Does it bother you when non-LOTR fans discuss it?

Fans of the movies? Love those actors; How about the characters? Come here to discuss all forms of fandom surrounding Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings.

Postby Elwin_Halfelven » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:16 pm

My theater 101 teacher does this and it drives me INSANE! He acts like he's such a huge fan of TTT, brings it up often in class, constantly makes references to it and it makes me MAD! He knows nothing about it. He mixes up the character's names and he doens't know who played who. He says he watches it, like, every week and he claims to have read the books, but he must not have been paying attention. I want to get up in the middle of class and scream, "You do not know Lord of the Rings! I do! If you don't know what you're talking about, then shut up!"<BR><BR>Sorry, I had to vent. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Does this kind of thing happen to anyone else, or am I the only one?
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Postby Ugluk » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:22 pm

Yup, drives me crazy. I hang around with people who have supposedly have seen the movie numerous times (I play LOTR TCG with them, mostly) and hardly ANY of them can pronounce the names. That's what I find the most irritating. And even if I correct them they don't remember. Some of the manglings are AWFUL! <BR>And I can sympathize with the other bit. A few members of my family screw it up (which I swiftly correct) but it drives me cazy.
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Postby Elf-princessButtercup » Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:11 pm

Nope!<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> I'm just happy that they like it! For instance, my mother has seen both FOTR and TT and enjoys them. She's just not crazy about them and face it, you pretty much have to be obsessed to keep all the facts straight. I've read the books two or three times in the past two years and even I forget major plot points from time to time. The book is about 1000 pages!!<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0> One of my best friends lists LOTR as some of her favourite movies but still mixes up Merry and Pippin from time to time. It's pretty easy to do. <BR><BR>And what do you consider to constitute LOTR fans or non-fans? My friends have seen the movies and LOVE them but have yet to read the books. When we discuss characters and themes they obviously base what they know from the movies and often I disagree with them because the book showed it a bit differently but then they get mad at ME because they don't want me to spoil the book for them (they're going to read it once they've seen ROTK). Would you consider them to be non-fans?<BR><BR>I think unless you want to alienate your friends and acquaintences from this wonderful story, I'd be patient with them and their mix-ups. Protective, obsessive fans like us might make them turn away from LOTR in spite. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif"border=0> At least they enjoy it and are willing to talk about it with us...probably largely due to PJ's adaptation of them.<BR><BR>~Buttercup~
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Postby Mecyn_OrcSlayer » Thu Nov 06, 2003 3:19 am

<BR>That's an excellent argument Buttercup and truly keeping with the spirit of these forums. When we appreciate a work of art such as the Lord of the Rings, it should make us happy that so many other people are reading and/or discussing the story.<BR><BR>"I think unless you want to alienate your friends and acquaintences from this wonderful story, I'd be patient with them and their mix-ups. Protective, obsessive fans like us might make them turn away from LOTR in spite."<BR><BR>I could not have put it better myself. Yes I can understand sometimes that people pretend to like something because it is a fad - but it is people like us who come to the message boards and share our thoughts which propagates the Lord of the Rings mythos.<BR><BR>And Buttercup - I really hope your friends enjoy reading the Lord of the Rings.
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Postby Shieldmaiden_pippin » Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:51 pm

yes...it does irritate me. My dad still holds to the believe that the Wizards are called "the greay" "the white" and so on, because of the color of their hair. I've tried to correct him......<BR><BR>And mom used to say "Gandal" ALL the time...and dad still gets the names mixed up. He still can't tell Boromir from Aragorn. AND I HAVE TO LIVE WITH THESE PEOPLE! Everyday all day...<BR><BR>good point though, buttercup. My mom HAS read all three books (including the hobbit and the silimarillion) and is MUCH better now about names and stuff. But I still battle with my dad about things...he pretty much refuses to read the books...I'll have to trick him some how...<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Pip
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Postby Legessa_of_Gondor » Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:09 pm

How can you mix up Boromir and Aragorn?<BR><BR>Boromir has a massive shield on his back half the time!
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Postby Elwin_Halfelven » Thu Nov 06, 2003 5:36 pm

