Old English Runes (The Hobbit)

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Old English Runes (The Hobbit)

Postby morgoth88 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:10 am

When is the symbol for "ST" used? For example, would it be used in the word "misty"?
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Re: Old English Runes (The Hobbit)

Postby Xandarien » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:25 am

Do you mean the Dwarven Cirth runes? Or actual Old Norse runes?
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Re: Old English Runes (The Hobbit)

Postby morgoth88 » Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:06 pm

Xandarien wrote:Do you mean the Dwarven Cirth runes? Or actual Old Norse runes?


Not Cirth, English Runes as Tolkien refers to them in the Hobbit. Right before chapter 1 he gives a quick summary
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Re: Old English Runes (The Hobbit)

Postby Xandarien » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:11 am

Eh, which version of The Hobbit do you have? (Publisher, year). They're all different, so I want to make sure I give you the correct answer :)
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Re: Old English Runes (The Hobbit)

Postby morgoth88 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:36 am

1995 sorry for the late reply
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Re: Old English Runes (The Hobbit)

Postby Xandarien » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:09 pm

Right, sorry for such a long delay to the answer.

In the English word 'misty', which is a modern word, yes, you would use the rune that is the ST together, instead of the S and the T separately. If you were using them to write any Elven language or the Dwarven Khuzdul, you wouldn't.
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Re: Old English Runes (The Hobbit)

Postby morgoth88 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:45 pm

How come it isn't used in "stone" or "stand" or "abreast"? As you can see by looking at Thror's map
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Re: Old English Runes (The Hobbit)

Postby Xandarien » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:31 am

morgoth88 wrote:How come it isn't used in "stone" or "stand" or "abreast"? As you can see by looking at Thror's map


Ignore the fact the words on Thror's map are in Modern English, the map itself was written in the Third Age of Middle Earth - this is what Tolkien was trying to differentiate.
In Angerthas Daeron (the version used by the Dwarves), there was no such thing as an ST sound, therefore there was no rune for it - as he tried to explain in a letter much later, these runes are his way of translating the original Dwarvish runes, in the same way that Old English is used in the book to represent Rohirric.

So 'stone' 'stand and 'abreast' are really written in Khuzdul, the Dwarven language, but he's translated them using these runes.
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Re: Old English Runes (The Hobbit)

Postby morgoth88 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:12 pm

Ok but I still don't get how "misty" would be any different from "stand", "stone" etc. I need to know this for a tattoo I want and it has to be 100% perfect, so I'm sorry if I don't understand what you're saying.
I want it to say "Far over the misty mountains cold" and the only thing that's holding me back is that Tolkien says that a rune for "st" is sometimes used. And I haven't seen any example of it being used. And I want the runes to be the ones you see in The Hobbit. Not Cirth, Old English Runes which is what Tolkien calls them in The Hobbit
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Re: Old English Runes (The Hobbit)

Postby morgoth88 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:48 pm

Image

Image

The first picture uses the "st" symbol in "misty" and the second one doesnt. I looked online and I have seen both versions used.
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