The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:01 pm

Noon! That d be clumsy. Let Gladhaniel work some vocabulary magic.

I was looking for alternatives by considering definitions and synonyms. That's I how I came up with the suggestion of self + burden/affliction.

If you don't care for it, maybe she can do better. It might require a phrase that expresses the thought.

But using an English word in the midst of Q or S, when by JRRT's concept the language doesn't exist yet in the Third Age, is a non-starter. It's not like incorporating a contemporaneous word or phrase like savoir faire into an English text.
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:44 pm

Perhaps cólo +

indo
heart, mood
indo (1) noun "heart, mood" (ID), "state" (perhaps especially state of mind, given the other glosses) (VT39:23), "mind, region/range of thought, mood" (PE17:155, 179), "inner thought, in fea as exhibited in character or [?personality]" (PE17:189). In another post-LotR source, indo is translated "resolve" or "will", the state of mind leading directly to action (VT41:13). Indo is thus "the mind in its purposing faculty, the will" (VT41:17). Indo-ninya,a word occurring in Fíriels Song, translated "my heart" (see ninya). In the compound indemma "mind-picture", the first element would seem to be indo.

Or

heart
órë (1) noun "heart" (inner mind), also name of tengwa #21 (Appendix E), "premonition" (VT41:13), "nearest equivalent of 'heart' in our application to feelings, or emotions (courage, fear, hope, pity, etc.)" (VT41:13). The órë apparently defines a person's personality, cf. the description of Galadriel in PM:337, that "there dwelt in her the noble and generous spirit (órë) of the Vanyar". Órenya "my heart" (VT41:11).
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby fang13 » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:42 am

Almatolmen wrote:Perhaps cólo +

indo
heart, mood
indo (1) noun "heart, mood" (ID), "state" (perhaps especially state of mind, given the other glosses) (VT39:23), "mind, region/range of thought, mood" (PE17:155, 179), "inner thought, in fea as exhibited in character or [?personality]" (PE17:189). In another post-LotR source, indo is translated "resolve" or "will", the state of mind leading directly to action (VT41:13). Indo is thus "the mind in its purposing faculty, the will" (VT41:17). Indo-ninya,a word occurring in Fíriels Song, translated "my heart" (see ninya). In the compound indemma "mind-picture", the first element would seem to be indo.

Or

heart
órë (1) noun "heart" (inner mind), also name of tengwa #21 (Appendix E), "premonition" (VT41:13), "nearest equivalent of 'heart' in our application to feelings, or emotions (courage, fear, hope, pity, etc.)" (VT41:13). The órë apparently defines a person's personality, cf. the description of Galadriel in PM:337, that "there dwelt in her the noble and generous spirit (órë) of the Vanyar". Órenya "my heart" (VT41:11).


I'm sorry, I somehow completely overlooked your original statement about using immo and cólo. I swear I wasn't ignoring on purpose. :shock: I do like cólo in congruence with some form of self, especially órë. As with the Sindarin thread, you guys have inspired me to rethink the wording to make this more elegant to begin with. I'm going to think on this and try again when I change it to something I like a bit better. :)

More suggestions are still welcome! Thanks for your help!
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Gladhaniel » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:25 pm

Hi fang13! :)

I see you and Alma have a good conversation going on about your sentence!

If you feel like the whole thing needs to be thought over, don't hesitate to come back with the final wording(s) for your phrase.

I looked at Xandarien's Sindarin translation of your sentence and think the Quenya translation I'd be able to provide might go along those lines — for instance, "I am a great gift to the world beyond all gifts" would work well in Quenya. :) Also, I like both Xandarien's loose translation of "self-pity" as "caus[ing] pain to oneself," and Alma's idea of e.g. órecólo "heart-burden."

Anyway, just let me know what exactly you'd like me to translate when you're ready, and it'll be a pleasure to give it a shot. :D
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby sacredrage » Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:56 am

Reposting as advised

__

First of all let me express my extreme gratitude for the help of this forum. I am having a custom nenya ring (Galadriel's ring; mostly) made for my significant other (I did not like the representation made in the Peter Jackson films). It's a very high end ring and I would like to have an elvish inscription on the inside. I've found some online translation services, but I am uncertain if I trust them. Sizing is an issue (meaning there is limited space on the ring for engraving), so I'd like to propose a few different phrases and then choose the best option that physically fits. Since I don't know how the words will come out in the script I've listed several options.

