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Postby Marea » Mon Oct 28, 2002 10:53 pm

Hello Ethyl. Wonderful to hear from you again!<BR><BR>Nimloth and Bess and anyone else here:<BR><BR>Hi! I am another regular at the table of "Frodo's Kitchen" and I definately want to make the point with you all that it is by NO means required that you plow through pages and pages and pages before you can introduce yourself and have a bite of something nice and a cuppa tea there. We are many things on that thread.... support group, informational clearing house, virtual tea party, and a discussion group serious about many aspects of hobbit life and culture, with particular emphasis on how these themes relate to Frodo and Sam. If you read the first post, by our "kitchen mom", Connie Marie, you will get the flavor of the thread. Since that initial post, there has scarcely been a topic not touched on, or covered, or beaten to death in turns by all of us. Some samples (entirely from memory - please try not to be shocked)<BR><BR>Hobbits and religious expression - do they have any?<BR><BR>Compare/contrast Frodo's type heroism with Sam's<BR><BR>The significance of the orphan experience on the character of Frodo<BR><BR>Music and song and its meaning within LOTR<BR><BR>Cirith Ungol... thoughts on torture, the prisoner of war experience, and the symbology behind the "red glow" and Frodo's unclothed state<BR><BR>Sam and the nature of servitude<BR><BR>Themes behind Frodo & Sam's final push to Mt. Doom <BR><BR>Note: we also occasionally share recipies. And food. "Kitchen" food has no calories you see!<BR><BR>And we throw parties - to mark someone's 500th (or 1000th post). To celebrate holidays. To remember birthdays (Frodo's recent one was a doozy!)<BR><BR>And we occasionally encounter Frodo, Sam, Rosie, Merry, Pippin....<BR>there. After all, it is their kitchen! You may be moved to have a conversation with one of these folks... perhaps even ask for a dance. Stranger things have happened!<BR><BR>Hope to see you there sometime.<BR>
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Postby Ethel » Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:36 am

Marea,<BR>Thank you so much for stopping by with a personal welcome to, and a thoughtful description of, one of my favorite threads at TORC. As you know, I rarely post there, but I often stop by to read; it's always a treat. (I suppose I'm a bit of a parasite - mistletoe to the oak tree that is the thread... I shall try to contribute a bit more in future.)<BR><BR><BR>Nimloth,<BR>I don't mean for you to feel any "pressure". I've just been trying to help you "get connected" to the larger world of TORC - because I believe you will enjoy it. You see how welcoming our "visitors" are! It's one of the really wonderful things about this site.<BR><BR><BR>Saro,<BR>Didn't mean to freak you out with the "co adopter" suggestion - it just occurred to me how much I appreciate you and Sarah helping out with the welcoming. I think it's better for the newcomers, too, to be welcomed by more than one person.<BR><BR>You mentioned seafood. It must be because California was settled by so many Midwesterners, but people out here are <i>weird</i> about seafood. A lot of them won't eat <i>any</i> kind of fish; I daren't serve it at a dinner party. Yet we have lovely Pacific fish - salmon and swordfish, shark and snapper. And those fabulous king crab. But I still miss the sweet little crabs from the Chesapeake Bay. An uncle of mine had a ratty little cabin by the bay and kept crab pots - how I remember those family crab feeds!<BR><BR><BR>Sarah,<BR>You did stir the pot beautifully over in the Movies Forum! I wasn't here in the "pre movie" days, but I arrived shortly after. There was genuine unpleasantness between the old timers and the newbies back then. It helped when Jon & Ted created the Fandom forum - got the "swooners" out of the way - but it was often very unfriendly even after that. There were some real flames between the oldtimers and the newcomers. Only the stubborn survived! (I'm one of the stubborn.)<BR><BR>There are still a lot of "purists" around in the Movies Forum - NiennaSorrowing, Saranthir, akallabeth, Mithfanion, Linden, queen_beruthiel - to name a few. The truly heated discussions have died down now; I think that's why people are "bumping" some of the old threads. But I'm sure we'll all be at it hammer and tongs again once we have TTT to discusss.<BR><BR><BR>Bess,<BR>I love that quote from "Shakespeare in Love" too! You can tell it was written by people who have spent a lot of time around theaters - as Mr. S himself did. One of my brothers is a Shakespearean actor and he loved the movie too. Wouldn't you give anything to see a full production of the "Romeo and Juliet" they were staging in the film? Did you ever hear the line "Oh, I am Fortune's fool!" delivered better?<BR><BR>I shall look up your stories tomorrow.<BR><BR>Goodnight, dear family...<BR>Ethel<BR>
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Postby Saroneuroe » Tue Oct 29, 2002 4:23 am

