The original Star Wars

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Postby Telemachos » Sun Jul 15, 2001 3:56 pm

There are two more movies to establish how much training Obi-Wan receives from Yoda. With Qui-Gon dead, it seems obvious that Yoda would step in to complete Obi-Wan's training (particularly because of that reference).
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Postby Tuor, » Sun Jul 15, 2001 11:46 pm

You will remember that in the opening scene Obi-wan tells his master that something bothers him. Qui-Gon says that he doesn't sense anything wrong, then Obi-wan says that it is something elusive. Qui-Gon then told Obi-wan not to worry about the future, but to conscentrate on the present. Obi-wan replied, but master Yoda told me to be mindful of the future, to which Qui-Gon replied but not at the expense of the present.<BR><BR>Obi-wan is a jedi knight at the end of episode one, so his training is complete. Obi-wan was taught by Yoda, but it took place before the time period during which episode one took place.
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Postby FoulOleRon_No2 » Mon Jul 16, 2001 4:16 am

Thanks <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Klonkku » Mon Jul 16, 2001 10:13 am

I have my concerns towards Episode II. I used to visit TheForce.net's messageboards, but stopped ages ago as there was many spoiler-troll-attacks. I don't want to know anything about Episode II. I am still interested - as Episode I wasn't such a big disappointment. It was a thrill-ride, but it truly didn't hold the magic of the first three. Still, I'm ready to forgive everything if Episode II turns out to be worthy prequel of the classic trilogy.<BR><BR>And about the classic trilogy. They've been on my favourite movies-list for ages. From the first viewing. I was a SW-freak before Episode I came out - and I read every spoiler possible. Mistake, it was, and learned from it I did, yes...<BR><BR>But, you can always remember the improvement between Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom and Indiana Jones and the last Crusade. Temple of Doom wasn't a bad movie, but it wasn't as entertaining and full of that action-magic as the first one, but the third one saved it all and was actually the best of the trilogy! Now Lucas can still save Episode I making Episode II entertaining and full of that fairy-tale magic... There is that possibility. But if Episode II fails, I don't know whether I have the interest to see a ruined Star Wars or not. Then I prefer to close my eyes from Episode III, and not see it at all, just to save the original trilogy and still keep my opinion that Star Wars is a classic and fantastic movie-universe...
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Postby Grimm » Mon Jul 16, 2001 10:59 am

well Klonkku, I have to agree with most of what you say, if Episode II is a good movie, then I bet alot of people can forgive the first one, but if it is as bad as the first one, then I dont know if I would even bother going to see any others...ever.<BR><BR>and by the way....I agree with you on the Indiana Jones idea. It DID make up for the Temple of Doom, and it was an excellent movie, but I dont think it was the best of the series by far. The first one was my favorite.
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Postby Iavas_Saar » Mon Jul 16, 2001 12:57 pm