My understanding is that Quenya would probably be appropriate for a formal/serious engraving for a ring of power, but I am open to input on that as well re: sindarin. The ring is many thousands of dollars and is a beautiful custom design (in retrospect, I wish I had come here for ideas first, though it did turn out wonderfully) that I'd be happy to share once finalized. Here are the phrases:

Love in action and in truth
Love. Action. Truth (3 separate words that stand on their own)
Sarah
Water Perseverance Concealment
Adamant
Ring of Water
Ring of Adamant
The White Ring
White Ring
Nenya
Frankly, I'm to suggestions if anyone knows the lore ... but those all seem like the right sort of thing to me, though I don't think a ring of power would have a specific name on it.

I suppose "Nenya" would be the easiest and simplest thing so if all else fails can someone give me the correct quenya script for Nenya? It's just a contraction of "water" (nen) and the adjectival "ya" per the internet. But Love. Action. Truth. would have personal meaning.

To be clear, I'd like to have it in the elvish script (tengwar, I believe?) and the ring designer threw me a curve ball and says he needs this TODAY in order to make our deadline. Apparently laser engraving won't work with the elvish font and he prefers to build the script into the CAD design. That means I don't have a lot of time and I need to get this right. It feels a bit distasteful, but as I have to get this done quickly AND CORRECTLY I am happy to compensate someone via paypal etc for their time + the rush as is appropriate. I've seen sites that do this, but don't know that I trust them or that they would be responsive enough.

I know her well, and the ring is going to have tremendous meaning to her as Galadriel is a person of great inspiration to her and she has recently made some accomplishments in her personal life. So, I hope it helps to know that you'll be part of something that she will treasure always.
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Gladhaniel » Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:00 am

sacredrage:

Hello! :)

I see Xandarien has already given you advice and briefed you on the way we work here on the forums. Unfortunately, I must agree with her: to get the Quenya words/phrases transcribed, you have the option of either asking Isildilmë in the Tengwar Thread (which is going to take time but will end up being a quality transcription), or using an online transcriber (which will go quicker but might give you inaccurate results). I'm sorry that you have to deal with this on short notice, but there is always a certain delay to expect, especially for Tengwar transcriptions. I wish you good luck in any case! :)

LOVE IN ACTION AND IN TRUTH

If you want to say that love is found in action and truth:

Melmë carës ar sanyas

If you rather mean that love is achieved through action and truth:

Melmë carenen ar sanyanen

LOVE. ACTION. TRUTH.

Melmë. Carë. Sanya.

SARAH

According to the search I made online, it seems the general consensus for this name is that it means lady, princess, noblewoman in Hebrew.

Heri
Lady

Aranel
Princess

Aranis
Noble woman
(As you probably know, this is Galadriel's father-name, so very appropriate in this case.)

WATER. PERSEVERANCE. CONCEALMENT.

Nén
Water

I unfortunately wasn't able to find a direct translation of perseverance and concealment, but here are some options which I think might work well:

Voronwë
Steadfastness, loyalty, faithfulness

Voronwië
Endurance, lasting quality

Nurtalë
Hiding

(RING OF) ADAMANT

From the phrase "the Ring of Adamant" designing Quenya, it seems clear to me that adamant is supposed to be an adjective as opposed to a noun in this context. Basing myself on the word's definition ("a legendary rock or mineral to which many, often contradictory, properties were attributed, formerly associated with diamond or lodestone"), I sadly wasn't able to find an equivalent of either adamant or diamond in Quenya which renders the legendary qualities the word should be imbued with. Anything like "unbreakable stone" would seem like a poor and inappropriate rendering of the term.

RING OF WATER

Nencorma
Water-ring, Ring of Water

Also, Nenya is already Quenya and, as you found out, it literally means (Ring) of Water (nen- water + adjectival suffix -ya). So you could definitely use that!