Ethel- I <b>Like</b> the idea of being your co-adopter. I've enjoyed hanging out on this thread and welcoming the new family members. I'm not freaked out at all.<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Not much I can do about 'til I have "tenure", though!<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>In this day and age with snap freezing of seafood you should be able to get good seafood anywhere in the country, but the only good seafood I had for the ten years that I lived in Chicago was at a Chinese restaurant, and I went to some expensive restaurants! They just overcook it every time. Maryland Blue crab is the best! I lived in Severna Park, MD for 4 years and I just can't get enough of the "good stuff", covered with Old Bay, when I get the chance. The only time I've been to CA I went to San Francisco for a couple of days. They don't seem to have a phobia of seafood. (I need an emoticon for licking my lips.)<BR><BR>Saro
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Postby bessthebard » Tue Oct 29, 2002 7:48 am

Saro and Ethel,<BR><BR>I admit it, I'm one of those crusty Midwesterners who has to have her hand held and hold her nose to try most seafood. My seafood experiences have been mixed, to say the least.<BR><BR>When I lived in Mexico going to school, I went to a very nice restaurant and during the soup course, a bowl full of fish heads appeared. It was a large bowl and at least 3-4 sets of eyes stared blankly up at me. That was the end of dinner for me that night.<BR><BR>Saro, I think you're right that the food must be fresh to be good. I was on the east coast of Mexico south of Veracruz and a group of us bought fresh shrimp in the open air market just a block from the ocean. It had been caught the day before. We grilled it over an open fire, squeezed fresh lime over it and ate pounds and pounds of shrimp. Accompanied by fresh warm tortillas and guacamole made on the spot...(pauses to wipe drool from chin.)<BR><BR>The rest of my seafood experiences are decidedly pedestrian, limited to Red Lobster and an all you can eat buffet called Jumpin' Catfish (featuring catfish, crawdad, frog legs and alligator gumbo. Hmmm..I guess that's lakefood rather than seafood. It will make true seafood afficionados shudder but the best clam chowder I ever had (to date) was at a restaurant called Hemingway's in the Bass Pro Shop in Springfield, MO.<BR><BR>Marea,<BR><BR>Thanks for the gracious invitation to Frodo's Kitchen. I will try to drop by soon. Do Frodo and Sam like chocolate? Tolkien is silent on the subject, but I always thought hobbits had to like chocolate. After all, I do and I'm pretty much hobbit-shaped. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR><BR>Sarah,<BR><BR>The movie discussion is certainly lively. If this is what it's like when there's a dearth of new things to discuss, what's it going to be like after TTT comes out? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I think I will continue to observe the repartee for now. I'm a little afraid if I venture to stick my nose in, I'll get it bitten off. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Well, I must go and win one for that underdog of the American industry, the Insurance Company!! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-rolleyes.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Hugs and warm fuzzies to all. Fare Thee Well.<BR><BR>Bess.
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Postby Ethel » Wed Oct 30, 2002 4:59 pm

