READ ONLY - Official Quenya Translation Thread - I

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Postby heckelucas » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:54 pm

no words left to describe the awsome work you've been doing here.

thank you!
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Postby Isildilmë » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:39 pm

Vea mi olori wrote:I like the festive thoughts! I would translate your phrase as "may a star shine on your new year", reducing the complexity and makingNai elen silë vinyacoranarolya/tya*.

My own thoughts would lean away from stars, as they're already used very heavily in Quenya, so a bit of fresh idiom is needed! Something like "May the Valar [be smiling] on your new year":Nai Valar raitëatë vinyacoranarolya/tya.

For Christmas... difficult as we have no way of knowing how the Elves would have viewed Christmas, but as the word is derived in English from "Christ mass", i.e. Christ's feast day, we can have something likemerendë Hristova(literally "Christ's feast") or, more speculatively,Hristomerendë. As for a phrase, I'd go with something likeI alassë Hristomerendëo tielyanna"The joy of [Christmas] on your path" orI alassë Hristomerendëo lyenna"The joy of [Christmas] to you/upon you".

I hope those suggestions have made up a little for my unforgivable absence!





*I havevinyamar[b]as a place-name and[b]vinyariëas a phrase for "new year's day" so I don't think the compounding is just restricted to proper names.

d'ahhhhhh, I would have loved to have this before I prepare and send my card... too late this year... so I just copied what is above and will look more carfully at it later... thanks anyway, your opinion is always welcome... and probably a lot better than mine !
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Postby valgunn » Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:25 pm

Hello this is my first post!

I'm looking for assistance and hopefully you can help me out.

Wisdom as it describes mental ability and capacity.

Prowess as it measures physical ability and strength.

Courage as it gauges empathy, willpower and spiritual strength.

Bearing as it represents command of personality, stature and presence.

Ardor as it shows intense devotion, eagerness, or enthusiasm.

Virtue as it is a capacity for goodness and purity.

I think I might have two of them (which might not be correct) :

Wisdom = Sanar
Virtue = Órë

Thanks in advance!
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Postby Gladhaniel » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:50 am

Vea mi olori wrote:heckelucas

There is no general word for time, so I've substituted "hour" instead":

the right person, the wrong hour.
the right hour, the wrong person.

I téra* quen**, I raica lúmë
I téra* lúmë, I raica quen**


I initially used the wordquencompounded with the adjectives, i.e.téraquen, raicaquen, but to do that is to permanently assign the quality to a person. If you wanted the sentiment that it would always be the right or wrong person (I would imagine not, in such a contingency-based sentence), then you could join them up.

*Isn't téra a synonym for straight (as in "the straight road")? I'm guessing the meaning we want here would be more among the lines of good; I'm not sure what word would convey that, though. Apparently, vanima is another possible translation, but it also means fair, beautiful, proper, so I'm not convinced about that choice. What about mára good?
** The stem of the word is quen- indeed, but I believe it takes an accent (quén) when standing alone without ending.

Vea mi olori wrote:I like the festive thoughts! I would translate your phrase as "may a star shine on your new year", reducing the complexity and makingNai elen silë vinyacoranarolya/tya*.

Why silë? :)

Vea mi olori wrote:My own thoughts would lean away from stars, as they're already used very heavily in Quenya, so a bit of fresh idiom is needed! Something like "May the Valar [be smiling] on your new year":Nai Valar raitëatë vinyacoranarolya/tya.

