The Frodo/Elijah Blue Eyed Wonder Thread

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Postby Ereshkigal » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:49 pm

mechtild wrote:Ereshkigal, who is in your sig pic? You know how out of it I am.


Hayden Christiansen (sp?); aka Anakin Skywalker; aka Darth Vader, in The Revenge of the Sith, out in May 19.

Looks like Jude Law's younger brother, doesn't he?

He didn't do much for me in other pictures, but he looks great here, no?
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Postby Lembas_Junkie » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:47 pm

Or, if you want to look at it another way: the guy in Eresh's sig is really Cirdan, Surfer Dude and Shipwright, who participated in MOME 2003, and bears an uncanny resemblance to Hayden Christensen! :D (Hubba, hubba, BYW!! ;) )
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Postby nienor*lalaith » Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:43 pm

Ooh, Lembas, your sig pic is perfect...Congrats on Frodo's MOME win! I'm sure you all did a terrific job. :)

Seriously, though, I would have been truly hurt had not Frodo won. I still smart a little that E.W.'s performance was not slobbered over as much as it ought to have been, which I take as a slighting of Frodo (however irrational). I already have written here about how distressing I found and continue to find the remarks of viewers who want to tell me how Frodo fell short, wasn't a hero and that Sam would have been able to chuck in that Ring just fine, had he been given it, instead. So, silly as it seems, if Frodo were not named "Male of Middle Earth," in this frivolous little pagaent, I would have taken it as another slight in a procession of slights. Especially since it would have come from Tolkien fans, not one-time viewers or readers of the books.


mech, how right you are. As a relatively new fan to everything LOTR, mark my word that no one, no one ever stood out and shone as much to me as Frodo did. Elijah's amazingly under-appreciated performance only added to my enormous amount of love for the character.

~n*l
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Postby mechtild » Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:30 pm

Thanks, Ereshkigal and Lembas for identifying the actor. I only went (with huge expectations, having loved the first two Star Wars films) to the first of the "new" Star Wars films, the one with Jar Jar Binks and the nice-looking but dull little blond boy actor playing young Anakin; I was so disappointed, I didn't bother to see the next one. Mr. Christiansen looks very comely in your sig pic, Ereshkigal.

Nienor, it heartens me to hear your support for our Frodo. I have read many appreciative reviews, but not to the degree I think the performance deserves. My own opinion has been, that as the three films begin to be seen as one, the full "arc" of the portrayal of Frodo will become more evident and EW's work in the role will be appreciated as it ought to be.

Lembas, I received a copy of your email of congrats and thanks, re:MOME III, too. Our pleasure, really!

Wendy! I only just now looked and saw that you had written a lovely "farewell" post for Frodo in the MOME III thread. I especially enjoyed its depicting, at last, your bath with Frodo (you had suffered endless 'bathus interruptus' heretofore). It was a GREAT wrap-up. I got vicarious pleasure out of the fact that you were able to enjoy *certain delights* after the bath, too. (At least SOMEBODY did.) Lucky you! Additionally, I loved your linked pictures to illustrate, although the second link didn't work for me. But, seeing the artist's name and picture title in the address box, I Googled it up and got this. Would this be the image you linked? --

John William Waterhouse's "Ariadne" :

http://www.artformgallery.com/images2/w ... e/03ar.jpg
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Postby NazgulRus » Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:13 pm

Well, I'm back from a weekend retreat, and missed the awards ceremony, but I see that FRODO WON!!!!! Woo hoooooo!! Congratulations all of you who won honors, I must go see for myself. Congratulations Lembas!!!!!!! My regret is coming in so late, but I will allow myself to bask in your reflected glory.

I agree with you Mech about feeling slighted whenever Frodo loses anything after all the misunderstanding over his character generated by the movies, and the lack of enough kudos for Elijah. Although we must entertain the possibility that they let Frodo win to keep us from drooling all over the boards next year. ;)

I have a question for those of you who consistently doctor pictures well for your sig pics, Tex, Lembas, Scarlet: I am buying a computer, as mine died of a nasty virus, and want a picture editing/playing around with program. What do you recommend?

Off to check out MOME.

Eresh: nice sig pic- I'm *sort of* looking forward to this movie, you?

Elijah Rocks! (shout shout)
Nazzie

Edit: just posted my final in MOME. A melancholy one, sorry to say, to reflect my mood. I am feeling a little sad about being torn in so many directions that I can't ever seem to fully participate in TORC. :( Oh, well. Some is better than none I guess.
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Postby RubySandybanks » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:33 pm

Go Frodo! Go Frodo! Go Frodo!

I knew he would win! I knew it! I knew it! I knew it! Yes! Ha ha!
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) So, what do we do now?
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Postby WendyLadyofLothlorien » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:22 pm

Mechtild,

"bathus interruptus" indeed...:D :D :D

Yes, that IS the right picture !! I thought it was particularly suitable as all the Grey Havens ships could be seen out of the window...Perfect !!

I have really enjoyed writing the Lady Wendy posts, and the pictures have been especially fun to search for...
During the duration of this Pageant, I found this marvellous site for anyone who regularly needs Art pictures...

Art Renewal Center

The only thing is that you do need to know the Artist's name, as they don't seem to classify their collection by Art Movements, which if you don't know all of the artists in any one particular movement, would be very helpful, and rewarding...
No matter...plenty of other sites do...especially Art Poster sites !!

As we've mentioned before, the Art Nouveau and Pre-Raphaelite Movements were particularly well suited to everything Elven...even the designers of Rivendell would agree with that !!

I did try to work this picture into Lady Wendy's tale, as I just love it - the boat just looks SO like an Elven boat, and she looks just like Lady Wendy - but, alas, the Pageant has ended before I could grab the opportunity...

The Lady of Shalott

By the way, I liked enormously your post over at K D, re: Sean's book...particularly the analogy of Elijah and Sean in the Supermarket...a very astute observation, methinks, and it has been picked up by several people there ! Such a shame you can't get in there at the mo'...

Here's the link for anyone who doesn't read the Faculty Lounge Thread there ( can't be many here who don't, but still :D )...and, Mech, it will be interesting to see wether you can open a link to KD or not...( Bet you can't :( )

Flourish's post halfway down the page !!

Flourish also posts here as Zazinka, BTW...and she has hosted Mech's post because Mech is having trouble getting access to the Khazaddum website, for some reason...

On the way down the page, you will also pass a couple of posts from me, referring to the whole DataLounge and Bag-End Inn Saga...for anyone who has no idea what I am talking about, go read...it is an amazingly odd tale, about very delusional people !!

The Internet is a very strange place, at times !! :roll: :roll: :roll:
Last edited by WendyLadyofLothlorien on Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Ereshkigal » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:28 pm

NazgulRus wrote:Eresh: nice sig pic- I'm *sort of* looking forward to this movie, you?


Ummmmm . . . maybe.

Surely, by process of elimination, it has to be the best of the prequels. If there is a God in Heaven (and I believe there is), it could not be worse than the other two. Unless Jar-Jar is reprised! (Please, nooooooooo!)