Bess,<BR><i>The movie discussion is certainly lively. If this is what it's like when there's a dearth of new things to discuss, what's it going to be like after TTT comes out? </i><BR><BR>It will be lively! But do not fear to post in the Movies Forum. I'll smack them if they are mean to you. Actually, though, as long as you avoid swooning and Netspeak, you'll be fine. That's what really sets them off.<BR><BR>Saro,<BR>I think I need that lip smackin' smiley too. I've been thinking about the crabcake-like casserole my Aunt Mildred used to make out of those fresh Chesapeake crabs - to die for!<BR><BR>Ethel
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Postby Vanalossen » Wed Oct 30, 2002 6:27 pm

Hello again.<BR>Sorry I've been so absent recently. I very rairly am allowed online, so please put up with me. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> My favorite character was and is Legolas. He is just such a good fighter and cool. *stares off into space, then blinks back to reality.* My second fav would have to be all of the Hobbits(can't pick there, sorry), then Aragorn. I have a friend who is trying to be the personification of Arwen because she loves Aragorn so much. Ethel, when I first watched the movie, I was lost about some of the things they were talking about, and constantly asked my brother (who had read the book before watching the movie, smart child) about everything. Mom says that getting me to read the books before I saw the Fellowship was like trying to pull teeth, but afterwards she couldn't keep me away from them(and believe me, she's tried). However, I'm not much of a newbie to Tolkien anymore. Since watching the movie, I have done extensive research on Lord of the Rings online and in Tolkien's books. What is everyone's favorite book(Toklien or non-Tolkien)? Can't wait to talk more l8er.<BR>VanalossWen
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Postby Saroneuroe » Wed Oct 30, 2002 7:21 pm

Vanalosswen- My favorite Tolkien book is Return of the King, of course LOTR is really just one book split into three parts. Non-Tolkien is actually tougher to choose. I'd have to say my favorite is Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. LeGuin, but there are many more SF books that I love and reread every once in awhile. Ethel, Nimloth, Bess, and I are currently reading Dickens' Bleak House in Books (other authors). I am starting to read more and more non-fiction. I haven't yet read 'Germs, Guns, and Steel', but I understand that it's a very good book about how technology has shaped human history.<BR><BR>Ethel- Take it easy on all the food talk <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-rolleyes.gif"border=0>. I can get plenty of seafood here, but I'm sorry to say that MD blue crab is scarce around here. I am now craving my mom's cream of crab soup!<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Saro
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Postby bessthebard » Wed Oct 30, 2002 9:09 pm

Vanolossen, <BR><BR>Hello! My favorite Tolkien book of the trilogy is the Two Towers. I love the character development and especially the battle of Helm's Deep. It's a little bloodthirsty but I love the orc-hewing contest between Legolas and Gimli. The friendship between those two is also one of the things I like best about LOTR. I wish Tolkien had gone into more depth about it. Ok, I confess I am a Gimli fan. He's just so stalwart and straightforward, while at the same time noble in his way. <BR><BR>I have lots of favorite non-Tolkien books. The Outlander series by Diana Gaboldon because her grasp of history is excellent. Larry Niven's Ringworld series. Lois McMasters Bujold's Vorkosigan series. David McCullough's biographies of John Adams and Harry Truman because they are two of my favorite historical figures. Madeline L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time. Anything by Mark Twain. Robert Heinlein (he's from my state of Missouri) who wrote Stranger in a Strange Land. <BR><BR>I hope you continue to study up on Tolkien. This is a passion that can last your whole life and you'll just keep discovering the wonder of it over and over again.<BR><BR>Fare thee well, <BR><BR>Bess.
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Postby Saroneuroe » Thu Oct 31, 2002 4:18 am

Bess-<BR><BR><i>Robert Heinlein (he's from my state of Missouri) who wrote Stranger in a Strange Land. </i><BR><BR>Have you been following the thread "Heinlein you Dog" in Books(other authors)?? It's been very amusing, especially the intro. I was disappointed that the title was changed to "Heinlein you extrememly talented author" on the objection of Mariahobbit from MO, who considered the word "dog" to be *extremely* offensive. I just took it to mean scoundrel a la Peppermint Patty from the Peanuts "You sly dog." Am I missing something? I don't think that my MO relatives would find the word especially offensive.(shrug) Just wondering.<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Saro
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Postby bessthebard » Thu Oct 31, 2002 9:38 am

