New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Elmtree » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:26 pm

Gungnir wrote:That's the rumour, Max


I've heard that rumour as well.

I think someone should send the Dwarf's guide to the press, particularly the U.S. Press which isn't very familiar with the show. I especially like the clarification of the character's name, as even actors have made the mistake of using the interrogative pronoun after the title "Doctor". and that is, indeed, a mistake as the Dwarf points out.

His description of the Daleks is spot on.
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Gungnir » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:55 am

Over the last couple of days I've been re-reading the comic strips that appeared in the UK Doctor Who Weekly comic from Marvel around 1979/1980. I was a subscriber of this comic from issue 1 for a number of years until it became Doctor Who Monthly but had forgotten how absolutely OUTSTANDING the comic strips were. Written by Pat Mills and John Wagner (who invented and wrote Judge Dredd) and illustrated by Dave Gibbons (the artist of Watchmen), the stories include the Fourth Doctor fighting against:-

  • The Robot Legionaries of a Roman Empire which never collapsed, ruled by aliens which look and act remarkably like the Krillitane
  • A world where emotions have been outlawed, ruled by sinister 'Moderators' :) which is very like the movie 'Equilibrium'.
  • An evil alien mastermind in hiding on earth
  • An invasion of werewolves from space
  • Sontarans
  • Daleks!

If you are into comics, and like Doctor Who, they are well worth reading

Also

This rather excellent article by the rather excellent Alastair Reynolds*, who is about the same age as me, pretty much sums up everything I think about Doctor Who
SFX Magazine - GUEST BLOG Alastair Reynolds talks Doctor Who

* The author of a number of rather excellent science fiction books which I can heartily recommend and one Doctor Who novel which I haven't yet but need to at some point in the near future
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Hobbituk » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:04 am

I read that article earlier today and oddly, given some of our differences on the Sci Fi in Doctor Who Gungnir, I agreed with it entirely. Though perhaps some of his observations which might be considered weaknesses are what I consider to be strengths. :)
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Wildwood » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:25 pm

Nobody is talking about it, but I am just dreading the loss of Matt Smith! :D :D :D :D :D He's not even my favorite of the modern doctors. Christopher Eccleston is. :D :D :D :D :D :D But I am still sad to see him go. What I have loved about his Doctor is that, while he can be a bit goofy, he is always pretty much in control of things! And that silliness drops, at times, and reveals such a depth of pain and loss; and then he is, by another turn, menacing and powerful! It's a real treat to watch!

I was noticing on my umpteenth rewatch of the anniversary special that he really came off as the oldest of them all, while being the youngest actor in the group. Amazing!

When I had to give up MY doctor, I was highly resistant to accepting David Tennant! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D But by the time he was throwing that orange at the button, dumping the bad guy over the edge of the space ship, I was on board entirely! :D :D :D :D :D And then - when David Tennant was leaving, I didn't want him to go, and I was so not open to Matt Smith. But by the end of that episode - "Basically, Run" - I was entranced! Totally ready to go wherever he was going to lead me! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D And so now, here I am again. Pouting and resistant, but absolutely certain that, in a very short time, the new Doctor will win me over! I just really don't like goodbyes! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

OH - Another thing I wanted to discuss!!! If CE had been willing to be in the 50th, that storyline would have worked seamlessly, don't you think? The mini-episode would have shown 8 turning to 9. Then all the things JH had to do would have been done by CE, and the flow would have been practically flawless! I am beyond impressed with the way they worked around it. And not being a classic Who devotee, I am a lot more flexible about it than the more diehard types (who, by the way, I totally understand and respect!) But wouldn't it have been fantastic :D :D :D :D :D to see CE do that part??!!
Discuss!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Elmtree » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:16 am

Back when Tristan replaced The Only Doctor Ever, Tom Baker, I could not bring myself to watch anymore. Tristan? Come on. I didn't watch again until Tennant, that's how much I resisted change! LOL. Then I went back and watched the others and realized what I'd missed! But I always have a difficult time with regeneration, though I admit by the end of End of Time, I was quite ready for Tennant to go. That was mostly do to those last ten or fifteen minutes of whining. lol. Part of me really wanted to see Ten (or whatever his number is now) with River, just for some continuity with Silence in the Library. But Matt was great. I found the stories in the first season not quite up to par (most of them felt like they needed a rewrite or a little tweaking) but this wasn't the doctor. Smith is now one of my favorites. He is an incredible actor. He did indeed come across as the oldest of the three in the anniversary special. He just 'got' everything about the doctor right.
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Hobbituk » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:29 am