(THE) WHITE RING

Ninquecorma
White-ring, White Ring

I ninquë corma
The white ring
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby sacredrage » Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:10 am

Gladhaniel wrote:sacredrage:

Hello! :)

I see Xandarien has already given you advice and briefed you on the way we work here on the forums. Unfortunately, I must agree with her: to get the Quenya words/phrases transcribed, you have the option of either asking Isildilmë in the Tengwar Thread (which is going to take time but will end up being a quality transcription), or using an online transcriber (which will go quicker but might give you inaccurate results). I'm sorry that you have to deal with this on short notice, but there is always a certain delay to expect, especially for Tengwar transcriptions. I wish you good luck in any case! :)

LOVE IN ACTION AND IN TRUTH

If you want to say that love is found in action and truth:

Melmë carës ar sanyas

If you rather mean that love is achieved through action and truth:

Melmë carenen ar sanyanen

LOVE. ACTION. TRUTH.

Melmë. Carë. Sanya.

SARAH

According to the search I made online, it seems the general consensus for this name is that it means lady, princess, noblewoman in Hebrew.

Heri
Lady

Aranel
Princess

Aranis
Noble woman
(As you probably know, this is Galadriel's father-name, so very appropriate in this case.)

WATER. PERSEVERANCE. CONCEALMENT.

Nén
Water

I unfortunately wasn't able to find a direct translation of perseverance and concealment, but here are some options which I think might work well:

Voronwë
Steadfastness, loyalty, faithfulness

Voronwië
Endurance, lasting quality

Nurtalë
Hiding

(RING OF) ADAMANT

From the phrase "the Ring of Adamant" designing Quenya, it seems clear to me that adamant is supposed to be an adjective as opposed to a noun in this context. Basing myself on the word's definition ("a legendary rock or mineral to which many, often contradictory, properties were attributed, formerly associated with diamond or lodestone"), I sadly wasn't able to find an equivalent of either adamant or diamond in Quenya which renders the legendary qualities the word should be imbued with. Anything like "unbreakable stone" would seem like a poor and inappropriate rendering of the term.

RING OF WATER

Nencorma
Water-ring, Ring of Water

Also, Nenya is already Quenya and, as you found out, it literally means (Ring) of Water (nen- water + adjectival suffix -ya). So you could definitely use that!

(THE) WHITE RING

Ninquecorma
White-ring, White Ring

I ninquë corma
The white ring


Okay, so the idea is that now I have it translated into Quenya, but need additional help getting it into the Tengwar Script. You are a rockstar and I cannot thank you enough for your help. Hopefully, I get lucky, and can skip to the front of the line due to time constraints. You have my email address if you want to send me a reasonable invoice via paypal for the insanely fast response. I am very grateful for your thoughtful generosity.
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby sacredrage » Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:14 am

Seems like there is no reasonable chance of getting a response from Isildilmë (who aptly notes possession of a life out of doing free translation work for beggars like me online) within my time frame based on the frequency of responses in the Tengwar thread. I am thinking that perhaps simply transcribing "nenya" would be the easiest thing to do. I think, as it's a name, phonetics may apply but man am I leery of spending that much money and then having a wonky translation. It will bother me forever and ruin an otherwise stellar effort. I'll post, reach out, and hope for the best.
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby sacredrage » Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:24 am

Given the timeframe I think I'll just have "Nenya" as it seems like my best bet. Most of the tengwar translations agree, so if forced I can roll the dice.

Side Note: It's the ugliest aesthetic of any tengwar word I've seen. LOL. No long script like letters. Oh well.
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Gladhaniel » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:21 am

You're very welcome! :) Although I thank you kindly for your offer to give me some money for this translation, that won't be required as I've been working on here for free for several years now. But thanks again for your suggestion, it's very much appreciated. :)

I'm sorry that you won't have time time to wait for Isildilmë's transcription and will need to settle for an online transcriber. Personally, I always use this one, and the result usually agrees with Isildilmë's transcription, except for the fact that the Tehtar (the swirls and accents on top of the main characters) are not always centered. Of course there's a risk of error, and that kind of transcription obviously can't compare with that of an actual person transcribing, but hopefully whatever you found will be fairly accurate. :) As Xandarien mentioned, just make sure to pick the Quenya mode when using a transcriber!
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby fang13 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:16 pm

So I decided to simplify this quite a lot, and go with "I'd rather be ashes than dust" from an amazing Jack London quote. Thanks again for everyone's help! I really liked all your suggestions for my first attempt. This other quote just really hit home with me.
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Gladhaniel » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:34 am

fang13:

Hi again! :)

Merinyë ná yúla epë asto.
I want to be ember more than dust.

