The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Wed May 06, 2015 6:36 am

k.b.ok wrote:In fact, does anyone know of any software so that the pronunciation can be perfected and things like that? If you really manted to learn one of the languages fully, how would you do that?


No, there is no software currently available like Rosetta that would allow you to learn Sindarin. Would run into all sorts of copyright issues.

I don't know if you've looked at the Elvish News thread or not, but this might be of interest? Sindarin Library uses a piece of crowdfunded software, that both myself and DreamingFifi from http://www.realelvish.net are involved in. It shows you the grammar breakdown of every single word; it's an intuitive way for students to learn as you read the native language first.

Also if you're after audio, I have some audio on my own site for my own lessons: links here for the Lessons site and Forum.
Here's Tolkien reading Sindarin and here's Tolkien reading Quenya.

As far as learning Sindarin goes - there's my lessons, DreamingFifi's lessons, then there's older programmes like Pedin Edhellen and the previously mentioned A Gateway to Sindarin book by David Salo.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby k.b.ok » Fri May 08, 2015 3:25 am

ah yeah, i appreciate these thanks very much!
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby emmabunny » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:53 am

Hi Xandarien,
I was just wondering if you could please help me with a translation?
I'm looking to translate the following into Sindarin and am not having much luck with the Elvish/Sindarin dictionaries, so I thought I would look for help!

be brave, true, strong and free.
feel everything. find adventure. be here.

Thank you so much for your help!

Emma :)
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:30 pm

emmabunny wrote:Hi Xandarien,
I was just wondering if you could please help me with a translation?
I'm looking to translate the following into Sindarin and am not having much luck with the Elvish/Sindarin dictionaries, so I thought I would look for help!

be brave, true, strong and free.
feel everything. find adventure. be here.

Thank you so much for your help!

Emma :)


Sorry for the late reply, I only just saw this!

No beren, thand, belt a lain = Be brave, true, strong and free
Felo naid bain. No sí. = Feel everything. Be here.

'Adventure' doesn't exist, and the only thing I can think of that might work is Hiro hûr = Find a readiness for action (hûr = readiness for action, vigour, fiery spirit). Is that any use?

No = Be
beren = brave, bold
thand = true, firm, abiding
belt = strong (in body)
a = and
lain = free
Felo = feel emotion
naid = things
bain = all
sí = here
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Walkerd1602 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:50 pm

Hi Xanderien, hope you're well!!

I was wondering if you could translate some names for me please in to Sindarin. I'm looking fir:

1) Dawn Marie

2) Evelyn Gracie May

Or whatever we can get closest to those names!!

Thanks very much for any help you can offer :)
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:49 am

Walkerd1602 wrote:Hi Xanderien, hope you're well!!

I was wondering if you could translate some names for me please in to Sindarin. I'm looking fir:

1) Dawn Marie

2) Evelyn Gracie May

Or whatever we can get closest to those names!!

Thanks very much for any help you can offer :)


My apologies that you had to wait so long! Unfortunately I was on holiday without Internet access, and got back today.

Dawn = Minuial

The meaning of Marie seems to be a little debated, I've found "bitter", "sea of bitterness" or "sea of sorrow", "rebellion", "wished-for child" and "mistress or lady of the sea." By meaning -
Bitter (Saer)
Saereth = Bitter female
Saeril = Bitter female
Saerel = Bitter female
Saerwen = Bitter maiden
Saerien = Bitter daughter
Saerben = Bitter person

Bitter sea = Saeraear (really doesn't sound right)
Sad sea = Demaear
Lady of the sea (as a sentence) = Heryn en-aear, Brennil en-aear, Hiril en-aear (as a name) = Aearcheryn, Aearvrennil, Aearchiril
'Rebellion' doesn't exist in Sindarin.

Give me a little while to do the other one (very long drive home).

Evelyn - can apparently mean 'hazelnut' (this doesn't exist), some people think of it as a version of Eve (so 'first woman'), other ideas are 'radiance' or 'beauty'.
Beauty = Bainas (Beautiful = Bain)
Baineth = Beautiful female
Bainil = Beautiful female
Bainel = Beautiful female
Bainwen = Beautiful maiden
Bainien = Beautiful daughter

Radiance = Calad or Cal-
Caladeth = Female of radiance, light
Caladil = Female of radiance, light
Caladel = Female of radiance, light
Caladwen = Maiden of radiance, light
Caladien = Daughter of radiance, light