Wildwood wrote:
OH - Another thing I wanted to discuss!!! If CE had been willing to be in the 50th, that storyline would have worked seamlessly, don't you think? The mini-episode would have shown 8 turning to 9. Then all the things JH had to do would have been done by CE, and the flow would have been practically flawless! I am beyond impressed with the way they worked around it. And not being a classic Who devotee, I am a lot more flexible about it than the more diehard types (who, by the way, I totally understand and respect!) But wouldn't it have been fantastic :D :D :D :D :D to see CE do that part??!!
Discuss!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


Steven Moffat talked about that in this month's Doctor Who Magazine. Apparently he wrote the script mostly on the assumption that Eccleston wouldn't do it (although he did agree to a couple of meetings). Moffat also said that it made more sense to have an 'inbetween' Doctor fighting the Time War as he just couldn't picture Paul McGann's Doctor doing that, and it wouldn't fit with Eccleston's Doctor as we meet him in 'Rose' - apparently newly regenerated.

I would have loved to have seen Eccleston properly in the Anniversary Episode. I suppose there's always the 60th ( ;) )... which Matt has already said he's up for!
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Elmtree » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:21 pm

My understanding was that the part for CE was like the parts for MS and DT. When CE said 'no' they split up his lines between the War Doctor, the 10th and 11th (ish) doctors. But my understanding comes from posts on Gallifrey Base so it's not necessarily reliable. lol.

It makes sense that Moffat would have written expecting not to get CE, but willing to do rewrites if he had to if CE unexpectedly said yes. Who knows, maybe for the sixtieth... after all, we got the shocker of Tom Baker in this anniversary, and he's another one who didn't want to come back for a long long time.

I can't express how happy it made me to hear *my doctor's* voice at the end of the anniversary show. :: sniffle ::
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Wildwood » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:52 pm

Elm, I understand you very well. I have never been able to get into the classic episodes, because I just can't get past the old time filming and production values.

I love original Star Trek, for instance, and I never have a problem watching it, but that's because I watched it way back when! So the production values - all the antiquated effects, etc - do not put me off, because I am watching through a filter of nostalgia that lets me ignore those things! But when I see other shows, to which I do not have that nostalgic attachment, I just can't get past it!

HOWEVER - my younger daughter, Sarah, has seen everything available, including the newly discovered episodes that were once thought lost. She is 24 now, and she has made it her business to find out everything about everything Who!! And Tom Baker is her favorite of all the Doctors as well. So when he came into the scene, even when she just heard his voice, she went bananas! Tears, happy shouts, the whole bit! :D :D :D :D

It made the whole thing so much more awesome for her. And in a weird way - her joy made me feel more joyful. You're a great Mom, so I know you will know what I mean! :D :D :D

Note to self: Wildwood should not type when indulging a glass of wine! Fixed my typos! :D :cry2: :? :shock: :( :angry: :D

I am feeling sad, because a beloved dog got horribly injured today, so I am not feeling much like :D :D :D. Feeling much more like :cry2: :cry2: :cry2: .

I will forever love TORC, simply because it is a place I can go for this: :grouphug: :grouphug: when I need it!
:D
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby notlistening » Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:33 pm

Took me a while to work out whom you meant by Tristan, as I have never watched ACGAS. (Love the fact that's he's another Doctor's father in law...)

I'm very much looking forward to seeing the changeover from MS to PC. I never warmed to MS as much as DT or CE as he has often been shown as very silly and frivilous (yes, he is excellent in his serious moments and I wish he'd had more of those.) And some of his scripts during the Amy/Rory days weren't as strong as most of DT and CE's episodes so not Matt's fault. I guess you can't always have winning scripts or maybe I'm just too picky (and miss DT!!)

