The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:47 am

With some indication of reflwivity, this seems to be close to the intent of proud:

Qenya
sinte
n. esteem; estimate, computation
[QL/085.2001, QL/085.2004, QL/085.2006]
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Gladhaniel » Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:53 am

DarkLittleHobbit:

Hi there. :)

No problem, I'd love to help you out!

Almatolmen wrote:With some indication of reflwivity, this seems to be close to the intent of proud:

Qenya
sinte
n. esteem; estimate, computation
[QL/085.2001, QL/085.2004, QL/085.2006]

Bringing in the notion of esteem is a great idea! :) However, the definition of sinte as meaning esteem, estimate, computation suggests it refers to a mathematical/technical kind of estimate as opposed to self-esteem, so I'm afraid we can't really use it in this context. As for rendering proud as "great-hearted," it's also quite an interesting idea. I suggest:

melehta/meletya mighty + honda hearted = melehtahonda/meletyahonda "mighty-hearted"

Another option with a very different effect would involve the synonym happy (which brings in another aspect of pride but unfortunately doesn't really encompass the meaning of the word as a whole).

Here are therefore the two options I recommend for you, DarkLittleHobbit. You will see many words between [...] and {...}: these are several alternatives you have for mighty-hearted, little and happy. They all mean the same thing, so you can choose whichever you prefer. Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions or need clarifications!

(1) [Melehtahonda/meletyahonda] {pia/pitya/picina/pincë/nitya/níca/titta} Perian
[Mighty-hearted] {little} hobbit

(2) [Valima/valin] {pia/pitya/picina/pincë/nitya/níca/titta} Perian
[Happy] {little} hobbit

Thanks for your ideas, Alma! :)
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:27 pm

The English word of esteem is obviously connected to estimate: esteem is one of estimation of the value of others or one's self-worth, so in and of themselves I don't think that the "mathematical" associations in and of themselves would eliminate sinte from consideration.
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Nephya » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:36 am

Bonjour Gladhaniel,
Pourrais-tu me traduire "Papa" et "Père" en Quenya s'il te plait ?

Merci ! :)
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Gladhaniel » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:45 am

Bonjour Nephya,

Je suis tellement désolée pour le délai, pour une raison que j'ignore je n'avais pas vu votre message avant maintenant! :(

atar father / père
atto father, daddy / père, papa
atya daddy, (my) father / papa, (mon) père
ataryo daddy / papa
taryo daddy / papa
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby MithLuin » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:20 pm

Hello! I am working on a Quenya translation of Zephaniah 1:15-16. The idea is to set it to the tune of the chant for the 'Dies Irae,' so I am trying to maintain 8-syllable phrases. An exact literal translation isn't necessary, so long as it conveys the basic meaning.

Dies iræ, dies illa, dies tribulationis et angustiæ, dies calamitatis et miseriæ, dies tenebrarum et caliginis, dies nebulæ et turbinis, dies tubæ et clangoris super civitates munitas et super angulos excelsos. (Which is the Latin Vulgate version of Zephaniah 1:15-16)
"That day is a day of wrath, a day of tribulation and distress, a day of calamity and misery, a day of darkness and obscurity, a day of clouds and whirlwinds, a day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high bulwarks." (Being the Douay–Rheims Bible translation of the same passage)

And the chant (which is not that full passage): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsn9LWh230k

Alternately, I could use the music from this piece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFDABe4cl3E
Then, the syllable count could be: 8-12-8-12-13-12-9-12- or something. In other words, longer phrases are possible.


Here is my attempt at a translation - I would appreciate any feedback you can offer. Thank you!


Aurë rúsëo, aurenna,
(The) Day of Wrath, upon the day, ​

Aurë paimëo [ar] caurëo,
a day of punishment [and] of fear,​

Norto ar angayassëo,
(a day) of horror and misery,​

Aurë lomëo ar mordo,
a day of darkness and (of) dimness,​

Lumboro [ar] vaiwo hwinyala,
(a day) of dark clouds [and] of swirling wind,​

Aurë rombaron [ar] rómaron
A day of horns [and] of trumpet blasts

Ostorinna [ar] pélorinna.
against the walled cities, [and] against the fenced heights.
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Gladhaniel » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:53 am

MithLuin:

Hello! :)

Thank you for this very interesting request. It was a pleasure to look over your translation. In my opinion, you were quite successful in playing with your translation to make it fit the 8 syllables of the chant!