I guess you can't expect everyone to know LOTR inside and out. I have pretty much given up on my mom. She'll never get it with Star Wars either. (I keep having to remind her who Obi Wan Kenobi is.)<BR><BR>But it's the people who profess to know a lot about Lotr and say they've seen the movies a million times, but still can't pronounce the names of the characters that drive me crazy.<BR><BR>I don't know how I would really classify a fan. To me, in order to be hard-core, you have to have read the books before seeing the movie. I wouldn't consider a person a fan if they never read the books and weren't planning to.
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Postby Elf-princessButtercup » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:16 pm

I guess that is where I would disagree, though it boils down to specifics. There are essentially two complete versions of LOTR--Tolkien's (the original) and Jackson's (the adaptation). Pushing all purist/revisionist armuments aside, the stories so far are <b>basically</b> the same and contain the same major characters and basic themes. My friends who haven't read the books are most definately fans of the movie and they love the story of a little hobbit named Frodo out to destroy an evil Ring and the other heros all trying to do their share in fighting Sauron. <BR><BR>You're right in saying they aren't fans of <b>Tolkien</b> because they haven't read any of his works, but they do enjoy his story. My friends (along with, I'm sure, many other non-reading movie fans) are aware Jackson did not write these stories, but Tolkien. I can also understand where you're coming from; know-it-alls on <b>any</b> subject can be very annoying. However, people who have just seen the movies should be able to discuss the story, and if things seem wrong, it is probably due to some changes made in the movies. Yet their viewpoints are just as valid since they're basing their ideas on what they have seen. The basic ideas and 'lessons' LOTR teaches still shines out in the movies for them and is a huge attraction. And seeing how my friends are already hard-core fans of LOTR the story, I'm sure they'll become hardcore fans of the book and Tolkien's writing. <BR><BR>I do think being bugged over pronounciation of names is rather extreme (is it really that important?) Many of the names are in an invented language and it's kinda tricky to figure out how to say them unless you have read the Appendices in the back concerning pronounciation (ie.I was one who said "Seleborn" instead of "Keleborn" ). Heck, English is my first language and I still can't speak it properly. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> <BR><BR>What I'm getting at, it's not worth the aggravation to you to get flustered over little discrepancies in the facts of a fictional novel. If someone is being arrogant in their erroneous discussions (which I guess wouldn't really be discussions at all) then just ignore them. <BR><BR><BR><i>How can you mix up Boromir and Aragorn?</i><BR><BR>Not exactly sure, but I see it happen ALL the time. I don't think most people pay attention to the shield thing so, you have a fellowship made up of mostly distinct non-human characters--a dwarf, an elf, wizard, and 4 short, cute guys (who get mixed up as well) and then two humans who both have short, brownish hair, both often have brooding expressions on their face and both fight with swords (at least the elf has a bow and the wizard a staff and pointy hat to make them more easily discernable).<BR><BR>Sorry, mods, I know this doesn't fit in the typical "swooning" purpose of this forum, but (as you can tell) this is something I find important to answer to.<BR><BR>~Buttercup~
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Postby lady_of_legolas » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:33 pm

i do get annoyed with lots of swooners at my school who havnt read the books at my school, half of them dont even know the characters proper names, but go around acting like they're complete LOTR experts! especially if theyre not prepared to even listen to your polite suggestions of correctments. i am glad that there are lots of people who like the movies but it is annoying when they dont understand the importance of some things because they havnt read the books (especially when im in the mood for a TTT rant about completly unnessesary, outrageous changes, and all the response is a 'oh, but who cares if faramir was evil in the movie?'<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0>)
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Postby Elf-princessButtercup » Thu Nov 06, 2003 8:14 pm