I think PC will bring a more serious and focussed Doctor back to us, rather than be all timey wimey and talking like children that JH pointed out. But then again his Doctor had the hardest task of all. :cry: I'm looking forward to PC finding Gallifrey in a pocket universe...somewhere.

I wonder if he'll keep Clara???
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby GlassHouse » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:38 am

Christmas special plot summery. Deus ex Machina !

Yeah OK, so that's nothing new. I can't go into any detail because of fear of spoilers. There is a lot that I like about the new Who. Matt Smith's performance is a lot of fun to watch for one but there's a lot I don't care for too. In this case, the Christmas Special, I don't know, to me it seems like in the old Who, they at least made it seem like they weren't just pulling endings out of their backsides at the last minute. What this show really needs if for the writers to regenerate.
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby notlistening » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:34 pm

T'was an interesting Christmas special. The change was quite quick I thought, one moment there, the next PC pops up. No big orange roaring fire change like DT to MS. Still, was nice to have a special. Looking forward to seeing what PC can do and hoping the writers do the new Who justice.
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Wildwood » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:20 pm

SPOILERS TO FOLLOW!!!!!!
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Ok, if you haven't looked away by now, you didn't want to! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I liked the way they wrapped up quite a few things: where did that crack come from? Where did Kovarian and the bad Silence creepy dudes come from? (I really liked seeing the rest of them and the Doctor fighting together. Novel!! I liked how the Doctor explained his lack of regenerations, so his only option was to sit back and wait. I liked the new cycle of regens, gifted to him via the rift, after Clara's pep talk. Still saving the doctor! The truth field was great fun!

What really got to me, though, was after his regen, when he got young again. The bit with the custard got me teary eyed. When Little Amelia appeared to him, but not Clara, I was crying. When Amy showed up...Raggedy Man, Good Night....waaaahhhh! Then he took that dang bow tie off, and I was destroyed!!!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

The switch to PC was so fast, I thought for a moment that my tv had messed up somehow. :D :D :D :D :D The comment about his new kidneys, and the color....and Clara's quizzical looks....was very funny! I am sure that I will soon be totally onboard with PC. I have been militantly opposed to every regeneration that I have been forced....FORCED....to accept. :D :D :D :D :D And immediately fallen in love with the new Doctor every single time. So I will trust them. But it sure does hurt to say goodbye to Matt Smith, at the moment!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Hobbituk » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:25 am

GlassHouse wrote:Christmas special plot summery. Deus ex Machina !

Yeah OK, so that's nothing new. I can't go into any detail because of fear of spoilers. There is a lot that I like about the new Who. Matt Smith's performance is a lot of fun to watch for one but there's a lot I don't care for too. In this case, the Christmas Special, I don't know, to me it seems like in the old Who, they at least made it seem like they weren't just pulling endings out of their backsides at the last minute. What this show really needs if for the writers to regenerate.


Incorrect use of 'Deus Ex Machina' is quickly becoming a pet hate. That wasn't a Deus Ex Machina. You can't have a Deus Ex Machina with a plot device introduced THREE years before it pays off.

And old Who was FAR more guilty of wrapping things up in the last three minutes of the last episode.

If I have a criticism of the Christmas episode it's that any new viewers picked up by 'The Day Of The Doctor' may well have been lost by 'The Time Of The Doctor'. This episode only made sense if you've been paying attention for the last few years. That said, it DID make sense and given the number of adults on the internet claiming they didn't understand it I'm tempted to offer out the services of my 5 year old nephew who understood it perfectly from start to finish.

I loved the episode though, it was a Fairytale End to the Doctor that may well come to be known as the Fairytale Doctor. A period of Doctor Who that has been right up my street perhaps more than any other.

I've loved Matt Smith, and I am very enthused about Peter Capaldi, who is one of the very best actors there is any where or when.
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Gungnir » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:37 am

I understood it but didn't particularly like it. A rather silly story which made absolutely zero sense apart from the various pre-existing threads being pulled together. Can someone please arrange for Moffatt to regenerate as well?
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Hobbituk » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:47 am

If you think it made zero sense, you didn't understand it :)

There were one or two plot holes, but it hung together rather well. Even if, as I said, you would need to have paid attention for quite a while to get it. Which is a bit harsh on any casual Christmas Day viewers. It might have been better to have had a more typical Christmas Day episode & then the regen story as a New Year special, as they did with David Tennant. But I suppose that was beyond their control.