Mer-: wish, desire, want, hope
Yúla: ember, smouldering wood (this was the closest to ashes I could come to)


To express "rather ... than," I settled for the word epë before which can be used to compare adjectives or adverbs by indicating that one has the preponderance over the other (in our sentence: "ember more than dust," lit. "ember before dust").
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby fang13 » Sun Jul 17, 2016 10:45 am

Thank you Gladhaniel! I'm liking this much better. Just wanted to run this by you, but I found this webpage that has the Riddle of Strider translated into Quenya: https://quenya101.com/2013/03/17/not-al ... in-quenya/

They are using Yúlallo for ashes. Would that be correct and usable here?

Thanks again for your help!
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Gladhaniel » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:23 am

fang13 wrote:Thank you Gladhaniel! I'm liking this much better. Just wanted to run this by you, but I found this webpage that has the Riddle of Strider translated into Quenya: https://quenya101.com/2013/03/17/not-al ... in-quenya/

They are using Yúlallo for ashes. Would that be correct and usable here?

Thanks again for your help!

You're very welcome! :)

For your info and future reference, I consider Quenya101 to be one of the few reliable sources for Quenya translations out there and I recommend using it. :)

Yúlallo is entirely correct in the context of the Riddle of Strider, but it's not what we need for our phrase because it means "from ember/ashes" — yúla ember (the exact same word I used in my translation) + ablative suffix -(e)llo from. But thank you for your question; I really appreciate seeing someone interested in getting their translation entirely right! :D
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby fang13 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:38 am

Gladhaniel wrote:Yúlallo is entirely correct in the context of the Riddle of Strider, but it's not what we need for our phrase because it means "from ember/ashes" — yúla ember (the exact same word I used in my translation) + ablative suffix -(e)llo from. But thank you for your question; I really appreciate seeing someone interested in getting their translation entirely right! :D


Absolutely! I highly respect Tolkien and his work, and I think it's worth it to go through the extra trouble to get this translated into Elvish first, and then into Tengwar. Even though there will only be a small percentage of people who would ever know the difference (but that's kind of the point anyway. ;)) Plus, I'd like to be able to read/speak these languages one day, and I'd be miserable knowing my tattoo had an inaccuracy. XP

But you guys have made this extremely easy and pleasant! Thanks for making all this possible!
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Luca1940 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:37 am

Hey, could you guys and girls please help me translate two quotes to Quenya? Would be awesome!

Quote one ( by Alan Watts): You are it
Quote two (bruce lee): Be water my friend ( and i would like to see what only be water would look like :) )
thank you so much :)
I don´t really trust the language onlineconverters....
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Gladhaniel » Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:48 am

Luca1940:

Hello! :)

Luca1940 wrote:I don´t really trust the language onlineconverters....

That's very wise of you! ;) Here's my Quenya translation of your two lines:

YOU ARE IT

Nalyes / Natyes

These are two slightly different ways of saying the same thing. The first option is if you're talking to a more formal you, someone you don't know that well or who's higher up than you. In the second option, the you addressed is intimate and familiar.

BE WATER, MY FRIEND

Na nén, meldonya

This is for either a gender-neutral or specifically masculine friend. If the friend in question is a woman/girl, go with meldenya instead.

I see you also posted in the Tengwar Transcription Thread. Just to make sure you're aware, Tengwar is a writing system (not a language) which can be used to write words in many languages, so you could ask Isildilmë to transcribe your two lines in English, Sindarin and Quenya, for example. :) Please also make sure to include in your request the font(s) you want (you'll find them at the beginning of the Tengwar thread), as well as the language of the lines you'd like to have translated.
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Luca1940 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:01 am

Oh, I dd not know that it is a writing system, so is it the system with the letters like on the one ring?
Thank you so much! you are great :)
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Gladhaniel » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:34 am

Luca1940 wrote:Oh, I dd not know that it is a writing system, so is it the system with the letters like on the one ring?
Thank you so much! you are great :)

My pleasure!

