Legolas with a girlfriend?

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Postby MithLuin » Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:22 am

Doni, you are right, there is no passage of not-marrying in evil times. I have no idea why I tied that up in my head to the child thing.


But in the Athrabeth, isn't the whole point that Finrod's brother can't marry the mortal girl because there is a war going on, and the Noldor don't marry during war? I have never opened Morgoth's Ring or Peoples of Middle Earth, so I am sorry if this reference is confused.

I think we can conclude: Legolas was not married at the time of the Quest, because none of the other members of the Fellowship were married. Both Aragorn and Sam had girlfriends waiting for them, but no one was married.

Legolas was not married (and then widowed) prior to the Quest, because that would mark him with sorrow, and he is not so marked.

Legolas did not marry between the Quest and leaving for Valinor, because the event that allowed him to part with Middle Earth was the death of Aragorn. If Legolas had married, his marriage would be a much more important relationship that his friendship with King Elessar, and would serve to tie him to Middle Earth. (Of course, any hypothetical 'wife' would have taken ship with him, but his desire to build a ship would be lessened, I think).

Legolas may have married after reaching Tol Eressea/ Valinor. Oh, and Gimli, Bilbo and Frodo do not actually go to Valinor - they just go to Tol Eressea.

So, to get back on topic ;), there is no room for Book-Legolas to have a wife, or even a girlfriend, in 'The Lord of the Rings'. Any movie love interest would have to be wholly invented, and a significant change. So, if you are going to change things drastically anyway... why not make Legolas hook up with Eowyn? (I almost wrote Eomer, oops!) In the TE, there is no time given to Eowyn's relationship with Faramir. Switching her to be with Legolas wouldn't take that much. All you would have to do is throw in a brief scene after Aragorn abruptly tells her to get lost before the Paths of the Dead. Eowyn walks off looking crushed, and Legolas says something comforting to her, hinting that they will meet again in Minas Tirith. She looks a bit hopeful, and then the movie progresses as before, with Gimli and Legolas stopping Aragorn before he takes the paths of the dead. Then, after the Battle of the Pelennor, when Aragorn dismisses the Dead and Pippin finds Merry, Legolas can find Eowyn. At the coronation, instead of standing next to Faramir smiling, she can be standing next to Legolas. Aragorn can say something like "I'm happy for you", and then Legolas can look over at where Arwen is standing.

See how easy that is? Of course, that leaves Faramir dying and/or miserable, but oh well.
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Postby Donisiliel » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:54 pm

Poor Faramir. :'( However, I've always said that I can't understand how Éowyn didn't fall for Leggy instead of Aragorn. :P

Finrod's brother didn't marry Andreth because she was mortal. He did not wish for the pain and bitter parting that would come with her death, but would rather remember her as she was in life when he loved her.

Aurelin, looking in the "Athrabeth," I did find one line that says the Elves would not had wed during times of war. Finrod says: "This is time of war, Andreth, and in such days the Elves do not wed or bear child;, but prepare for death -- or flight."

*sigh* Tolkien didn't seem to want to make these things easy for us, did he? :roll:

LalaithUrwen wrote:The only way I can see the addition of a girlfriend not ruining the current movies would be for her to be happily back in Mirkwood awaiting his return--perhaps the only scenes with her being a parting scene between her and Legolas, a pining scene while he's away fighting Orliphaunts and such, and a welcome-home scene.


I still think that would have been too much of an addition to the story and would not have liked it's effect on Legolas. However, I would have liked to have seen a scene of Legolas being welcomed home by the Elves. They could have put a female Elf in such a scene without making it necessary that she be his girlfriend, but I think the inclusion of her would have been a nice suggestion to the audience that perhaps Legolas does have a love back home (not this girl, but someone else). With this idea of mine, I'm throwing out the window what we have just said about him probably not being married or in love during this time period because I think it would be sweet if he did have an Elf maiden waiting for him. :wink: I also would have liked to see a scene like this because in the movies as they are now, there is not much personal interaction between Legolas and the other Elves in the story. I would have liked to see development of that side of Leggy's character.

~Doni
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Postby Aurelin » Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:53 pm

Oh, and Gimli, Bilbo and Frodo do not actually go to Valinor - they just go to Tol Eressea.

But the laws of Valinor applie there too, so they did die and go from there to Mandos.