I don't have much to add, except for the fact that I'd use the possessive case (sing. -va/-wa and pl. -iva) instead of the genitive case throughout. The possessive is used to describe attributes, materials, abstracts, actions and so on, which I find fits the instances in your excerpt rather closely; and we have the attested example Mar Vanwa Tyaliéva "Cottage of Lost Play" which shows the possessive being used in a similar way. The genitive would imply a relationship of origin or of being part of something, which I don't believe works here. Making the change would give us the following lines:

(1) Aurë rúseva, aurenna,
(2) Aurë paimeva [ar] caureva,
(3) Nortova [ar] angayasseva,
(4) Aurë lomeva [ar] mordova,
(5) Lumboiva [ar] hwinyala vaiwava,
(6) Aurë rombaiva [ar] rómaiva,
(7) Ostonnar [ar] pélorinnar.


In (3) and (4), ar needs to be removed in order for the modified line to fit the 8 syllable pattern.

In (5), I changed the word order so as to reflect that in Mar Vanwa Tyaliéva ("Cottage Lost Play-of"). However, with the changes made, we end up with one extra syllable. To solve this problem, perhaps you could remove the adjective hwinyala and add aurë at the beginning of the line, thus: Aurë lumboiva [ar] vaiwava. You could also substitute vaiwava by súriva — in my opinion, that would sound better.

As for (7), I fixed the plural allative endings which are supposed to be -(i)nnar added to the noun in the singular (in this case, osto and presumably pelór). However, I'm actually not quite sure whether the allative is the appropriate case in this context. It expresses movement towards something, but is that what the text is supposed to mean?
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby MithLuin » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:15 pm

Thank you very much for such a prompt reply!

I admit to being a complete novice with Quenya, so determining which case to use wasn't obvious to me. I agree with you that possessive works better than genitive for what is being conveyed - I mistakenly thought possessive was only for 'ownership'. As for the final line, it's meant to convey an attack - the sound of the horns is the sound of the attack being launched against the walls. So...'against' rather than 'in the direction of' but still movement towards, so....maybe? I don't suppose there is a clear way to convey 'in opposition to'?

Súriva is better. There is also a word hwindë (whirlpool), so if that can be adapted to whirlwind in some way...?
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Gladhaniel » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:16 am

MithLuin wrote:Thank you very much for such a prompt reply!

I admit to being a complete novice with Quenya, so determining which case to use wasn't obvious to me. I agree with you that possessive works better than genitive for what is being conveyed - I mistakenly thought possessive was only for 'ownership'. As for the final line, it's meant to convey an attack - the sound of the horns is the sound of the attack being launched against the walls. So...'against' rather than 'in the direction of' but still movement towards, so....maybe? I don't suppose there is a clear way to convey 'in opposition to'?

Súriva is better. There is also a word hwindë (whirlpool), so if that can be adapted to whirlwind in some way...?

The allative case can also mean against, so I think it fits perfectly in this context based on the description you gave. :)

I've never really felt comfortable making up words in Quenya, so I'm sorry, I don't know how I could try to make hwindë into whirlwind. I'm not aware of there being words or roots I could isolate from the word to create something new. :(
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby ThatAroAceGal » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:59 pm

Hello!

My friend and I want matching tattoos in Elvish saying "Eternal sisters". I understand this translation may be tricky, as I've tried doing it myself and wanted to run by someone what I had to see if it was correct. So far I've got six possibilities:

Onórë aira
Onórë írë
Onónë aira
Onónë írë
Nésa aira
Nésa írë

Myself I'm partial to nésa írë, but if any of these are more correct (or if they're all completely off base and there's a better one out there), please let me know! Thank you :D
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Re: The Official Quenya Translation Thread II

Postby Gladhaniel » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:00 pm

ThatAroAceGal:

Hi and thank you for your message! :)

➤ The most usual word order in Quenya is adjective + noun. Noun + adjective (which you used in your translation) is mostly used in names or in poetry, or to emphasize the adjective. So you can keep the word order as it is, but only if eternal is meant to be underlined.
Nésa is from a later source and might replace onórë and onónë. For that reason, I'd privilege using nésa over the other two.
➤ In the plural, onórëonóri, onónëonóni and nésanésar.
Aira seems to be outdated, and írë is actually a noun and not an adjective. I'd use oira (pl. oirë) or oialëa (pl. oialië) instead.

So here's what I would suggest:

Nésar oirë
Nésar oialië


And, if you don't mind using onórë and onónë:

Onóri oirë
Onóri oialië
Onóni oirë
Onóni oialië


Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions. :)
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