The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:14 am

Good thing I know Latin, eh :wink:

Mabo i aur
Seize the day (Carpe Diem)

Mabo i fuin
Seize the night (Carpe Noctem)

Maba- = To take, to seize
i = the
aur = day
fuin = night


Edit: How to say them.
I don't know if English is your first language, but it's the one I'm going to use for illustrative purposes -

Mabo
An a is always long in Sindarin like the word 'father', and the 'bo' is pronounced like a bow that you would shoot or wear (not bowing to someone).
so it's Maa-bow

i
The 'ee' sound in machine

aur
The 'au' is like the 'ou' in Loud or the word Ow, and the R is rolled. (So almost like the English word 'hour' but with a rolled r).

fuin
The 'ui' is like the 'wee' in Sweet, and the F and N are normal, so 'Fween'.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:32 am

The phrase I'm trying to write out is "I am me, Brian Patrick", but am stuck on both parts.
My name can be interpreted to mean 'high nobleman' (yes, it makes me sound a little upper class I know), but the only Sindarin equivalent I've found for this is possibly 'ar-' for high and 'arphen' for nobleman, but I've not figured out if these can be combined (ararphen??) in some way, or if there is a better way of saying this altogether. I did find mention of 'hall' for high and 'callon' for nobleman elsewhere, but only once...any ideas??
The phrase "I am me" (one of my first moments of genius in life - yikes) is also proving a litte tricky. Although there's some mention on 'nanye' being used as I am in Quenya, I've not had much luck in Sindarin, getting as far as 'im', which would then give you 'im nin' for I am me?


Okay, first off the 'I am me' part. There's three ways to say this:
Im nin = I am me (emphatic)
or
Ni nin = I am me (no emphasis)
or
Ni im = I am myself (me)

For correct English, I'd look at one of the top two, for correct Sindarin, I'd probably go with the bottom one.

Now then, the name :) I think you are trying to translate both names 'Brian' and 'Patrick' into one Sindarin name? Alrighty then, let's see what we can do...

Aranir = High, noble man
Brandir = Lofty, noble man

Really, I'd prefer to do it in the Elven style, and do it so one of the names is your given name, and one is more of an Epessë, (like Turin Turambar, Húrin Thalion, Beleg Cúthalion, etc.) which would give us some options that look like this:

Brandor Arphenir = Lofty nobleman
Brandor Aranir = Lofty nobleman (with the intimation of royalty)
Orchalor Arphenir = High, exalted nobleman
Orchalor Aranir = High, exalted nobleman (with the intimation of royalty)

the -or ending is a genderless suffix, but it makes into a name, rather than just giving you a word as a name (though it worked well enough for Beren).
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Thalion888 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:34 am

Xandarien, thank you so much for your quick and interesting reply!

I would like to stay true to Sindarin as much as possible (rather than just English written in Tengwar, which I personally think ruins the beauty of the language a little), so I will go with 'ni im' - curious how this literally seems to read 'myself I am', but as it's more about being me or being yourself, I think I actually prefer it this way.

Great job on the names as well thank you :-) I'll go with Brandor Arphenir as both words have roots to 'noble' which both my first and middle name do, so that works perfectly.

Really pleased with this, thank you! I'll post on the transcription thread to get this written out :-)

P.s. I also live in Scotland and have just discovered your website - nice that my search for one thing on here has lead to so many other good things :-D
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:53 am

I always like to double-check the alleged meaning of a name.

In the case of Brian, I couldn't find any conflict with what you supplied, but some sources point out that this interpretation is a bit speculative and based on a comparison with bre, hill, also the source of Bree. The name also appears independently in Brittany. Bretons accompanying William of Normandy brought it to East Anglia.

Another separate origin is in Old Occitan (southern France), where it was at first a nickname. It meant "maggot". If you don't want to be quite so high-falutin' and go for a bit of humor, maybe Xandrien could find a way to put that into Sindarin! :rofl:

Maybe a compound of one of the words for "to fly" (it works for English!) with leweg, worm/snake?