I loved the first three films (episodes 4, 5, and 6), largely because of that breathy guy in black. Since the 3rd film promises to be about his rise, I have hopes for it. We might have liked to root for Luke Skywalker, and cheered when Han Solo and Princess Leia finally kissed, but it was Darth Vader that drove the original films. Lucas seems to have forgotten that.


I've finally had time to play around in MOME, reading all the recklessy fun posts. Good work ladies.

And Mech, I also feel slighted when people do not appreciate Frodo's character in LOTR, and I think that's why I responded with that bitter thread "Why Jackson Ruined Frodo" immediately after viewing ROTK for the first time. I felt the director was largely to blame for people underestimating either Frodo's character or Wood's acting skills. I still think that the film character could have been written better, but Wood did the best he could within the parameters he was given.

And he is quite easy on the eyes, no?

BTW--how's chapter 9 coming? I do like my Frodoporn.
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Postby Lembas_Junkie » Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:50 am

I have really enjoyed writing the Lady Wendy posts, and the pictures have been especially fun to search for...

And *I* really enjoyed reading those poats! :D ALL of you guys' posts, it was so great!

Go Frodo! Go Frodo! Go Frodo!
I knew he would win! I knew it! I knew it! I knew it! Yes! Ha ha!

Ooh, Lembas, your sig pic is perfect...Congrats on Frodo's MOME win! I'm sure you all did a terrific job.

Lembas, I received a copy of your email of congrats and thanks, re:MOME III, too. Our pleasure, really!

THANK YOU!!!
:grouphug:

I am buying a computer, as mine died of a nasty virus, and want a picture editing/playing around with program. What do you recommend?

Photoshop, baby! 8)

BTW--how's chapter 9 coming? I do like my Frodoporn.

You said it! Meeee-YOW! =:)
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Postby mechtild » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:18 am

Oh, LEMBAS!!!!!!!!!

Because of the lovely letter of appreciation Primula sent to the "Frodo team," I saw that you must have written a "farewell" post at the MOME III thread. I hadn't been getting any notifications of reply for that thread, so I thought it must be all done.

I just opened the thread and read your last posts. They were just excellent. The scenes you imagined for those posts, the sensitive, faithful characterizations of Frodo and Sam, and the beautiful, lucid way you conveyed those scenes were so well done. You even put in a last wink (you know, what Frodo put in his pocket :wink: ), to round it all off, like a perfect chocolate after a wonderful dinner.

Lembas, my bosom swelled with pride and love, to think of all this being poured out at the feet of our beloved Frodo.

For those of you who have been following the thread but like me, did not know of these last posts, here's a link to the proper page. Just look for Lembas's Nov. 8 and Nov. 9 posts.

Also, take a look at Nazgul's Nov. 8 post, which precedes these, for an uncompromising look at the sorrows of us fans, once Frodo has gone again. A haunting image, too, Nazzie, of Fell Beast bearing you back to Mordor. Wonderful work, Naz.


See below, for a LINK TO MOME III thread, the page with Lembas and Nazzie's final posts:

http://forums.tolkienonline.com/viewtop ... 6965f36fc5


Ereshkigal, those first Star Wars films were superb, weren't they? And, yes, Darth Vadar was absolutely necessary to them. But all the characters were. I think, like LotR, the success of those films had a lot to do with the "chemistry" between what was truly an ensemble cast.

Wendy, read Lembas' post. She includes a simple but vivid image of you in the farewell. I kept thinking of Galadriel, as the Fellowship looks back, after pushing off from the banks of Lothlorien.

No repair of the K-D problem yet, though we have some new leads as to what the trouble may be.

Fanfic readers' notice:

The draft of Threshold's Chapter 9 is almost finished. I will send it along for beta-reading, schnookums, and that means YOU, Wendy! (--and Scarlet, and Pearl/Diamond of Long Cleeve) So look out, this week or next. I thank the three of you again, in advance :) , for your generosity with your time as well as your faithful, skillful and insightful work as critical readers.

Edited to add:

Ruby! I forgot to say, Hi! Yes, it's great that Frodo was so honoured! He's the BEST!!!

~ Mechtild
Last edited by mechtild on Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby neenersh » Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:13 am

Ereshkigal um Hayden be lookin fine. Can't wait until episode 3!

I'm feeling rather stalker-ish with all my visits to Santa Monica... Swoon for life*
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Postby Lembas_Junkie » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:03 pm

Mech! *sniff* You move me with your words of kindness! :grouphug: Thank you!

Hey, Neenersh, if you like what you see in Erech's sig pic, you should head over to starwars.com; they now have Ep.3 teaser trailer for our viewing pleasure. That steely, simmery, dark look suits Mr. Christensen very well indeed! :D

Lembas
:)

p.s. He looks good in make-up, too...just watch Life as a House and see for yourself! Hubba bubba! =:)
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Postby Texas-hobbit » Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:46 pm

Well, I decided to do the "restore point" trick to be able to get online. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that TORC is not carrying any viruses.

Ummm. Come Hither Week. Maewyn, very nice choice! :P

I missed MOME ceremonies, but want to thank the several of you who emailed me with details of Frodo’s win! Whooo-hooo! Congrats, Lembas! And mech is right, her Fan award could be shared by several who made sure Frodo had the adulation he deserved. I thought everyone did an excellent job! I would be disappointed that Sam didn’t share the award, but I see Prim/Sam won a very appropriate recognition. Prim did speak with Sam’s true voice, didn’t she? I was happy to accept the Press Award on Lobelia’s behalf, although the dear managed to file only one actual story with her editor. Oh, well. At least she has a sheaf of notes, should she ever decide to write her memoirs. :P

Wendy, if ever Nazzie’s congregation took a peek at her “portrait” which you posted during the dance sequence, well wouldn’t she have some s’plainin to do! :rofl: When I finish here, I'll go over to the OOC to thank the judges and congratulate the other winners. I will also ask for a "reveal" of all the anonymous posters, such as Louie the Raccoon, Tom's da Bomb (was that you, mech?), and a few others.

*ears prick up* Eresh, Jude Law, you say? Rrrrowwwer! :) I'm not a Star WArs fan beyond the first three, which were great. From what I've read, the die-hard fans have not been served well by Lucas' most recent writing. Too bad. I hope the next one improves, for the fans' sake.

neenersh, good to see you again! And what do you mean by your Santa Monica comment? Just curious. :P

Anyone seen daronisgod lately?

nienor, by the time I learned of the Houston LotR Symphony, it was too late to get tickets! :x I was so aggravated with myself! You said you enjoyed it. Was Howard Shore conducting? Has he done all of them or only certain ones?