Well, why should they care? They don't know what he's like in the book so they really can't understand where we're coming from or what we're talking about. If I hadn't read the books but loved the TT movie, I wouldn't want to hear a puristy rant either. What the reader would see as "wrong" the non-reader may just love, so the complaints sound foolish to them. One of my friends, thanks to one such rant, found that her favourite part of the movie--elves at Helms Deep--is not in the book, much to her disappointment. I think it's OK to note differences between the books and the films, but people may become annoyed when these are used to "correct" their ideas about LOTR. I tried this once when a friend and I got in a debate about whether or not Grima truly loved Eowyn or was simply lusting after her. She became very annoyed when I threw out the "well, in the book" argument.<BR><BR>I just don't like to see such a special story divide people over some of the finer details. The movies are a huge success, and wouldn't be if not for the non-readers (I hate referring them as such, it makes it sound as if they don't read anything), and this has people excited about the story AND the hype. Movies are just as much about the event of seeing it as the actual content itself, so even the most casual of fans will be wanting to discuss all things LOTR because (it seems) everyone else is. The Event of movie-going is an odd form of community-building in our society that is increasingly becoming more solitary and it would be neat to think a story based off of Tolkien's novel could help bring people together, even if only for a short while. Being picky about every detail (even the major ones!<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>) will only drive away those who might become seriously interested in the books. <BR><BR>Once ROTK has come out onto DVD and the hype finally fades those who sincerly wish to become better acquainted with Tolkien will be the ones remaining and those "experts" who really don't care will go on to something else. And those who don't want to read the books (some just don't like reading 1000 page books) but continue to love the movies could be dubbed as "movie experts". Some people will continue to get things wrong maybe because they just aren't good at remembering particular facts (in the way I can't ever remember dates for History tests<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif"border=0>). <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> For them, I think as long as they understand the general idea it should be fine. Just because they can't get the names straight or understand all the complexities and subtext of the story, doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to love LOTR or consider it as their favourite story.<BR><BR>Really, I understand what you guys are saying because I struggle with things similar to that too (just not related to LOTR) but I think it is very important to see where the other person is coming from and how they view and deal with movies and/or books. We're not dealing with a religion, philosophy or other real-worldview here, but a fictional novel, so it's OK if they get things a little wrong. And as I've said earlier, no one likes a know-it-all, but it does cut both ways. Saying that, I sound like one, don't I? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif"border=0> <BR><BR><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>~Buttercup~
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Postby theduffster » Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:48 pm

I don't know hardly anyone whose a big fan, other than my 20-year old daughter. I would love to have LOTR-related discussions with people face-to-face!
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Postby Legolas_Ringelf » Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:53 am

I don't have that problem but it must be frustrating!
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Postby evenstar1 » Sun Nov 09, 2003 1:55 pm

Its annoying when my friend who has never read the books but owns every book by JRRT but does not read them. I am much poorer then him so I have very few editions an mostly ones I had in high school. He doesnt know what he is missing . He should pick one an read it or just give them to me.
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Postby Teleperion1234 » Sun Nov 09, 2003 2:19 pm

Seems to me that your friend needs to pass the books on.<BR><BR>An no it does'nt really bother me. I love to discuss The Silmarillion an there is'nt a movie out based opon that...................yet.<BR><BR><BR>Teleperion1234
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Postby the_elf_friend » Sun Nov 09, 2003 3:38 pm

It doesn't bother me that much unless I'm actually watching the movie with a friend. I did that once and I swear I'll never do it again. My friends were all saying how cute Gollum was, and how hot Legolas was. I must have been annoying to them too, because I dragged along a full set of the books <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif"border=0>, showing them exactly which parts Arwen appeared in ("there was no darn dream!"<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>, moaning about the over done Aragorn-Arwen-Eowyn love triangle ("he marries Arwen!"<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> That one was bad, because one of my friends got mad at me because I wrecked it for her. How can you not know about Aragorn and Arwen? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-rolleyes.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Other than that, it doesn't really bother me <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby eLwEnaReDhEl » Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:11 pm

