confused with the chronological order

The Hobbit is in production as 3 separate films, and will be released 1 year apart, with the first due December 2012. Head in to discuss your thoughts and reactions, and post any questions you might have about these films.

confused with the chronological order

Postby danai » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:20 pm

hello everyone. i have a question about the chronilogical order of the last hobbit movie and the lord of the rings trilogy. in the hobbit the battle of five armies, at the end of the movie the father of legolas says to legolas to search for aragorn. how is that pissible since the lord of the rings are taking place after 60 years?
i hope i find an answer, its killing me since the moment i saw it
thank you
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Re: confused with the chronological order

Postby lotrjw » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:38 pm

Strangely enough if you follow the book Aragon is actually born at about the time of the Hobbit story, if you go from the film prospective you have about 17 years less from when Bilbo leaves after his party and Frodo setting out to destroy the Ring. So by the films version Aragon should be about 17 at the time of the Hobbit story, still too young really so a well spotted plot hole.
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Re: confused with the chronological order

Postby Voronwe_the_Faithful » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:48 am

You're off by about 10 years. In the book, Aragorn would have ten; in the film he would be 27, which makes Thranduil's comment make sense.
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Re: confused with the chronological order

Postby lotrjw » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:07 pm

Voronwe_the_Faithful wrote:You're off by about 10 years. In the book, Aragorn would have ten; in the film he would be 27, which makes Thranduil's comment make sense.

Ah yes I guess by 27 he could be off in the wild being a ranger, still at the age he should have been, 10, its a shame Jackson didn't think about these ages/timings more carefully as getting rid of the 17 years after Bilbo's party and Frodo leaving with the ring, has created a very different timeline to the books!
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Re: confused with the chronological order

Postby Minardil » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:17 pm

hello everyone. i have a question about the chronilogical order of the last hobbit movie and the lord of the rings trilogy. in the hobbit the battle of five armies, at the end of the movie the father of legolas says to legolas to search for aragorn. how is that pissible since the lord of the rings are taking place after 60 years?
i hope i find an answer, its killing me since the moment i saw it
thank you


I take it, from the question, that you miss the bit in LoTR:TT where Aragorn tells Eowyn that he is 87 years old?

So, within the chronology established by the MOVIES, wherein the story of the Hobbit takes place 60 years before Bilbo's 111th Birthday Party, and the story of the Quest for the Ring follows more or less immediately after that party, then we can assume that at the time of Peter Jackson's Battle of Five Armies, Aragorn will be about 26 or 27 years old, working backwards from his age as established in TT. I don't know if the years for these events are specified with any detail in the movies.




In the BOOKS, on the other hand, Aragorn is born in the year 2931 of the Third Age. The Battle of the Five Armies took place in TA 2941, at which point Aragorn was ten years old, and living as a foster child in Rivendell under the name Estel (meaning "Hope"). Bilbo's 111th Birthday Party takes place about 60 years after Bilbo gets home from the Lonely Mountain, and the events of the Lord of the Ring take place about 17 years after THAT, in the years TA 3018-3019, at which point Aragorn is indeed 87 years old, as he claims in PJ's movie. So it's really that missing 17 year period that PJ cuts out between the Long Expected Party and Frodo's departure from the Shire which explains the differential in Aragorn's age as it is in PJ's films at the time of the Battle of the Five Armies.

IF, on the other hand, your confusion is based on not understanding how Aragorn could still be around 60 years after the Battle of the Five Armies, and you're thinking he should be an old man, remember that Aragorn is a Dunedain, a descendant of the men of Numenor who were granted longer than normal life spans as a reward for their sacrifices in the wars against Morgoth during the First Age. All Numenoreans had unusually long life spans, centuries at least, but Numenoreans of the Royal Line, lived even longer. Elros, the first king of Numenor (and Elrond's brother) lived to be 500, and even then surrendered his life voluntarily while still in the full vigor of health. His descendants (of whom Aragorn is one) also had unusually long lives even by Numenorean standards, though generations of breeding with families of lesser lineage had shortened that lifespan somewhat. At the end of the events of the Lord of the Rings, Aragorn has just been crowned King of the Re-United Kingdom of Arnor and Gondor, and he rules for another 120 years.
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Re: confused with the chronological order

Postby danai » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:22 pm

thank you, now i understand!
to be honest i watched the extended versions of all the LOTR movies but i never saw the scene in which aragorn tells his age. i just bought the hobbit book so i hope i will have a better understanding in general!
thank you :)
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Re: confused with the chronological order

Postby lotrjw » Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:19 pm

danai wrote:thank you, now i understand!
to be honest i watched the extended versions of all the LOTR movies but i never saw the scene in which aragorn tells his age. i just bought the hobbit book so i hope i will have a better understanding in general!
thank you :)