Yes, exactly, it's that writing system. The font used on the One Ring in the movies is called "Tengwar Annatar italics" — if that's what you're looking for, you can tell Isildilmë that you'd like to have that font for your transcription. :)
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Luca1940 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:04 am

So there is more than one version of Tengwar ?? iam a little confused :D
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Luca1940 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:51 am

Ah,sorry, I just saw that you allready explained it in your message, must have missed that!
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Gladhaniel » Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:55 am

Please note: I unfortunately won't be able to check this thread as regularly as usual during the next few weeks (i.e. the month of August) because I'll be moving to Denmark temporarily. However, do feel free to send in requests — I'll get to them as quickly as possible.:)
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby psche400 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:08 am

I am considering a tattoo, and wanted to go though the steps to make it perfect. I would like the phrase: "I will not say: do not weep; for not all tears are an evil" translated into Quenya. If I can get this, then hopefully can move onto the next step of translating the Quenyan into Tengwar characters for the final version. Thanks for your help!
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:20 am

Oddly, I can't find a Quenya verb for weep, though there are two in Gnomish.

Quenya zR5Ì#
nyenyë
weeping
nyenyë noun "weeping" (LT1:262)

[Quettaparma Quenyallo] Group: Quettaparma Quenyallo. Published 2012-11-12 22:32:40 by Ardalambion Import
Niélë


[Quettaparma Quenyallo] Group: Quettaparma Quenyallo. Published 2012-11-12 22:31:53 by Ardalambion Import
nië
n. tear
Group: Eldamo. Published 2016-08-06 20:46:23 by Eldamo Import
nië
tear
nië noun "tear" (NEI, VT45:38, LT1:262, LT2:346); apparently níe in MC:221

[Quettaparma Quenyallo] Group: Quettaparma Quenyallo. Published 2012-11-12 22:31:52 by Ardalambion Import
nírë
tear
nírë noun "tear" (NEI)

[Quettaparma Quenyallo] Group: Quettaparma Quenyallo. Published 2012-11-12 22:31:53 by Ardalambion Import

Gnomish
ninna-
v. weep
[GL/60.8101, GL/60.8102, LT2A/Níniel.008] Group: Eldamo. Published 2016-08-06 21:03:15 by Eldamo Import
sibra-
v. weep, whimper
[GL/67.4801, GL/67.4802, GL/67.4805] Group: Eldamo. Published 2016-08-06 21:05:13 by Eldamo Import
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Gladhaniel » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:34 pm

psche400:

Here is my take on the beautiful line you're requesting. :)

As you'll see, I also struggled to try to find the best possible equivalent of weep, and ultimately I decided to opt for naina- lament. I hope it's to your liking. Both nier and níri mean tears; you can choose whichever option you prefer.

Úvanyë quetë: áva naina; an lá ilyë nier/níri ulco.
I will not say: do not lament; for not all tears [are] an evil.
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:59 pm

I think that naina is a reasonable choice. I note it's resemblance to the Gnomish verb.
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby DarkLittleHobbit » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:37 am

Hello everybody. I am still new so excuse me if I do something wrong. English is not my mother language so it´s possible I make some mistakes here too. The thing is that I would like to know how "Proud Little Hobbit" would be written in Quenya, so I came here searching of somebody could help me. Thanks you in advance.
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:05 am

I'll assume that you want a translation and not a transcription, though there is a Thread for that.

Sadly, Quenya has no word to translate proud and the Sindarin word has only negative connotations like obstinate and stiff-necked. I'll look for alternatives.
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:36 am

Perhaps great-hearted: meletya-great, mighty, "majestic" + honda-hearted

The problem is that the positive sense is something like well-regard for oneself and none of the English synonyms or possible Quenya translations really capture that aspect.

Poldórëa
valiant
Poldórëa adj. "Valiant"; as title of Tulkas replaced by Astaldo (POL/POLOD, MR:146, 149. In GL:64, poldórëa is glossed "mighty, strong man."
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:36 am

Perhaps great-hearted: meletya-great, mighty, "majestic" + honda-hearted

The problem is that the positive sense is something like well-regard for oneself and none of the English synonyms or possible Quenya translations really capture that aspect.

Poldórëa
valiant
Poldórëa adj. "Valiant"; as title of Tulkas replaced by Astaldo (POL/POLOD, MR:146, 149. In GL:64, poldórëa is glossed "mighty, strong man."
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