No, I didn't think "Heinlein, you dog" was really offensive. But MariaHobbit sounded like she was going through a tough time, plus she is a real devotee of Heinlein. She's just coming to his defense. <BR><BR>I did post my thoughts about Heinlein in the "Books-Other" section. Hope I don't get ripped up too bad. <BR><BR>I did not include this thought in my other post, but part of the fascination with Heinlein was because he made references to things I was familiar with from growing up in Missouri. In Stranger in a Strange Land, I was always certain that charismatic religion depicted there, with its prophet, was modeled on the Mormon church. The Mormon church (and various off-shoots, one of which I am a member of) has a strong presence in the Kansas City area, that Heinlein I think was familiar with. I don't agree or disagree with his portrayal of it, I just enjoyed "getting" the reference. There were other Missouri references I enjoyed, too, in his books.<BR><BR>But it was his larger topics on sex, morality, longevity and family that really stayed with me over the years. Anyway, THANK YOU for letting me know about that thread. It was fun. I haven't debated Heinlein as an author since college. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>
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Postby Ethel » Thu Oct 31, 2002 10:55 am

Vanalossen,<BR>I beg your pardon; I've been neglecting you! How is it that you are very rarely allowed online? Is it that you are sharing a computer with the rest of your family, or because of rules you have to follow? Do you have a schedule? (I only ask because if you do, I'd know when to look for you.)<BR><BR>I think it's wonderful that the movie made you read the book. It always makes me very happy to hear that. I liked Legolas in the book, but there's no doubt that he was extra cool in the movie. I don't know why shooting arrows really quickly should seem so sexy, but it does!<BR><BR>I can't really say that I have a favorite among the LOTR volumes - to me it's all one long story. It would be very difficult for me to name my <i>favorite</i> non-Tolkien book - I like so many! I love everything Jane Austen wrote, but I guess my favorite of hers is "Pride and Prejudice." I'm a big fan of Tolstoy's "War and Peace." There are zillions of others. Several of the people in this thread are doing a group read of Dickens' "Bleak House" at the moment - I'm very fond of that book too.<BR><BR>What is your favorite non-Tolkien book, Vana?<BR><BR><BR>Bess,<BR>I liked the Outlander books too, up until the last one. I couldn't finish "The Fiery Cross" - just couldn't seem to get into it. I didn't think Diana could write a dull book, but she managed it. Where were her editors?<BR><BR><BR>Bess & Saro,<BR>I've been reading the Heinlein thread - interesting. I'm not a big fan of his, myself. The last book I read by him was "Starship Troopers" - and I <i>really</i> did not care for it. Fascism as the cure to human ills... public whippings as the solution to crime (didn't work too well for the British, did it?)... well, I won't go on. I do remember liking "Stranger in a Strange Land" way back when, though I hardly remember it now. Bess, I'm fascinated by what you say about SiaSL being based in part on an offshoot of the Mormon religion. I wasn't even aware that there <i>were</i> any surviving offshoots of the Mormon religion - at least not of any size. (I apologize for my ignorance!) I think I might have to reread the book now.<BR> <BR><i>"It was fun. I haven't debated Heinlein as an author since college."</i><BR><BR>Bess, this is <i>exactly</i> what I love about TORC! It's like hanging out at the coffee shop at college - except you never have to write any papers!<BR><BR>Hugs to all,<BR>Ethel<BR><BR> <BR>Edited to add: Vana, I noticed that you closed your post with the expression "Can't wait to talk more <u>l8er</u>." I do just want to caution you that Netspeak expressions tend <i>not</i> to be well received on these boards. Since you write very clearly and correctly - I commend you! - this should not be a problem for you. But I wanted you to be aware that there are people here who get quite excited about usages such as "u" for "you" and "l8er" for "later" and so forth. At TORC, it's safest to avoid all Netspeak-isms (except perhaps abbreviations such as LOL). <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Saroneuroe » Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:46 am