You won't find Aragon in the Hobbit book just as you won't find Legolas, Galadriel, Sarumam or Radagast even though 2 of those characters would have been involved in event's happening at the time of the Hobbit story that do relate. The others including Aragon were around somewhere but apart from Legolas who Tolkien didn't create till after he wrote the Hobbit but obviously is part of the Wood Elves, they weren't actually part of events involving either the Dol Goldur story or the Hobbit story.
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Re: confused with the chronological order

Postby solicitr » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:28 pm

Moreover, in the book-reality nobody except Elrond and a handful of his closest associates knew who "Estel" really was; even the boy himself didn't know until Elrond told him on his 21st birthday. As an adult Aragorn was at great pains to conceal his identity except among the Dunedain or in Rivendell or Lorien. This information was classified Top Secret, Need to Know Only.
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Re: confused with the chronological order

Postby Avoreth » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:52 pm

lotrjw wrote: you won't find Legolas, Galadriel, Sarumam or Radagast


You do find Radagast mentioned by Gandalf, though. As his cousin. :D
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Re: confused with the chronological order

Postby IrisBrandybuck » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:17 am

danai, keep in mind that The Hobbit was originally written as a fairy-tale style book and is aimed more at a younger audience. Jackson took a lot of information out of the appendices and other writings, and his own imagination, to flesh out The Hobbit for the movies and make it do-able for three movies. Did the same for Lord of the Rings.

It's easier if you recall the movies are "based on" the books and not completely accurate portrayals of the movies.

Also, in TTT, Aragorn doesn't say, "by the way, Eowyn, I'm 87!" He tells her of some of the places he's been and people he knew, and she puts it together. :)
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Re: confused with the chronological order

Postby Simon » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:52 am

danai wrote:hello everyone. i have a question about the chronilogical order of the last hobbit movie and the lord of the rings trilogy. in the hobbit the battle of five armies, at the end of the movie the father of legolas says to legolas to search for aragorn. how is that pissible since the lord of the rings are taking place after 60 years?
i hope i find an answer, its killing me since the moment i saw it
thank you


The timeline is totally messed up and Aragorn would have been about ten years old at the time. And of course Legolas never set out to find Aragorn at all. That was Elrond`s sons and decades later. Legolas didn`t leave Greenwood at all until he left to attend Elrond`s Council. I wish those were the only problems but they are not. For instance, 300 years passed between the return of Sauron and Smaug`s conquest of Erebor, and another 80 before Gandalf found out about Sauron. Some of it I don`t mind so much because it is very hard to give a sense of a lot of time passing in a movie. The whole story does span about 80 years after all. But the Aragorn stuff is just silly to anyone who knows the books and should have been dropped. Obviously though it was included as a way of linking the Hobbit trilogy to the LotR trilogy.

https://henryherz.wordpress.com/2013/01 ... -timeline/
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Re: confused with the chronological order

Postby ngaur » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:52 pm

What I find incredulous about the comment is that if, as the movie claims there was such a young ranger, promising enough to merit even Thranduils attention, then why wasn't he at the battle? What was he doing at the time? Strolling around the pastures sniffing daisies? And if so how did that make him great or promising? An what would Legolas say to him if he found him? 'I had to climb a free-falling bridge mid-battle to kill the most unecessarily ovesized Ork imaginable several times before he would die, and lost the only love of my life in the sorry process. Where were you you basterd?'

Of cousre the books give the answer, but the movie doesn't.
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Re: confused with the chronological order

Postby solicitr » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:57 pm

Even the TT movie is mistaken. Actually Aragorn by the time of that conversation had been 88 for several days; his birthday (March 1) was the day they met the White Rider in Fangorn.
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Re: confused with the chronological order

Postby IrisBrandybuck » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:37 am

Eh, he was so busy, he probably lost track. ;)
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Re: confused with the chronological order

Postby oldtoby » Wed May 13, 2015 5:44 pm

ngaur wrote:What I find incredulous about the comment is that if, as the movie claims there was such a young ranger, promising enough to merit even Thranduils attention, then why wasn't he at the battle? What was he doing at the time? Strolling around the pastures sniffing daisies? And if so how did that make him great or promising? An what would Legolas say to him if he found him? 'I had to climb a free-falling bridge mid-battle to kill the most unecessarily ovesized Ork imaginable several times before he would die, and lost the only love of my life in the sorry process. Where were you you basterd?'

Of cousre the books give the answer, but the movie doesn't.


He couldn't go, "Tra-la-laling in the Valley: Tree Singing 101" started that week at ISU (Imladris State University), and Elrond had already paid the non refundable course fee and bought the textbooks.
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