Steven Moffat continues to be the best writer working in TV, with no obvious successor for the job of running Doctor Who. He can stay as long as he likes.
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Gungnir » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:53 am

Hobbituk wrote:If you think it made zero sense, you didn't understand it :)


Now that is more than a touch condescending Hobbi. I expect better of you.

You are seriously telling me that the Doctor would sit there for hundreds of years without finding a solution to the stalemate? Surely he would have found a flow of SOMETHING that he could reverse the polarity of with the sonic in all that time. And that is just one thing that was nonsensical, don't get me started on 'Christmas'.

And the ending with the guest appearances was to mawkish for my tastes - basically a re-hash of the end of 'Goodbye Mr. Chips'. It wasn't all bad. At least it was better than the ridiculous schmaltz-fest that was Tennant's send-off.

But, after the fantastic 50th Anniversary episode, I had higher hopes for Matt Smith's final episode.
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby GlassHouse » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:39 am

Hobbituk wrote:
GlassHouse wrote:Christmas special plot summery. Deus ex Machina !

Yeah OK, so that's nothing new. I can't go into any detail because of fear of spoilers. There is a lot that I like about the new Who. Matt Smith's performance is a lot of fun to watch for one but there's a lot I don't care for too. In this case, the Christmas Special, I don't know, to me it seems like in the old Who, they at least made it seem like they weren't just pulling endings out of their backsides at the last minute. What this show really needs if for the writers to regenerate.


Incorrect use of 'Deus Ex Machina' is quickly becoming a pet hate. That wasn't a Deus Ex Machina. You can't have a Deus Ex Machina with a plot device introduced THREE years before it pays off.


POTENTIAL SPOILER
.
.
.
.
.
.
I wasn't very specific because of not wanting to include spoilers but ....(highlight text)I was referring to how the Dalek fleet was defeated at the very end. I was fairly OK with everything up until that ending and I didn't have much trouble following all the loose ends from previous series being tied up but if that particular thing could happen it wouldn't have been much of a war in the first place, what with an abundance of Time Lords on Gallefrey being killed during the fighting. Yeah, I'm sure there's some half arsed explanation, like that regen was special because the Time Lords gave it the Dr....but if they could do it for him they could have done something similar before.
(end)
And old Who was FAR more guilty of wrapping things up in the last three minutes of the last episode.


I did say "seem". IMO, the Doctor of old "seemed" to use reason more then the new Doctor. Problems didn't just solve themselves - or if they did there was a reason other than just because. But don't read more into that than I intend, it's not so much that the old show was was more realistic but it seems to me that the writers today are just so lazy that they sometimes don't even make the effort to pretend it's realistic. (Jon Hurt even joked about this in the Day of the Doctor when he mocked Tenent and Smith's Doctors for waving their screw drivers around, I don't think he actually said "magic wand", but that's the function of them these days).

I loved the episode though, it was a Fairytale End to the Doctor that may well come to be known as the Fairytale Doctor. A period of Doctor Who that has been right up my street perhaps more than any other.


(my bold) I hope it's The End of the Fairytale Doctor.

I've loved Matt Smith, and I am very enthused about Peter Capaldi, who is one of the very best actors there is any where or when.


Me too.
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Hobbituk » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:49 am

Gungnir wrote:
Hobbituk wrote:If you think it made zero sense, you didn't understand it :)


Now that is more than a touch condescending Hobbi. I expect better of you.


Sorry Gungnir, genuinely, condescension wasn't intended! You did say 'zero sense' though! If you're allowed to be hyperbolic in your criticism, surely I'm allowed to be a little cheeky in my response! :D

You are seriously telling me that the Doctor would sit there for hundreds of years without finding a solution to the stalemate?


Well, yes. He would, if there wasn't one. Which there wasn't. Until Clara found one.

The Doctor has been in many situations without finding an instant solution. Hundreds. Nearly eight hundred, in point of fact.

Sometimes it takes 18 minutes. Or 42 minutes. Or ten weekly episodes. Or three or four hundred years. The length of time denoted by the drama required.