BTW, that'd then give you a connection to Farmer and Mrs. Maggot and family. Whose name Tolkien may have taken from Welsh. So now we're nearly full-circle, Celt to Celt!
Last edited by Almatolmen on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:41 am

Thalion888 wrote:Xandarien, thank you so much for your quick and interesting reply!

I would like to stay true to Sindarin as much as possible (rather than just English written in Tengwar, which I personally think ruins the beauty of the language a little), so I will go with 'ni im' - curious how this literally seems to read 'myself I am', but as it's more about being me or being yourself, I think I actually prefer it this way.

Great job on the names as well thank you :-) I'll go with Brandor Arphenir as both words have roots to 'noble' which both my first and middle name do, so that works perfectly.

Really pleased with this, thank you! I'll post on the transcription thread to get this written out :-)

P.s. I also live in Scotland and have just discovered your website - nice that my search for one thing on here has lead to so many other good things :-D


Glad I could help, and hurrah, always nice to have more people learning Sindarin :)
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Ima Cygnenoir » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:32 am

Calma suggested this thread, am C&P my original post thank you for your patience.:

was kinda hesitant about joining and asking for help, but I sure need some. am a fledgling author and am currently working on two stories, one a novela with Elves/Fae and have tried to include Sindarin language instead of just plain English since it is so beautiful and flows so gracefully, but am mangling it horribly. Language/math/music, have mental blocks that are insurmountable.
If some one could help me with translations? Might be an ongoing zombie-mode picking of your brain.
Thanx much
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:21 am

Hi there :-) welcome to the forum. Feel free to ask for anything to be translated and steal my brain as much as you like!
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Ima Cygnenoir » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:01 am

thanx Xandarien
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Vafþrúðnir » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:37 pm

Long-time lurker of the forum here, first time poster. My sincere gratitude and respect to you for so openly sharing your linguistic knowledge with others! If you would be so kind, may I approach you with a question of my own.

I've been trying to come up with a Sindarin translation of the phrase "the one who awakened stars" (or star-host) but wasn't sure if I formulated it correctly: so many Sindarin dialects, so many various spellings.

Would the Sindarin phrase for the above be "he i echiant elenath"? (Tried to derive 3rd person preterite from "echui [awakening]", wasn't sure if I did it right. I am also unsure regarding the presence of the letter "h' in the first word "he" - does it appear in some dialects but not others? I have seen it spelled both ways.)

Do I need a definite article ("in" elenath?) or can the phrase be stripped-down as in my example without the definite article being absolutely necessary?
The gender-neutrality of the phrase is not intentional - if I had to be more specific, I would formulate it with the masculine pronoun ("he who awakened..." or "it is he who awakened...") - but I assume that 3rd person Sindarin pronouns are gender-neutral anyway?

For the Sindarin variant of this phrase in the present tense, would it then become "he i echia elenath"? Got a feeling this one's wrong...

Essentially, I'm not as attached to this precise Sindarin word for stars (or, collectively, star-host in this example), as much as I wanted to get a grammatically correct formulation of the phrase as a whole - it's the verb, the past/present tense, and the pronoun that really matters.

Thank you for your time and for your consideration.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:04 am

Okay...let me go over what it should be first, and then I'll go over what you're getting stuck on :) .

I ven i echuiad [in Elenath/i nGiliath]

The one who awakened (the) stars
Elenath = Archaic, more poetic, (and ambiguous as to whether you mean Elves or stars)
Giliath = Third Age Sindarin version

Ten i echuiad i nGiliath
He who awakened the stars (Third Age Sindarin)

Hon i echuiad in Elenath
He who awakened the stars (Doriathrin Sindarin)

i ven = the one
i = who
echuiad = awakened
in = the (plural)

The verb for 'to awaken' is Echuia-
Ten = He/she/it, you're quite right it's ambiguous (and relies on context)
Hon = He. Doriathrin had different pronouns for he, she, and it.

You don't have to have the definite article, it will simply change the sentence from "He who awakened the stars." to "He who awakened stars." it's not a problem in Sindarin to do that.

