TTT, Book 3 Chapter 3: THE URUK-HAI

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TTT, Book 3 Chapter 3: THE URUK-HAI

Postby Birch_Tree » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 pm

Welcome to 2010 and the start of the revival for the VTSG!

The chapter starts with pippin recounting their capture and the death of Boromir. Pippin listens to the Orcs arguing among themselves, it become apparent that the Orcs were from two or three different tribes.

They argued wither to kill the Hobbits or let them live. One claimed “they're a cursed nuisance, and we're in a hurry”. But a third Orc said in a deep growl 'kill all but NOT the halflngs; they are to be brought back ALIVE as quickly as possible. That's my orders.'. Another claimed they made their way from the Mines to revenge their folk. He wished to kill them and head back north.

The argument evolved into which way to head, Grishnakh a Orc with a evil voice wanted to take them to Lugburz. But Ugluk the leader of the Uruk-hai commanded to return to Isengard by the shortest route. Grishnakh questioned wither Saruman or the Eye is the master. The argument continued but eventually Ugluk won the debate by slaying 5 of his opponents. To Isengard they march by night and day.

During the conflict Pippin managed to cut the cord which binded his hands. At first the Hobbits were carried, after a while The Hobbits were forced to walk. Ugluk treated them with Orc medicine and forced them to drink from a flask which caused their pain to vanish. They were then made to run at a great pace fueled only by the orc liquor. Ugluk feared that the cursed horse breeders would soon be on their trail because a Scout was allowed to escape.

Pippin attempts to escape, but was quickly caught but not before leaving his elven brooch behind as a sign. The Hobbits did not remember much of the rest of their journey. Pippin awoke from a dark sleep near the bank of a fast flowing river. The Orcs argued again. The northerners were allowed to flea and over one hundred of them left along the river towards the mountains. The Hobbits were left with the Isengarders and a few of the bolder Northerners.

Around then Grishnakh returned with a couple of score of Orcs bearing the mark of the red eye. With the threat of the horsemen growing the Orcs raced towards the forest going at a even greater pace. The Uruk-hai and Orcs of Mordor overtook the Northerners who were resting under the heat of the afternoon sun.

Upon nightfall the horsemen have circled the Orcs, Trapped only a short distance from the forest. During the night, the Hobbits managed to convince Grishnakh that they held what the red eye desired, while the uruk-hai was distracted Grishnakh made his move carrying the Hobbits away only to be slain by a rider. The Hobbits remain unseen, Other Orcs arrived from the forest and a battle started. During the confusion the Hobbits were able to crawl away to safety.

Ugluk and a group of Uruk-hai made a charge for Fangorn killing several riders who blocked their way. Ugluk was slain right on the edge of Fangorn by Eomer who dismounted and fought him Sword to Sword.
Last edited by Birch_Tree on Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Birch_Tree » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:55 pm

I never thought the the discussion would be such a challenge to think up. I done my best, hopefully it would help generate discussion.


1)We got a good look at the Orcs in this chapter. Is there any redeeming qualities or attributes among the Orcs or their leadership.

Did Ugluk do a good job?. He certainly kept the Moria Orcs from rebillion and fulfilled his orders to take the 'Hobbits alive to Isengard'.

Was there any significance with the way Ugluk and Grishnakh die? Ugluk died during a charge to freedom with a group of followers, he even fought Eomer sword to sword. Grishnakh died 'alone' in the dark with barely a strike to defend himself.

Why do you think Sauron and Saurman sent Orcs, rather then Men to try and retrieve the Ring? Why did Sauron keep the Nazgul at bay when the thought of the Ring was so close?


2) The Hobbits often faint while being carried by the Orcs, was that due to their injury and fatigue or did the Orcs give off a aura of fear which was overwhelming?.


3)Did the abilities and confidence of Merry and Pippin evolve during this chapter? This is the first time they had to make their own decisions.
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Postby Morwenna » Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:36 pm

Several things!