The question is why he didn't just bundle the inhabitants of Christmas Town into the TARDIS, when he eventually got it back, and sod off somewhere else in the Universe with everyone, but now I'm just helping you :)

And the ending with the guest appearances was to mawkish for my tastes - basically a re-hash of the end of 'Goodbye Mr. Chips'.


I think that was a throwback to the Fifth Doctor's regeneration. He had visions of all his companions, even *shudder* Adric, just before he regenerated. And the Tenth Doctor's walkabout was a similar device, of course, although a somewhat more literal re-visitation.

I did wonder if the other purpose of Amy appearing was to imprint the Scottish accent on the new Doctor. RTD wrote a line that didn't make the cut of 'The Christmas Invasion' which referred to Ten's accent having been 'imprinted' on him by Rose, like a newly hatched chick.

In fact the last person The War Doctor spoke to before regeneration was the Northern Accented Clara, and the next Doctor had a... nearly almost... similarly regioned accent.

All that is just a geeky (mostly) uncanonical fan-theory of course, but what else is the internet for? Besides calling things Deus Ex Machinas, obviously.

It wasn't all bad. At least it was better than the ridiculous schmaltz-fest that was Tennant's send-off.


Years later, and being able to assess it a little more objectively that I could at the time (being an emotional wreck, naturally), I do find a lot of that episode to be weak. But only the first half an hour or so (The 'Master Race' stuff), I still think the ending and the walkabout were a triumph. And I still well up at the 'lottery ticket'.
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Hobbituk » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:02 pm

GlassHouse wrote:
Hobbituk wrote:
GlassHouse wrote:Christmas special plot summery. Deus ex Machina !

Yeah OK, so that's nothing new. I can't go into any detail because of fear of spoilers. There is a lot that I like about the new Who. Matt Smith's performance is a lot of fun to watch for one but there's a lot I don't care for too. In this case, the Christmas Special, I don't know, to me it seems like in the old Who, they at least made it seem like they weren't just pulling endings out of their backsides at the last minute. What this show really needs if for the writers to regenerate.


Incorrect use of 'Deus Ex Machina' is quickly becoming a pet hate. That wasn't a Deus Ex Machina. You can't have a Deus Ex Machina with a plot device introduced THREE years before it pays off.


POTENTIAL SPOILER
.
.
.
.
.
.
I wasn't very specific because of not wanting to include spoilers but ....I was referring to how the Dalek fleet was defeated at the very end. I was fairly OK with everything up until that ending and I didn't have much trouble following all the loose ends from previous series being tied up but if that particular thing could happen it wouldn't have been much of a war in the first place, what with an abundance of Time Lords on Gallefrey being killed during the fighting. Yeah, I'm sure there's some half arsed explanation, like that regen was special because the Time Lords gave it the Dr....but if they could do it for him they could have done something similar before.


I do think after the show has been broadcast, anyone reading the thread has only themselves to blame if they get spoilered!

Thanks for the clarification, but that still isn't a Deus Ex Machina. I know I'm being a pedant, but it really isn't.

I suspect the explanation is probably one of scale. There were billions and billions of Daleks on Gallifrey, all attacking and firing on the planet at once from many different angles. They were also fighting a Time War, with many specially adapted techniques for taking down Timelords and TARDISes.etc (see 'Journeys End/Doomsday' compared to 'Bad Wolf/The Parting Of The Ways' - in the latter the Daleks are unable to penetrate the TARDIS forcefield, in the former they're able to burn it with ease). In 'The Time Of The Doctor' there are far less of them (The Great Intelligence later describes the battle as a small skirmish compared to the Time War).

But fair enough if you found that unsatisfying, it's not a Deus Ex Machina though. :)



And old Who was FAR more guilty of wrapping things up in the last three minutes of the last episode.


I did say "seem". IMO, the Doctor of old "seemed" to use reason more then the new Doctor. Problems didn't just solve themselves - or if they did there was a reason other than just because. But don't read more into that than I intend, it's not so much that the old show was was more realistic but it seems to me that the writers today are just so lazy that they sometimes don't even make the effort to pretend it's realistic. (Jon Hurt even joked about this in the Day of the Doctor when he mocked Tenent and Smith's Doctors for waving their screw drivers around, I don't think he actually said "magic wand", but that's the function of them these days).