<i>Anyway, THANK YOU for letting me know about that thread. It was fun. I haven't debated Heinlein as an author since college.<BR><BR>Bess, this is exactly what I love about TORC! It's like hanging out at the coffee shop at college - except you never have to write any papers!<BR></i><BR><BR>I feel the same way about TORC. It's like all the good parts of college with none of the bad, like 8am calculus!<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Saro
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Postby Ethel » Thu Oct 31, 2002 11:50 am

<i>8am calculus</i><BR><BR>Saro, my third semester calculus class was at 8 AM Monday, Wednesday and Friday... torture! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0>
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Postby bessthebard » Fri Nov 01, 2002 12:37 pm

The 8am class I remember loathing was Comparative Economic Systems taught by a Russian professor. I couldn't understand him until at least 8:45 <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> (The fault of my foggy brain more than his English).<BR><BR>But my Feminism and Science Fiction class started at 7:30pm and after the first class we always met at the Pizza Shack and didn't break up until 11pm at the earliest. Ahh..those were the days.<BR><BR><BR>Fare Thee Well,<BR><BR>Bess<BR>
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Postby Saroneuroe » Fri Nov 01, 2002 12:54 pm

Actually, my worst class was organic chemistry at 8am in a lecture hall where the heat was always at least 80 degrees! Talk about a soporific!!!zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzBut then there was my parasitology professor who flunked half of the class, mostly graduating seniors who needed to pass to graduate. That was the hardest earned C of my life!<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I loved my SF class. We watched movies on a big screen on campus once a week. Brazil gave me a migraine, though.<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Saro<BR>
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Postby bessthebard » Fri Nov 01, 2002 1:14 pm

Saro,<BR><BR>Brazil was a dark, twisted movie, wasn't it? The "comedy" was at once too "out there" and too familiar. Just sad rather than comic, I thought. <BR><BR>I was always wide awake for my theater and history classes, I remember. No matter how early they were. <BR><BR>I think I remember reading you do biology research. Fascinating stuff and you must feel you contribute a lot to helping people who are sick. Did you get a graduate degree for the work you do? I always wondered how much a biological scientist's curriculum followed a medical student's curriculum--at least in undergraduate terms.<BR><BR>At one time I thought about being a biologist of some kind--but I wimped out in chemistry because I knew I was going to get a B instead of an A. How anal and shortsighted I was in H.S. But I took Animal Development and Behavior, Zoology and Anatomy and Physiology in college because they interested me.<BR><BR>Okay, I'm rambling on to no purpose here. Time to get back to work.<BR><BR>Fare thee well,<BR><BR>Bess the Bard
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Postby Saroneuroe » Fri Nov 01, 2002 1:24 pm

Bess- One of my best friends is a *huge* fan of Brazil. My husband wants me to try watching the dvd alternate "hollywood ending" version. I can't even *imagine* what that would be like.<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I don't have a graduate degree, though most of the people that I work with are PhDs and/or MDs. I have a nonsense in Zoology. Most of my classmates were pre-med or pre-vet. If I had to do it over, I would take an extra year and take even more *fun* classes. A degree in science requires a pretty rigid course schedule. I always felt cheated that my "labs" were only counted for 1 credit, but took as much time as most 3 credit courses.<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0> You know, one hour scheduled and an additional 5 hours expected.<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Saro<BR>
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Postby Nimloth-in-Iber » Sat Nov 02, 2002 1:17 pm