The Legolas-Eowyn thing would have been crazy but it would not look too out of place if we do not take into account the book. In the book there is the part when Legolas speaks of Eowyn after Aragorn had told her not to go with him to the Paths of how grievous it was to see her kneeling before Aragorn, etc. In the movie I always thought interesting to see that you can read the compassion for Eowyn and something that could have indicated a stonger relationship, had indeed the lovestory between them put in the ROTK. It is him who first sees Eowyn trying to race to Theoden as Gandalf "does his magic on him" (more showing his acute senses more maybe but it if you had to turn it to a benefit of a love-story, you could maybe use it), he and Gimli stand with Eowyn on the open space before the doors to Edoras while everyone else is on the steps, overlooking Theodon banishing Grima. Then his look at the TTT EE when Eowyn pleads not to be sent to the caves with Aragorn, when she indeed does go in there and past Legolas, his looks shows that he knows what she feels.
They are all quite unsignificant but would work in favor of MithLuin's proposed solution.
Aurelin, looking in the "Athrabeth," I did find one line that says the Elves would not had wed
during times of war.

*a double sigh*
I also would have liked to see a scene like this because in the movies as they are now, there is not much personal interaction between Legolas and the other Elves in the story. I would have liked to see development of that side of Leggy's character.

That indeed. They could also have not cut the Arwen-Legolas good-bye in FOTR. For me, the welcoming home would not have worked, I don't know why, maybe because we never see it in the books, or that that would mean that PJ had to create Mirkwood and since we are not familiar with the place, it would have looked strange.
More interaction in Lorien and with Haldir, would have been nice.

About the Andreth-Aegnor and possible Legolas-Eowyn relationship. I have no idea now where I read that, it might have been some view expressed in some site or by Chr. Tolkien, or maybe JRR. But I read something that pointed out that the three marriages of Edain and Eldar were of an Eldar woman and an Edain man. There was said that it may have been that the Elven men could not let themselves marry a woman of Men, could not be ready for the sacrifice that the deed would mean. Since I don't remember who said it, it does not have to have any truth to it but it is notable that only women of the Eldar would marry Men.


:roll: Aurelin :roll:
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Postby MithLuin » Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:34 pm

Here is the quote from the Arthabeth more fully. I nicked it from a post in Books:
"'Alas!' said Finrod. 'I fear the truth will not satisfy thee. The Eldar have one kind, and ye another; and each judges the others by themselves - until they learn, as do few. This is time of war, Andreth, and in such days the Elves do not wed or bear child; but prepare for death - or for flight. Aegnor has no trust (nor have I) in this siege of Angband that it will last long; and then what will become of this land? If his heart ruled, he would have wished to take thee and flee far away, east or south, forsaking his kin, and thine. Love and loyalty hold him to his. What of thee to thine? Thou hast said thyself that there is no escape by flight within the bounds of the world.'
'For one year, one day, of the flame I would have given all: kin, youth, and hope itself: adaneth I am,' said Andreth.
'That he knew,' said Finrod; ' and he withdrew and did not grasp what lay to his hand: elda he is. For such barters are paid for in anguish that cannot be guessed, until it comes, and in ignorance rather than in courage the Eldar judge that they are made.
'Nay, adaneth, if any marriage can be between our kindred and thine, then it shall be for some high purpose of Doom. Brief it will be and hard at the end. Yea, the least cruel fate that could befall would be that death should soon end it.'" --"Morgoth's Ring", 'Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth'


Finrod is so kind and cruel - wise indeed, and sad. Poor guy :(

I do not think that it is impossible for a male elf to marry a human female. It would just be unlikely that a high doom would call for it. If, for some strange reason, Eowyn were heir to the King of Rohan, than perhaps they would have to let her marry whomever she loved so that there could be a King. Completely off-topic, but this would of course imply the death of Eomer, unless the coronet on Eowyn's head (and lack of anything on Eomer's head) was supposed to be significant in the movie. But anyway, Rohan having a king is not 'some high purpose'. It would be more like, the son or grandson of Legolas and Eowyn would grow up to be somebody special and defeat evil in a unique child-of-a-mixed-marriage way.

The key, though, is hard at the end. For elves and men have different fates, and will be permanently sundered by death. Arwen will never see her father again, but Legolas would lose his bride to permanent death (no hereafter to share). A rough fate, as Finrod guesses. And poor girl! All alone...
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Postby Donisiliel » Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:53 am

I was just being silly and speaking from my own preference of Legolas over Aragorn when I said I didn't understand how Éowyn did fall for Legolas. ;) Yes, I agree that it would have only been under very unusual circumstances that they would have fallen in love or married.