That's not lazy though, most of the time it's being efficient with the time demands of 45 minute stand-alone episodes compared to four or six or eight episode serials. The lengthy serials suffered far more with those limitations, because they were constantly having to put the Doctor in situations he should have been able to solve in order to create cliffhangers and new peril at the correct intervals. That's why he and his companions were constantly being captured and escaping. Over and over and over.

I loved the episode though, it was a Fairytale End to the Doctor that may well come to be known as the Fairytale Doctor. A period of Doctor Who that has been right up my street perhaps more than any other.


(my bold) I hope it's The End of the Fairytale Doctor.


Well, that's okay, the strength of Doctor Who is in its ability to change and become something new at any time. This has been the Fairytale phase and soon there will be a new phase which might be more to your liking (and perhaps less to mine?). Doctor Who can do that and that's why it's awesome.

But I do think it's worth noting that this phase of Doctor Who has seen our little show become more popular than it has ever been in its history. Just as the Fairytale has been to my taste, apparently it has appealed to the taste of more people than ever too.

Who knows what will happen next, but finding out will be exciting!
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby portia » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:03 pm

Back from the wilds.

I saw the Christmas Special, but not much later, as I was falling asleep.(!)
I think the different transitions between DT and MS made sense as DT didn't want to re-generate, and MS was ready. I liked the way MS was aged. Good Makeup. I liked the END of the time rift, I have never liked that plot element. Even if it was a bit arbitrary.

I liked the look of Capaldi. We'll see about personality.
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Gungnir » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:21 am

GlassHouse wrote: I hope it's The End of the Fairytale Doctor.


I heartily agree. I want Capaldi to be a throwback to Pertwee
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Hobbituk » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:15 am

On the subject of the 'quick regeneration', apart from surprising the audience by subverting expectations, it was probably a good idea because they had already done the big long glowy magical nuclear explosion five minutes earlier. Doing it again might have felt a little bit much.
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Horsie » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:55 pm

I'm late on it but when they posted Night of the Doctor, I fell in love with 8 all over again. I'm hooked on his audios and reading whatever adventures I can get my hands on. Just seeing him back on a screen, in the role, well the whole fandom exploded. Damn Moffat won't listen to US, the fans…the majority wants MORE. A mini series, a spin off "Missing Adventures of the Doctor" something, ANYTHING…Paul is damn brilliant in the role, we need more. And he's up to it. He wants to do it, and they need to do it.

The 50th was a fun story but I think 8 should have been the one to push the button, it would make sense. If you read and hear his stories, he's beaten and battered, emotionally exhausted, he's suffered so much loss in friends - he raised a adopted daughter, who eventually died, his great-grandson,dead, a few companions died…he's fed up and lost…so to me, it makes sense that he would have originally been the one to "destroy" home, screw it, blow it up get it over and done with….then regen and 9 being the PTSD Doctor. there was no need for 8.5…as much as I love John Hurt…

Matt's last ep…it was ok. Loved his era, many many stories were really good. (Vincent!!) I'm sick of Clara's saving the day all the time. I like Jenna, can't stand Clara. I loved the instant regen, it's a shock to his system and well to us. I know I'm going to adore Peter Capaldi. He's gonna be different; I hope, like the others, he'll put a lot of himself into the Doctor. I expected the whole Trenzalore thing to be much more of a big deal than it was. I've put it behind, looking forward to the new stuff.
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby TheWagner » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:18 pm

Gungnir wrote:I understood it but didn't particularly like it. A rather silly story which made absolutely zero sense apart from the various pre-existing threads being pulled together. Can someone please arrange for Moffatt to regenerate as well?

I suspect that Moffat thought that Smith would be there for another season. Moffat made a couple of statements early in 2013 indicating that he expected Smith back, and Smith himself at one point made an off-hand comment about filming a 4th series.