First, for me, it's the first time we see Pippin acting responsibly; so far he has been inquisitive but not at all circumspect, having carelessly nearly blown their cover at Bree (though Frodo did a better job!:)), and having awoken something in Moria by throwing a stone into that echoing well. But here, he actually thinks to take advantage of a bare blade to free his hands without letting on, and biding his time; and he thinks to run aside and leave a clue for any of their comrades who might follow, even though he believes the chance of that is very slim. We know Merry is somewhat more responsible already, because of his planning to start the journey from the Shire; but here (I believe it's in this chapter, unless I'm getting ahead) he tells how he spent time in Rivendell looking at maps. In any case, they're both very cagey when they scope out Grishnakh's desire and take advantage of that.

The orcs, I think, are sent because they're not so likely to strike out on their own and disobey their masters as Men would be, and probably the Ring has less appeal for orcs than for Men. The Ring's appeal is to personal power, something the orcs seem to be weak on (though it's not altogether absent). Note how Grishnakh grabs the hobbits for himself (which is why he dies alone); but it's not to have the Ring, but to have all the glory from his master. As for Ugluk's charge, it seems the orcs readily go into berserker mode when the battle gets roughest. Also he is the leader of his squad, and he has the most to gain (and to lose) from his own master. And orcs aren't altogether without pride. It's a mistake to think of them as automatons, as many people seem to, even though this observation will probably bring back all the threads about the nature and creation of the orc race. :)
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Re: TTT, Book 3 Chapter 3: THE URUK-HAI

Postby Notta Hobbit » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:53 pm

I'm going to respond to question 2 above, which was never answered. I think the fainting is a combination of both exhaustion and fear. The exhaustion is pretty obvious--they haven't been eating or drinking much (and dehydration can be even more debilitating than hunger) and have been marching for days. As for the fear, this is the first time, I think, that either of these hobbits has been in hands-on, close-up danger from another being (the attack at the Ford and the Balrog situation were not about them). Not only that, but they are tied up and can't even fight back. This is the first real test of their mettle they have ever had. Considering all that, they do keep their heads and handle things pretty well!
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Re: TTT, Book 3 Chapter 3: THE URUK-HAI

Postby Old_Begonia » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:55 pm

I will respond to question #3. Yes, I very definitely think that both of these hobbits grow and sort of come onto their own, so to speak, in this chapter. I've always thought it sort of starts when they drink the Orc draght. They learn a little about themselves, and what they are capable of. I mean, I think they had no idea they COULD keep going, but they found the strength was indeed there. I suppose one might draw a parallel here because orcs are descended from elves, that the Orc draught might compare, on a sort of reverse scale, to mirovir.
But beyond that, we know from other references that there is the sees of a grim determination, a courage and strength, buried ever so deep in the heart if any hobbit. Here they are, thrust upon their own adventure and we find they are quite up to the challenge.
(And you're right, you are just a smidge ahead of things: it is in the chapter titled Treebeard, when the hobbits decide they must dare the forest, that Merry alludes to map reading in Rivendel.)
"And it is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance else that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen."

There is something profound about standing AT sea level.
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Re: TTT, Book 3 Chapter 3: THE URUK-HAI

Postby Notta Hobbit » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:31 pm

Old_Begonia wrote:I will respond to question #3. Yes, I very definitely think that both of these hobbits grow and sort of come onto their own, so to speak, in this chapter. I've always thought it sort of starts when they drink the Orc draught.


Interesting idea! All the rest of what you say, I have always thought too, in a vague way, but you worded it very well. It's almost as if a "taste" of evil brings out their own inner strength.
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Re: TTT, Book 3 Chapter 3: THE URUK-HAI

Postby PatriotBlade » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:47 pm

This is just a spot holder so I'll start getting notices on updates to this thread. I'm actually a little past you and and am not reading as deeply at the moment, so I will have to back up a bit and re-read before I begin to participate.
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