Lord S., you tell that handsome young man, the one wearing the very appropriately labeled baseball cap, that Tex is awaiting his first e-mail. Tex can at least access email at work, if not other online frivolities. And by the way, you are one of the few folks who actually uses the "subject" line. I chuckled at all of yours! :D

Naz although I don't own Photoshop, I'm with Lembas on that one. I've heard you can do wonderful things with it. I'm pretty primitive, only having the basic MS Paint and another program that came loaded on my computer (MS Picture It, which lets me layer things, add speech bubbles and resize for the web, but that's about all). I have to put cropped items into a Word document to get their white backgrounds transparent before I layer them. So many sigs involve toggling back and forth between those 3 programs. A pain, but do-able. I may get myself something better for Christmas. :D

And about your RL laments, we understand. You have an important role as mother and pastor to see to, so if you are gone for periods of time, always remember, we are waiting for the moments you can spare to drop back in and say hi. I have a feeling that shortly after the EE comes out, more of us will make a little extra time for TORC, even if it is in the wee hours of the morning. But no one can keep up a pace like that for long. We'll be in and out, all of us, but we can still know that even if the pace slows up, we still have friends out there (here, rather) with this compelling interest which will bring us back together from time to time. I have so enjoyed finding people who love the character of Frodo as much as I do. :)

Wendy all the "art" links in MOME added an elevated sensibility to the whole affair (although the Naz link made me glad I wasn't eating or drinking anything when I clicked on it...my family would have found me asphyxiated on the floor, gone from this life with a big grin on a very blue face). Also, I'm actually considering replacing Scarlet's marbled version of the "shadow Lij" pict, which is now my desktop, with your "oil" version of "Come Hither". It would be hard to part with Scarlet's permanently, so I may just toggle between the two. :P

mech said:
I already have written here about how distressing I found and continue to find the remarks of viewers who want to tell me how Frodo fell short, wasn't a hero and that Sam would have been able to chuck in that Ring just fine, had he been given it, instead. So, silly as it seems, if Frodo were not named "Male of Middle Earth," in this frivolous little pagaent, I would have taken it as another slight in a procession of slights.
Like Eresh, I'd say that's a common sentiment among Frodo lovers. I am still unhappy about some of the scenes in the films, and find I must fast forward through a few. There were some decisions made about Frodo's character which I still truly do not understand. I've never heard an adequate explantion given about why PJ made some of the choices he did. I don't know if I will ever be reconciled to it. None of this can be blamed on the actor of course. But it still aggravates me.

Oh, and mech, I did risk taking Wendy's link to KD to read your post there. Wow! That is a wonderful piece of writing, especially the supermarket analogy. I recommend everyone should take the link to read it!
I had forgotten Sean's book was out and now I'm quite curious to read it. Would you recommend buying it? In a way, I find myself reluctant to read anything which taints the vision I have of a perfectly functioning family of actors, crew, etc., that impression gained from the commentaries and extras. I don't want the bubble burst just yet, even though I know that any family, real or symbolic, can have dissension and still be healthy. I know everything couldn't have been perfect, but I like this idea of the PJ "fellowship" all getting along in NZ. I'm willing to be delusional for awhile longer. Would this book depress me? :?

I have never seen Radio Flyer or actually, very many of Elijah's "youth" films. I must set about hunting some of them down right after I have seen the EE and every frame of the accompanying Extras. And oh, do I ever hope they give us some bloopers and some "new" stuff on the Extras. Some of the last have overlapped or repeated the same information and I want fresh shots, new stories and more anecdotes from the cast. Can't wait.

Way back there, I forgot to mention that I'm pretty sure Wilma is from Canada. :) Or at least, Wilma, I seem to remember that your appearance with your Farscape table was broadcast on Canadian TV. Am I right about that? RubyS do you mind our knowing what your home country is? :)


Maewyn, be sure to let us know when your son arrives home safely from Bali! I'm sure he's having a great time! :)

Sheesh, this is long! I must go read the final MOME posts and make my responses in the OOC. And by the way, I note there are a number of Star Wars/Star Trek fans among us. The November Theme is a reprise of Your Inner Geek and from Prim's sig, there seems to be a Star Wars or Star Trek focus right now. Maybe some of you might want to pop in there and declare your geekiness. It will be much less complex a thing than MOME; no role-playing required, unless one wishes. :D

See y'all later!
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Postby Maewyn » Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:14 am

Hello Everyone!

Well, considering I started "Come Hither II Week" I've been pretty lax about providing pics to help Eresh get her collection re-started.

Here are a few to make up for my tardiness.

Swoon 1

Swoon 2

Swoon 3

OK, so this one isn't a "come hither", but I'm sure I'll be forgiven once you've seen it! (Make sure you enlarge it.)
Swoon 4


Maewyn :)
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Postby nienor*lalaith » Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:37 am

Texas-hobbit wrote:nienor, by the time I learned of the Houston LotR Symphony, it was too late to get tickets! :x I was so aggravated with myself! You said you enjoyed it. Was Howard Shore conducting? Has he done all of them or only certain ones?


It is a shame you weren't able to go to that showing. It was brilliant, definately a high point in my summer, year, life. My sister (who is a big LOTR fan as well) and I were tearing up during the entire thing, and we felt like such wimps, until we looked around and saw that everyone else was wiping away tears too. Unfortunately, Howard Shore was not conducting...it would have been an enormous honor if he had. I know that he has conducted several other showings, but not all of them.

I am still unhappy about some of the scenes in the films, and find I must fast forward through a few. There were some decisions made about Frodo's character which I still truly do not understand. I've never heard an adequate explantion given about why PJ made some of the choices he did. I don't know if I will ever be reconciled to it. None of this can be blamed on the actor of course. But it still aggravates me.


Which scenes do you fast forward through? While the films definately have their flaws, they have never made me uncomfortable enough to not watch them.

I have never seen Radio Flyer or actually, very many of Elijah's "youth" films.


I've seen Forever Young, pieces of Avalon, Huck Finn, I saw The Good Son a long time ago, and caught almost all of North on cable. Later films like Deep Impact may not fit into the 'child actor' slot, I guess. I'm looking at his filmography on imdb.com, and I'm realizing how many of his movies I haven't seen.

I must set about hunting some of them down right after I have seen the EE and every frame of the accompanying Extras. And oh, do I ever hope they give us some bloopers and some "new" stuff on the Extras. Some of the last have overlapped or repeated the same information and I want fresh shots, new stories and more anecdotes from the cast. Can't wait.


I'm afraid they've left out the bloopers once more, much to my dismay as well. I've heard rumors about PJ wanting to release yet another DVD with all sorts of goodies, such as the long-anticipated bloopers, audition tapes (I would love to see Elijah's infamous tape!), etc., in the coming year or two, but I'm not sure if that's 100% true.

My first contrubution to Come Hither...angsty way

Take care everyone!

~n*l
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Postby NazgulRus » Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:54 pm

Thanks, Mech for the kind words about my post in MOME. And Lembas, great job on your final wrap up, as well, and CONGRATS again!! And to Tex, Prim, and Mech as well!!!

Eresh: I agree wholeheartedly about Star Wars. Another favorite of my father's, he got me out of school to see the premiere of Return of the Jedi. My husband and I, all those years later, went to see Episode 1 at 12 am at the Mall of America (we were living in MN then) and I was interviewed on TV for the big event--I told them that if my dad were alive he'd be disappointed to see me anywhere but right where I was.