Technically the above isn't in any tense at all, it's using the gerund form of the verb. If we want to start putting it in tenses (and really, 'proper' Sindarin, as although the above is readable, I'm not convinced it's how the Elves would speak), we have...
Present tense
Echuia [in Elenath/i nGiliath] = He awakens the stars (again you can remove 'in', making it Echuia [elenath/giliath]

Past tense
Echuiant [in Elenath/i nGiliath] / Echuiant [elenath/giliath] = He awakened (the) stars
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:22 pm

Xandrien, I'm not sure whether you're on my Friend list at Facebook or not (I'm just too lazy to check right now!), but if not I wanted you to know about something I found at deviantArt and shared on my Timeline. It's a poem about Imladris that the poet translated himself into Sindarin. I can't tell how good it is and he admits to uncertainty about a lot of stuff. I thought you might like to check it out. Keywords for onsite Search are Imladris and winter. If you look, let me know what you think. If there are MAJOR errors, maybe you might try to get in touch with the artist?
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:04 pm

Nope you haven't added me (facebook.com/xandarien is me, oddly enough :) )

Actually wondering whether that poem you're talking about is one I worked on with someone over at the Council of Elrond forum (well, advised, he has a slightly different approach to me, he wanted to retain the metre of the poem for an acrostic and cared more about rhyming than exactly correct language). I'll have a search.

Only one I can find is from 2004 - the author might not still care!
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:28 pm

That's the one. Author is myth187.

It's amazing how many Xandriens there are on Facebook. When I tried the address you gave me, I was told it wasn't available. If you want to Friend me, look for Gerald Aurand.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Isildilmë » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:04 am

And as Xand and Alma are both on my friends list, you should be able to find each other easily as long as you have the good name :) There is only one Gerald Aurand in my list ;)
Concerning the Official Tengwar Transcription Thread - VI
To all the newbees, Welcome to TORC !
Before posting anything on this thread, READ THE INTRODUCTION. For now, I didn't have the time to update the intro, so I let you read the intro of thread #IV here.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask in the threads or by email (isildilme@hotmail.com - write "Tengwar" somewhere in the subject in case you fall in my junkmail, because if I don't know, I wont open the message !). Note that I don't accept transcription requests by email, you have to post them here !

You can address yourself to me in French, Spanish or English as you wish.


Special message : I have now two precious sons. They are my priorities, and an additional explanation for the delays in my answers. I WILL answer you... but you might have to wait. Thank you for your comprehension.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:12 am

Xandrien found me and we Friended. Thanks to you both!
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Eatenflesh » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:58 am

Hi, I am looking for the sindarin word for Passion or Desire. I found somewhere the sindarin word for desire is aníra but I'm not sure.

Can you please help me with the translation? :wink:

Of course I want this for a tattoo, so afterwards I am gonna make a post to the topic for transcription.

I want to make the tattoo at 07/01 and it would be really nice of you if you can make the translation as soon as possible. :)
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:42 pm

You mean January 7, I presume? Like many Americans my first reaction is to wonder why you are rushed by something needed before July 1! :rofl:

I'm sure that Isildilme, being quebecoise, understood what you meant, but for future reference in dealing with us Yanks, remember that our usual order is mm/dd.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Eatenflesh » Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:29 am

haha yeah you are right!It's for 7th of January :P
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:52 am

Eatenflesh wrote:Hi, I am looking for the sindarin word for Passion or Desire. I found somewhere the sindarin word for desire is aníra but I'm not sure.

Can you please help me with the translation? :wink:

Of course I want this for a tattoo, so afterwards I am gonna make a post to the topic for transcription.

I want to make the tattoo at 07/01 and it would be really nice of you if you can make the translation as soon as possible. :)


Aníra is a verb stem (or he/she/it desires).

You have a choice of two words for this:
Anírad = Desiring (using the gerund form of the verb as a noun)
îr = Sexual desire
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Eatenflesh » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:37 am

Xandarien wrote:
Eatenflesh wrote:Hi, I am looking for the sindarin word for Passion or Desire. I found somewhere the sindarin word for desire is aníra but I'm not sure.

