TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

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TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby Notta Hobbit » Sun May 05, 2013 6:08 pm

Summary

The next morning, Faramir gives Sam and Frodo provisions. The hobbits and Gollum are brought out of Henneth Annuin and start south. They walk by day for about three days, then come to a road leading east. They turn onto this road and start walking by night. In fact, the first night they all sleep in a tree, since Gollum believes the ground is unsafe. They see neither bird nor beast. A few days more and they can see the Ephel Duath again. The hobbits go to sleep at dawn, but Gollum crawls off. Sam has a dream about Bag End, wakes up in a few hours and finds it's even darker than before. They hear thunder, or drums. Frodo sleeps for a while, then Gollum comes back suddenly and insists they leave immediately. About an hour takes them to the South Road. They hear drumming, but still see no one. The actual crossroads is enclosed by trees. The road "from" Osgiliath is on their right, with the Morannon road behind them. The road "to" Osgiliath heads west. The light of the setting sun reflects on Sam's face. They now notice a huge stone statue with its head cut off, replaced by a stone. But the head is on the ground beside it, and the sun also shines on some yellow and white flowers twining around its brow like a crown. Then the sun sets and the vision is gone.

Questions

1. Who is that statue of? (Is the answer to this perhaps in the Silmarillion?)
2. The directions seem confusing. Sam is looking west? They must be coming south if the Morannon Road is at their backs and the road to Osgiliath is on their right. So the road "to" and "from" Osgiliath are the same road?
3. OK, what exactly is causing the constant darkness?
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Re: TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby siddharth » Mon May 06, 2013 4:02 am

Aah, approaching my most favourite parts now! :D


1. I think the only thing we know about the statue is that it was constructed by the Gondorians for the King. As for which King, it's not mentioned in the book, appendices or the Sil. I haven't read JRRT's letters so there might be something about it.(or should be, since he was deadly precise on such matters).

2. I always get confused with geography so I will leave that for Morwenna. :D :D :D She's da ME-geographer of TORC! ;)

3. I think that's Sauron's doing. I think I remember some passage from the Return of the King which tells that Sauron covers his territories and beyond by a dark shadow so that orcs are stronger and more efficient (they are weaker in sunlight). It might also be a bit of foreboding that they are getting closer to Mordor.
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Re: TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby Morwenna » Tue May 07, 2013 7:23 am

Aw, you're making me blush! :)

Yes, "to" and "from" are the same thing. To their right, west, is Osgiliath; to their left, east, is Minas Morgul. If they kept going straight they'd eventually end up in the Harad (after South Ithilien).

I love that scene where they find the fallen king-statue and the flowers around its head. I suspect it might have been of one of Anarion's heirs, but I have no proof; it just seems logical.
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Re: TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby Arvegil » Tue May 07, 2013 9:08 am

1. Who is that statue of? (Is the answer to this perhaps in the Silmarillion?)

Not really a "silmarillion" issue. This was most likely an early TA creation. Even if it was late SA, Akallabeth covers the Numenorean colonies in only the briefest way, concentrating on the decay and growing shadow in Numenor itself.
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Re: TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby Morwenna » Tue May 07, 2013 9:28 am

I'm not alone, am I, in wanting a much more detailed history of ME in the Second and Third Ages? :D
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Re: TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby Notta Hobbit » Tue May 07, 2013 5:58 pm

Yeah, I'd go for that! Solve all these lingering questions. . . .

Morwenna, thanks for straightening me out on the directions.
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Re: TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby Morwenna » Thu May 09, 2013 4:47 am

Notta Hobbit wrote:Morwenna, thanks for straightening me out on the directions.


You're welcome. :)
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Re: TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby Arvegil » Thu May 09, 2013 7:54 am

Morwenna wrote:I'm not alone, am I, in wanting a much more detailed history of ME in the Second and Third Ages? :D


There is the unfinished "Tal-Elmar" in HoME XII, and Aldarion and Erendis, of course. While I agree with you, it just seems Tolkien couldn't develop a SA narrative that kept his attention.
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Re: TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby Morwenna » Fri May 10, 2013 4:53 am

I'm also tantalized by all that TA stuff, like the Kinslaying and Eorl and all those things that are so temptingly outlined in the Appendices. *sigh*
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Re: TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby Arvegil » Fri May 10, 2013 7:55 am

Morwenna wrote:I'm also tantalized by all that TA stuff, like the Kinslaying and Eorl and all those things that are so temptingly outlined in the Appendices. *sigh*


Cirion and Eorl covered Eorl himself fairly well
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Re: TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby siddharth » Fri May 10, 2013 9:25 pm

Well there's hope yet. There could be more broad notes on SA and TA for CT to publish sometime, like he did with the Sil and UT. *fingers-crossed*

I would love a more detailed version of SA and TA. Especially TA. I love the diversity of events in there. OF wars and kinslayings and the coming of the Stewards to power. Though the later half of TA is quite detailed as it is, starting from Gandalf's meeting with Thorin. Much that I love the SA history, I love TA more. No denyin' that. :D :D :D
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Re: TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby Morwenna » Sat May 11, 2013 7:10 am

I'm at a disadvantage. I have nothing of HoME except for half of BoLT. (And I'm not likely to get any unless the rest of them are available in the plain solid-colored covers that BoLT was!)
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Re: TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby Arvegil » Mon May 13, 2013 11:23 am

siddharth wrote:Well there's hope yet. There could be more broad notes on SA and TA for CT to publish sometime, like he did with the Sil and UT. *fingers-crossed*


I am not too optimistic there. After the publication of HoME XII, I suspect that the "unpublished notes" mine has pretty much been played out, absent a miraculous new discovery (which seems unlikely 40+ years after Tolkien's death).
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Re: TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby siddharth » Tue May 14, 2013 5:33 am

Arvegil wrote:
siddharth wrote:Well there's hope yet. There could be more broad notes on SA and TA for CT to publish sometime, like he did with the Sil and UT. *fingers-crossed*


I am not too optimistic there. After the publication of HoME XII, I suspect that the "unpublished notes" mine has pretty much been played out, absent a miraculous new discovery (which seems unlikely 40+ years after Tolkien's death).


Oh well, no harm in keepin' the head in the clouds. ;) And miracles do happen, right? :P
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Re: TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby Morwenna » Tue May 14, 2013 7:08 am

Well, maybe just like Niggle and his tree, maybe someday we'll see the whole thing and it'll be a rest and refreshment and the best introduction to the Mountains... :)
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Re: TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby Arvegil » Wed May 15, 2013 9:13 am

Morwenna wrote:Well, maybe just like Niggle and his tree, maybe someday we'll see the whole thing and it'll be a rest and refreshment and the best introduction to the Mountains... :)


And yet, that was a cautionary tale...
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Re: TTT, Book 4, Chapter 7, Journey to the Cross-Roads

Postby Morwenna » Thu May 16, 2013 9:40 am

Well,it was more of a cautionary tale to creators of art than to simple appreciators. Niggle's Parish was being used as a way-stop for others, long after its creators had moved on.
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