<BR> Hello, all of you:<BR><BR> There was a question in the air, about the favourite part of LOTR:<BR>for me is "The return of the king".I think it´s because of he heartbreaking last chapters of the book, the happyness and the sorrow so mixed, and the Grey Havens...<BR><BR> And about other books, some of the authors mentioned are, too, liked very much for me: Ursula K LeGuin, Lois MacMaster Bujold (so much amusing and fascinating his hero, Miles Vorkorsigan) and CJ Cherryh, Orson Scott Card, Julian May, Guy Gavriel Kay are quite interesting. Not science-fiction or fantasy I like Dostoyevsky, Pérez Galdós, Kipling, Wilde, Camus, Amin Maalouf...lots of them!<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Nimloth
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Postby bessthebard » Sat Nov 02, 2002 4:21 pm

Ethel and everyone, I hope this is ok. This is probably more fitted to the Philosophy forum, but I'm not brave enough to go over there and start a new thread on it. So I thought maybe I could try it out amongst friends. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I thought maybe I would throw out for discussion something that I have been thinking about lately. If there are answers for this in sources I haven't come across, let me know. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> Ok, here goes. <BR><BR>We have a fairly clear idea from the Silmarillion and other essays like Morgoth's Ring what happens to Elves when they die and go to the Halls of Mandos. We have those details (other than the fact that Tolkien gave them to us) because the Sil and other "histories" were written from the Elves' point of view. The theory always was that we did not know what happened to Men (and Hobbits) after they die because Iluvatar had not revealed this to the Elves or the Valar. <BR><BR>But it was not revealed to Men, either. The highest Men, of Numenor and, later Gondor, knew of Iluvatar and the Valar. But everything that happened after death was a big question mark. In Middle Earth, Tolkien provided no theology for humans as we know it in our world. There seems to be a shared sense of what is good amongst Men from Gondor and Rohan and the Hobbits but where did that come from? <BR><BR>And humans in Middle Earth had no promise of an eternal reward for being good or punishment for being bad. What sort of "judgement" if any, awaited them beyond the circles of the world was completely unknown. If a human served the Dark Lord, what happened to them when they died? I don't know of anyplace that Tolkien explains that. And why didn't humans in Middle Earth invent stories or myths that tried to explain what happened after death? It's a primal human drive, as Tolkien well knew. <BR><BR>I accept that the Elves didn't know what happened to the humans after death. But it's hard for me to accept that the humans didn't try to find out or they didn't at least "invent" a theory for it. It seems to me that Tolkien neglected to fill in a very important part of the picture, or at least explain why it was left blank in an internally consistant way.<BR><BR>Opinions? Comments? Political statements?
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Postby Ethel » Sat Nov 02, 2002 4:44 pm

Hi Nimloth,<BR><BR>You seem to be very well read! I am familiar with most of the authors you named, but several of them are new to me. Could you tell us a little about Julian May? Others I am unfamiliar with are Pérez Galdós and Amin Maalouf - could you give us a couple of book titles?<BR><BR><BR>Bess,<BR>Everything is okay here. This forum is all about okay-ness! However, I think you ask a very interesting question, and it's one I know relatively little about. I would like to suggest you start a thread on this topic in the Tolkien Books forum. There are people over there who have read every word Tolkien wrote, and if anyone knows an answer, you'll get it there.<BR><BR>My own guess is that Tolkien chose not to dwell too hard on the fate of Men after death, out of fear of it seeming blasphemous.<BR><BR>I encourage you to go ahead and post the topic. I'll respond as best I can, but I'm sure you will get other and far more satisfactory answers! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Ethel<BR><BR>
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Postby Saroneuroe » Sun Nov 03, 2002 3:26 pm

Ethel- I 've run across a few exchanges between Democritus and Bernd. Do they really hate each other or are they both being very sarcastic? Sometimes it's hard to tell such things in print.<BR><BR>Saro
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Postby Vanalossen » Sun Nov 03, 2002 5:54 pm