I just looked into more detail at the use of nai, and it would seem that it is usually used with the future tense! So here I think I would write the verb raituvar. :) Anyhow, I love the general idea! :D Very original and Quenya-ish.

valguun:

Wisdom: I believe sanar means either mind or thinker, reflector - so it might not be what you're looking for. I would suggest nolwë "secret lore" or nólë "long study, lore, knowledge" instead.
Prowess: This word is not in the dictionary, but perhaps túrë "mastery, victory, strength, might" would not be too far from the meaning you're looking for.
Courage: The only exact translation I could find is huorë "heart-vigour," which can apparently also be used as a proper noun.
Bearing: I was unable to find a direct equivalent, but what about cánë valour?
Ardor: I'm sorry, I'm utterly unable to find a good translation for that one. :( I searched for many Quenya synonyms, but none of them exists in the dictionary I'm using.
Virtue: Órë means "heart, inner mind," the "nearest equivalent of 'heart' in our application to feelings, or emotions (courage, fear, hope, pity, etc.)" Maybe we could combine it with manë "morally good" to create manë órë "morally good heart, inner mind."

I hope I was able to help a bit! :) Like always, I would suggest that you wait for a second point of view to make sure there's no mistakes in what I said. :D Besides, Vea mi olori is surely going to find new ideas I didn't think about. :)
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Postby Vea mi olori » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:09 pm

Gladhaniel wrote:*Isn't téra a synonym for straight (as in "the straight road")? I'm guessing the meaning we want here would be more among the lines of good; I'm not sure what word would convey that, though.

I've got it as "straight, right", so went with the connotations of "right", "correct" etc. Plus the sentence "the right person at the right time" or the like has a sense of destiny to it, so a word with connections to roads seemed to fit. Vanimaonly has those kinds of glosses in "Qenya", so I disregarded it. I suppose it could work just as well for a literal translation, though. MáraI hadn't considered, as the phrase means "correct" more than it does "morally right", which is what "good" might mean in this instance.

Gladhaniel wrote:** The stem of the word is quen- indeed, but I believe it takes an accent (quén) when standing alone without ending.

You're right there, now I check. The stem-form changes...

Vea mi olori wrote:I like the festive thoughts! I would translate your phrase as "may a star shine on your new year", reducing the complexity and makingNai elen silë vinyacoranarolya/tya*.

Gladhaniel wrote:Why silë? :)

I used it as the aorist tense forsil-, assílais the present-ongoing tense, suggesting to me that it's already happening, thus being incompatible with the future tense and references earlier, resulting in a construction like "it will be that they are", which doesn't feel quite right to me. Also, the aorist tense can be used for eternal actions, so there's also the sense of the wish that they will be smiling on someone and never stop.

Gladhaniel wrote:I just looked into more detail at the use of nai, and it would seem that it is usually used with the future tense! So here I think I would write the verb raituvar

Again, bang on.

Gladhaniel wrote:Wisdom: I believe sanar means either mind or thinker, reflector - so it might not be what you're looking for. I would suggest nolwë "secret lore" or nólë "long study, lore, knowledge" instead.

To add to that, [ñ]olemëis directly glossed "wisdom", although it may have been replaced withnolmëlater. Personally though, I'd be inclined to stick with[ñ]olemëasnolmëhas connotations of book learning, while wisdom is generally not learned from books. Either will do, though.

Gladhaniel wrote:Prowess: This word is not in the dictionary, but perhaps túrë "mastery, victory, strength, might" would not be too far from the meaning you're looking for.

"Prowess" is somewhat tricky, given the modern English vocabulary... it touches on so many things. It can mean skill (curu[b] or[b]curuwë(skill of the hand, craft))or valour (cánë), with a host of other chivalric connotations, all depending on what slant you want to put on it.

Gladhaniel wrote:Courage: The only exact translation I could find is huorë "heart-vigour," which can apparently also be used as a proper noun.

Seconded.

Gladhaniel wrote:Bearing: I was unable to find a direct equivalent, but what about cánë valour?

No ideas here, I'm afraid. I wouldn't use valour personally, as "bearing" is a bit more neutral.

Gladhaniel wrote:Ardor: I'm sorry, I'm utterly unable to find a good translation for that one. :( I searched for many Quenya synonyms, but none of them exists in the dictionary I'm using.

Again, it's really awkward. The best I can do is "eagerness to go in some direction", which isminiëstemmed frommina.