First woman = Mainvess or Eruivess

Gracie = I assumed this was a diminutive of 'Grace' (it made sense to me) but apparently it can also mean 'love' or 'favour'.
Grace = Bless
Blessil = Female of grace
Blessel = Female of grace
Blesswen = Maiden of grace
Blesseth = Female of grace
Blessien = Daughter of grace

Love = Meleth
Melethil = Female of love
Melethel = Female of love
Melethwen = Maiden of love
Melethien = Daughter of love

May = Lothron (the month of May)

Phew. I hope that is helpful!
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Walkerd1602 » Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:07 am

Thanks very much for the translations! I'm looking to get them as a tattoo so will hopefully get them transcribed soon :lol:

Thank you for taking the time to translate them for me, hope you had a good holiday!!
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby emmabunny » Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:54 am

Thank you so much! I really appreciate your help :)
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:14 pm

I'm looking for synonyms to help emmabunny. nothin so far in Sindarin, but there are some in what could be considered Sindarin analogs, such as:

Gnomish
gwionert
n. deed of valour
[GL/44.7901] Group: Eldamo. Published 2015-07-29 13:27:02 by Eldamo Import

Sindarin
valour name gorn [gyrn]

Noldorin 5^mY7T5
cardh
n. deed, feat
[Ety/362] Group: Hiswelókë's Sindarin Dictionary. Published 2011-10-11 20:08:48 by imported
carth
n. deed, feat
[Ety/362] Group: Hiswelókë's Sindarin Dictionary. Published 2011-10-11 20:08:48 by imported

Sindarin
cardh [cerdh] name deed, house, building
cared [cerid] name doing, making

Gnomish
igol
adj. exciting; excitable
[GL/50.1901] Group: Eldamo. Published 2015-07-29 13:27:57 by Eldamo Import

Sindarin
bold adj. beren
bold adj. cand [caind]

Bold deeds? Cerid caind?
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:04 am

Bold deeds = Cairth verin or Cairth gaind (It may take the irregular plural Certh in the same way its opposite úgarth = sin, bad deed does, but it isn't stated).

A lot of the Gnomish/Golodogrin words had their roots/words reused for other things later on.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:49 am

For "find bold deeds":

rada
find a way
rada- (make a way) (i rada, idh radar)

× Unverified or debatable content.
[Parviphith] Published 2012-11-16 22:33:57 by Parviphith Import

rad- vb. find a way, make a way
râd [raid] name path, track
rada- vb. find a way, make a way

find vb. hir-
find vb. tov-
find a way, make a way vb. rad-
find a way, make a way vb. rada-

hunt vb. fara- (phrase, to hunt for?)

run vb. nor- (in a phrase like run after?)

ban-
to meet, come up against
[PE17/016.2303] Group: Eldamo. Published 2015-07-29 13:23:16 by Eldamo Import

govad-
v. to meet
[mae govannen LotR/I:XII, Letters/308] Etym. "to walk together". Group: Hiswelókë's Sindarin Dictionary. Published 2011-10-11 20:09:23 by imported
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:46 pm

Think you might find this useful Alma... Dictionary. I keep it updated with all the new material, it's got the new words from PE22 in it.

To find = Hir-
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:50 pm

Thank you, Xandarian.

emmabunny has made a transcription request of Isildilmë . So she needs the translation for "find adventure". She told Isildilmë to use the English word adventure since there wasn't any translation. It's why I was looking for a way to express it. Otherwise, it'd be a linguistic mongrel.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:00 pm

In ancient Roman religion and myth, Maia embodied the concept of growth,[11] as her name was thought to be related to the comparative adjective maius, maior, "larger, greater." Originally, she may have been a homonym independent of the Greek Maia, whose myths she absorbed through the Hellenization of Latin literature and culture.[12]
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:02 pm

In ancient Roman religion and myth, Maia embodied the concept of growth,[11] as her name was thought to be related to the comparative adjective maius, maior, "larger, greater." Originally, she may have been a homonym independent of the Greek Maia, whose myths she absorbed through the Hellenization of Latin literature and culture.[12]

Her name is related to μαῖα (maia), an honorific term for older women related to μήτηρ (mētēr) 'mother' Maia also means "midwife" in Greek.[9]

The medieval name Ava is an abbreviation of a Germanic name containing the first element av-, meaning water from Proto-Persian word ab or av for water. Saint Ava was a 9th-century princess, daughter of Pepin II of Aquitaine. Ava was also the name of a medieval German woman poet. This name is the origin of the Norman French name of Aveline, which in turn gave rise to the English given name of Evelyn.