Too bad that movie SUCKED! Honestly, episode 3 can't be worse, as you said.


Aw, Tex: :grouphug: That's all I've got to say about that!

What is this incriminating picture of me made by Wendy? Can someone please explain? EDIT: I figured it out. Duh--I thought those were just headliners in her story. What a world of fun you all opened up for me in Wendy's posts!

And I have some news: Just when you thought 9 was more than Middle Earth could handle, I am pleased to announce that baby Nazgul will be arriving in May. And after that picture of Wendy's there's really no doubt how this happened, is there? The big question is....will it have Frodo's eyes? :twisted:

Nazzie
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Postby AquilaChrysaetos » Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:15 pm

Hello everyone! Can't stay long tonight, so it's just a fly by swoon to let you all know I'm still alive. :lol: I've had a sort of unofficial net ban, so I'm just using the time while everyone's out to catch up. Heh.

I just couldn't help but have a belated celebrate for the man of Middle Earth;
Well done Frodo!

Eresh - I must just say that I appreciate your sig pic. My my, doesn't young Darth look a dish? :) It must be the long hair.

Enjoying everyone elses contributions to 'Come Hither II' week aswell. Just wish I could participate.

One last thing, Naz I have the agree with the people who recommended photoshop. I used to use it a lot with my computer art, but alas, no more, and I miss it, it's an amazing program. :)

Well, must be off now, I hope to get back on here soon.
Swoooooooon for Frodo. :)
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Postby Ereshkigal » Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:53 pm

NazgulRus wrote:And I have some news: Just when you thought 9 was more than Middle Earth could handle, I am pleased to announce that baby Nazgul will be arriving in May. And after that picture of Wendy's there's really no doubt how this happened, is there? The big question is....will it have Frodo's eyes? :twisted:

Nazzie


Naz! You're expecting! AAAWWWWWW! My friend Pam just had a baby, and I had forgotten how wonderful they are to snuggle. Sigh.

I hope you have a wonderful, problem free pregnancy! Congratulations.

Also, Mae, thanks for those pics. I loved # 4! He has such pretty little baby teeth, just like Barrie's description of Peter Pan. I wished he showed them more often when he smiled.

And you know what they say about the coltish tooth (gap), don't you?

Cutey.

SW:) :) :) :) :) :) :) N!
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Postby NazgulRus » Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:23 pm

Thanks, Eresh!! I told Leah, my 21 month old today that "mommy has a baby in her belly." She looked at me like I was completely insane. hee hee. Right now she picks up her baby doll by the neck--we need to train some more!!

Maewyn: just looked at your pics. Ahhhhh.....ooohhhhh......!!!!!!

Anyone catch LOTR on WB the other night? Why do I watch these things when I own the DVD? I don't know!

N
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Postby mechtild » Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:48 pm

Naz! You are with child! How wonderful! Never mind, will the baby have Frodo's eyes. Will it have Frodo's action figure? :twisted: But, if the baby is a girl, I'd stick with the eyes.

Ereshkigal, here's a shot of teen EW in his preparing-for-come-hither days. It's one Scarlet once linked, which I just loved. He looks so sweeeeeeet, the little cutie pie.

http://www.bagendinn.com/Elijah/images/ ... Table3.jpg

In honour of Wendy, here's an image of a 19th century painting by Pierre Auguste Cot, which I linked at K-D. It's a lovely shot of Lady Wendy, gloating over Frodo, the both of them dressed up Greek style. (Did Greeks have swings? I don't know.) Just look at that minx's face! He may be sending out "come hither" vibes, but it's she whose face DEMANDS that Frodo, "Come Hither!"

Wicked, forward, naughty, lucky Wendy! (It may have one of those "buttons" to enlarge it, in the lower right corner.)

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... D%26sa%3DG

Aquila, it's good to see you stick your head around the door. Good luck on greater access.

nienor, I am so happy you got to the symphony in Houston. But I am sorry you didn't get to see Howard Shore conduct. He's half the fun. In case you weren't here during the "EW's early films" discussions, my faves for seeing his work are "The War," "The Ice Storm," and "Radio Flyer." "Avalon" is an awfully good film, but his part is not large. The Good Son is full of practice for LotR, as is The Faculty (but EW gets to fight Shelob, not Sam, in that one :wink: ). Many love him in "Huck Finn," (ask Ereshkigal :lol: ), in which he is very animated and cute off the charts. I haven't seen "Day-O" or "North," or some of his later stuff (Black and White, Chain of Fools, Bumblebee..., etc.); Eresh has seen some, though. He's always worth watching, with one exception, in my estimation. Which I won't mention, since some folks here really like it. Why be a party-pooper?

Maewyn, those four are classics. And I love the bottom one -- I have it in my files, too.

Tex, nope, I wasn't Tom's da Bomb. I thought that was one of Elwe's personnas. But, then, I thought you or Lembas were Fell Beast, and you weren't. So don't listen to me!

Let me see. Scenes of Frodo's you have to fast forward through.... Weathertop? Osgiliath? "Go home, Sam?" Those are the most inflaming ones, judging from threads. I don't fast-forward through ANY of them, m'self. I just love him in all those scenes, even if I disapprove of the scenes themselves. There are a few moments in the three films when I close my eyes, but none of them are Frodo's. (Gandalf whacks Denethor; Legolas surfs down the steps of Helm's Deep; Gimli whacks orc's crotch with ax; I think those are all of them, for me.)

Your wrote of Sean Astin's book,

Would this book depress me?

I shouldn't think so, unless you are an avid Sean Astin fan. My initial reaction, starting in the middle of the book (I read the beginning and end later), was one of aggravation, even anger. I did a lot of eye-rolling.

I was agog that Sean could publish such a badly written book and was embarrassed for him on that account. The content was even more embarrassing -- but for him, not for his co-workers. I was agog that he was so indiscreet about himself (letting the world know what a ninnyhammer he was and often is) and about others (e.g. telling so much about Stuart Townsend's problems on the set and his firing; I'll bet Stu is saying, "Thanks alot, A**HOLE!"; criticising the work of other artist's whose feet he ought to be kissing -- such as John Howe). And, because the book makes Sean look bad, I did worry that it would reflect poorly on LOTR, in general.

But, no, Sean's book doesn't ruin the sense of fellowship that was there during the filming. If anything, he portrays a tight, friendly -- if beleaguered and over-worked -- cast and crew. It's just that he usually portrays himself as not fully onboard with the rest of them, due to being a family man, but mostly due to his own inner angsting and struggles with envy and jealously, due to what appears to be a cominbination of deep insecurity about himself, and overweening, misguided (I think) personal ambition.