It is quite sad to see that TPM has become almost universally accepted as a poor movie. I will try and defend it!<BR><BR>1. TPM was never going to have the same 'feel' as the first three. It was always going to be more state of the art, full of spectacular effects etc. To expect it to merge seemlessly with the other films after such a long gap would have been foolish. I agree that it has lost some of that raw edge that the first 3 had. But in it's place you get these stunningly beautiful moments, ie. when you pan over Naboo for the first time, or you see the sun setting behind Coruscant, with John Williams score adding tons of atmosphere. I always feel fully emersed in the SW universe during those wonderful landscape shots, which weren't possible in the original trilogy (OT).<BR><BR>2. Part of the reason, I believe, for how different TPM seems to the OT, is that the political climate is completely different. TPM is set at a time of peace, when evil is only just starting to emerge. That is why it is full of bright tones, and why it feels much more light-hearted. I believe Episode II will begin to show the journey towards the dark times, and the film itself will be much darker. This will make the progression towards the rise of the Empire even more pronounced, when you see how 'light' things were to begin with.<BR><BR>3. People complain at the lack of a strong plot. Well, the main purpose of the film is as an introduction to the saga. We need to feel like we have taken a journey from light to dark and then back to light at the very end of ROTJ. The initial 'light' phase has to be estabilished, but it cannot contain anything like the 'fate of the universe' plot that develops later on. I believe the plot for the movie (the attempted takeover of Naboo, the emergance of the Sith, Palpatine coming to power, Anakin leaving his mother) are strong enough for the purpose of this introductory movie.<BR><BR>4. There is plenty of Edge-of-the-seat stuff. The pod race was like a rollercoaster ride, and was done with real tension. The effects for the pod race are some of the most impressive ever witnessed. Also the light-saber duel, what an experience! I could almost physically feel every blow. What about the moment when Darth Maul uses the force to direct an object to hit the open button on the door behind him without even looking, what an awesome moment! For pure adrenalin, this light-saber fight is far better than anything in the OT, although obviously not as emotionally charged.<BR><BR>5. There are more of those classic aliens. I think the Trade Federation guys are pure Star Wars, and I love Sebulba's wily antics with sabotaging Anakins pod. I think Watto is a great character, and I've perfected my impression of "No, they won't! What, you think you're some sort of Jedi waving your hands around like that?" The big fishies are very cool, I love the way the Gumba fish sways from side to side as it follows. I don't particularly mind the Gungans either, and I like Captain Tarpas or whatever his name is. JJB is a fault, no doubt there. I can tolerate him though.<BR><BR>6. The detail in the background. Each of the 7 times I saw the film in the cinema I noticed something new going on the background. And if you look on theforce.net, they have a list of all the background things to look out for, and I hadn't noticed most of them.<BR><BR>7. THE MUSIC! Man, this is my favourite film score ever! If you listen to it, you realise what an atmospheric world has been created here. This is probably more down to Williams' skill than Lucas's, although Williams must have taken his inspiration from the images he was seeing. There are just so many moments in the film where the music just draws you in and matches perfectly what you are seeing. Williams is a genius! Here are some examples of perfect blends of music and image:<BR><BR>- The force theme when Qui-Gon is trying to burn through the door with his light-saber.<BR>- The first appearance of Naboo.<BR>- The night-time appearance of Naboo.<BR>- The 'ahhhs' as the Gumba fish begins to chase the sub.<BR>- The booming music when the 'big fish' captures the smaller fish.<BR>- The soft version of the droid march as Amidala stands at her window, that is such a beautiful moment!<BR>- The music as you first see the binary suns of Tatooine.<BR>- When we zoom in on a night-time Coruscant.<BR>- The music when Anakin says 'Are you an angel?'. So gorgeous!<BR>- The booming march as we see the flag parade.<BR>- The stirring force theme as Anakin turns to leave his home.<BR>- The sun setting over Coruscant. (Just think of the music at this moment and you'll sigh contentedly)<BR>- The shimmering appearance of the night-time Jedi council room.<BR>- The appearance of Darth Maul. The most stunning entrance EVER!<BR>- The whole of 'Duel of the fates'!<BR>- Obi-Wans 'Nooooooo!'<BR><BR>You see, there are so many cool moments, you can't deny it!! And I'm sure there are more I've missed.<BR><BR>8. I also hear complaints that there are too many special effects, but I think the effects are wonderful, and give you a level of detail that you didn't get with the other films. I can now feel like they have created whole planets, like when you see Coruscant stretching away as far as the eye can see. Think of all that life bustling away! It stretches your imagination even further. Sometimes I wish they would make 'A tour of the SW universe', where we followed a camera just floating over the surface of Coruscant, or following the droid army on their whole journey over Naboo. These worlds all seemed so beautifully real.<BR><BR>Well, I should stop there. If nothing else, I have reminded myself of all the things to admire in TPM, depsite its faults.<BR><BR>Nick.<BR><BR>
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Postby tuile » Mon Jul 16, 2001 11:37 pm