Gladhaniel wrote:Virtue: Órë means "heart, inner mind," the "nearest equivalent of 'heart' in our application to feelings, or emotions (courage, fear, hope, pity, etc.)" Maybe we could combine it with manë "morally good" to create manë órë "morally good heart, inner mind."

I'd personally usefairëovermanë

Several choices there, hope I haven't made things more confusing...
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Postby Gladhaniel » Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:18 am

Vea mi olori wrote:
Gladhaniel wrote:*Isn't téra a synonym for straight (as in "the straight road")? I'm guessing the meaning we want here would be more among the lines of good; I'm not sure what word would convey that, though.

I've got it as "straight, right", so went with the connotations of "right", "correct" etc. Plus the sentence "the right person at the right time" or the like has a sense of destiny to it, so a word with connections to roads seemed to fit. Vanimaonly has those kinds of glosses in "Qenya", so I disregarded it. I suppose it could work just as well for a literal translation, though. MáraI hadn't considered, as the phrase means "correct" more than it does "morally right", which is what "good" might mean in this instance.

Seen that way, I guess téra could work indeed. :) With what you say, I think I would discard vanima as well - and as for mára, perhaps it can be okay, but only if it fits the sought meaning.

Vea mi olori wrote:
Gladhaniel wrote:
Vea mi olori wrote:I like the festive thoughts! I would translate your phrase as "may a star shine on your new year", reducing the complexity and makingNai elen silë vinyacoranarolya/tya*.

Why silë? :)

I used it as the aorist tense forsil-, assílais the present-ongoing tense, suggesting to me that it's already happening, thus being incompatible with the future tense and references earlier, resulting in a construction like "it will be that they are", which doesn't feel quite right to me. Also, the aorist tense can be used for eternal actions, so there's also the sense of the wish that they will be smiling on someone and never stop.

Makes sense! :)

Vea mi olori wrote:
Gladhaniel wrote:Wisdom: I believe sanar means either mind or thinker, reflector - so it might not be what you're looking for. I would suggest nolwë "secret lore" or nólë "long study, lore, knowledge" instead.

To add to that, [ñ]olemëis directly glossed "wisdom", although it may have been replaced withnolmëlater. Personally though, I'd be inclined to stick with[ñ]olemëasnolmëhas connotations of book learning, while wisdom is generally not learned from books. Either will do, though.

Good point! Nólemë/Ñólemë might be older, but as it means "deep lore, wisdom" according to the Ardalambion dictionary, it's true that it probably has a more general connotation of wisdom.

Vea mi olori wrote:
Gladhaniel wrote:Prowess: This word is not in the dictionary, but perhaps túrë "mastery, victory, strength, might" would not be too far from the meaning you're looking for.

"Prowess" is somewhat tricky, given the modern English vocabulary... it touches on so many things. It can mean skill (curu[b] or[b]curuwë(skill of the hand, craft))or valour (cánë), with a host of other chivalric connotations, all depending on what slant you want to put on it.

Great suggestions! :)

Vea mi olori wrote:
Gladhaniel wrote:Ardor: I'm sorry, I'm utterly unable to find a good translation for that one. :( I searched for many Quenya synonyms, but none of them exists in the dictionary I'm using.

Again, it's really awkward. The best I can do is "eagerness to go in some direction", which isminiëstemmed frommina.

That sounds like a perfect way to put it! :D Just out of curiosity, replacing the final a of mína by transformed the verb into a noun? I didn't know about that, it's interesting. :)

Vea mi olori wrote:
Gladhaniel wrote:Virtue: Órë means "heart, inner mind," the "nearest equivalent of 'heart' in our application to feelings, or emotions (courage, fear, hope, pity, etc.)" Maybe we could combine it with manë "morally good" to create manë órë "morally good heart, inner mind."

