The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Zinneth » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:01 am

Xandarien wrote:
Yes indeed!
Aint mîl = Gifts of affection (not sure where the 'n' came from in the middle of yours? :) )


Ack! That was me trying to interpret a preposition, which you had listed as N(a) on your site. It said the (a) is only added if the following word begins with a vowel, so I dropped that and kept the 'n.' One of these years I'll learn how to do things correctly. :oops:

Thank you for your help, Xandarien!
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby genericallygypsi » Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:18 pm

The translation threads seem a little quieter these days than when I was here back in 2013 for a couple months... before I fell off the face of the Middle Earth. :wink:

Anywho. Hi all!
I found my way back here after all this time, because my boyfriend and I just got a puppy, and plan on getting another in August, and he reeeeally wants to train our dogs in Elvish (despite neither of us really knowing either form. At all. Lol). If this is going to be an extremely arduous and ridiculous task, please tell me now, so I can shut him down. Lol

Otherwise, if I could get some translations for some basic 'command' words like sit, stay, etc (whatever you can think of), I'd REALLY appreciate it.
And then I'll have to go listen to some of the spoken guides and try to figure out how to say them. LOL

In any case, thanks in advance! And Happy New Year! 2016!
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:11 am

Hello again! Basic commands, alright let's see what I can do...

Havo! = Sit!
Daro! = Stay!
Losto! = Sleep!
Caedo! = Lay down!
Tolo! = Come!
Mado! = Eat!
ú! = No!
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby genericallygypsi » Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:16 pm

Xandarien wrote:Hello again! Basic commands, alright let's see what I can do...

Havo! = Sit!
Daro! = Stay!
Losto! = Sleep!
Caedo! = Lay down!
Tolo! = Come!
Mado! = Eat!
ú! = No!


Thank you for the welcome (back)! Lol
These are perfect Xandarien, thank you!!! :D
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Zinneth » Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:35 pm

Hello Xandarien,

Could you clarify the spelling of a word for me, as I am once again seeing conflicting data across multiple sources?

Is the word for husband hervenn or herven?

Thank you in advance!
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:47 am

Zinneth wrote:Hello Xandarien,

Could you clarify the spelling of a word for me, as I am once again seeing conflicting data across multiple sources?

Is the word for husband hervenn or herven?

Thank you in advance!
Zinneth


Either is fine! :) Hervenn is the older Noldorin form of the word. Double NN at the ends of words later collapsed to a single N, so Herven is the later Sindarin form.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Zinneth » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:34 pm

Xandarien wrote:Either is fine! :) Hervenn is the older Noldorin form of the word. Double NN at the ends of words later collapsed to a single N, so Herven is the later Sindarin form.


Thank you once again for your help!
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby erinnicoleborth » Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:57 pm

Hi there!

I am hoping to have the word "three" translated into Sindarin. I may then go have it transcribed from there. I am hoping to get a tattoo of this for my birthday next week. I have also contacted the thread for Quenyan translation to decide which is preferable. :)

Thank you so much!!

Ërìn
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby firetomysoul » Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:00 pm

erinnicoleborth wrote:Hi there!

I am hoping to have the word "three" translated into Sindarin. I may then go have it transcribed from there. I am hoping to get a tattoo of this for my birthday next week. I have also contacted the thread for Quenyan translation to decide which is preferable. :)

Thank you so much!!

Ërìn


In Sindarin the number 3 is:

neledh

:wink:
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Mesmerion » Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:09 am

Hello Xandarien! Newbie here... :)
I'd like to hear what you think about this Sindarin traslation of Into the West, RotK final song.

http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/taramiluiel_1.htm

In particular I was interested in the lines "What can you see on the horizon" = "Man pelich cened buin rain amar?", and "Don't say we have come now to the end" = "Avo bedo ve tellin sí nan methen". Are they correct or are there better translations?

Thanks in advance. :P
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:30 pm

What can you see on the horizon" = "Man pelich cened buin rain amar?", and "Don't say we have come now to the end" = "Avo bedo ve tellin sí nan methen"


Well... we know for a fact that the -CH ending means 'we', not 'you', so the first one is actually wrong.
Man pelich cened buin rain amar -> This says "What can we see ? border Earth". Buin isn't a word.
Man cenog am i veneldaeg = What do you see on the horizon?
Man pelog ceno/cened am i veneldaeg = What can you see on the horizon?
Man = What
cenog = you see (singular, informal)
am = upon
i = the
veneldaeg = horizon (literally 'heaven border')
pelog = you can
We can't say for certain whether Pol- would act as the other Sindarin auxiliary verbs (which take the -ed infinitive ending on the verb that follows them), so it might take the imperative (-o ending) form.