As a result, I think that we got a plot-synopsis instead of a proper telling of a story. My bet is that had Moffat been given a season (or half a season), then he would have re-introduced the 12 Regeneration limit (which never once had been mentioned since the show rebooted!). He also would have had the Smith Doctor realize that he was out of regenerations. The issues about the Silence actually being the Doctor's allies rather than his foes could have come up as a clincher in a story, too, as could have the return of the "crack" in time.

One might say that Moffat should have started earlier - after all, the half-season with Clara really hurt for lack of an over-arching plot - but in a lot of ways, this could not start until the Doctor's had set up the new time streams with an exiled rather than Time Locked Gallifrey.

As it was, the story was a neat idea - I will show you Who I Am - but because Moffat had to ladle so much plot into it, the story got lost.


The 50th, on the other hand, was brilliant. I remember the 20th, and what a crashing disappointment that was. (I am in the camp that holds JNT responsible for killing Doctor Who, not by doing anything, but by not doing anything to modernize what was essentially a 1960's show in technicolour!) This was not disappointing at all. Quite the opposite, it was quite brilliant.


Gungnir wrote:
GlassHouse wrote: I hope it's The End of the Fairytale Doctor.


I heartily agree. I want Capaldi to be a throwback to Pertwee
He won't be. Remember, Doctor Who will never go back to anything like the old show. The Doctor will never be a Hero again: he'll always be a protagonist. Character development rather than plot will drive the stories. The Doctor will advance, reveal himself and progress, which is something that never happened in the Classic Series. (Plot-driven TV was fairly common in the 1960's, but it was basically extinct by the 1980's except for Doctor Who: and it's failure to adapt then is almost certainly why it died then.)

Now, what exactly Capaldi's Doctor will be like, I don't know. He's got a mission (find Gallifrey) and he's been somewhat chastened (having gotten a second chance of the deed that was the basis for all of the Doctor's character development). People are expecting Malcolm Tucker, but I'm thinking we might get something more like an older Peter Wimsey.
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Hobbituk » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:44 am

Nice to see you TW :)

Gungnir wrote:
GlassHouse wrote: I hope it's The End of the Fairytale Doctor.


I heartily agree. I want Capaldi to be a throwback to Pertwee
He won't be. Remember, Doctor Who will never go back to anything like the old show. The Doctor will never be a Hero again: he'll always be a protagonist. Character development rather than plot will drive the stories. The Doctor will advance, reveal himself and progress, which is something that never happened in the Classic Series. (Plot-driven TV was fairly common in the 1960's, but it was basically extinct by the 1980's except for Doctor Who: and it's failure to adapt then is almost certainly why it died then.)


Quite right, forward not backwards that's Doctor Who at its best and most successful. The anniversary year was a slight exception in the sense that the show found time to celebrate itself. An odd thing, a Television programme throwing its own party. But wonderful.

That's why we can't have a mini-season of 8th Doctor stories too. There should only be one Doctor at a time, except in rare circumstances, and we shouldn't spend too much time looking back.

As for whether Capaldi will be like Pertwee, I doubt it, he'll be his own Doctor. But THIS PICTURE and THIS PICTURE did amuse me, and might reassure people hoping for the Pertwee vibe.

Now, what exactly Capaldi's Doctor will be like, I don't know. He's got a mission (find Gallifrey) and he's been somewhat chastened (having gotten a second chance of the deed that was the basis for all of the Doctor's character development). People are expecting Malcolm Tucker, but I'm thinking we might get something more like an older Peter Wimsey.


He certainly won't be as abrasive as some people seem to expect, but neither will Moffat want to waste the eyebrows that made such an impact in the 50th, or the tsunami that is Capaldi letting rip. I think we'll get a more 'difficult' Doctor, less inclined to hug a companion's mother, but he will still be basically a Grandfatherly figure.
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby heliona » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:15 am

Hobbituk wrote:As for whether Capaldi will be like Pertwee, I doubt it, he'll be his own Doctor. But THIS PICTURE and THIS PICTURE did amuse me, and might reassure people hoping for the Pertwee vibe.


I get a 403 error for the second picture. :cry2:
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby TheWagner » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:20 am

Hobbituk wrote:Nice to see you TW :)
Yeah, it's been a while: I stumbled on the link by accident and thought: "What the hell!"