I'd personally usefairëovermanë

Here, do you mean fairë with the meaning free?
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Postby Vea mi olori » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:39 pm

Gladhaniel wrote:Just out of curiosity, replacing the final a of mína by transformed the verb into a noun? I didn't know about that, it's interesting. :)

In one of the documents I've got, puttingon the end of an adjective (displacing any finala, leaving other endings as they are) forms a specific instance of a noun; the example given isaira(holy) toairë(holiness). For the formation of abstract nouns (like we're dealing with here),instead of replacing withwe replace with-ië. It's an attested ending for several abstract nouns, and there are apparently indications somewhere that show it's to be used as a general "abstraction" word ending.

Gladhaniel wrote:Here, do you mean fairë with the meaning free?

No, my memory was playing up. I meantfaila.
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Postby Gladhaniel » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:51 pm

Very interesting! :) Thank you for these informations. :D

I'm currently thinking about a new idea for a tattoo, and I was just wondering if you could take a look at my sentences and, if necessary, provide suggestions and/or corrections. :)

"a treasure illuminating my heart"
mírë cályala endanya

"a treasure that/which illuminates my heart"
mírë ya calya endanya
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Postby ryurage » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:04 pm

Time for my first post :)
Can anyone provide a translation for 'field of council'?

Thank you!
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Postby Gladhaniel » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:22 pm

ryurage wrote:Time for my first post :)
Can anyone provide a translation for 'field of council'?

Thank you!

For "field," do you wish a physical/concrete meaning (as in "a field of battle"), or rather an abstract area of knowledge? :)
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Postby ryurage » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:41 pm

Gladhaniel wrote:
ryurage wrote:Time for my first post :)
Can anyone provide a translation for 'field of council'?

Thank you!

For "field," do you wish a physical/concrete meaning (as in "a field of battle"), or rather an abstract area of knowledge? :)


Gladhaniel, thanks for asking- precisely- like 'field of battle' in the concrete sense.
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Postby Vea mi olori » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:08 am

Gladhaniel

I think it’s mostly a matter of choice, there don’t seem to be any problems that I can see.

Harma/ mírë calyëa órenya
A [treasure/treasured thing] illuminating my heart

Harma is “treasured thing” without the “jewel” connotations ofmírë. I guess either could be used, depending on how you wanted it phrased.

órë is given as “nearest equivalent of 'heart' in our application to feelings, or emotions (courage, fear, hope, pity, etc.)”, so I used that rather than enda, although it does also seem to be used figuratively in that way. I guess the choice is yours

The second one has the same choices to be made, but apart from that is fine

As for an idiomatic Quenya alternative…

Harma/mírë; i coacalinanya – a treasure/treasured thing; the light of my house

Coacalina means “light of the house” used as “a metaphor for the soul [ fea] dwelling inside the body [ hroa]”. I love the construction ofcoacalinaand wanted to use it somewhere… your choice as ever, though.

ryurage

Two possible words here, depending on the kind of field:

Flat field, plain –palar
Sown field – resta

I'd personally go with palar.

"Council" seems a litle tricky...combëis "gathering, assembly", so if we take that as the best answer we have palar combëoas "field of council". I could try and get some better fit words for "council" if you like.
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Postby Gladhaniel » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:47 am

Thanks a lot for these ideas! :)

I really like coacalina; I think I might definitely consider [Harma/mírë] [ya calya/cályala] coacalinanya over the use of órë or enda. I guess my choice will also depend on how the final Tengwar transcription looks! :)

As for ryurage's request, I personally find palar combëo very good. :D However, I must admit that I hesitate concerning the case to use in order to render "of" as good as possible in this context. While the genitive does seem to express "a field about/concerning council," which should be good for our phrase, I think the possessive might be good as well since it expresses "attributes/properties as being permanent," "material (made, composed of)" and "an abstract" - in which case the phrase would become palar combeva.
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Postby Daefaroth » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:34 pm

This thread is now well over the 2000 post limit.

The previous thread starter, NiennaSorrowing has not visited since 2005.

