Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

The Hobbit is in production as 3 separate films, and will be released 1 year apart, with the first due December 2012. Head in to discuss your thoughts and reactions, and post any questions you might have about these films.

Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Telemachos » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:11 pm

...the deep breath before the plunge...

It's suddenly December, which means I suddenly remember TORC, and old times, and fun times, and wonder how everyone is doing, and that (once again) I've finagled my way into an early BOTFA screening. (Tonight, Dec 2, in fact.) Is there any interest in questions being answered, or at this point is it merely "an hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of PJ comes crashing down!"

Anyways, I hope all of you (that I know) are well, and I hope to have some small acquaintance here with those I don't know, and I'll post a few thoughts on it later tonight, and will answer any questions, such as I can.

:)
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Re: Any interest in a Tele BOTFA review?

Postby AlatarVinyamar » Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:55 pm

Naturally! It wouldn't be the same without a Tele review!
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Re: Any interest in a Tele BOTFA review?

Postby Voronwe_the_Faithful » Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:20 pm

Of course. I was just wondering yesterday whether you would be seeing it early, and posting a review.
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Re: Any interest in a Tele BOTFA review?

Postby Nilson_The_White » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:16 pm

Does the film feel like it was actually finished, or did PJ just hand in what he had?
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Re: Any interest in a Tele BOTFA review?

Postby Telemachos » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:28 am

It feels finished, as much as you can say about any of his movies (or even movies in general).

My initial impressions are that it's the best of the three, though it's very much a part of the same. If you hated the first two, I don't think this film will make you dramatically change your mind. That being said, it felt like the most faithful of the three as well. There are digressions, and obviously invented sequences and characters, but for the most part events unfold in the order they do in the book and characters essentially follow their book counterparts as well.

Bilbo has more to do; he's the moral centerpiece of the movie, doing much the same things he did in the book. There are some very nice emotional moments between Bilbo and Thorin, Bilbo and Gandalf, Dwalin and Thorin, etc.

The action is grand, huge, and evokes some of the better moments from the LOTR battles at its best. Legolas remains King of All Kickassness, Thranduil remains Ice Queen of Middle-Earth, and Dain is surprisingly rad (and funnier than I would've expected).

The movie ends well, and ties together with LOTR in a lovely minor way. My first thought was I wanted to watch FOTR again.
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Re: Any interest in a Tele BOTFA review?

Postby erinhue » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:05 am

King of All Kickassness. Perfect. I love it. Now I can't wait to see this so we can talk.

Hail and Hiya to all the old gang, so this is where ya all been hiding. Must come around more often Brightest Blessings to ya one and all :wink:
"Where ever you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Bonzi

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Re: Any interest in a Tele BOTFA review?

Postby siddharth » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:24 am

Good to see ya back Tele! :)

Just three questions:

-I hear that Legolas is even more OTT in this one and even more of a major character here than in DOS. Does his presence ruin the battle or the film for you?

- Many reviewers on RT say that Thorin is the central character in this one, with Bilbo having little to do. Why do you think Bilbo is the core character if his screentime is shorter than Thorin (if that's true)?

- The credits. similar to RotK with nice character sketches rolling by???
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Tele's Marty BOTFA review & Q&A (Spoilers)

Postby Telemachos » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:56 am

siddharth wrote:Good to see ya back Tele! :)

Just three questions:

-I hear that Legolas is even more OTT in this one and even more of a major character here than in DOS. Does his presence ruin the battle or the film for you?

- Many reviewers on RT say that Thorin is the central character in this one, with Bilbo having little to do. Why do you think Bilbo is the core character if his screentime is shorter than Thorin (if that's true)?

- The credits. similar to RotK with nice character sketches rolling by???


Legolas has significant screen time but I wasn't bothered by it. His character is actually fleshed out a bit more than I expected. His battle antics I find pretty amusing, as I always have. PJ does seem to try to outdo himself with the Legolas Action every movie, and there's several in this one. If you got annoyed by his previous mega-stunts in the other movies, you'll be annoyed by them here. Personally, I find them absurd but fun.

I actually disagree with the reviewers saying Bilbo has little to do. His non-battle screen time seems fairly equal to Thorin's, off the top of my head, and he's the complete moral center of the movie. His actions play out very similar to the book. Even during the battle, where he doesn't have much to do, he's still given a bit of inclusive activity to keep him present (he goes to warn Thorin, Kili, and Fili, who're off fighting on a remote peak, that another wing of Gundabad Orcs are about to ambush them). Certainly he's much more of a presence here than in DOS.

The credits are very similar to ROTK's. I hadn't heard the song before, and it works well as fond nostalgia for all six movies.

Oh, and there's a moment that's totally DUNE. :rofl: I thought it was great, but it may bother some.
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Voronwe_the_Faithful » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:45 am

Glad to hear that you liked it, Tele. I've already read a pretty detailed spoiler description, so I don't really have any specific questions, but I'll ask one for a friend. What role do ravens play?
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Telemachos » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:10 am

Nothing is specifically said, but it's strongly, strongly inferred that Thorin uses them to communicate with Dain.
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Voronwe_the_Faithful » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:45 am

That's great. I thank you, and my friend (an old friend of yours, actually), thanks you as well.
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Telemachos » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:51 am

Voronwe_the_Faithful wrote:....my friend (an old friend of yours, actually)....


:shock:
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Voronwe_the_Faithful » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:10 pm

To paraphrase Shakespeare, a friend by any other name is still a friend. So to speak.
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby GreyWitch » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:47 am

Hi, Tele :)

Thank you for doing this, first of all. I'm an old new member, sort of, meaning I haven't been here in a while and we probably haven't talked before, so it's nice to meet you.