So, go ahead and read it, Tex. But it really is a pretty poor book. (I got mine out of the library, so it was a free read, too. :D )

~ Mechtild
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Postby Wilma » Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:07 pm

Hello Ladies!!! I've come to swoon and Thank God Frodo won for MOME!!!
Woohoo!!!!
Yes I'm from Canada:D
I should say that in Farscape there is nothing average or middle. In an average Farscape episode emotions run to the extreme. They also do this to the audience. Either you're really shocked or really happy or something. Most Farscape fans say the producer of Farscape. David Kemper is Eeeeeevil. Here's a littlepiece of Propaganda
Anyway they had a story for next season which spanned over 22 episodes, which was crunched into 3 and a half, so right after I was utterly shocked and still have mixed fellings abou it. But my scapers are comforting me.

After reading the funfacts about EW thread I realized he'd probably fall in love with the female lead on Farscape, Claudia Black (black haired lady in my sig. She's also quite fanous for her voice which is quite low and her accent, which a combination of Brithish and Australian. To say the least I've met many men obsessed with her.

Anyway, I discovered that Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind will be having a special edition, coming out in January.
Swoooooooooooon for Frodo :)
Edit to add: CONGRATULATIONS NAZ!!!!! (I wonder what a baby Nazgul would look like.
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Postby WendyLadyofLothlorien » Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:25 am

NAZGUL...CONGRATULATIONS !!!

You are managing to do what The One Husband and I have been trying to do for about five years now..
Well done indeed
(A baby Nazgul...now there's a thought )

I'm so glad you discovered that my 'titles' were in fact, links to pictures....and the one of you just seemed SO right...something of the Night about that one !!!

Mechtild...
I'm looking at this thread in the work Internet cafe, and when I opened your link to that Auguste Pierre-Cot picture, ( which I couldn't resist because it IS absolutely FAB ) to my utter surprise, "Access Denied" popped up, with the explanation that there was content on that website entitled "Racism and Hate"... :shock: :shock: :shock:

This is of course, very against the Partnership Principles, as you'd expect from such a major employer in the UK, still, I was flabbergasted...this IS an Artsite, right ?
How extraordinary...I'll have to open it at home to see exactly what they mean !!!
(Sometimes these Internet filters DO do the most weird things...)
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Postby Delphinus » Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:29 am

Hi all

First of all, a belated congrats to Lembas and Frodo - Man of Middle Earth!! I am sooo happy for you both! Lembas, your last post had me :cry: and it really was beautifully written.

NAZ!!! So many congratulations on your news!! I really hope all goes well. I'm feeling quite broody myself at the moment, so if you ever need an English babysitter, just send them on over!

Eresh - I've got my fingers crossed for the next Star Wars as well. Although I feel completely pessimistic about it and am finding it hard to muster up any hope at all, I agree it really can't be any worse can it?? For any other films (well, apart from LotR) I wouldn't have bothered going to see Episode II after the first appalling prequel, but I did and I have to say Episode II was the first film I ever very nearly walked out of. Uurrrgghhh, the "love" scenes were absolutely terrible! The acting was cringeworthy! The script in general was awful! I thank the stars that Elijah never became a part of these films, can you imagine what it would have done to his career as a serious actor? (See how I brought my ramblings back on topic there!) :wink:

Maewyn - I love your Swoon pics! Well, I'm not sure about "Swoon 4". I really like the expression on his face, but he looks a little pink. And his eyes look like they haven't got any pupils. Heck, I still wouldn't say no! :P

Mech regarding Sean Astins "book"-

Mechtild wrote: My initial reaction, starting in the middle of the book (I read the beginning and end later), was one of aggravation, even anger. I did a lot of eye-rolling.


This was exactly my reaction as well. I read your thoughts at KD, which Wendy linked and, as everyone else did, thought it was a great post. You wrote:

Sean’s envy and jealousy, impatience and sheer foolishness; his sheer obtuseness about the possibility that others might not think along the same driven lines as he, all were most forcefully on view here.


Yes! All through my reading of Sean's book, I could feel my blood pressure rising (and can now when I think of it) :x . I was sooo angry with him for what I perceived as his fakeness. Not to mention that it was an incredibly badly written book. I wrote a post in Movies about it, not nearly as eloquent as you wrote, but here is the essence of it, so I don't have to type my feelings out again…

Sean Astin & Ian Holm autobiographies

I've actually read most of this book now (mainly only the LOTR parts), but I must say that Astin left me feeling a little queasy. The abiding impression I am left with is of him constantly complaining about how he thought he wasn't getting enough screen time and masking this bitterness with well-placed platitudes. I might be being completely unfair, but when he says these things and then quickly afterwards states that it was actually his problem - he just doesn't sound sincere. He didn't just say it once either, it seems that all the way through these films he was thinking this.

The Sean Astin he presents to us in this book gives off an air of false humility, in my opinion. It seems like he has quite a high sense of self-worth (the chapter where he describes waiting for notification that he was Oscar-nominated was quite illuminating) and absolutely believes he deserves the utmost praise. A belief in your own abilities and talents is obviously a good thing to have, but I'm not sure that expecting praise and rewards because of this is an admirable trait. Of course he was great as Sam and I really enjoyed his performance (at least most of the time), however I can't help thinking that he feels the attention that was given to him was long overdue.

<snip>

Anyway, my opinion is no more than my opinion, but to me it is glaringly clear that Sean Astin has aspirations and an aptitude for politics. Much of what he said sounded like posturing and was directed to encourage people to underestimate and pity him.


Anyway, I didn't really feel that I got a real sense of his relationship with Elijah - I found no depth to his descriptions of his relationships, but from what he did say, Sean definitely seemed to love Elijah like a brother and I think Elijah was probably good for him. Like you said here, Mech -

Sean sounds like a person of extremes. Elijah seems able to proceed from a core of moderation.


Just imagine if Elijah was a stereotypical actor with a very high self-opinion, I'm not sure that Sam and Frodo's relationship could have survived that on screen.

It's just that he usually portrays himself as not fully onboard with the rest of them, due to being a family man, but mostly due to his own inner angsting and struggles with envy and jealously, due to what appears to be a cominbination of deep insecurity about himself, and overweening, misguided (I think) personal ambition.


Absolutely. Couldn't have put it better myself. :D


Cor, listen to me blathering on! And this is a monster post so I will disappear…

P.S. Sw00n for Frodo!

Wendy - Just seen your post and I can't get into that site either from work :( Inappropriate content or something :?
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Postby Maewyn » Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:11 am

Hello Everyone.

First, congratulations to Naz! What wonderful news! Now I think I know why you asked me what my boys names were a little while back! :wink: Well there's a 50/50 chance you'll have one!

Delphinus - I chose that picture because he looks so natural and happy. I love the way his eyes are "squinched" up, which happens with a genuinely happy smile.

Mechtild - I just love that painting by Pierre Auguste Cot! It could so easily be Frodo! And everyone looking at it would be wishing she were the young woman beside him!

Re Sean's book - I've just started reading it, so I'll reserve my judgement until I've finished.

Well, must be off - goodnight all!


Maewyn :)
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Postby NazgulRus » Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:44 am

Thank you all for your kind congratulations!!

Maewyn, I really just wanted to know your kids' names, I'm not sure i knew then that I might have a boy with his very own Frodo.