You're right, Aurelin, that it would have been strange if PJ had taken us to Mirkwood at the end of the movies just to show us Legolas returning home. Before I had seen RotK, I wondered if PJ was going to show Legolas leaving Middle-earth at the same time as Frodo left. Such a scene would have fit well if the movie had been done that way.

Hey, do you think that if PJ gets to make the Hobbit, he'll give Legolas a small part in it? I don't think that Legolas should do too much, or he'd steal the show, but a little cameo of him would be nice. :D

~Doni
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Postby Aurelin » Thu Aug 19, 2004 5:07 pm

He could be one of the drunken guards! =:) Just kidding! He could be beside Thranduil when Thorin is brought before the King and in the Battle of the Five Armies too. I think that if indeed all the rights stuff gets settled and PJ does make the Hobbit, the popularity of Legolas will make it quite possible that he would be put in as a cameo.
Before I had seen RotK, I wondered if PJ was going to show Legolas leaving Middle-earth at the same time as Frodo left. Such a scene would have fit well if the movie had been done that way.

It would have been so great to see but I would have settled for the singing in Ithilien. I guess they wanted to end with the same ending as the book and not the appendices. I think we have to be glad PJ did not chuck Legolas along with the-I-am-not-supposed-to-be-here-Celeborn to leave with the same ship as Frodo to tie up the ends.
It would be more like, the son or grandson of Legolas and Eowyn would grow up to be somebody special and defeat evil in a unique child-of-a-mixed-marriage way.

Though of course diluted down by many more generations, the child did come to be in Eomer and his wife Lothiriel of Dol Amroth.


:roll: Aurelin :roll:
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Postby Alata*~*DaughterOfEowyn » Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:15 pm

That's weird. I was thinking of an Eowyn/Legolas relationship. I was actually going to write a fanfiction...

AND I can't decide who's best...Arwen or Eowyn...it's depressing.

Anyway, Leggy's girlfriend would be beautiful, smart, intelligent...oh wait, that's me, gosh :oops:
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Postby legolas_is_mineOB » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:53 pm

Then half the world would boycott the films maybe? :lol: That's SO not cool, and I am quite happy to have one Orlando Bloom film [actually pretty much any film] without a love interest. Leaves room for me you see.

The closest thing would be Gimli and that's SO not like...you know, yeah. Or something. I kinda prefer that Tolkien left Legolas alone. PJ too. With the whole Aragorn/Arwen thing and various other relationships, they were enough in my opinion. So yay!

--Lim
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Oh my gosh!

Postby Ennordil » Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:03 pm

You with that Orli pic of him writing, WHERE did you get it!
I have GOT GOT GOT to know, oh my gosh, isn´t he just the cutest thing you ever saw?

I could eat him up!!!
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Postby Donisiliel » Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:08 pm

Ennordil, I found my pic here.

~Doni
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Postby Aiediel » Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:36 pm

Legolas having a girlfriend? Out of the question! But seeing all the Orlando/Leggy fangirls dropping dead from shock would be priceless! Wait, I'm an Orlando/Leggy fangirl! :nono:
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Postby ningloreth » Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:31 pm

Hello

I found this thread through Google and was interested in your speculations about Legolas and Eowyn because I've used similar ideas in my fan fiction (posted at Open Scrolls Archive).

All you would have to do is throw in a brief scene after Aragorn abruptly tells her to get lost before the Paths of the Dead. Eowyn walks off looking crushed, and Legolas says something comforting to her, hinting that they will meet again in Minas Tirith.


That's how I get them together, in The Real Thing, though I have Aragorn telling her to get lost when she gives him the goblet after Helm's Deep and she staggers outside and sees Legolas in his cloak...

In the movie I always thought interesting to see that you can read the compassion for Eowyn and something that could have indicated a stonger relationship, had indeed the lovestory between them put in the ROTK. It is him who first sees Eowyn trying to race to Theoden as Gandalf "does his magic on him" (more showing his acute senses more maybe but it if you had to turn it to a benefit of a love-story, you could maybe use it),


This is when Legolas falls in love with her, as she slips through his fingers, in My bow shall sing with your sword.

