The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Zinneth » Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:55 pm

Hello again! I am wondering whether you could offer your opinion on a corrupted Sindarin term, one for which I know there is no true translation? I'm trying to see whether my final term seems logical given the limited Sindarin lexicon we have to work with. If this isn't allowed, feel free to delete this reply.

I have taken inspiration from the old Anglo-Saxon tradition of offering women as peace-weavers to enemy tribes to establish peace, in coming up with a Sindarin term that would mean "Peace Weaving," or a political marriage (for a story). As far as I can tell, there is no Sindarin verb for 'weave.' The closest words that fit were 'peace' (sídh) and 'weaver' (nathron). Fuse them together and you have: sínathron.

The next part of the process was more difficult. The word 'weaving' as I am using it is a gerund, which is a verbal noun. Since I don't have a genuine verb to work with, I decided to tack on the Sindarin verb ending that proved to be consistently used in the formation of gerunds: -ad. That left me with: sinathronad (I dropped the acute over the "i" since the verb ending added another syllable, and it no longer sounded right with the accent on the first one).

In your opinion, is my thought process logical in coming up with this term, or is there something else I missed in my research? Tolkien is rolling in his grave, I know, but I figure if Shakespeare can make up words, I can too, right?

Thanking you in advance!
Zinneth
P.S. In my first preview of this message, the profanity filter replaced b-a-s-t-a-r-d-i-z-e-d Sindarin term with bunnyslippers Sindarin term. :rofl: Perhaps I should have modified with the word 'corrupt' from the start...
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:07 am

Okey dokey...

First of all because of the word you found nathron, we know the verb to weave = nathra- (-on is a 'doer' suffix, so 'one who weaves'). The gerund of this is nathrad.

Sîdh + nathrad = Sínathrad

(Well done for getting the compound mutation right by the way!)
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Zinneth » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:49 am

Xandarien wrote:Okey dokey...

First of all because of the word you found nathron, we know the verb to weave = nathra- (-on is a 'doer' suffix, so 'one who weaves'). The gerund of this is nathrad.

Sîdh + nathrad = Sínathrad

(Well done for getting the compound mutation right by the way!)


Thank you so much - I love the correct term even better!! Now I've learned more about Sindarin verbs and, more importantly, how to find the infinitive form if a verb does not appear by itself in the dictionary. Your insight is very appreciated! :)
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Musume_no_Suoh » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:57 pm

I am trying to translate two phrases, and while I've found what I think to be correct, I hope you can verify for me. First is 'not all who wander are lost', which if the site I found is correct, translates as 'il ilya ya rana ier wanwa'. The second is 'the hidden door', 'i' dolen annon'. Any help you can give is greatly appreciated!!!
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:35 am

Musume_no_Suoh wrote:I am trying to translate two phrases, and while I've found what I think to be correct, I hope you can verify for me. First is 'not all who wander are lost', which if the site I found is correct, translates as 'il ilya ya rana ier wanwa'. The second is 'the hidden door', 'i' dolen annon'. Any help you can give is greatly appreciated!!!


ú randirath mistar = Not all those who wander are straying (lost)
ú = not
randirath = all the wanderers
mistar = are straying

I [annon/fen] thurin = The hidden door
I = The
annon = great door
fen = door
thurin = secret, hidden

Your first version looks like rather broken Quenya, there's no Sindarin in that at all. The second one is almost Sindarin, but there's no word 'dolen', or any verb dol- that means 'to hide'.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Hobbit_Guy » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:30 pm

Xandarien wrote:The second one is almost Sindarin, but there's no word 'dolen', or any verb dol- that means 'to hide'.

We have Gond dolen "Hidden rock" in the Later Quenta Silmarillion ch12 (WJ) from c. 1951, which might be considered Beleriandic or Sindarin; CT compares this to the entries of DUL- in the 1930s Etym.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:43 pm

Hobbit_Guy wrote:
Xandarien wrote:The second one is almost Sindarin, but there's no word 'dolen', or any verb dol- that means 'to hide'.

We have Gond dolen "Hidden rock" in the Later Quenta Silmarillion ch12 (WJ) from c. 1951, which might be considered Beleriandic or Sindarin; CT compares this to the entries of DUL- in the 1930s Etym.