Hobbituk wrote:Quite right, forward not backwards that's Doctor Who at its best and most successful. The anniversary year was a slight exception in the sense that the show found time to celebrate itself. An odd thing, a Television programme throwing its own party. But wonderful.
A lot of shows have had anniversary episodes, sometimes even bringing back departed cast members. This, however, was a bit unique. I did really like the way that they included the prior incarnations of the Doctor. In particular, the "curtain call" was very well done: that could easily have been so sickeningly saccharine that we'd all have been reaching for buckets. Instead, by making it just the Doctor's own dream of returning home, they got to show all of the incarnations lined up together.

The spliced up sequences of the prior incarnations (with a darn good imitation of Hartnell's voice! He never said "Gallifrey," obviously) worked pretty well.

Hobbituk wrote:That's why we can't have a mini-season of 8th Doctor stories too. There should only be one Doctor at a time, except in rare circumstances, and we shouldn't spend too much time looking back.
The other problem is that all of the Doctor's character development stems from the Time War and his living with that. Prior to that, you have… Sherlock Bonds in Space and Time? It also would be tough to insert something in there as it would have to have become inconsequential by the time the Doctor was Eccleston.

Night of the Doctor did suggest to me that McGann could have been a really good Doctor given decent material. ("Enemy Within" needed serious improvement to qualify as indecent material.) However, the time for that came and went, I'm afraid.

Hobbituk wrote:He certainly won't be as abrasive as some people seem to expect, but neither will Moffat want to waste the eyebrows that made such an impact in the 50th, or the tsunami that is Capaldi letting rip. I think we'll get a more 'difficult' Doctor, less inclined to hug a companion's mother, but he will still be basically a Grandfatherly figure.
Hmmm, the Doctor seemed to have pretty prickly relationships with the mothers! Rose's mother eventually grew on him, but he didn't like her at first. Martha's mother openly disliked the Doctor, and their few interactions bordered on unpleasant. His parting words to Donna's mother were not all that "buggy" either!

Regardless of how any future mums get treated (Clara's parents are dead: although I honestly had thought she'd turn out to be River's daughter by the Doctor!), I actually am anticipating more of the "mid-life crisis" Doctor, who has just gotten a new lease on life (figuratively and literally), and who is going to take advantage of the plethora of second chances in front of him.
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Hobbituk » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:31 am

It is nice to see you back here. I was reminiscing about the glory days of the Harry Potter books thread the other day :)

Hmmm, the Doctor seemed to have pretty prickly relationships with the mothers! Rose's mother eventually grew on him, but he didn't like her at first. Martha's mother openly disliked the Doctor, and their few interactions bordered on unpleasant. His parting words to Donna's mother were not all that "buggy" either!

Regardless of how any future mums get treated (Clara's parents are dead: although I honestly had thought she'd turn out to be River's daughter by the Doctor!), I actually am anticipating more of the "mid-life crisis" Doctor, who has just gotten a new lease on life (figuratively and literally), and who is going to take advantage of the plethora of second chances in front of him.


In the latest Doctor Who Magazine, Steven Moffat describes the last two Doctors as being the sort of boyfriends a companion would happily (relatively speaking) take home to meet Mother, and that Capaldi will be different. I think it would be more like the Rose's mum/Ninth Doctor dynamic you mentioned. The Ninth Doctor was one of the 'difficult' Doctors (underpinned as Eccleston's portrayal was by his loss in the Time War) and I think Capaldi will be more like that. They may need to find some way to motivate that difficult-ness though, now that the Doctor is pretty certain the Timelords are alive somewhere.

Not that they're getting rid of the 'family' vibe, the Paternoster gang will be back in Episode 1 of the next season!
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Hobbituk » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:37 am

Shameless double post to say there's a definite Pertwee vibe going on in the Costume department...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfAZ7I9CUAA_8ba.jpg
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Re: New Doctor Who - 50 Years, Still going strong!

Postby Gungnir » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:43 am

Hobbituk wrote:Shameless double post to say there's a definite Pertwee vibe going on in the Costume department...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfAZ7I9CUAA_8ba.jpg


Dunno about Pertwee, more of a coco the clown thing happening, looking at his MASSIVE feet! :shock:
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