Then his look at the TTT EE when Eowyn pleads not to be sent to the caves with Aragorn, when she indeed does go in there and past Legolas, his looks shows that he knows what she feels


I'm working on this at the moment, but I want to include Legolas seeing Eowyn and Faramir in the House of Healing and (since my stories are movieverse) I'll have to wait until the EE ROTK comes out.
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Postby NimrodelSong » Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:08 pm

Donisiliel wrote:Hey, do you think that if PJ gets to make the Hobbit, he'll give Legolas a small part in it? I don't think that Legolas should do too much, or he'd steal the show, but a little cameo of him would be nice. :D
~Doni


Doni - You're not kidding, Legolas would steal the show! :lol: He would for me, anyway!:D And after reading Orlando on the subject of playing Legolas again, I think he'd do it in a heartbeat. :)

I know, I'm way behind the times; I didn't catch up to the last part of this thread until today. :oops: Interesting discussion.

~Nim~
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Postby Luthriel_Greenleaf » Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:41 pm

Hey everyone!
Sorry its been so long, I got caught up in school.
AurelinTurner is doing well. He's directing our drama play. Turner is going to be a director. My movies will beat his someday (I to hope to become a director someday)

I absolutly hate high school!!!!! It sucks!!!

Hey you guys should check out www.theargonath.cc

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Postby orlis_girl_02 » Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:51 pm

As mentioned by others wouldnt have bothered me but would have been odd what with Aragorn n Arwen, but I wasn't available for filming so all you lucky gals got to imagine yourselves, where as I get the real thing!!!!!
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Postby Dad-human » Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:25 am

It would have wrecked the film. Why? Because then their story would be the most interesting thing going on and nobody would be thinking about the real story.
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Postby Isilwen_Inglorin » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:47 am

Truely it would have ruined the film.



But I was just thinking,what about an elf named Isilwen.
Blond hair,green eyes, and fiercely protective of Legoals? :whistle:

I think that might be O.K. :)
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Postby telcontarian » Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:52 am

I always felt sorry for Legolas, 'cause Tolkien never mentioned him having a mate. I too think that Legolas having a girlfriend would have ruined the film, 'cause let's face it: Aragorn and Arwen's reunion was a real tear-jerker, and two unions would have just been too much, lovely as it would have been, I'm sure.

-*-Tari-*-
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Postby pichuchuchu » Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:19 pm

I dont thing it would be a good idea to make legolas to have a girl friend cause all those orlando fans would be so dissapointed that he was tooking!





:pull:
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Postby Luthriel_Greenleaf » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:13 am

Didn't this thread disappear?
I believe that it was good that Legolas didn't have a girlfriend in the movie. I must admit, I would have been angry.
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Postby earthdragon » Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:53 am

I think it would have been kinda weird, like ok how would she appear in the movie anyway. The movie isnt about Legolas's(did i say that right) home life. Besides it doesnt like fit the character.
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Postby Ingold » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:13 am

Legolas has no time for girls hes a fighter :horse:

How do they expect him to kill orcs plus have a girlfriend?
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Postby DARKastheRAIN » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:13 pm

Fate wouldn't suffer Legolas to have a mortal girlfriend.
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Postby Mrs. Haldir » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:31 am

I can't picture Legolas with a mate. In my opinion, he seems more like the type who would live his years as a bachelor rather than binding himself to a female.
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Postby sairah » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:53 pm

Ok, I know that I am new here and I really dont mean to offend.
But I am indeed an Aragorn/Legolas shipper.
<3
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Postby Boromir ROCKS » Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:42 pm

Legolas can't have a girlfriend.. Only a boyfriend.
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Postby karnna » Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:05 am

an Elf girlfriend??? I dont think so it's better that way. Gimli as his bestfriend is enough. Imagine Gimli tagging along with him and him with a chick. That wont work.
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Postby Hiril Elfwraith » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:25 pm

Boromir ROCKS wrote:Legolas can't have a girlfriend.. Only a boyfriend.


I say, I resemble that remark!
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Postby Swordsman_Of_The_Tower » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:00 pm

Hiril Elfwraith wrote:
Boromir ROCKS wrote:Legolas can't have a girlfriend.. Only a boyfriend.


I say, I resemble that remark!


I don't see it. Either that or my Gaydar needs an upgrade :D


Maybe that explains why I'm single still....................oh nevermind :D
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Postby Galin » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:05 am

Just to note it, Tolkien also wrote (notes to NKE 'neter, kanat, enek'), author's note 1: 'C.E. ? netthi. C.E. tth > Q., T. tt; S. þþ > þ. nette meant 'girl approaching the adult' (in her 'teens': the growth of Elvish children after birth was little if at all slower than that of the children of Men). The Common Eldarin stem (wen-ed) wendé 'maiden' applied to all stages up to the fully adult (until marriage).'

JRRT (colour change for emphasis here), from Vinyar Tengwar 47, texts generally dated 1967-70

Which is quite late in any event :)
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