Avo bedo ve tellin sí nan methen
-> Eh. This says "Don't say we are having come here to the final end". Methen is an adjective, not a noun incidentally.
Avbedo/Avo bedo tellim/raithannem i veth = Don't say we came/we have reached the end.
Avbedo/Avo bedo = Tolkien left us two ways of using the verb Ava-, it can either attach or not, so it's personal preference.
tellim = we came
raithannem = we reached
i = the
veth = end

Basically that song is a really old translation, before we know a lot of what we do now :)
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Mesmerion » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:08 am

Well... That was unexpected.Eru bless this forum, and the fact that I wanted to check these sentences before getting a tattoo anyway. :Q

So Man cenog am i veneldaeg is gramatically correct, and Man pelog ceno/cened am i veneldaeg is constructed but it translates also the modal "can", I got it right?
And for the second sentence, is there any way to translate the word "now" which can be considered correct?
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:34 am

Mesmerion wrote:Well... That was unexpected.Eru bless this forum, and the fact that I wanted to check these sentences before getting a tattoo anyway. :Q

So Man cenog am i veneldaeg is gramatically correct, and Man pelog ceno/cened am i veneldaeg is constructed but it translates also the modal "can", I got it right?
And for the second sentence, is there any way to translate the word "now" which can be considered correct?


Oh, I missed out the word now, whoops!
Thî = Now (attested word)

I'm glad you did get it checked :D. Yes, you're quite right, the verb Pol- = can, to be able to is reconstructed (from Quenya).
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Mesmerion » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:05 am

Alright, so it's Avbedo/Avo bedo tellim/raithannem thî i veth? Is this the right position?

Thanks a whole lot Xandarien, I guess it's complete now! Oh yas, the satisfaction... :o
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Tue Mar 08, 2016 4:59 am

Mesmerion wrote:Alright, so it's Avbedo/Avo bedo tellim/raithannem thî i veth? Is this the right position?

Thanks a whole lot Xandarien, I guess it's complete now! Oh yas, the satisfaction... :o


Yip you have. It's "Don't say we have come now to the end" isn't it? We can just put the 'to' in there as well then.

Avbedo/Avo bedo tellim/raithannem thî na i veth
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Mesmerion » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:38 am

Perfect, that's it! Your help has been fundamental, Xandarien, thank you very much!
Keep going with this fantastic language, it's always a pleasure to know that somebody somewhere keeps studying and celebrating it. :D
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby IthalionRandir » Sun Apr 03, 2016 11:27 am

So there's a quote that is somewhat my mantra, but I wanted to simplify it. The result of my simplication is this:

"Noble mind; savage body"

I translated it to:

"Arod ind; dru rhond".

Is there any ending changes that need to happen for the adjectives or does that work? Thanks!
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:03 am

Hello! Sorry for not replying sooner, I'm away on holiday.

Adjectives in Sindarin follow their nouns and mutate:
Ind arod, rhond thraw = Noble mind, wild body
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Rose » Mon May 09, 2016 6:27 pm

Hello! :)

My friends and I have been poking around the internet for a Sindarin translation of the 'Fellowship' (for tattoo purposes) and keep getting conflicting answers.

Our original idea was 'govannas' because that's movie canon (and looks pretty in Tengwar) -
But we were told that the actual proper conjugation of that word should be 'covas' instead -
But that 'erthas' is a better choice than either of the above (but not as pretty in Tengwar) -
And that 'erthad' is either even better (according to one source) or not valid at all (according to another).

We'd very much appreciate any feedback or guidance you could give. :?

Thanks!
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Tue May 10, 2016 1:58 am

Rose wrote:Hello! :)

My friends and I have been poking around the internet for a Sindarin translation of the 'Fellowship' (for tattoo purposes) and keep getting conflicting answers.

Our original idea was 'govannas' because that's movie canon (and looks pretty in Tengwar) -
But we were told that the actual proper conjugation of that word should be 'covas' instead -
But that 'erthas' is a better choice than either of the above (but not as pretty in Tengwar) -
And that 'erthad' is either even better (according to one source) or not valid at all (according to another).

We'd very much appreciate any feedback or guidance you could give. :?

Thanks!


Hi. For clarity, I must state that you've already had an answer from myself twice (my username at Council of Elrond is Galadivren) in different places. I understand having a tattoo is something that you want to be very sure of that you've got right, so I will happily explain everything again (and hopefully in greater clarity).

'Movie canon' as you call it doesn't exist. The linguist asked to write the dialogue for the films, David Salo, used the linguistic notes available at the time, and created his own words and forms based on what we knew then. This is a good 16 years ago. Since then we have had multiple journals published containing Tolkien's notes, the most important being in 2007 and 2013. These gave us new vocabulary, new ways of expressing the future tense and confirmation of personal pronouns among other things.

There are two verbs for 'to meet'. Cova- and Covad-. The first is transitive (needs an object, e.g. "I meet you"), the second is intransitive (doesn't need an object, e.g. "We will meet"). These were confirmed in the 2007 journal, at least 7 years after the film dialogues were written.

There are then two ways of creating nouns from a verb. The first is to take the gerund form, the ending for which is either -ED or -AD depending on the verb type. Cova- is an A-stem verb and so it takes the -AD ending, making it Covad = A meeting. Covad- is an I-stem verb and so it takes the -ED ending, making it Covaded = A meeting. Here is the evidence showing that we know these are the gerundial endings.