Delphy, I love the expression "feeling quite broody". We'll be over for some babysitting and tea soon... :)

And all this discussion about Sean's book, I'm going right out to buy it today. It sounds bad but juicy in a sick sort of way. (I'm going to pick up Tolkien's Letter's too, finally, since I feel guilty that I never have read them).

Wendy, it took us 10 years before we had Leah. Sure is fun trying, eh? Blessings to you, you would be a fantastic mom I can tell!

Why doesn't ELIJAH write a book? Oh, I'd love that.
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Postby mechtild » Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:53 am

Nazzie, I think, since you might be feeling queazy, you should lay off the corn dogs for a while, but you can treat the rest of us to a round. =:) For your possible pleasure, Tex has talked me into it; I will post my "Sean Astin" posts from K-D. We weren't discussing Sean's book over here, so I lurked in discussions over there, finally sounding off at length, twice. Maewyn has heard it all, since she reads the thread over there. Wendy, too. (Ereshkigal, were you lurking in K-D, then? P.S. did you see those two great "Mikey" head shots in there, with his hair flying? If not, I'll link them for you, knowing how you love that Mikey hair; me, too! :twisted: .) Delphinus, you will hear many echos of what you wrote yourself. But, what the heck. It's slow in here.

Here's the first post I wrote, quite incensed over the book, There and back Again: An Actor's Tale. My second post is the one that Tex took her quotes from, in which I was somewhat more moderate.

Note: Spoilers....

Post # 1, 10-25-04

Mariole [a poster there], I have started reading from the middle of Sean Astin's book, looking first for any E.W. stuff, natch. I'm reading from the middle, out. When I am finished I will want to say a few things. But for now, I, like you, have to wonder if Sean is "all there," to have published this. I could see how he might have written it for a therapist -- but only for a therapist -- to see, who is trained not to show his/her true feelings about his patient.

First, there's the sheer badness of the writing. How could his family have let him publish this? -- Maybe it's a massive, very public effort to do a "crisis intervention" on their parts :roll: , to let him publish this. Once he crashes and burns from the negative reviews, they figure, he'll HAVE to seek professional help. I marvel, like others of you, at the way Sean continually frames his recollections (about Peter Jackson, about Ian McKellen, etc.) in terms of his being their peers in greatness -- or potential greatness -- but, why-can't-they-see-it?

The account of going to Peter Jackson's with Ian McKellen to see the animatics was full of one embarrassing remark after another -- Sean makes himself sound like a total fool. I'm sure he didn't come across that way during the filming, or they would have fired him in a heart-beat. What a shame he's telling it all now! He can't know how he sounds, poor lad.

All the LotR people reading this must be both floored by his arrogant presumption, and, moved to pity by the spectacle of his pathetic, naked, desperately needy power-and-influence-grubbing (or attempts to do so) -- all on full display! This section, I found almost painful to read; poor, beknighted Sean!

Reading, I kept thinking of the great trial scene in the old, A Man for All Seasons film, in which Sir Thomas More (Paul Scofield) has just been betrayed to his death by Richard Rich (John Hurt), who is desperate to "Be Somebody," perjuring himself to become attourney general of Wales. I always had a soft spot for poor Richard Rich, and felt sorry for him, yet, he was a dangerous and pathetic man. Thomas More has a great line, which he speaks wryly but with sympathy to Richard, after Richard has falsely testified against him:

"Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world... but for Wales?"

I think, in his book, Sean Astin sounds more like the character of Richard Rich than anyone else I can think of.

It's a shame how much time Sean spent with really talented, really interesting, really enjoyable people yet failed to enjoy it himself, so obsessed was he with trying to second-guess their motives and attitudes towards them, and especially trying to figure out how they got their "power." He seems given up to both intense envy, and to intense, worshipful admiration for those he thinks have power, and, for how they wield it. Trying to get and exert power seems to overwhelm and consume him (good thing he never got the Ring!!!). He seems obsessed by the desire for it, while, at the same time, he feels robbed -- or kept from -- it. ("It could have been mine; it should have been mine, but by unhappy chance!")

Sean Astin, in public office?

"Save us, Mr. Frodo, noooo!”

Sean plays at "humility" over and over, but it is not genuine. It's just a prophylactic protestation, I think. Although he constantly opens with self-effacing pronouncements, that he's-not-worthy, and, he's-not-in-their-league, etc., these seem to me to be attempts to demonstrate to the readers that he's “onto himself;” that, whatever we think, he's thought of it first (*whip whip whip* -- such showy self-flagellations!) -- but really, they are meant to give him carte blanche, so he can say whatever he feels like.... "See? I have admitted I'm pathetic, so that gives me permission to spew like this!" But it's merely a device, I suspect.

I still have half the book to go, so I do not say that with final assurance.

But the things Sean says! My jaw dropped, reading his dismissal of an artist like John Howe. In black and white! I pictured Howe (or Alan Lee or Peter Jackson or Richard Taylor, all of whom he seems to worship) reading that and really feeling p***ed off -- except John H. would more likely be thinking, what a total jerk Sean must be to have said so in print.

Sean does this over and over. When he isn't practically kissing someone's *** with over-the-top praise and adoration, he's undercutting them with dismissive remarks about how he's as good as they are or could be or should be. His assessments seem to swing from delusions of grandeur to abject, flamboyant, attention-getting self-abasement -- with nothing in between -- about others and about himself.

Looking at some more of the book, it occurred to me that Sean could have said almost everything he did -- all the overweening I'm-envious-and-jealous-and-unappreciated true confessions -- and gotten away with it IF he had done it with a sense of humour. I read through a paragraph and re-imagined the same thoughts written by a person with a sharp, self-aware sense of humour, and it actually might have worked. But Sean, in his writing, takes himself so absolutely seriously. *Sigh*

I do just love his work as Sam. I will be sorry to think that people will not want to work with him after reading this. And I am sorry, most of all, that he revealed himself so pitifully to the very people whose good opinion he most salivated to win. How I wish this had never been published.

~ Mechtild
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Postby mechtild » Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:24 am

OK, here's the second post I wrote in K-D. That was when I was unable to access the site for a whole week; I emailed it to Zazinka (Flourish at K-D), who posted it for me. I felt bad, having softened towards Sean by the end of the book, leaving such a diatribe on the boards.

More spoliers....

Here's that post, the one Tex linked (with corrections, while I was at it :) ):

Post # 2, 11/07/04

Dear Faculty-ites,

Flourish [Zazinka at TORC] copied and pasted some of your recent discussions, since I still can’t open any of K-D’s site. *sniff* Since fixing it may take forever, I wanted to go on record to say, having finally finished Sean Astin’s book, I wanted to tone down my negative remarks made a few weeks back. I still think it poorly written and wonder why his editor or co-writer didn’t take more responsibility for shaping it up better, but, oh well. I thank Flourish for copying and posting this into the thread, on my behalf.

My impressions changed as I progressed through the book, chronologically. At first, I thought this was so, simply because Sean was finally talking about his time on LotR. But then I scribbled on my notepad, “Sean’s book seems to be rising to the level of his content.” The extreme callowness I saw in the opening chapters seemed lessened in the later ones, which covered his progress, deep into the filming and then its wrap-up and promotion, up to the Oscars.