Can you please help me with the translation? :wink:

Of course I want this for a tattoo, so afterwards I am gonna make a post to the topic for transcription.

I want to make the tattoo at 07/01 and it would be really nice of you if you can make the translation as soon as possible. :)


Aníra is a verb stem (or he/she/it desires).

You have a choice of two words for this:
Anírad = Desiring (using the gerund form of the verb as a noun)
îr = Sexual desire


Thanks for your feedback!And what about passion?There is no such a word in Sindarin or generally in any elvish language?
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:24 am

Er...depends what sort of passion you guess! Passion can be anything from anger to love to obsession. There's Mael = Lust, but that's about it if we're regarding someone being passionate to someone. (Or Melthad= Seducing).
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Eatenflesh » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:56 am

Xandarien wrote:Er...depends what sort of passion you guess! Passion can be anything from anger to love to obsession. There's Mael = Lust, but that's about it if we're regarding someone being passionate to someone. (Or Melthad= Seducing).


You are right!I guess I was talking about passion for love.
I think I like the word Lust (Mael). :) I prefer not to use gerunds.

But you are completely sure for the translation, right?Because this is going to be in my arm forever! :D
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:15 am

Yes I'm positive :-) it's an attested word (one written by Tolkien).
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:24 pm

Perhaps cuinan, gorf, or hur?
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:36 am

Cuinan isn't a word (or a part of a verb). Gorf = impetus (read it first time as 'ring' with mutation :lol: ) and Hûr = Fiery spirit/readiness for action, yeah they both work for other meanings of passion, but given he was talking about desire, I assumed it was in a sense of 'to another person'.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Eatenflesh » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:21 pm

Xandarien wrote:Cuinan isn't a word (or a part of a verb). Gorf = impetus (read it first time as 'ring' with mutation :lol: ) and Hûr = Fiery spirit/readiness for action, yeah they both work for other meanings of passion, but given he was talking about desire, I assumed it was in a sense of 'to another person'.


Actually I am girl! :P
I love the word passion. Just passion, because it is so general and it can be applied to everything:passion for life, love, music etc. However, since there is no such word in Sindarin I think I prefer to chose a word that means passion for love. :wink:
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:33 pm

My apologies, 'she'! :oops:
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby svpsvp » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:13 pm

Hi I would like to get this three thing translated into sindarin please.

- Sergio

- Master of My fate, captain of my soul

- By the power of truth I while living have conquered the earth.

many thanks. Guren Glassui
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:13 am

svpsvp wrote:Hi I would like to get this three thing translated into sindarin please.

- Sergio

- Master of My fate, captain of my soul

- By the power of truth I while living have conquered the earth.

many thanks. Guren Glassui


Herdir i [amarth/vanadh] nîn, hest i fëa nîn = Master of my fate, Captain of my soul

Herdir = Master
Choice in brackets:
i amarth nîn = my fate (with the intimation of doom)
vanadh = fate (with the intimation of fortune, final end)
hest = Captain
i fëa nîn = my soul

Adh i dûr e-thannas, mi guinad orthorn i Geven = By the power of the truth, in living I have conquered the Earth

Adh = By
i = the
dûr = power, mastery
e-thannas = of the truth
mi = in
guinad = living
orthorn = I conquered
i Geven = the Earth

For me to translate 'Sergio' I need to know what it means :) and the Internet is giving me more than one option, I've found 'Servant' and 'Attendant' as well as 'Saint'.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:45 pm

Sergio<Sergius. This I think is, for all intents and purposes, untranslatable.

Ignore "saint". It just means that there are saints who bear the name. The same could be said of John.

The most common meaning given is "servant=attendant". However nowhere could I find a single citation to demonstrate this. My guess would be that this is based on a vague resemblance to servius.

The only other thing said about this name is that it may be ultimately of Etruscan origin. But again no citations and I couldn't find anything similar in lists of Etruscan names. Certainly no definition.

In the end, the best thing may be to just make a phonetic adaptation, from either the Italian or Latin versions. The difference is pronunciation. Either serjo or ser-gi-us, with hard g. And this is more relevant to transcription than to translation.
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