I have a very specific question about the movie, if I may. I've been reading spoilers all week, and I found this really detailed account of the final fight between Azog and Thorin, which states that they end up mortally wounding each other. Can you tell me how Thorin dies, exactly? What kind of wound does Azog inflict on him that it kills him?

Thank you.
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Telemachos » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:59 pm

Hi GreyWitch, nice to meet you. :)

DETAILED SPOILERS, obviously, since your question is fairly specific. Skip this post, anyone, if you don't want details. :)








Thorin and Azog have a lengthy, protracted fight where each -- at times -- seems to have the upper hand. It's actually a fair cool fight as well; a big chunk of it takes place on a frozen lake, so they're sliding around and trying to keep their footing in addition to fighting. Azog finally has Thorin pinned underneath him and tries to stab him; Thorin blocks with his sword (Azog's weapon is notched so Thorin's sword is able to slip in the notch to block), but Azog is too strong and is steadily pushing the tip of his weapon down. Thorin realizes he's not going to be able to keep blocking him, so he slips his sword free, and as Azog stabs him, with his now-free sword-arm, he thrusts up and stabs Azog as well. Then he's able to reverse their positions so he ends up on top of Azog as the Orc dies... but while Thorin is still capable of some movement, he's mortally wounded as well.
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby bornilon » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:08 pm

Tele-- good to see you here!

I have a question regarding the Dol Guldur sequence-- I gather from the clips I've seen that there will probably be some sort of confrontation between Sauron and Saruman. Assuming that's so, do we get any sense that Sauron has planned for this eventuality and is making a strategic withdrawal, or is it presented as a straight-up defeat? And, do we get any foreshadowing of Saruman's future arc in the LOTR trilogy?

Thanks!
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Telemachos » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:43 pm

Hi bornilon!

It's presented as a defeat. The final confrontation isn't between Sauron and Saruman, though, it's between Sauron and Galadriel. :shock:

Sauron's remaining essence (essentially, a flicker of light, like lightning behind clouds) flashes across the sky into Mordor. Elrond is all for heading there to finish the job, but Saruman says without the One Ring Sauron can't regain his strength. There's a brief mention of alerting Gondor to start keeping watch, and as you've seen in the trailer, Saruman says "leave Sauron to me". The line has a bit of irony because we've seen what happens, of course, but within the context of the scene it's played straight, and I suppose it's up to the viewer to determine whether Saruman is being entirely truthful (and then later corrupted through the Palantir), or whether perhaps he's already pondering whether he might be able to step into the power vacuum.
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby bornilon » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:18 pm

Thank you! I'm a little iffy on Galadriel's apparent promotion to Maia status in the films, but it sounds like a rousing scene anyhow!
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Telemachos » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:25 pm

bornilon wrote:Thank you! I'm a little iffy on Galadriel's apparent promotion to Maia status in the films, but it sounds like a rousing scene anyhow!


:D :D :D :D :D

Nuclear Galadriel returns!
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby GreyWitch » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:19 am

Telemachos wrote:Hi GreyWitch, nice to meet you. :)

DETAILED SPOILERS, obviously, since your question is fairly specific. Skip this post, anyone, if you don't want details. :)

Thank you very much for answering my question :) Thorin as a character is very special to me. I feel slightly more prepared now.

*spoiler below*


I assume that Thorin is stabbed through the chest, from the way you describe it? It seems that way from the positioning of his and Azog's bodies.
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Telemachos » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:27 pm

General chest area, yep. :)
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby RyersonSonOfRyer » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:43 am

Hello Tele, can you tell me if Roac the Raven is in this movie as he was in the book????
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby portia » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:08 am

Tele:

Thank you for coming back and answering questions. I am very relieved that this episode is more like the book, essentially.
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Telemachos » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:21 am

RyersonSonOfRyer wrote:Hello Tele, can you tell me if Roac the Raven is in this movie as he was in the book????


I can't tell you whether he's Roac, and he doesn't speak, but there is indeed a Raven, and he relays messages between Thorin and Dain.
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Telemachos » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:24 am

portia wrote:Tele:

Thank you for coming back and answering questions. I am very relieved that this episode is more like the book, essentially.


Hiya. :) At the end of the day, PJ kinda gets to where he's supposed to be.
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Re: Any interest in a Tele BOTFA review?

Postby Semprini » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:00 am

Telemachos wrote:Legolas remains King of All Kickassness, Thranduil remains Ice Queen of Middle-Earth.


portia wrote:I am very relieved that this episode is more like the book, essentially.


Note quite, it seems. :D Peter Jackson's most stupid invention (the turning of Legolas into a ridiculous killing machine, which makes war look "cool" whereas the whole point of the book is to state that war is hell and not the solution) is still alive according to Tele...
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Telemachos » Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:02 pm

Nevertheless, it is closer to the book. ;)
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby RyersonSonOfRyer » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:22 pm

DOES TAURIEL DIE???????
I was hoping she does. I had a theory going ever since her character was released.
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby Telemachos » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:48 pm

RyersonSonOfRyer wrote:DOES TAURIEL DIE???????
I was hoping she does. I had a theory going ever since her character was released.


Nope, she doesn't. :!:
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Re: Tele's Marty BOTFA review and Q&A (spoilers)

Postby RyersonSonOfRyer » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:31 pm

Telemachos wrote:
RyersonSonOfRyer wrote:DOES TAURIEL DIE???????
I was hoping she does. I had a theory going ever since her character was released.


Nope, she doesn't. :!:

That is a huge bummer. What happens to her??
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