<i>That one was bad, because one of my friends got mad at me because I wrecked it for her. How can you not know about Aragorn and Arwen? </i><BR><BR>Well if you haven't read the books, after watching TTT it's obvious that there is something weird between Aragorn and Eowyn, and it appears that Arwen is going to Valinor, so it isn't a stretch to believe that Aragorn is going to marry Eowyn.<BR><BR>If you liked the movie then you can be a fan. There are different degrees of fandom, but think about it this way: Would you rather have your teacher telling you about it in a good way or insulting it infront of you? Next time he mentions it, challenge what he says, or offer a better example. Let him know you like it, so maybe he'll pay more attention next time and won't look too stupid when he calls Galadriel Eowyn by mistake.
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Postby Ugluk » Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:06 am

I'm not mad at them, it's just irritating.
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Postby $mAug_dRagYn » Sun Nov 16, 2003 1:44 pm

It makes me very very angry!<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif"border=0><BR><BR>*insert Marvin the Martian themse music*<BR><BR><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0>
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Postby eLwEnaReDhEl » Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:04 pm

LOL!!!
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Postby $mAug_dRagYn » Mon Nov 17, 2003 12:40 am

<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-devil.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>In that order.
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Postby Sunshine_10 » Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:56 am

Yes. It does bother me...friends talk like they know what they are talking about, and they don't even like...dare I say...LOTR...they talk about how much they know and I just think its about how much they don't know...the only reason they talk about it is because it gets them attention...hahahahaha...thats a laugh....but then I say something to them and they give me this long stare...that have no clue what I am talking about but the people they are talking to do..so that kinda puts em on the stop and fixes everything <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> thats not to mean is it? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR>*sunshine*<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Elf-princessButtercup » Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:39 pm

I guess one of the main reasons I don't have a problem with my friends throwing out theories that are contradictory to what (I think) Tolkien writes is they acknowledge that what they say is based off of the world in the movies, not the books.<BR><BR>But I still don't let the "obvious mistakes" bother me. I really don't care. LOTR is a collection of great but FICTIONAL books and movies, so it doesn't disturb my moral centre (lol) or anything when they get something wrong. If they believe that they know everything there is about Tolkien when they confuse Boromir and Aragorn I let them live in their delusions with a smile and quick refocusing of attention onto something much more appealing. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>~Buttercup~
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Postby Ulugz » Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:59 am

I'm just happy to see more people interested in high fantasy again. The books <i>are</i> complex for the first time reader (except the Hobbit perhaps) so mistakes are to be expected. P.J.'s version may not be as true to Tolkien's words as many would like, but if the movie has inspired people to pick up the books and read them at all, I say YA-HEY!and even Yay Harry Hay! Even the movie version cannot be memorized in only one or two viewings, and many cannot afford to go to the movies three to five nights a week. So be paitent with the LoTR newbies, at least they are showing an interest.<BR>(So many people I work with just shrug it off as "Oh, Fantasy, it's not <i>real</i> literature." As if Danielle Steel is...)
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Postby Kosomot-V-Gothmog » Sun Dec 07, 2003 10:02 am

Yes, If you have not read the books I think it is unfair to <BR>knock something in which you have no knowledge in. For example it<BR>has been said JRR smoked grass in other threads or was taking LSD<BR>while writing the LOTR. This is just Absurd and not really that amusing. So in the end I would say if you don't have anything positive<BR>to say about what I consider the author of the most complex series<BR>of literature ever written. Indeed it is moronic to speak even mildly<BR>negitive about Tolkien, Not only on a site dedicated to his works,also speaking<BR>derogatory about someone who is passed away.<BR><BR>Kosomot
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Postby lglfan2002 » Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:06 am

I am still reading LOTR and I love it. What I hate is when people who have only seen the movies think they know everything about the story and they talk like they're LOTR literate when they've got no clue. I know several people like this and it's hard not to tell them to shut up and read a book or two then they can say they know loads about LOTR. I only talk about the book up to the point I know. After that I hush up because I know better.
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Postby Galenmir » Mon Dec 08, 2003 3:40 pm

