries harder than anyone (and I generally like him), but I still think Affleck is a better actor. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR>But I agree that Alex Baldwin was one of the highlights of PH. (Although I would have cut out the third act where he was most featured, if I was the editor of the film).<BR><BR>
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Postby Xhen » Thu May 31, 2001 11:24 am

There's nothing wrong with considering reviews, trailers, word-of-mouth or anything else in deciding whether or not a movie is going to suit your tastes. I took one look at the trailer for <i>Freddy Got Fingered</i> and decided I didn't have the slightest interest in seeing it. What's ridiculous is when an unfinished and unseen film is described as "terrible" and a "failure" as though those are unassailable facts.
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Postby roaccarcsson » Thu May 31, 2001 12:18 pm

Well, I thought Ben A. was terrific in "Shakespeare in Love."<BR><BR>Never seen him in a leading-man role though.
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Postby Bernd » Thu May 31, 2001 12:25 pm

<BR>My mom thought Pearl Harbor was "excellent."<BR><BR>Is she wrong?
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Postby Telemachos » Thu May 31, 2001 12:30 pm

Yes. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby Sauron_the_Maia » Thu May 31, 2001 12:38 pm

The difference between LOTR and Pearl Harbor, I think, is simply that LOTR is a "must see" movie trilogy (this is a LOTR forum, after all), whereas Pearl Harbor is most certainly not. The ideological combat I observe happening around here now again between "revisionists" and "purists" over Peter Jackson's flicks doesn't logically extend to all other movies for that very reason. Not that I care (since I've not actively participated in said combat at any time). I label myself a revisionist, but that's only because I acknowledge that six hours of film cannot hope to capture all that goes on in the books with absolute fidelity. But realistically, unless a movie is "must see", many of us are going to let reviews and comments from others sway our decision on whether or not to fork over our own hard-earned cash to see something at a theater. Peter Jackson is in the unique position of creating something most all of us deem to be "must see", so it would behoove us to afford him maximum latitude and the benefit of the doubt until such time that we see the movie with our own eyes.<BR><BR>Oh well. Continue screaming at each other. It's very amusing! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Fatty_Bolger » Thu May 31, 2001 3:29 pm

LOL<BR>Kel, looks like we may agree on some points. I'd like to see PH tank and Disney lose a lot of $$ there. Alas it won't happen, it seems.<BR>But then, isn't it what you secretly wish for LOTR and New Line, seriously?<BR><BR>Now, about not seeing a movie, well I would clearly understand people wouldn't want to see it. But coming into a LOTR movies site and saying for months if not years the movies will be awful is pretty different behaviour compared to the average guy that thinks a movie stinks and doesn't plan to see it. It's the same level of obsession than people eager to see it have (so yes I'm VERY obsessive with LOTR). In fact, it's not that far from the trollish behaviour of AICN talkbackers which claim "Episode II will suk" or "LOTR will tank" in their respective articles.<BR><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>
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Postby finarfin » Thu May 31, 2001 7:23 pm

Well I'm glad Baldwin#1 was redeeming in his portrayal of Doolittle, but I'm afraid that role is filled by Spencer Tracy in my head. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Telemachos » Thu May 31, 2001 10:24 pm

I don't know much about Doolittle, so I can't say whether Baldwin did an accurate portrayal or not. But he was fun to watch at least, slinging cheesy lines with the best of them! <BR><BR>DOOLITTLE: "We've lost the battle but we're gonna win the war. You know why?"<BR><BR>(points at Affleck and Hartnett)<BR><BR>DOOLITTLE: "Them."<BR><BR>SLOW DOLLY IN on Doolittle's face.<BR><BR>DOOLITTLE: "There's nothing like the heart of a volunteer."<BR><BR>(heartfelt music)<BR><BR><BR>ROTFL-barf! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>
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