Oh Iavas_saar, I agree with ya..and I understand where you are coming from...there are some great, terrific moments in PM. And I don't feel that there were to many special effects, and yes the music and atmosphere were amazing...<BR><BR>But, I knew that area would be covered...I knew that Lucas was concerned about the lack of expansive alien surroundings in the first three movies, (not that I noticed..)<BR><BR>What I was soooo dissapointed in was the dialogue, the characters, the dang story...I said to myself the same stuff...it is the introduction...this is where you meet the characters...it has to set up five movies...but what happened was exactly what I was worried about...<BR><BR>I felt the beginning was boring (except for the lightsaber action<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>) and well, it just didn't really grab me...Qui-Gon's character was as flat as a pancake, and Darth Maul had what..two lines??? I wanted mooooore!!! The mysteries that the PM plot alluded to, like the Senator guy, whatshisname...Palpatine??? being the Emperor...we know that stuff...what about all the stuff we don't know?? And what is the deal with the virgin birth due to those n----things??? That just seemed to come from out of nowhere...we saw nothing in Anakin that would forshadow his turn, 'cept when he left his mum...<BR><BR>I have watched the other three movies countless times over the years. I have yet to rent or buy the Phantom Menace. That bugs me.<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif"border=0><BR>Who knows, maybe if I do, I'll love it...
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Postby Klonkku » Tue Jul 17, 2001 1:12 am

Nick,<BR><BR>Star Wars Episode I wasn't a poor, bad movie. But to me, for my personal feel, it just didn't live up to the classic trilogy. It is the introduction, yes, and Episode II can save a lot - as I truly can't say my opinion about the movie 'til the first trilogy is completed. Then I can say how well it toned the prequel-sequels, and how much they added to the EP I.<BR><BR>I agree that PM had its moments - I especially enjoyed the Pod Race scene ( 'tho the result was very obvious... still, Star Wars is a fairy-tale, so who cares? ) and the lightsaber duels were much more amazing, fast and tense as in the good ol' classic trilogy. <BR><BR>But to me, the computer effects - being as wonderful as they were - looked artificial. I could tell from every scene Jar-Jar was in that he had been made with computer. And he looked so artificial next to the real people that it disturbed me. Many of the landscapes were beautiful, and the music by Williams was classic ( again ), but many of the scenes did look artificial...<BR><BR>What I didn't enjoy, after Jar-Jar, was the two big fights in the end. The Space battle, for example, tried to catch the action and classic tense of the Episodes 4 and 6, but in vain. It was over-exaggerated, too fast and too quickly over. It won't become a classic scene like the Battle of Yavin and Endor are. And the gungans vs. droids... altho' it was quite tense scene in theaters, due to the clever music, it still was somewhat brainless. And it truly showed that Jar-Jar is nothing more than Goofy adapted to the Galaxy Far Far Away... <BR><BR>But I still enjoyed the overall experience of PM. The movie is more entertainment than a deep and thoughtful ride. But still, it lost some of the SW magic, but it can achieve some... if Lucas pulls the right strings with Episode II.
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Postby Gormegil » Tue Jul 17, 2001 9:19 am

Actually, one of the biggest problems with SW:TPM was that there really was NO menace! The big "villians" were basically a bunch of stupid clowns. No big threat, and not cool at all. One of the great things about Star Wars was that it always had cool villians where were credible threats, not oafish clowns.
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Postby Mithfânion » Tue Jul 17, 2001 10:47 am

Vegan:<BR><BR><i>I don't think Star Wars is sci-fi in ANY way. There are NO attempts at a scientific explanation for ANYTHING, while the fantasy elements are abundant. </i><BR><BR>No? ~Midichlorians~ <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I actually liked TPM, I saw it twice. Good film. I preferred it over the old films, by a mile.<BR><BR>
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Postby FoulOleRon_No2 » Tue Jul 17, 2001 12:10 pm

LOL <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> I liked that. Darth Maul The Oaf! I'm still laughing <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Grimm » Tue Jul 17, 2001 3:04 pm

Did anyone else notice that Lucas did the EXACT same ending scenes in ROTJ? Three fights happening at the same time. <BR>First, the light sabre duel: Luke vs. Vader/ Qui-gonn and Obi-wan vs. Darth Maul<BR>Second, the land war: Ewoks vs. Stormtroopers/ gunguns vs. droids<BR>Third, a space battle: Naboo vs. massive trade ships/ rebels vs. massive star destroyer.<BR><BR>Could he not think of something a little different?
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Postby Telemachos » Tue Jul 17, 2001 4:59 pm

It was effective in ROTJ and effective in TPM (despite the lameness of Jake Lloyd's acting and Jar-Jar). If he does something similar in EpII, I'll be fine with it, as long as it's well done.
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