Hey all! I'm baacckk! Ethel, Oops! sorry about the abreviation. I generally don't talk like that except when I'm in a hurry or tired. I'm only allowed online after I've done all my school, and then generally to check my e-mail. Though I am usually online on Monday and Wednsday becasue I am at out University and have some free time. My fav tolkien book is Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit. I don't really like the other books he wrote, but I read them to get a background of Middle Earth. Elves are my favorite beings in Middle earth, what beings are everyone else's favorites? I really like reading about the friendship of Gimli and Legolas, also. It was funny to watch their personalties bounce off each other before Lorien, and sometimes even after Lorien. I'll talk to everyone later.<BR>Vana
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Postby Ethel » Sun Nov 03, 2002 7:44 pm

<i>I 've run across a few exchanges between Democritus and Bernd. Do they really hate each other or are they both being very sarcastic? </i><BR><BR>Saro,<BR>They are certainly both sarcastic but they are both longtime denizens of the Movies Forum, and I'm pretty sure they don't hate each other at all. Bernd also tends to be rather terse, but I honestly do not think he means to be unkind. And I don't think he feels passionately enough about any of this stuff to hate <i>anyone</i>. (He seems to be more of a movie fan than a Tolkien fan.) I think what you've observed is just guy talk, to be honest.<BR><BR>(Did you see the link Demo posted to Leonard Nimoy singing "The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins"? LMAO! I'd heard of it but I'd never actually seen it before.)<BR><BR><BR>Hi Vana!<BR>Glad to see you back. Your use of the abbreviation wasn't a big deal at all - I hope I didn't make it sound that way. I just felt I would have been remiss in not pointing out something that has gotten people "flamed" on these boards. You don't need the aggravation. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I think that when I first read the books the Elves were my favorite characters - they are just so cool! But as I've gotten older I've developed a great love for Frodo and Sam. Frodo's sacrifices just break my heart.<BR><BR>Have you had time to check out any of the other forums yet?<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Ethel
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Postby Saroneuroe » Mon Nov 04, 2002 7:20 am

Ethel- Glad to hear it. Newbie that I am, I still don't know most of the people on the boards that well. I try to pick up on the tone from context, but sometimes I just can't figure it out.<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I *did* see the Nimoy link. It didn't work for my computer, but I have held that album in my hands. Pretty wild, huh?<BR><BR>Vana- I, like most people (I think), loved the whole interplay between Gimli and Legolas throughout LOTR. One of the parts of the book that I missed most from the FOTR movie is the part where Legolas and the rest of the Fellowship go into Lothlorien blindfolded because they insist on blindfolding Gimli.<BR><BR>Saro<BR>
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Postby bessthebard » Mon Nov 04, 2002 8:59 am

Vano, <BR><BR>Glad to hear from you. Elves are fascinating and give me the most fodder for my philosophical musings. Hobbits are dear and familiar. But I have to admit a special fondness for dwarves. I always liked Gimli. And reading the Hobbit actually made me like dwarves more, although they are portrayed in a more childish light in that book. At least with Dwarves you always know where you stand. They are stalwart and straightforward, even when they are in the wrong. <BR><BR>What are you studying at University? Hope you are able to take a variety of classes just to study things that interest you. It's one of the most valuable parts of a college education, and you don't get the chance often once you leave college. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif"border=0>
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Postby Nimloth-in-Iber » Mon Nov 04, 2002 1:11 pm

Hello Ethel and all the rest of you,<BR><BR> About Julian May, she is a wonderful science-fiction writer and I recommend with enthusiam her books, chiefly "Intervention" and the Galactic Milieu Trilogy ("Jack the bodiless", "Diamond Mask" and "Magnificat"<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>. They ´ve got the most thrilling plot about the evolution of human mind I ever read.<BR><BR> Pérez Galdós is a XIX century spanish novelist, of realism style and with similar interest in his topics and approaches as Dickens in England and, maybe, Victor Hugo in France. Some critics consider him the best spanish novelist after Cervantes. He wrote very important literary works, for instance "Fortunata y Jacinta", "Misericordia" and the "Episodios Nacionales", a long series of historical novels that depict the ups and downs of our sorrowful XIX century, beginning with the Independence War against the french napoleonic army (do you remember the terrible Goya paintings about that war?)<BR><BR> And Amin Maalouf is a writer of libanese origin, but using french as his main form of expression. He´s well known in Europe, and I like very much some of his books, for instance (I give the original titles) "Samarcande", "Les échelles du Levant", "Léon l´Africain" and "Les jardins de lumière. In these moments of hostility between West and East, I think he´s someone to consider.<BR><BR> Cheers, <BR><BR>Nimloth
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Postby Saroneuroe » Mon Nov 04, 2002 1:55 pm