The language of Gondolin was meant to be significantly distinct to other forms of Sindarin, but yes, indeed, I'd forgotten about that.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Musume_no_Suoh » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:11 am

Thank you, both of you. Here's a link to the site I'd used for my original translation: http://www.angelfire.com/empire2/angora ... lator.html it doesn't say which elvish it's using, just says elvish.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:11 am

Ah, that would explain it! No translator can give you an entirely accurate response, and that one seems to be mixing the languages together as if it's just been given dictionary files.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Bknot1 » Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:43 am

Hello,

I am looking for this phrase to be translated and letter transcribe in Sindarin:

Our body is love, our love is eternal.


Thanks for any and all help in advance.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:00 am

Bknot1 wrote:Hello,

I am looking for this phrase to be translated and letter transcribe in Sindarin:

Our body is love, our love is eternal.


Thanks for any and all help in advance.


Hi there.
I have two choices for you, which I will explain :)

Rhawemen meleth, melethemen uireb
= Our body (flesh) is love, our love is eternal
I rhaw vîn meleth, i veleth vîn uireb = Our body is love, our love is eternal

Rhaw = Body, flesh
meleth = love
uireb = eternal

The difference between the two sentences is that the second one uses possessive pronouns, our body, our love. The first sentence uses a suffix to indicate possession and is slightly more 'cutesy'.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Bknot1 » Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:47 pm

Thank you Xandarien for the quick response on translation and explaining the difference between the two sentences. That helps me out a lot.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Bknot1 » Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:52 pm

Xandarien wrote:
I rhaw vîn meleth, i veleth vîn uireb = Our body is love, our love is eternal


i think i figured out my own question I originally had..

but for some clarity:

I = our (which in the SD vin is "our" whci refer to "we" which is men..
vîn = is

was just trying how this phrase was translated..
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:05 am

Bknot1 wrote:
i think i figured out my own question I originally had..

but for some clarity:

I = our (which in the SD vin is "our" whci refer to "we" which is men..
vîn = is

was just trying how this phrase was translated..


Okay...

The pronoun in the sentence I translated for you is I ... vîn, where i = the and vîn = our. Literally, it says 'the love our'.
We know this is how possessive pronouns work from the inscription on the Moria gate: Celebrimbor o Eregion teithant i thîw hin - Celebrimbor of Eregion drew these signs where i thîw hin = 'the signs these', these signs.

Men does mean 'us' (Me = we are) and this relates to the possessive vîn because vîn is a mutated form of the original mîn.

I hope that clarifies things for you, if not let me know what I need to explain better :)
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Bknot1 » Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:07 am

Yes that does..

Just trying my best to understand the languages.. thanks for the help.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Taraisilwén » Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:48 pm

Hi :)

I was wondering if it would be possible to get this sentence translated?
"The road goes ever on and on..."

(english to sindarin)
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Orodrhandir » Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:39 pm

Hey. I am new here and was hoping to answer a couple questions. I am an avid hiker and have done a bunch of long distance hiking. Years ago I found out that most distance hikers have a nickname. I am a big Tolkien fan and thought to find something for a nickname along those lines.

I chose Ordorhandir, believing that it meant Mountain Wanderer. I was looking to verify that. I was also wandering if it would be possible to get it in Elven letters.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:00 am

Taraisilwén wrote:Hi :)

I was wondering if it would be possible to get this sentence translated?
"The road goes ever on and on..."

(english to sindarin)


Hello there, certainly!

I [ven/râd] ui-ledha athan a athan

The road travels ever beyond and beyond

i = the
men = road
râd = path (choice in brackets)
ui-ledha = it travels ever
athan = beyond
a = beyond

There's no word for 'onwards' or 'forwards' in Sindarin, annoyingly, hence I had to use 'beyond'.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:02 am

Orodrhandir wrote:Hey. I am new here and was hoping to answer a couple questions. I am an avid hiker and have done a bunch of long distance hiking. Years ago I found out that most distance hikers have a nickname. I am a big Tolkien fan and thought to find something for a nickname along those lines.