Gladhaniel or Via Mi Olori - would one of you be willing to start a new Official Quenya Translation thread?

Please make the title the same with a "II" appended to the end.

I will lock up this thread once the new one is open for business.

Thank you.
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Postby Isildilmë » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:36 am

That's strange, Daefaroth, I told that to Gladhaniel lastly and gave her your email address so she can ask you if she should start a new thread. She told me she wrote you some days ago, but had no answer... maybe she felt in your junkmail ? Nevertheless, I think she prepared something for the introduction of the new thread, so if Vea sees no inconvenient, she may go ahead, instead of getting the work done twice :D.
Concerning the Official Tengwar Transcription Thread - VI
To all the newbees, Welcome to TORC !
Before posting anything on this thread, READ THE INTRODUCTION. For now, I didn't have the time to update the intro, so I let you read the intro of thread #IV here.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask in the threads or by email (isildilme@hotmail.com - write "Tengwar" somewhere in the subject in case you fall in my junkmail, because if I don't know, I wont open the message !). Note that I don't accept transcription requests by email, you have to post them here !

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Postby Gladhaniel » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:26 am

Isildilmë, Daefaroth read and answered my email, and I think that's why he now wrote something here. :) I think I just hadn't said in my email that I had already done an opening message for the new thread. ;) It's mostly something I did out of excitement and excess of motivation ahah, even if I knew my introduction post might prove to be useless. :D

I'm going to write an email to Vea now to make sure we coordinate our efforts. :)
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Postby Isildilmë » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:47 am

Gladhaniel wrote:Isildilmë, Daefaroth read and answered my email, and I think that's why he now wrote something here. :)

Isildilmë, you should remind to mind your buisiness :D
Gladhaniel wrote:It's mostly something I did out of excitement and excess of motivation ahah

I think I know what you're talking about :wink:(any glance at my intro to the Tengwar thread #4 will proove that ! :whistle: )
Gladhaniel wrote:even if I knew my introduction post might prove to be useless. :D

the joys of living in a world where even the people who can read often don't mind taking the time to apply this wonderful knowledge and read before asking about a subject !

I promise to read you, if that helps :thppt:
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To all the newbees, Welcome to TORC !
Before posting anything on this thread, READ THE INTRODUCTION. For now, I didn't have the time to update the intro, so I let you read the intro of thread #IV here.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask in the threads or by email (isildilme@hotmail.com - write "Tengwar" somewhere in the subject in case you fall in my junkmail, because if I don't know, I wont open the message !). Note that I don't accept transcription requests by email, you have to post them here !

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Postby Gladhaniel » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:25 pm

Isildilmë wrote:
Gladhaniel wrote:Isildilmë, Daefaroth read and answered my email, and I think that's why he now wrote something here. :)

Isildilmë, you should remind to mind your buisiness :D

Of course not! I find it amazing that we're always discussing, and that you try to help me like that. :D You couldn't know that I had gotten an answer to my email! ;)
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Postby Litraya » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:25 pm

Hi! This is my first post. I was wondering if I could get a Quenya translation of a phrase.

"As supple as the wind"

I'm sure 'supple' could be difficult, probably impossible, but I had to try. :)
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Postby Vea mi olori » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:48 am

Litraya,
It wasn't too difficult actually, once the wording was changed slightly:

As agile as the wind
Sívë tyelca i súrë

Tyelcaalso has connotations of "swift" as well as "agile", so it fits the meaning of your phrase quite well. Given that we're folding up this thread soon, check the next Quenya Translation Thread to see any comments Gladhaniel has about it.

Daefaroth,

Gladhaniel has a draft of the new threat that's ready to go live once this thread is closed. Could you close this one off and if possible I'll link it in this post when it's done. If that's not possible, I'll repost when Gladhaniel's started the new thread (there's a lot of snazzy formatting in the works).

In the meantime could any new translations get emailed to ninja.jellyfish@gmail.com.

Thanks!
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