The nadir, for me, of his self-presentation had been in those chapters describing his early weeks on the job in New Zealand, in which he most revealed his near idol-worship of Peter Jackson -- and anyone else who seemed to exude power and command -- nearly salivating onto the page with need and the lust to have these things himself (approximately, chapters 6-10). Sean’s envy and jealousy, impatience and sheer foolishness; his obtuseness about the possibility that others might not think along the same driven lines as he, all were most forcefully on view here. That was the point in my reading at which I wrote that derogatory post 10/25.

But, by the time he got to chapter 11, I thought I heard Sean speaking much more about his fellow artists with true appreciation, and not just in terms of wound-licking, self-comparing anguish. It was obvious to me that he admired Elijah, but not Elijah only. He says very complimentary things about many of the actors. Not too much in terms of acting about Elijah, though, but I’ll get to that later.

The most happy Sean ever seemed in this book, was in the material in ch. 14. He could say, as he did on p. 226, of the very happy group dinner they shared at a nice restaurant,

See, we’re all just colleagues after all; they really do care about me and want to spend time with me.”

He tells there what he really cares about -- being valued as an artist and cared for as a person.

“I remember feeling like my value as an actor was perceived as important that night,” he says on the same page.

Back on p. 57, he had stated that first, he was an actor, “acting is my craft, my profession, and my passion.” Would that he could hold onto that thought more often.

As to being valued as a person, a passage that stood out for me was on the next page, in which he tells about how, after getting the wound in his foot in the near-drowning scene, Peter presented him with a Maori walking stick from the crew, because Sean came back to work right away.

“I have to tell you, when Peter handed me that stick, I felt like the king of New Zealand. It was one of the best moments of the entire production.”

That Sean felt valued personally is implied throughout the book, by the fidelity of the other actors shown towards him in spite of his difficulties as a personality, is not made explicit very often. Sean noted on p. 242, that he normally needed reams of positive feedback to feel good about himself as an actor during the shoot, but that on a production of this scale, in which he was not a star, he had to learn to do without it, or try to. I see this as very typical-actor stuff; nothing unusual. Even that he was disappointed in his relationship with Jackson, however unrealistically (p. 226):

“It wasn’t Peter’s job to be my friend or mentor, even if that’s what I wanted,”

I see that as a common, normal sentiment. Everyone wants the boss/teacher whom they admire to think well of them, to think them special, etc. In spite of having to live without as much attention from the director as he wanted, I think it sounds as though Sean, the actor and friend, was truly satisfied, working and living in the company of Elijah, Billy and Viggo, etc.

BUT, at the same time, Sean seemed continually to make himself miserable over all the other bull ****, all that stuff about being the Best and Biggest and the most successful -- with, “why didn’t I make this business move,” or, “why didn’t I grab that opportunity” -- and not some other? I am talking about all that desire and driven-ness that comes out in his obsessing over whether he'll ever get to be the millionaire artist-industrialist he has set up as a golden idol for himself. This intense, almost erotic desire seems to me to have been what made him continually unhappy – with himself and with his lot -- making him difficult for others to tolerate -- at least, whenever he was in the throes of it.

Who wants to be a “friend and mentor” to someone so driven by what is, necessarily, an opportunistic obsession?

I think all of you have noted that Sean, although he speaks very highly of Elijah Wood throughout, doesn’t say much about EW’s acting gifts, while he does regarding Sir Ian, Ian Holm, Viggo, Billy, Dom, Bernard and, especially, Andy -- whose sheer determination and zeal he greatly admired and would like to emulate (esp. toward becoming the next “artist-industrialist”!). I don't, however, think this should be interpreted as a slighting of EW as an actor, in Sean's eyes. I think that this is because, what Sean admires most about Elijah, is something that hasn't anything directly to do with his acting, but which Sean sees as uniquely pronounced in EW.

Many of you have noted in EW; what I am going to call a quality or attribute of “detachment,” or equanimity.” Some of you have related this to EW’s perceived humility; others, to his self-confidence. Sean points with admiration (and envy), to EW’s “poise,” his unflappable-ness in the midst of apparent chaos; he criticises Elijah's blitheness towards physical dangers but with a reluctant admiration he cannot hide (although EW is not described as a “dare devil,” like Orlando).

Then, there is EW's “self-confidence.” Sean said that he and Elijah could “slack” on the repeated preliminary takes (p. 220), when EW felt it was necessary to preserve his energy so he could pour it on later, no matter how that might look on set. (This was what angered Andy--that the two would hold back during their takes with him, so they'd have "enough" for the final pass. After Andy unbosomed to them about how he felt, they stopped doing that.)

Elijah really seemed to know what he was capable of, and could, prudently, marshal his reserves accordingly, without sweating over the decision to do so. For he could tap those reserves, when it was called for. On p. 273, Sean tells how, when it came time to do the actual filming of the Osgiliath sequence and Sam’s “Great tales” speech in TTT, which Sean had been panting and thrilled to do, he came up dry. Somehow, it wasn’t clicking for Sean; they did twenty-five takes. And E.W., he said, was fully invested in every take, as Sean struggled. Sean wrote,

"When we finally finished, Elijah gave me a hug and said, 'That was hard, wasn’t it.' But he was so patient. It was a strong Sam moment, and I needed his help and inspiration to get through it."

Now, if that isn’t high professional -- as well as personal -- praise and appreciation of his co-actor, I don’t know what is.

But in everything, by comparison with Elijah (and with the rest of them, though to a much lesser degree), Sean sounds like a person of extremes. Elijah seems able to proceed from a core of moderation; Sean sounds almost like a manic-depressive type; experiencing alternating fits of manic effort and periods of inertia.

These would be mirrored in/exacerbated by Seans' body-image. Feeling fired up = working out and dieting. Feeling uninspired = not working out and eating whatever he wanted. He seemd to swing between both of them, in an obsessive-compulsive manner. Buff = valuable. Fat = worthless. No wonder he made such a big deal over those 30 pounds! But he show he's just an all-American citizen, in the end; so many Americans share the very same neurotic thing about weight and worth.

From this book and elsewhere, Elijah Wood the actor seems NOT to be an obsessive compulsive worker, or person. He seems, in fact, to have an air of what Frodo, the character, will be sent to Tol Eressëa to acquire, after his tainting by the Ring. I mean that, EW seems, already, at a young age, to have a lively sense of himself “within the greater scheme of things,” wherever he is; “of both his smallness and his greatness.” So, he can be described as both "very humble" and "very self-confident," at the same time. He seems ready for anything – almost heedless -- yet, is somehow still moderate: reliable and dependable, in the eyes of his friends and employers/directors. He’s open; telling the most outrageous stuff on himself — almost flamboyantly so. Yet, he seems, essentially, to be a private person, keeping back what truly matters to him. Even with all the stuff he unbosomed in interviews -- about peeing off fountains, stopping off for porn and chocolates and getting his testicles checked -- he somehow manages to seem an essentially modest person. He really does seem to possess an undue degree of “perspective,” “detachment,” and “equanimity” -- which makes him seem very in touch with reality.