I chose Ordorhandir, believing that it meant Mountain Wanderer. I was looking to verify that. I was also wandering if it would be possible to get it in Elven letters.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


Nice nickname, and you're not far off with it :)

Orodrandir = Mountain wanderer

For the Tengwar (Elven lettering) you'll need to pop over to the Transcriptions Thread.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Orodrhandir » Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:30 am

Thanks

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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Taraisilwén » Sat Nov 08, 2014 2:03 pm

Hello there, certainly!

I [ven/râd] ui-ledha athan a athan

The road travels ever beyond and beyond

i = the
men = road
râd = path (choice in brackets)
ui-ledha = it travels ever
athan = beyond
a = beyond

There's no word for 'onwards' or 'forwards' in Sindarin, annoyingly, hence I had to use 'beyond'.



That's great, thank you so much.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby terezka_krat » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:31 am

Hello, could you translate this for me? Thank you so much :)

After all this time? Always.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:52 pm

terezka_krat wrote:Hello, could you translate this for me? Thank you so much :)

After all this time? Always.


Ab i lû hen bân. Anuir.
After all this time. Forever.

Ab = after
i lû hen = this time
bân = all
Anuir = forever
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby terezka_krat » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:51 pm

Thanks a lot for a quick response. May I have a question? You changed the word "always" to "forever". In Sindarin it has same meaning? Because in my native language (czech) and also in eglish these two words are not synonyms.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:31 am

terezka_krat wrote:Thanks a lot for a quick response. May I have a question? You changed the word "always" to "forever". In Sindarin it has same meaning? Because in my native language (czech) and also in eglish these two words are not synonyms.


Eh... in English the two words are direct synonyms, but yes, in Sindarin (due to a much lower vocabulary than any 'modern' language) they have the same meaning. :)
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Nymal » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:27 pm

Hello Xandarien, I'm here again, you helped me with the Echadin i amarth în.

I want to learn more about Sindarin, do you recommend a online book or something? How did you learn?

And could you please, help me with a name? I know that in elvish we give names for what a person is, I was thinking in something like "my star" and groom.

Regards,
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:04 am

How did I learn? Well! First of all I started with these:
Parma Tyelpelassiva
A Gateway to Sindarin
Real Elvish

Then I realised I needed further information which can only be found in the books:
Histories of Middle Earth (all three volumes if you have the collected editions or all twelve if you have the smaller versions)
Other books such as The Road Goes Ever On, The Letters of JRR Tolkien, etc.
Parma Eldalamberon (a linguistic journal)
Vinyar Tengwar (a second linguistic journal)

Then I made my own site to collate the information into one place and rewrote them to teach other people:
Sindarin Lessons

I did this as as you can see, there's an awful lot of places you have to look to find the information! Putting it all together in one place was my goal, and I continue to update it when new information appears.

I hope that helps answer your question :D

Now, about that name!
For 'star' we can use either the poetic êl or the normal word gil. For 'groom' I'm assuming you mean 'bridegroom' rather than 'someone who helps with the horses'? :)

Elnaer = Star groom
Gilnaer = Star groom
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Umiki » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:39 pm

oh hey Xandarien! i remember you
you're the admin of the sindarinlessons forum. nice seeing you here

that site really helped me out when i was first starting.
just started out here on this forum, hope i can learn a lot more about Sindarin from these two massive threads you got.

Tons packed in them, from what I can see. O,O
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:58 am

Umiki wrote:oh hey Xandarien! i remember you
you're the admin of the sindarinlessons forum. nice seeing you here

that site really helped me out when i was first starting.
just started out here on this forum, hope i can learn a lot more about Sindarin from these two massive threads you got.

Tons packed in them, from what I can see. O,O


Well there's lots of translations for you to have a look at! If you have any questions, please ask :)
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby MontyPopcorn » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:28 am

Hi, I'm wondering if you could help me here. I'd like a phrase I always get referred to translating into a nickname if possible, along the lines of as Mithrandir is Gray Pilgrim/Wanderer.

If possible I'd like the nickname to be something along the lines of 'Wise Beyond Years/Time' or 'Old Mind' in Sindarin, something that shows I'm wise for my age; I'm not sure if it's possible but I thought this'd be the best place to find out :)
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