[this is not quite accurate. Av- would be cognate to the Old. Persian, not derived from it. So is Latin aqua and the -ey of Mersey (border river). Part of my last name, Au(e), meaning both island and water meadow is as well. But there is a widespread element in Germanic names seen in Runic inscriptions as auja that means luck and implies fortune in the material sense. It's why the alma is in Almatolmen. That may be the actually element intended in the shortened name Ava.]


Evelyn is also sometimes used as an Anglicisation of the Irish or Aibhilín and Éibhleann.[1] Aibhilín is a variant form of which is also derived from the Norman French Aveline.[2] Éibhleann, on the other hand, is said to be derived from the Old Irish óiph, which means "radiance", "beauty"; a variant of this name is Éibhliu, another Anglicised form of the name is Evilin.

I once read in a book of biblical scholarship that the traditional derivations of Mary' like many in the OT, are folk etymology. The more accurate etymology should be from a Semitic root meaning high or height. It is found in words meaning highlander or the fortified "uptown" like an acropolis, reserved for aristocrats. It's also found in words meaning lord/lady as seen in this discussion:

[quote][I like the Aramaic version the best: Lady or Sovereign. Saint Jerome, with his linguistic exposure to the Christian East noted this Aramaic interpretation of “Lady” for Mary as most appropriate.

In Aramaic or Syriac, the word Mar means Lord. In that tradition, both saints and bishops are given the title Mar. Incidentally, this is why the Church founded in India by Saint Thomas is called the Mar Thoma Church. Mar is akin to Dominus in Latin or Lord or Sir in English. Mary’s name then is a regal title and this best expresses the message of Saint Gabriel to Saint Joachim and Saint Anne./quote]

Grace in Christianity is the free and unmerited favour of God as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowing of blessings.[3]

grace (n.)
late 12c., "God's unmerited favor, love, or help," from Old French grace "pardon, divine grace, mercy; favor, thanks; elegance, virtue" (12c., Modern French grâce), from Latin gratia "favor, esteem, regard; pleasing quality, good will, gratitude" (source of Italian grazia, Spanish gracia; in Church use translating Greek kharisma), from gratus "pleasing, agreeable," from PIE *gwreto-, suffixed form of root *gwere- (3) "to favor" (cognates: Sanskrit grnati "sings, praises, announces," Lithuanian giriu "to praise, celebrate," Avestan gar- "to praise").

In the New Testament, the word translated as grace is the Greek word charis (/ˈkeɪrɪs/; Ancient Greek: χάρις), for which Strong's Concordance gives this definition; "Graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude)" [5][6] A Greek word that is related to charis is charisma (gracious gift). Both these words originated from another Greek word chairo (to rejoice, be glad, delighted).[7]

In the Old Testament, the Hebrew term used is chen [8][9] (חֵן), which is defined in Strong's as "favor, grace or charm; grace is the moral quality of kindness, displaying a favorable disposition".[10] In the King James translation, chen is translated as "grace" 38 times, "favour" 26 times, twice as "gracious",[11] once as "pleasant",[12] and once as "precious".[13]

JRRT often uses, especially in Quenya' God-gift or God-sweetness, which in Sindarin would be Eruann or Erulaich. ([PE17/148.3310] leich < leχı̯ < liχı̯ā < lisyā. Group: Eldamo. Published 2015-07-29 13:28:11 by Eldamo Import)
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Zinneth » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:28 pm

Hello! I am struggling to find a Sindarin word for Grandfather. Does one exist? If not, how would that familial relationship be described? Father of my father? Thanking you in advance!

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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:28 pm

Zinneth wrote:Hello! I am struggling to find a Sindarin word for Grandfather. Does one exist? If not, how would that familial relationship be described? Father of my father? Thanking you in advance!

Zinneth


Hello! No, there isn't a single word, you have to say Adar adar = Father's father or Adar naneth = Mother's father. They're the formal versions. The informal versions are Ada ada = Daddy's daddy and Ada nana = Mummy's daddy.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Zinneth » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:34 pm

Xandarien wrote:
Hello! No, there isn't a single word, you have to say Adar adar = Father's father or Adar naneth = Mother's father. They're the formal versions. The informal versions are Ada ada = Daddy's daddy and Ada nana = Mummy's daddy.


Thank you very much, Xandarien!

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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Duramis86 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:00 am

Hiya Xanderian, appreciate your work a lot. I was wondering if you could translate the verse "Walk by faith and not by sight" to Sindarian?