Nimloth- I thought that I recognized the name Julian May, but I didn't recognize any of the titles that you listed. I did a search and found the Pliocene series starting with The Many Colored Land. I know that I read it many years ago, but my memory is fuzzy. Have you read this series?<BR><BR>Saro<BR>
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Postby bessthebard » Mon Nov 04, 2002 2:59 pm

Saro, <BR><BR>I just noticed your tag line "Istari Basenjis-"Where the Wild Things Are". My mother-in-law used to raise and show Basenjis in the Midwest. They were good family dogs. She did really well with them for awhile. Do you breed or show Basenjis? Or just have one as a beloved member of the family? <BR><BR>Eventuall my inlaws got divorced, she moved into a smaller house and started showing and raising lovebirds and finches. She makes a lot of money doing that. We call her the Bird Lady of Branson and now she has a webpage with that title. Believe me, a bird show is lot more boring than a dog show. Sometimes I just want to let a cat loose in there... <BR><BR>Nimloth, <BR><BR>I am going to check out the authors you mentioned. Julian May really sounds interesting. The last one, Amin Malouf--is he available in English. Or just French? I might be able to manage a Spanish edition, but I never took French. <BR><BR>Spain is maybe a place where we could learn to appreciate the meeting of East and West, isn't it. Spain certainly benefited from the Moorish influence and the Jewish influence of the Middle Ages and early Renaissance. I think of the beautiful Moorish architecture I'd like to see some day, like the Alhambra. <BR><BR>I wonder if for the next book read after Bleak House we might choose an author from outside America or England. Different worldview would be interesting.<BR><BR>Fare thee well, <BR><BR>Bess
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Postby Vanalossen » Mon Nov 04, 2002 4:06 pm

Hey all!<BR>I am studying Russian at the University, and I'm really enjoying it. <BR>Ethel, I've gone to the alliance section and been accepted by one of the alliances. The one for Elrond's alliance. Other than that, I've only been to one other one, and got totally lost. Frodo's kitchen. It looked interesting, but I have better things to do with my time than to read through 200-odd pages. I'll probably be on later tonight. Talk to you all later.<BR>Vana
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Postby Saroneuroe » Mon Nov 04, 2002 4:37 pm

<i>I just noticed your tag line Istari Basenjis-"Where the Wild Things Are". </i><BR><BR>How observant of you. I just added it today!<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Currently, I only have one basenji, Istari's Return of the King aka Pippin. He's the neutered son of my first basenji, CH Kibushi Arwen of Signet, CD aka Winnie (from Centralia, MO). I showed Winnie in conformation and obedience. She was a top ten basenji in obedience for two years. Pippin wasn't cut out for showing, but I co-own one of Winnie's grandsons. Hopefully, I'll get back into dogs soon. I've been a little busy with my son for the past 4 years and Winnie suddenly died of a fungal infection in her lung while I was pregnant with him, so I needed to take a break anyway. Sorry for the long-winded answer to a simple question!<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR><i>I wonder if for the next book read after Bleak House we might choose an author from outside America or England. Different worldview would be interesting.</i><BR><BR>We're due for an SF book next. I'm ashamed to say that the only non-English speaking SF writer that I'm familiar with off the top of my head is Stanislaw Lem. Any suggestions Nimloth?<BR><BR>Saro
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