Sean, however, seems to have tremendous trouble with perspective, detachment and equanimity. “As was often the case, Elijah’s grasp on objectivity was superior to mine,” Sean wrote on p. 283.

No kidding. Sean sees himself as either too great or too little – which is out of touch with reality -- or, at least, with his relation to it. I hurt for Sean, as I read along, deeper and deeper into his telling, as I experienced with him his extreme hunger and thirst for all the things he desired, most of which seem ultimately unfruitful for him and/or unattainable. It makes the times when he messes up all the worse, because he allows it all to hit him so hard (e.g. the Time interview mess-up, the revealing of the tattoo mess-up, etc.).

Perhaps because of our recent election, I finished Sean’s book by seeing him as an archetypically American character, one which F. Scott Fitzgerald could have written. Raised and fed -- culturally, and perhaps at home -- with the typical extreme dream of American self-actualization, his perspective seems to exemplify that hard-core, raise-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps imperative.

Like so many of us here, Sean seems to try to approach living in the world as he were in a big superstore, in which all the consumers race to get the most and best, all out to grab up everything they can get or be thought slackers -- or worse -- fools if they do not. Here Sean is, panting and dying for a big-winner’s share of “The Best,” and “The Most,” racing up and down the aisles with his perfectly good but modest cart, heaping it full of junk food and half-price stuff, all jumbled in with the good, agonizing over his choices, but driven to race on, all the while jealously eyeing the “Titans” he reveres, who don’t even push their own carts, but have staff to push their huge, gleaming carts. Sean keeps looking at theirs, full of all the priciest and most desirable things, as he races up and down the aisles, frantically trying to find the same stuff before it’s all taken.

And in the midst of it all, he is nagged by the sight of his co-star. His co-star doesn’t have a cart at all, only one of those little hand-baskets; just taking what he thinks he actually needs; reading the labels, perhaps changing his mind, putting this or that back, getting the smaller size; just strolling along -- and beating them all to the check-out stand, without rushing or grabbing at all.

Sean can’t help but note and envy that fellow with only the simple hand-basket, who seems to end up with just what he needs (though no more), with plenty of time left over to check everything out and even talk to other shoppers along the way. But he just can’t seem to believe that this approach would work for him. It’s -- it's un-American! So, he HAS throw himself into this rat-race; he feels BOUND to do it -- that is, to try and be like the big-time shoppers he so admires and envies. Or, he fears, there will be nothing left, or not enough, for him to "win." Then, he will be the worst of American sinners: a Loser, a Failure. And, perhaps, according to his own fears, the very worst sort of American Loser/Failure of all: a Fat one.

How did Elijah Wood escape this cultural attitude so well? Home schooling? :P

~ Mechtild
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Postby WendyLadyofLothlorien » Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:36 am

Well,
I have returned home, and I'm sad to say that curiosity overcame any sense of caution...I opened that link that Mechtild gave us to that lovely Pierre August-Cot painting, just to see what the fuss was about...
Well...you could knock me down with a feather !!! Mech...did you know what kind of site you were ( unwittingly ? ) linking to ?
As a fervent believer in the inherent goodness and common sense of racial integration, and tolerence in all things cultural, this site really came as a shock... :shock:
White Supremacy ? Yep !!
Keep the Race pure ? Yep !!
A land especially for the White race for that purpose ? Yep !!
Paranoia ? You betcha !!!... :roll:

Wow...No wonder the John Lewis Internet Cafe computer blocked it !!
Being as how the John Lewis Partnership's main principle is equality for all, and profit-sharing for all ( Yay :D !!! ) and equal treatment for all people, regardless of sex, race, creed, or sexual proclivity, a site like this would go against all their main principles and would be regarded as incitement to racial hatred...

Please, Mechtild, say you were unaware what kind of site it was !! :cry: :cry: :cry:

Actually, it DOES have a very pretty page dedicated to couples as depicted in Art..you know, men and woman together just as it's meant to be ;) :roll: ...

( Yes..gay hatred usually goes hand in hand with racial hatred, methinks...)



And you thought it was just a nice pretty art-site...
Go look for yourself and you'll see what I mean...
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Postby nienor*lalaith » Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:02 pm

A belated congratulations to Naz! :)

NazgulRus wrote:And all this discussion about Sean's book, I'm going right out to buy it today. It sounds bad but juicy in a sick sort of way. (I'm going to pick up Tolkien's Letter's too, finally, since I feel guilty that I never have read them).


I'm interesting in reading it as well, even though I have never warmed up to 'Sean Astin', the actor, very much. In the DVD commentaries, in interviews, etc., he has just always seemed too full of himself to me. Don't get me wrong, I love his Sam, but to me his performance is far from the strongest ones in the trilogy. I was bewildered at his Oscar 'buzz', because they singled him out in the media and praised his performance so much, and I was sitting there thinking, what about Ian McKellan? Andy Serkis? Billy Boyd (who was simply wonderful in ROTK)? Elijah...?

Anyway, I'm still curious to see his take on the experience. I'm still very much enraptured at the actors' relashionship throughout filming, I love to think they really did become a fellowship, in a way.

I purchased the 'Letters' recently, and enjoyed it very much. It gives you a glimpse of who Tolkien was, his hardships, and his hopes for his work. I hope you enjoy it too. :)

~n*l
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Postby mechtild » Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:21 pm

For heaven's sake, Wendy!

You are right, I found the site, looking for images. I knew I was looking for Pierre Auguste Cot's "The Storm," to post in the Harem, on the usual lace I browse, Google Images. A number of versions came up, most of them too small. I clicked this one and got that page I linked from, with all the 19th century romantic stuff on it.

Well, now that I know, I will find another link!

Edited to add:

DONE! I have re-linked Cot's "Springtime" from another site. Whew!

Nienor, I don't agree about Sean's RotK performance, which I did think oscar-worthy. Just as Frodo was the character that "carried" FotR -- having the most distinct "character arc" in that film, and as Aragorn was the character with the greatesst dramatic arc in The Two Towers, I think Sam emerges as the character with the "arc" that shows the greatest dramatic range in The Return of the King.

When they were reviewing or nominating the performances in the films, as they were released, they focussed only upon the film before them. I said here before, I thought that as the films are seen as one huge work, more and more, critics and viewers will see, more and more, how magnificent and wide ranging was EW's work was as Frodo. But to appreciate it, one has to track its development across all three films. When they give out oscars, they only are looking at the one film, not all three. So, it made sense, to me, that Sean would be the likliest nominee for RotK, even though I wanted it to go to Elijah. Elijah's work could not be fully evaluated just from what the critic saw in RotK. It had to be looked at from the perspective of his work in FotR. But what Sean did in RotK showed almost the entire arc of his character, all in the one film. And I thought he did beautifully.

As for Ian McKellen never winning Best Supporting Actor, that was a shame. He was perfection.

~ Mechtild
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