I tend not to be annoyed by the new crop of LOTR fans who have not yet achieved the proud rank of "Tolkien geek". As has been mentioned, at least they like it, even though they might not have made the effort to more fully appreciate the material.<BR><BR>Of course, I am occassionaly given over to slightly malicious acts, such as when my friends who haven't read the books asked me how ROTK is going to end. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-devil.gif"border=0> I spun an incredibly depressing tale in which nearly everybody died a horrible and tragic death. And they believed every single word! It was so enjoyable. <BR><BR>Don't get annoyed - get sarcastic. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>
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Postby niphredilmaiden » Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:59 pm

oh man I hate it<BR><BR>Well not hate, hate - it just irritates me most gently to madness. <BR><BR>One of my friends has read the books, watched the movies and is in love with the actors. For some reason I feel that I am a bigger fan than her because I have a passion for the books that is stronger than the movie. So when she is talking about TTT or FOTR, I get kinda angry at the conversation. When she brags about going to Wellington and to the Embassy I get agro and think, "You just like LOTR, I love it. Shut up." It's silly, but I can't help it! <BR>I think she just makes me mad and a little jelous, because I am quite happy to talk about the movie to anyone else, and practically estatic talking about the books to anyone I meet.<BR><BR><BR>Well at least I don't mind correcting names and explaining stuff to the LOTR 'don't-know-much-but-love-orlando-and-viggo' fans, as I have to do all the time to my friends and family <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby Lady_Myrrdin » Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:17 am

I just like sitting back and listening to folks who haven't read the books spout off. My favorite is overhearing 2 coworkers one day. One was correcting the other saying Gollum was born just like the orcs were, out of the ground in a birth sack. I busted out laughing and couldn't stop. They turned around with the "what's so funny?" kind of face. I just shook my head. Then the other coworker rolled his eyes and said "Oh yeah, that's right, you read the books you think you know everything."<BR><BR>But in a way, I also feel kind of honored because a lot of my friends and coworkers will ask me about the books when they are confused about a particular aspect of the movies.
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Postby gwindor_skooter » Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:46 pm

It drives me crazy not only when people dont know it but when they varlly see the movie and say lord of the rings sucks, like last night i was searching on the web and ther was a site that said " top 50 reasons to hate lotr" and it said total crap like "lotr stole orcs from the blizzard game warcraft" and "in the scene in fellowship the hobbits get stabed by the ring wraiths then come alive again 2 sec.s later"and"the one ring was forged to fit saurons finger but can also fit frodos, do they live in some magical world were gold can strech?!?" IT MADE ME SO MAD!!! I WANTED TO FIND THAT GUY AND... AND...AND... DO SOMETHING REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD!
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Postby Kosomot-V-Gothmog » Wed Dec 10, 2003 3:10 pm

I wouldn't even let it bother you people. Just like when I was in high<BR>school in 1980 and people asked me what I was reading, a book of a foreign language,what the hell does Silmarillion mean? I was what was called<BR>HOOKED ON THE BOOKS! I lent it to a few people whose level of intellect was so low they couldn't make it past the first few pages<BR>I laughed! <BR>Honestly I had to read it a few times to get the overall meaning,<BR>put if you can honestly understand the entire series of books,<BR>Your an above average intelligent human!<BR> My girlfriend in high school read the first few pages and said;<BR>"this makes no Danm Sense, I can't understand a danm thing this<BR>book is about!".<BR> I laughed, and told her to read The tale of Turin, and Beren<BR>and Luthien, and forget about the what she read at the front of the <BR>book, and just read those chapters without reference and I guarantee<BR>you'll never put it down until you figure the entire book out!<BR> I was right, she ended up reading all of them, but said the hobbit<BR>was kinda a kids book, I said it was dumb to her because there was no love story!<BR>So in the end cut the Dummys of the world who critize and think they know it all a break, not everyone has the guts to read the entire<BR>book before bashing it, and aren't the type to know fine literature<BR>when they read it, Better for us because their is more room on these<BR>boards for us! <BR> Long live the PURISTS!!!!!!!<BR><BR>Kosomot
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Kosomot-V-Gothmog
Citizen of Imladris
 
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