The second way of creating a noun from a verb is to use what is called the 'abstract suffix', which is the ending -AS. This creates something bigger than itself, e.g. 'autumn' from 'fruit', or 'will' from 'inner mind' (see here). This creates Covas = A meeting, or Covadas = A meeting.

However, as the word you want is 'fellowship', a far better option is to use the verb Ertha- = to unite rather than Cova-/Covad- = to meet. Using what I've said above, this then gives you Erthad = A uniting, or Erthas = A union, a fellowship.

It concerns me slightly that you mention twice 'looks pretty in Tengwar', and 'but not as pretty in Tengwar'. The answers I have given you are the choice to make for the best Sindarin. Ultimately, would you rather have something more aesthetically pleasing to you (as you have to look at it), or would you rather know that what it says is correct? There's no 'correct answer' to that question, I have had people come to me who have chosen from both options because that fitted them better.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Rose » Tue May 10, 2016 4:17 am

Heya,

Nice to see you again! We've asked around a few different places, and half the responses we get seem to conflict - like that erthad works better than erthas, that covas works just fine for 'fellowship,' etc - hence asking for second (third, fourth) opinions.

I trust your expertise and researched a bit of Sindarin conjugation after our original chat (thanks for explaining it again so clearly and patiently) so that I wasn't navigating blind - it's just that getting conflicting information is a bit nerve-wracking. :shock:

Regarding the Tengwar - part of asking for a second (fifth?) opinion was hoping to get an alternative (or even almost-as-good-as) answer to 'erthas,' which is 100% our best bet for accuracy but is a wee bit plain. No need for concern, we'd not go for something inaccurate, but we might decide the whole thing is an idea best left undone since no real alternatives have arisen. :lol:

Thanks so much for your help!

xoxo
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby mtw » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:02 pm

Hello,

I am looking to get a tattoo and was hoping you would help with a translation.
The phrases I am considering are:

First love yourself

and

Love yourself first

Thanks
Mike
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:12 pm

mtw wrote:Hello,

I am looking to get a tattoo and was hoping you would help with a translation.
The phrases I am considering are:

First love yourself

and

Love yourself first

Thanks
Mike


Hi! Okay...

Main, melo ech = First, love yourself. This one works quite happily.
Melo ech sui i vain = Love yourself as the first. This one has to be worded a little differently :)

Main = First, pre-eminent, chief
Melo = Love!
ech = yourself
sui = as, like
i = the
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby mtw » Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:34 am

Xandarien wrote:...

Hi! Okay...

Main, melo ech = First, love yourself. This one works quite happily.
Melo ech sui i vain = Love yourself as the first. This one has to be worded a little differently :)

Main = First, pre-eminent, chief
Melo = Love!
ech = yourself
sui = as, like
i = the


Thanks so much! I have a quick follow up question. Regarding the second one, I am guessing that "vain" means first as well? Which is kinda funny given the quote.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:43 am

Heh yes. Yes in the second one the word Main has undergone soft mutation because it follows the word 'the' which changes the M to a V.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby mtw » Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:57 am

Thanks again!

I really do appreciate you taking your time to do this.

Mike
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby fang13 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:32 pm

Heya!

I'm looking for some help translating a phrase for a tattoo, please. I'm posting this in both the Sindarin and Quenya threads, as I'd like to see both and decide which I like better. I hope that's alright.

The phrase I would like translated is "I am too great a gift to the world to waste my time in self-pity and sadness." I plan to transcribe it in Tengwar Annatar italic.

I'm getting this tattoo as a way to help myself resist my depression. Sounds a bit arrogant lol, but that's why I want it done in a fictitious language; so people can't just walk up and read it and think "oh really? *raised eyebrow*." Anyways, I greatly appreciate any help with this!
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:21 pm

No problems, let's see what I can do for you... as I'm sure you can appreciate I can't do it directly word for word, so I hope this meets with your approval. I can always tweak them for different wordings!

Ni ant dhaer anin ardhon athan aint bain, ú-iuithathon lû no dem a naegrad anim = I am a great gift to the world beyond all gifts, I will not use time to be sad and cause pain to myself
Ni = I am
ant = a gift
dhaer = great
anin = to the
ardhon = world
athan = beyond
aint = gifts
bain = all
ú-iuithathon = I will not use
lû = time
no = to be
dem = sad
a = and
naegrad = to cause pain
anim = to myself
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby fang13 » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:36 am

Thank you, Xandarien! You're translation has actually inspired me to reconsider the wording and see if I can't make it a bit more elegant to begin with. I'm going to think a bit harder on this and see what I can come up with.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby fang13 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:16 pm

So I decided to simplify this quite a lot, and go with "I'd rather be ashes than dust" from an amazing Jack London quote. Thanks again for everyone's help! I really liked all your suggestions for my first attempt. This other quote just really hit home with me.
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