Thanks! :)
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:58 am

Duramis86 wrote:Hiya Xanderian, appreciate your work a lot. I was wondering if you could translate the verse "Walk by faith and not by sight" to Sindarian?

Thanks! :)


Certainly!

Pado [n'astor/na mronwe] a ú na chened

Your choice in brackets is because Sindarin has two words that both mean 'faith' with slightly different nuances.
Astor = Faith, loyalty
Bronwe = Endurance, faith

Pado = Walk
na = by, with, of
a = and
ú = not
chened = seeing, sight
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:35 am

I tried looking for belief, which is perhaps closer in intent. Nothing in Sindarin, but there is a root in Quenya.

Quenya
sav-
believe (that statements, reports, traditions, etc. are) true, accept as fact
sav- vb. "believe (that statements, reports, traditions, etc. are) true, accept as fact" (VT49:27; the fist person aorist savin is given). Not used with a person as object (in the sense of believing that this person tells the truth); with a noun, name or corresponding pronoun as object, sav- implies "I believe that he/she/it really exists/existed": Savin Elessar "I believe that Elessar really existed" (VT49:27). To "believe in" someone meaning "believe that (s)he tells the truth" can be paraphrased as (for instance) savin Elesarno quetië "I believe in Elessars words" (lit. speaking). (VT49:28)

Another suggestion:

estel
faith
: The noun estel "hope, trust, steady purpose" seems to approach the meaning of "faith" (in the religious sense) (MR:320)

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[Parviphith] Published 2012-11-16 22:33:53 by Parviphith Import
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:51 am

Well I know it's a quote from Corinthians, but beyond that I don't have any deeper insight into its meaning - I just gave them the quote word for word. Estel would also work yes, as a 'hope, firm abiding trust' kind of faith.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:07 am

A wonderful discussion of estel as a philosophical concept. It makes the word seem an even more appropriate choice: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Estel_(philosophical_concept)

Pado n'estel a ú na chened?
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Duramis86 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:09 pm

Thanks Almatolmen and Xandarien! Really appreciate the information! Yes, I think estel would be fitting in the context of the verse. A religious trust in that sense. It has a nice ring to it as well :)

So it would be Pado n'estel a ú na chened as Almatolmen mentioned?
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Almatolmen » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:37 pm

Glad if my contribution was helpful, Duramis86.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:23 pm

Duramis86 wrote:Thanks Almatolmen and Xandarien! Really appreciate the information! Yes, I think estel would be fitting in the context of the verse. A religious trust in that sense. It has a nice ring to it as well :)

So it would be Pado n'estel a ú na chened as Almatolmen mentioned?


Yes, it would :)
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Zinneth » Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:04 pm

Hello Xandarien!

Is ion (son) both singular and plural? I'm finding conflicting data in different Sindarin references. E.g.:

ion [ion] son
iôn [yn] descendant, son

Thank you for clarifying! :)

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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Xandarien » Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:39 am

Zinneth wrote:Hello Xandarien!

Is ion (son) both singular and plural? I'm finding conflicting data in different Sindarin references. E.g.:

ion [ion] son
iôn [yn] descendant, son

Thank you for clarifying! :)

Zinneth


Hello! No, ion/iôn is just the singular. The plural of ion = yn, or of the variant spelling iôn = ŷn.
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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Zinneth » Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:33 pm

Xandarien wrote:
Zinneth wrote:Hello Xandarien!

Hello! No, ion/iôn is just the singular. The plural of ion = yn, or of the variant spelling iôn = ŷn.


Much appreciated — thank you!

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Re: The Official Sindarin Translation Thread II

Postby Huntress227 » Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:39 pm

Hello! I need to get a couple of things translated into Sindarin for my first tattoo. I will also then be converting them into Tengwar, If anyone has any suggestions on how best to do that, it would be awesome. I used to speak a little Sindarin back in high school(not as much as I would have liked), so I want this to be as accurate as possible and know better than to try to go off of random generator crap. I appreciate this feed and the awesome work y'all do. First off, I'd like to get translation for the word "Huntress" as it is my nickname. (Translation might be "Female Hunter/Lady of the Hunt," maybe?)

Secondly, I'm heavily considering getting one of these Tolkien quotes. I'd like to get all translated so I can choose between them.
: "A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities."

"Courage is Found in unlikely places."

"But in the end, it's only a passing shadow, even darkness must pass. A new day will come, and when the sun shines it'll shine out the clearer."

Thank you so much for helping me, I am so excited to see the results!!! :D
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